JackBizzle:



Do you not see the logical paradox you created.

Electrons make up everything in the universe.....therefore....
Electrons rule the universe
Electrons = God


But then.


If God is everything, then is it truly a god?
Because if we introduce a similar quantity of anti-matter, God is finished
If God is everything, then what makes god a god? God is not special if he or she is in everyone. Just a mundane aspect of life like dna.

I think you should construe his pantheistic beliefs as everything that exists is special because god is everything .

KingEbukasBlog:


I think you should construe his pantheistic beliefs as everything that exists is special because god is everything .

But then....why call it God?

If I say that a stone is God, then it makes god an unnecessary descriptor for a stone.

Similarly, if I say that everything is God, then it makes god an unnecessary descriptor for everything.

JackBizzle:



Do you not see the logical paradox you created.

Electrons make up everything in the universe.....therefore....
Electrons rule the universe
Electrons = God


But then.


If God is everything, then is it truly a god?
Because if we introduce a similar quantity of anti-matter, God is finished
If God is everything, then what makes god a g od? God is not special if he or she is in everyone. Just a mundane aspect of life like dna.

Exactly my point.
If god is everything and everything is god, then the belief in a god, and the obsession with it, makes Zero sense.

This is the pantheistic Worldview in a nutshell.

plaetton:


Exactly my point.
If god is everything and everything is god, then the belief in a god, and the obsession with it, makes Zero sense.

This is the pantheistic Worldview in a nutshell.

Pantheists believe in spirits , reincarnation etc . Do you have those beliefs ?

JackBizzle:



But then....why call it God?

If I say that a stone is God, then it makes god an unnecessary descriptor for a stone.

Similarly, if I say that everything is God, then it makes god an unnecessary descriptor for everything.

This here makes more sense though

Sarassin:

It is not the case that Pantheists deify the physical structures of the cosmos i.e, the Galaxies, planets and their satellites, No. Think of the Pantheist concept of Divinity more as a moving spirit or awareness that permeates the universe, is sentient, and represents the sum total of all that has been before, all that is, and all that will be.

KingEbukasBlog:


Pantheists believe in spirits , reincarnation etc . Do you have those beliefs ?

Pantheism is neither a religious nor philosophical movement.
It is just a worldview.
Therefore, within the broad worldviews, each person's particular view are tempered by his or her own culture, environment, education and life experiences.

For example, Nigerian pantheist is more likely to believe in spirits and reincarnation than a European pantheist.

It doesn't change the general thrust of the pantheistic Worldview.

plaetton:


Exactly my point.
If god is everything and everything is god, then the belief in a god, and the obsession with it, makes Zero sense.

This is the pantheistic Worldview in a nutshell.

I like

plaetton:


Pantheism is neither a religious nor philosophical movement.
It is just a worldview.
Therefore, within the broad worldviews, each person's particular view are tempered by his or her own culture, environment, education and life experiences.

For example, Nigerian pantheist is more likely to believe in spirits and reincarnation than a European pantheist.

It doesn't change the general thrust of the pantheistic Worldview.

I fully understand sir . Though I disagree with the emboldened text , the Europeans quickly embrace the idea of reincarnation , even faster than the average Nigerian .

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-3375722/The-children-swear-ve-lived-previous-life-details-astonishing-hard-dismiss-make-believe.html

You can read the comments .

So do you have those beliefs as a Nigerian pantheist ?

KingEbukasBlog:


I fully understand sir . Though I disagree with the emboldened text , the Europeans quickly embrace the idea of reincarnation , even faster than the average Nigerian .





So do you have those beliefs as a Nigerian pantheist ?

I don't believe in spirits in the same way majority of the people do.

I do believe in inter-dimensional entities, that, from time , are accidentally thrust into, or deliberately summoned into our reality.

plaetton:

I don't believe in spirits in the same way majority of the people do.

I do believe in inter-dimensional entities, that, from time , are accidentally thrust into, or deliberately summoned into our reality.

