noetic15:

true indeed.

its a case that God has been substituted in your limited understanding for environment. Its amazing that many of us can still distinguish between the hands/work of God and the ontology of an environment. it would be fun to know how the environment kick started life and what EXACTLY preceded the environment. I await your answers in deep breadth.

Is the environment the handi work of your god because he told you that himself or do you accept it because you have been indoctrinated and conditioned to believe it?. . . .When I look around all I see is the environment, I do not see any god. . . .remember that your god was once all over the place fighting along side men and staining his cloth with the blood of his enemies for all to see, appearing to some of them(face to face and back parts), addressing them through public speech as recorded in his book by men. . . why did he suddenly run way? As to what kick started life I have always told you that I don't know. . . .All I KNOW is that all the god of man made religions did NOT do it. . . their accounts of how they did it is there written in their "holy" books are there for all to read. . . . .

I have asked u to show any reason why life as we see it today does not require an intelligent being to exist.

I have never said that life does not require an intelligent being to exist. . . . .what I have always stated is that there is no evidence for any. . . by the way why does life require just one intelligent being? Why not so many intelligent beings? The ancient god inventors used to believe that there were many gods. . . .even the ancient jews also used to believe in the concept of many gods. . . .there is no evidence for any god and their is no evidence to show that there is any intelligent being flying in the sky. . .I have always maintained that the universe as it is makes all the gods of man made religion look insignificant. . .the very great vastness of the universe, and our ( humans ) relative insignificance in it says that it was not created for us as all man made religions will like to have us believe. . . .colliding stars, comets destroying each other, the expansion of the universe etc. . . .Personally I believe that these are just mindless forces acting on their own. . . .I will not just ascribe it to a deity because I believe it sounds convient

please permit my sarcasm. . . but the above is gullible.
what other scientific evidence do u require? is reproduction or the photosynthetic "tools" (including the sun and rainfall) not verifiable?

Have you now reduced the evidence for your god to rainfall and sunshine? Is photo synthesis now the evidence for your god? What is this? The sun is evidence for the sun and not for your god, scientist have studied the sun in great details and they did not see the name of your god written in any part of it. . . . . ditto for rain and photosynthesis. . . .

1. what happened to God's liberty to do things as He pleases. The last time I checked, u were not compelled to post on this forum, u did so at your own liberty.
So if God inspires men to write words of wisdom and salvation and also inspires men to teach such words, . . . why do u have a problem with the liberty of God?

Point number one. . . .You fail to admit (something that can not be denied) that it is people who made those biblical statements with regards to wisdom and "salvation". . . It is people who are making claims that they are speaking for god or were inspired by god to speak or write on his behalf. . . No god has ever appeared to you and told you that he inspired any body to write anything on his behalf. . . . .all you have are people writing down their thoughts, fantasies, ideas. wishes and aspirations and ascribing it to their god. . . . Point number two. . . . You would like us to have faith in the claims of a very few people (people who started the religion you now sunscribe to), and completely reject the claims of many other people who have made different claims about speaking for different gods. . . .I do not have any problem with any god's liberty. . . I have problem with people always speaking for various god when no god has ever spoken for his/her self. . . . .That action alone says that all the gods are just not there. . . .

2. almost on every thread u sing about how God should not be this or that. . , . . your position reflects your individual and personalised definition of God. unfortunately your understanding of God has been rebuffed severally to be untenable. . . . . yet u keep . . . . .

Almost on everythread you always sing to us why your god should be this or that. . . . Your own position reflects your personal defination of who you will like your god to be. . . .You reject outrageous claims by some in order to accept the outrageous claims of others and you protect your decision with a willingness to rationalize even to the point of contradiction (which you don't even notice). . . . . You have no business going around acting as though you have any truth and insight to offer. What you have to offer is your personal mind game and opinion you've created or have been created for you in order to make believe the world is the way you want it to be no more no less. . .

mazaje:

Where is your evidence for this? There is NO basis to believe that the creation myth you subscrıbe to is true either. . . .

Even during goat herder days they all knew that reproduction was what was responsible for how people came about no? Everybody knows that life had to begin at a certian point no?