Do you have any experience of this or is it just relegated to "belief"?

hahn:


Do you have any experience of this or is it just relegated to "belief"?

Hhhmm.

I am taking the fifth amendment on that question.

plaetton:


Hhhmm.

I am taking the fifth amendment on that question.

You better

My Client may go demented if I talk further.

KingEbukasBlog:


Very good points you made , more questions will be drawn from the statements you made . So "

1. Is there an end to reincarnation ?

Thank you. Yes There is an end to “Samsara” the wanderings of the “soul” or reincarnation as it is more generally known, it is what humankind aspires to. According to Vedic literature an end to reincarnation occurs when one has dispensed with “Kharmic” baggage.

2. Have you have an anamnesis - memory of past lives ?

No, I have no memory of my past lives, in my view such memories could prove an obstacle in the present life. Ironically though I do find myself from time to time witnessing certain past events shrouded in history which I record and spend inordinate amounts of time researching. You would be surprised how recorded historical events differ materially from actuality…but I digress.

3. How do you harmonize your pantheistic beliefs on reincarnation with scientific theories like evolution ? Are you saying there was a concurrent physical (evolution ) and spiritual transformation (reincarnation ) from the incipient level of consciousness in man ? Or did reincarnation begin at a particular stage in evolution of man ?

It is not a given that Pantheism is at odds with say, the theory of evolution. In any event I don’t seek to harmonize my beliefs with scientific theories, science tries to answer the “why?” and “how?” but Tantra “shows you”.

To answer your astute questions, I would say that from the time of the beginning of the universe, consciousness, awareness and sentience has existed, this to my mind is the real meaning of the Christian scripture, “in the beginning was the word…..” but it turns out that our anthropological construct is a very late newcomer to the Divine arrangements of the universe and it is only our arrogance that makes us think it is special. I think also that our obsession with the evolutionary development of our physiognomy is rather misplaced for surely we can see that the answers lie in unlocking the secrets of the mind.

Our awareness is transient, a person does not even become nominally aware until a particular age range and certain physiological aspects become fully grown and then the life force-the ability to connect with the universe becomes apparent. I see it that our bodies are incidental and that whether we are descended from the great apes, moulded by Yahweh or delivered in batches from planet Zorg, our awareness, or souls if you like remains an integral part of the universal Divine plan.

Sarassin:
No, I have no memory of my past lives, in my view such memories could prove an obstacle in the present life. Ironically though I do find myself from time to time witnessing certain past events shrouded in history which I record and spend inordinate amounts of time researching. You would be surprised how recorded historical events differ materially from actuality…but I digress.

The question of Kingebukasblog was not addressed to me. If I may however air my views I hope it is welcomed.

I sure think it is harmful to anyone to have precise and detailed knowledge of their past lives, before reaching a certain level of inner development. However I know of 2 "Masters" in the island of Cyprus who could accurately remember all their past lives, back to their first incarnation. There is also this research carried out by Dr Ian Stevenson where he published evidences of 2500 children who could extraordinarly recall with great accuracy past lives and events which they could never had known about.

I for one began , in the course of my meditation practice, to have souvenirs of previous lives in the form of Flashes, visions. I would see things that happened to me and who I was in former lives. It helped me realize that my present personality is largely due to experiences of the past and facilitated the internal healing process.

Greetings.

Sarassin:


Thank you. Yes There is an end to “Samsara” the wanderings of the “soul” or reincarnation as it is more generally known, it is what humankind aspires to. According to Vedic literature an end to reincarnation occurs when one has dispensed with “Kharmic” baggage.

Elaborate please .

Also , do you think many have witnessed an end to reincarnation ?

No, I have no memory of my past lives, in my view such memories could prove an obstacle in the present life. Ironically though I do find myself from time to time witnessing certain past events shrouded in history which I record and spend inordinate amounts of time researching. You would be surprised how recorded historical events differ materially from actuality…but I digress.

Alright then . What about the reincarnation to animal or plant life , do you hold such beliefs ? Do your actions in your previous incarnations have any effect of any sort in your new incarnation ?

@Emboldened text ,

I dont actually agree . Past experiences make one a better person - help make better decisions , mistakes are avoided , a new incarnation can be a new adventure etc .

To answer your astute questions, I would say that from the time of the beginning of the universe, consciousness, awareness and sentience has existed, this to my mind is the real meaning of the Christian scripture, “in the beginning was the word…..” but it turns out that our anthropological construct is a very late newcomer to the Divine arrangements of the universe and it is only our arrogance that makes us think it is special. I think also that our obsession with the evolutionary development of our physiognomy is rather misplaced for surely we can see that the answers lie in unlocking the secrets of the mind.

You are fixated on the beginning of the universe , what about the end of the universe ? Does the divinity that permeates the universe preclude it from having an end ? How do you think the universe will obviate this foreseeable end ? Oh wait , will the universe "reincarnate" when it expends its energy ?

LoJ:

The question of Kingebukasblog was not addressed to me. If I may however air my views I hope it is welcomed.

I sure think it is harmful to anyone to have precise and detailed knowledge of their past lives, before reaching a certain level of inner development. However I know of 2 "Masters" in the island of Cyprus who could accurately remember all their past lives, back to their first incarnation. There is also this research carried out by Dr Ian Stevenson where he published evidences of 2500 children who could extraordinarly recall with great accuracy past lives and events which they could never had known about.

I for one began , in the course of my meditation practice, to have souvenirs of previous lives in the form of Flashes, visions. I would see things that happened to me and who I was in former lives. It helped me realize that my present personality is largely due to experiences of the past and facilitated the internal healing process.

Greetings.

This is a welcome comment, yes there are those who exercise full recollection of past lives. I like to call them Masters of the Universe. I think also that most people will have glimpses of their past lives particularly when they are about to commit a horrendous error but usually are unaware, the mind is tuned out.

Also there is past life regression therapy that deals with psychological issues that pertain to psychological and mental blockages that may be deemed as hinderances in the present life. But there is a lot more.

@ Sarassin , whenever you are ready . Please I want you to address Pandeism - a conflation of ideas from deism and pantheism .

KingEbukasBlog:


Elaborate please .

Also , do you think many have witnessed an end to reincarnation ?

It is difficult to elaborate without going into the arcana of Tantra which is beyond the scope of our discussion here.

Yes, without any doubts there are very many souls who have achieved the ultimate state of release from the repeating cycle of birth, life and death. It is be experienced.

Alright then . What about the reincarnation to animal or plant life , do you hold such beliefs ? Do your actions in your previous incarnations have any effect of any sort in your new incarnation ?

No, a human soul or consciousness will simply never reincarnate in the life form of a sub-specie, be it plant or animal.

To deal with the second part of your question, I will answer a little more fully. The Divine order is nothing if not impeccable. The Divine does not carry a moral code of good, bad or evil, the Power of the Divine exists for good, bad or indifferent, but the subjectivity is a human construct. Therefore, I will tell you a universal truth, the Kharmic baggage our soul’s carry are for transgressions “against ourselves” not transgressions against others, they are transgressions of when one is untrue to one’s own self! and the price human souls pay is eternal wanderings until we achieve a state of Nirvana. In Hindu philosophy it is the realization of the identity and the union of Atman with Brahma. It was Shakespeare who wrote the words "to thine own self be true" Therefore our actions in a previous lifetime are of utmost importance.

I dont actually agree . Past experiences make one a better person - help make better decisions , mistakes are avoided , a new incarnation can be a new adventure etc .

past-life experiences, not necessarily so, but I take your point.

You are fixated on the beginning of the universe , what about the end of the universe ? Does the divinity that permeates the universe preclude it from having an end ? How do you think the universe will obviate this foreseeable end ? Oh wait , will the universe "reincarnate" when it expends its energy ?

Stars consume themselves, as do galaxies. We say that the Divine is "of" the universe therefore it cannot preclude the end of the universe, what will become of the universe? it is conjecture at this stage and really, anyone's guess.