Where is your scientific evidence to disprove the TOE and show that species did not evolve? I am not saying that species evolved all I am is why should people accept your baseless hypothesis?

is evolution a science on its own? whats the relationship between evolution and science?
if and when the fallacy of ur analyses is exposed. . . .u will scream that u aint an evolutionist. . .so why ask questions u cannot answer?

This is just a very silly creationist starw man. . . . . .

really? so why did ur grand father and his ancestora die and not evolve?

ACTUALLY the current scientific knowledge we posses had shown that the creation myth in genesis is a lie and can not be reconciled with science that is why some of your own people are throwing it away and refering to it as an allegory. . . .All what science has verified points to EVOLUTION not to the myth written down in the book of genesis. . . . .so farming is now an evidence for intelligent design eh? I laugh in greek. . . . . .The writers of the genesis account do not know what phtosynthesis means. . . they had their god creating plants before creating the sun and the stars . . . .In some parts of the bible they said their god created the world from water. . . .modern scıence does NOT agree with this. . . . stop telling lies science DOES not support or verify any part of the creation myth you subscribe to. . . .

do u read the bible upside down or what?

There was water in a formless earth and it was from this "moment" that things were re-created, . . .so where did u get ur analogy of God creating from water?
have u started going to the joint with abuzola?

Yes. . . The writers of genesis do not know the meaning of photosyntesis. . . but the order of things in the garden of eden is buttressed by our modern knowledge of photosynthesis. This was what I stated in my last post. . .so whats the difference?

The FACT that all the evıdence you have to point to your god are ONLY stories written by men according to their world view says he just is not there. . . . .Just a question for you how does your god look like? You should be able to answer this question sınce you ınsist that your god exist. . . .How does your god look like and what type of cloth does he wear since your bible says that he used to stain his cloth with the blood of those that worship other gods. . . .

This is irrelevant. but if u are so keen. . .sait till u die, unfortunately u might not be able to see Him, unless u repent

The FACT is that genesis 1 and 2 were NOT written by the same person. . . .

Go to www.answersingenesis.com and pose your question there

Mazaje, I was not talking about the writers or the sequence of writing. . . I was refering to the events in the first two verses of the bible.
what do u make of them?. . .did they occur one after the other?

mazaje:

Is the environment the handi work of your god because he told you that himself or do you accept it because you have been indoctrinated and conditioned to believe it?. . . .When I look around all I see is the environment, I do not see any god. . . .remember that your god was once all over the place fighting along side men and staining his cloth with the blood of his enemies for all to see, appearing to some of them(face to face and back parts), addressing them through public speech as recorded in his book by men. . . why did he suddenly run way? As to what kick started life I have always told you that I don't know. . . .All I KNOW is that all the god of man made religions did NOT do it. . . their accounts of how they did it is there written in their "holy" books are there for all to read. . . . .

I love this new turn in this debate. . .but before we move on. .can we agree on a definition for the environment. whats ur definition?

I have never said that life does not require an intelligent being to exist. . . . .what I have always stated is that there is no evidence for any. . . by the way why does life require just one intelligent being? Why not so many intelligent beings? The ancient god inventors used to believe that there were many gods. . . .even the ancient jews also used to believe in the concept of many gods. . . .there is no evidence for any god and their is no evidence to show that there is any intelligent being flying in the sky. . .I have always maintained that the universe as it is makes all the gods of man made religion look insignificant. . .the very great vastness of the universe, and our ( humans ) relative insignificance in it says that it was not created for us as all man made religions will like to have us believe. . . .colliding stars, comets destroying each other, the expansion of the universe etc. . . .Personally I believe that these are just mindless forces acting on their own. . . .I will not just ascribe it to a deity because I believe it sounds convient

there is a huge difference between lack of evidence and acceptance of evidence. Evidence abounds. . all u have done is to refuse to acknowledge these evidences cos they do not appeal to ur dogma and beliefs. just like u dont want to acknowledge that the brain can not be the sole originator of dreams with verifiable accuracy.
drop ur dogmas and access the evidences that support the existence of God.