Sarassin:
To deal with the second part of your question, I will answer a little more fully. The Divine order is nothing if not impeccable. The Divine does not carry a moral code of good, bad or evil, the Power of the Divine exists for good, bad or indifferent, but the subjectivity is a human construct. Therefore, I will tell you a universal truth, the Kharmic baggage our soul’s carry are for transgressions “against ourselves” not transgressions against others, they are transgressions of when one is untrue to one’s own self! and the price human souls pay is eternal wanderings until we achieve a state of Nirvana. In Hindu philosophy it is the realization of the identity and the union of Atman with Brahma. It was Shakespeare who wrote the words "to thine own self be true" Therefore our actions in a previous lifetime are of utmost importance.

Would you care to elaborate?

What do you mean exactly by transgression against one's own self? do you mean any deviation from the desired Personality as projected by the "higher" or permanent Self? Or do you mean deviation from the beliefs of self?

LoJ:

Would you care to elaborate?

What do you mean exactly by transgression against one's own self? do you mean any deviation from the desired Personality as projected by the "higher" or permanent Self? Or do you mean deviation from the beliefs of self?

Yes, It is the former, transgressions against the greater self, in effect a deviation from the hitherto stated Divine aim. Any actions we take that deflect us from the path of our Divine aims are a transgression against our greater self.

Here is a very simplistic illustration; so, perhaps a sentient being had decided to learn about the human condition of humility and in order to do so, this being incarnates as say, a lowly street beggar and at first, it goes about its business with deep humility, but then the utter misery of its existence begins to tell and this being turns to say armed robbery to alleviate its condition then it has deviated from its Divine aim, it is destined to return to this plane to complete its experience. This is just one aspect of a transgression against the greater self-there are others.

In the great scheme of things you will find that many have given up, long disconnected from the Divine and merely going through the motions of life they cannot move forwards because they are stuck in the Kharmic rut of a lack of progression.

What is more? Prior knowledge of a past life or Divine aim is therefore an obstacle, one cannot achieve the Divine aim in its purest form, why ? because one is then seeking it.

Sarassin:
Yes, It is the former,

Vielen Dank, I have learned much. Ermmm one more question, if you would agree: Who are the Masters of the universe you alluded previously to?

LoJ:

Vielen Dank, I have learned much. Ermmm one more question, if you would agree: Who are the Masters of the universe you alluded previously to?

Bitte schön

@ Sarrassin

Good responses so far . And I want you address :

1. The first incarnation of a human spirit , its first existence as a living human being . I want you to elaborate on the first incarnation and the purity of the human spirit , before its “Samsara” begins . Does the universe birth the soul before its first incarnation?

2. As a pantheist , address the journey of the soul during its “Samsara” . Like what determines how long before the next incarnation takes place etc .

3. Do your beliefs extend to extra-terrestrial beings ? Do the same life-death-life cycle of humans apply to extra-terrestrial beings ?

KingEbukasBlog:
@ Sarrassin

Good responses so far . And I want you address :

1. The first incarnation of a human spirit , its first existence as a living human being . I want you to elaborate on the first incarnation and the purity of the human spirit , before its “Samsara” begins . Does the universe birth the soul before its first incarnation?

Good questions;

I will start by stating that the co-joining of souls with a physical form was a mere probability from the beginning, we are an exercise in free will. All souls were created by the Divine in the very beginning. No other souls have been created since then. Meaning that all souls in existence, pre-existed birth.

The Divine desired self-expression and therefore, projected souls.

All sentience is a part of the Divine and an expression of Divine thought. The Divine spirit is the force that propels and perpetuates these thoughts.

All things, including the souls of individuals are mere "fractals" of the Divine revealing simply how self-similar the universe is on every scale.

It follows that the pattern used to create a soul is the pattern of the Divine Spirit. The spirit is life. From the spirit, the mind builds patterns. From the mind, the physical creation is the result. The spirit, the mind, and individuality, became the pattern for souls. The spirit of the individual existed before the soul of the individual was created. The spirit keeps the knowledge of its identity with the Divine. The soul experiences the activities of the mind in a manner separate from God. We incarnate with a general plan for the life to be experienced but it not given that our first incarnations are on planet earth.

2. As a pantheist , address the journey of the soul during its “Samsara” . Like what determines how long before the next incarnation takes place etc .

For perspective, I wrote that the human spirit bears a knowledge of its identity with God, and the soul bears a knowledge of everything that it experiences.

Individual souls seek to experience creation, our “wanderings” are unlimited in scope and duration. The journey of our souls represents a series of incarnations with periods in between of dwelling in other dimensions of consciousness, timings are beyond our control and rest solely on the expression of Divine will. In the purest form the cycle is completed when the desire of the will of the soul is no longer different from the will of the Divine. The consciousness of the soul then merges with the spiritual consciousness of its Divine identity. The return of the soul is the return of the image to whom imagined it.

3. Do your beliefs extend to extra-terrestrial beings ? Do the same life-death-life cycle of humans apply to extra-terrestrial beings

Yes indeed, but not to the extent of Hollywood inspired versions of green eyed critters hovering on flying saucers. Here on earth we are every day home to other-worldly beings substantiating their own existences. Yes the same rules apply, universally.

Sarassin:


Good questions;

I will start by stating that the co-joining of souls with a physical form was a mere probability from the beginning, we are an exercise in free will. All souls were created by the Divine in the very beginning. No other souls have been created since then. Meaning that all souls in existence, pre-existed birth.

The Divine desired self-expression and therefore, projected souls.

All sentience is a part of the Divine and an expression of Divine thought. The Divine spirit is the force that propels and perpetuates these thoughts.

All things, including the souls of individuals are mere "fractals" of the Divine revealing simply how self-similar the universe is on every scale.

It follows that the pattern used to create a soul is the pattern of the Divine Spirit. The spirit is life. From the spirit, the mind builds patterns. From the mind, the physical creation is the result. The spirit, the mind, and individuality, became the pattern for souls. The spirit of the individual existed before the soul of the individual was created. The spirit keeps the knowledge of its identity with the Divine. The soul experiences the activities of the mind in a manner separate from God. We incarnate with a general plan for the life to be experienced but it not given that our first incarnations are on planet earth.

Good response . But does this mean that life on earth is predestined ? And is everyone predestined to have particular experiences in life ? Is there a possibility for a "past-life experiences loop" to occur - experiences in one incarnation repeating themselves continuously in subsequent incarnations .

As a pantheist , is the divine fallible ? If it is , how does it correct its mistakes ?

And thirdly , I want you to address telekinesis - the interaction with physical bodies without physical contact . I'm fascinated by the concept and as a pantheist , is it possible ? And if so , how does one gain such ability - to control physical bodies through the power of the mind ?

KingEbukasBlog:


Good response . But does this mean that life on earth is predestined ? And is everyone predestined to have particular experiences in life ? Is there a possibility for a "past-life experiences loop" to occur - experiences in one incarnation repeating themselves continuously in subsequent incarnations .

Yes and No, there is a degree of predestination in general terms with respect to one’s purpose in life but not in specific terms as to how we go about achieving our purpose in life, that remains a function of free will. Further, we can, and do alter our destiny. Our experiences are a pathway to our greater realizations, profound experiences bring us closer to the Divine.

Lessons are to be learned, experiences are to be gained, sentient beings do find themselves being looped into repeating experiences from a previous incarnation. Particularly Suicides.

As a pantheist , is the divine fallible ? If it is , how does it correct its mistakes ?

An existential question, fallibility is a very human trait. As a Pantheist I believe that human traits in themselves cannot be impressed on the Divine spirit, although, the Divine spirit can emanate a human spirit in order to experience a human trait.

The only traits that humanity can share with the Divine Spirit in my limited understanding are “unconditional love” and “impeccability”, humans do neither. Therefore to answer your question a priori there is no possibility that the Divine is fallible.