Have you now reduced the evidence for your god to rainfall and sunshine? Is photo synthesis now the evidence for your god? What is this? The sun is evidence for the sun and not for your god, scientist have studied the sun in great details and they did not see the name of your god written in any part of it. . . . . ditto for rain and photosynthesis. . . .

was I wrong in expecting that u make sense of simple facts of life?

Point number one. . . .You fail to admit (something that can not be denied) that it is people who made those biblical statements with regards to wisdom and "salvation". . . It is people who are making claims that they are speaking for god or were inspired by god to speak or write on his behalf. . . No god has ever appeared to you and told you that he inspired any body to write anything on his behalf. . . . .all you have are people writing down their thoughts, fantasies, ideas. wishes and aspirations and ascribing it to their god. . . . Point number two. . . . You would like us to have faith in the claims of a very few people (people who started the religion you now sunscribe to), and completely reject the claims of many other people who have made different claims about speaking for different gods. . . .I do not have any problem with any god's liberty. . . I have problem with people always speaking for various god when no god has ever spoken for his/her self. . . . .That action alone says that all the gods are just not there. . . .

does ay compelling evidence/argument support the above assertions?

Almost on everythread you always sing to us why your god should be this or that. . . . Your own position reflects your personal defination of who you will like your god to be. . . .You reject outrageous claims by some in order to accept the outrageous claims of others and you protect your decision with a willingness to rationalize even to the point of contradiction (which you don't even notice). . . . . You have no business going around acting as though you have any truth and insight to offer. What you have to offer is your personal mind game and opinion you've created or have been created for you in order to make believe the world is the way you want it to be no more no less. . .

blah blah blah . . . I am now used to ur chorus on every thread

I would say atheism considering how broad the philosophy can be.  Atheists can be anything from buddhist to humanists to communists or evolutionists.  Atheism provides more wiggle room and less dogma.

I would wager what Bawomolo really means to say here is that atheism is a confused mixture of folks who are inherently bent on denying the existence of a God. To them it doesnt matter what "dogma" you subscribe to, the end justifies the means.

Atheism doesnt really "provide more wiggle room and less dogma", it simply provides a blanket covering for those who really have no idea why they believe God doesnt exist. It is an outlet for those who wish to live their lives free from the moral demands of a supreme being.

When Bawomolo says atheism has "less dogma" . . . is he aware that the irrational disbelief in the existence of God with NO PROOF is itself a dogma?

noetic15:

I love this new turn in this debate. . .but before we move on. .can we agree on a definition for the environment. whats your definition?

The environment we see around is evidence for the environment not evidence for any god. . . .How does your god look like? The bible says he wears cloths and gets them stained with the blood of the humans he killed with his sword when fighting with them, what type of cloth does he wear and what are his garment made up off. . . .Those are the kind of evidence I will like you to present. . . .Stop pointing to what we see around as evidence for your god because moslems, hindus etc all do that. . . we want you to provide specific evidence for your godl like showing us the sword he uses to kill people and his blood stained cloth. . . . .

there is a huge difference between lack of evidence and acceptance of evidence. Evidence abounds. . all u have done is to refuse to acknowledge these evidences cos they do not appeal to your dogma and beliefs. just like u dont want to acknowledge that the brain can not be the sole originator of dreams with verifiable accuracy.
drop your dogmas and access the evidences that support the existence of God.

What are the evidence, you are yet to show men yahweh's blood stained cloth. . . according to the stories that men have written and aattributed to your god they said he once was showing his body parts to some of them, he was all over them fighting with them, showing his cloth stained with the blood of their enemies for all to see, addressing them through public speech, living with them(place of the lords presence in some of the books of the pentatuech) and inside a wooden box. . . .The bible talks about people seeing or hearing yahweh address them through public speech, why did he suddenly disapper and why did he use to provide evidence for his existence in the pages of ancient text ALONE? text that were written when men thought that the sun revolved around the earth?

was I wrong in expecting that u make sense of simple facts of life?
does ay compelling evidence/argument support the above assertions?

You have no evidence to show that any god inspired any body to write any story on his behalf do you?

[blah blah blah . .  . I am now used to your chorus on every thread 

Just the way I am also used to your own chorus . . . . .