I want you to address telekinesis - the interaction with physical bodies without physical contact . I'm fascinated by the concept and as a pantheist , is it possible ? And if so , how does one gain such ability - to control physical bodies through the power of the mind ?

Telekinesis is indeed a fascinating subject, I can’t say it is a generally acceptable phenomenon in the worldview of all pantheists but Telekinesis is entirely possible, it is the ability of the mind to influence matter, time and space. Telekinetic ability is difficult to master, it is a matter of practice, practice, and practice as well as intense focus, the kind of focus and concentration that is required in meditative practice.

Back in the day they used to have these tiny little sensitive magnetic compasses, I don’t know if they exist anymore, I had great fun making the dials spin around in a frenzy during practice. Perhaps you may find them at specialist shops they are a good safe item to start practicing with. It is a bit difficult for me to place direct iterative steps on a public forum.

Sarassin:


Yes and No, there is a degree of predestination in general terms with respect to one’s purpose in life but not in specific terms as to how we go about achieving our purpose in life, that remains a function of free will. Further, we can, and do alter our destiny. Our experiences are a pathway to our greater realizations, profound experiences bring us closer to the Divine.

Lessons are to be learned, experiences are to be gained, sentient beings do find themselves being looped into repeating experiences from a previous incarnation. Particularly Suicides.

An existential question, fallibility is a very human trait. As a Pantheist I believe that human traits in themselves cannot be impressed on the Divine spirit, although, the Divine spirit can emanate a human spirit in order to experience a human trait.

The only traits that humanity can share with the Divine Spirit in my limited understanding are “unconditional love” and “impeccability”, humans do neither. Therefore to answer your question a priori there is no possibility that the Divine is fallible.

Telekinesis is indeed a fascinating subject, I can’t say it is a generally acceptable phenomenon in the worldview of all pantheists but Telekinesis is entirely possible, it is the ability of the mind to influence matter, time and space. Telekinetic ability is difficult to master, it is a matter of practice, practice, and practice as well as intense focus, the kind of focus and concentration that is required in meditative practice.

Back in the day they used to have these tiny little sensitive magnetic compasses, I don’t know if they exist anymore, I had great fun making the dials spin around in a frenzy during practice. Perhaps you may find them at specialist shops they are a good safe item to start practicing with. It is a bit difficult for me to place direct iterative steps on a public forum.

1. As a pantheist , can you explain the nature of good and evil ? What is good ? And what is evil ?

2. Is your god (the universe) a personal god ? Remember you believe the universe is sentient , conscious etc , so does it intervene in the affairs of , make divine revelations to or communicate with fellow sentient and conscious beings like humans ? And if it does , how does it do those and if does not , why ?

3. I really want to know your opinion on Pandeism - a conflation of deism and pantheism . It surmises that God ceased existing as a separate conscious eternal being and started existing as the universe . Pandeism is interesting because it circumvents the uncertainty of the cause of the universe - the beginning of the universe would now be seen as the starting point of God's transformation into a material universe . And its divinity or divine presence now permeates the universe . And those thoughts , sentience , consciousness which It once possessed or bore are now kind of bequeathed to the universe . I think many problems faced by pantheism look solved with pandeism . Cool right ? What do you think??

4kings:

I get u, but i don't think they accept that belief, considering the universe to them is an inseparable part of a God.
So those processes are revered by them.

Not an inseparable part .

It is seen as god

urahara:


Not an inseparable part .

It is seen as god

Oops, maybe i was conflicting it with panentheism.

Can you explain this God? Are you and the cockroach i'm trying to kill all part of a singular God state?

4kings:

Oops, maybe i was conflicting it with panentheism.

Can you explain this God? Are you and the cockroach i'm trying to kill all part of a singular God state?

Yes you were confusing It with panentheism.

Yes humans , cockroaches are part of the god state.


According to pantheism , the universe has many features of anthromorphic gods such as power , awe , beauty and mystery.the universe is worthy of reverence ( not worship , but admiration ).

The universe has no mind.

It is not vengeful.

It does not demand worship , etc.