damagepbuh:
Ok

Don’t forget to send a thank you letter

plainbibletruth:
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CIRCUMCISION existed before the Law.
Does that make it an "eternal principle" : a phrase you still need to CLEARLY explain?
Is it the fact that an observance EXISTED before the Law that makes it applicable to the Church?

They are parts of christology of the Old Testament such has been fulfilled in christ

petra1:


They are parts of christology of the Old Testament such has been fulfilled in christ

You know you have not really answered my questions, don't you?

Is it the fact that an observance EXISTED before the Law that makes it applicable to the Church?

How do you determine which "parts of christology of the Old Testament ..... has been fulfilled in Christ"?

plainbibletruth:

You know you have not really answered my questions, don't you?

Is it the fact that an observance EXISTED before the Law that makes it applicable to the Church?

How do you determine which "parts of christology of the Old Testament ..... has been fulfilled in Christ"?

Circumcision is shadow of salvation

petra1:


Circumcision is shadow of salvation

Like the OP wrote:

Will somebody please show me where in the New Testament we can find any of the believers paying tithes, or any of the Apostles asking for tithes? The epistles are full of discussions about giving for the support of preachers, teachers, and the poor: but no where do any of the Apostles ask for tithes or remind anyone to pay tithes. And, how can it be said that a man is not giving of necessity if he is obeying a LAW of tithing? How can it be said that a man is not giving of necessity, if he is convinced that he will be cursed with poverty if he fails to pay those tithes? Certainly, if the Apostle Paul thought he was authorized and obliged to demand tithes, he would have brought it up in 1 Corinthians chapter nine, where he asserts that he has a right to receive financial support from those he preaches to! Why doesn't Paul remind them that they are obliged to pay those tithes, and that he has a right to receive those tithes?

None of you is able to answer because you've decided to blind your eyes to the plain truth.

petra1:


They are parts of christology of the Old Testament such has been fulfilled in christ

keep quiet my friend, you are just a simple thief

UNIQUEISRAEL:
2Cor.9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

Will somebody please show me where in the New Testament we can find any of the believers paying tithes, or any of the Apostles asking for tithes?

The epistles are full of discussions about giving for the support of preachers, teachers, and the poor: but no where do any of the Apostles ask for tithes or remind anyone to pay tithes. And, how can it be said that a man is not giving of necessity if he is obeying a LAW of tithing?

How can it be said that a man is not giving of necessity, if he is convinced that he will be cursed with poverty if he fails to pay those tithes?

Certainly, if the Apostle Paul thought he was authorized and obliged to demand tithes, he would have brought it up in 1 Corinthians chapter nine,
where he asserts that he has a right to receive financial support from those he preaches to!
Why doesn't Paul remind them that they are obliged to pay those tithes, and that he has a right to receive those tithes?

plainbibletruth:
Like the OP wrote above:

None of you is able to answer because you've decided to blind your eyes to the plain truth.

Petra1 couldnt answer,
so out of desperation, he tried claiming the apostles endorsed tithing and made a pitiable attempt of using 1 Corinthians 9:13-14 as evidence
But we all know that 1 Corinthians 9:13-14, is credited to only Paul and no other apostle(s)

And that Paul used 1 Corinthians 9:13-14 as a syncrisis, also known as synkrisis,
written as a figure of speech, in where opposite things were compared
(i.e. ''the altar & temple'' and ''the gospel'')

The former (i.e. who work in the the altar & serve in the temple) live off tithe and stipulated offering,
whilst the latter (i.e. who preach the gospel) live off financial/material support, collections & donations from benefactors according to how each have decided in their hearts to give

Talk2nanro:
keep quiet my friend, you are just a simple thief

You and your father the devil are the thief .

petra1:


You and you father the devil are the thief .

animal, imagine this beast telling you about christianity. Fool, keep deceiving yourself ,idiot

plainbibletruth:


Like the OP wrote:

Then there's no point anybody keep bringing up the issue of circumcision.

petra1:


Then there's no point anybody keep bringing up the issue of circumcision.

A major premise of the "Eternal Principle" claim on tithing is that it existed before the Mosaic Law.

If this argument is to stand then we need to look at ALL the practices God instituted and see how they line up with the argument.

CIRCUMCISION is one of those practices that God took VERY SERIOUSLY. However, when it comes to the NEW COVENANT it is clear that the believer is NO LONGER under any such obligation.

Therefore if TITHING is still to be observed under the New Covenant those of you who say so ought to be able to clearly show how it is so. Unfortunately you've been unable to do that.

The conclusion we can come to then is that it is a made up claim to justify the unjustifiable.

plainbibletruth:

A major premise of the "Eternal Principle" claim on tithing is that it existed before the Mosaic Law.

If this argument is to stand then we need to look at ALL the practices God instituted and see how they line up with the argument.

CIRCUMCISION is one of those practices that God took VERY SERIOUSLY. However, when it comes to the NEW COVENANT it is clear that the believer is NO LONGER under any such obligation.

Therefore if TITHING is still to be observed under the New Covenant those of you who say so ought to be able to clearly show how it is so. Unfortunately you've been unable to do that.

The conclusion we can come to then is that it is a made up claim to justify the unjustifiable.

Not at all except you just refuse to see or acknowledge it. Types and shadow of Christ is seen from genesis to malachi. Christ fulfill those . He fulfilled offering for sin,he fulfilled circumvision . But he didn't fulfilled personal commitment in worshiping of God. He didn't fulfil tithing nor offering unto God . Neither did he fulfill personal prayer, so the fact that such things are mentioned in the law makes no difference . They are principles.

UNIQUEISRAEL:
Hey please, you dont criticize when you tell people the truth, and by the way you are even the one criticizing here ooo...
I'm so founded on the fact that the indoctrination of tithe payment by majority of men of God is not biblical, Tithe is never a doctrine.
I fellowship with DEEPER LIFE BIBLE CHURCH, but I'm never gullible, why? because I spare my personal time to study and balance up the scriptures, I give to the poor, I wash the disciples' feet, those were what Christ Commanded in His Word.
Thanks!!!

Do you know that Kumuyi preaches tithing, too? I'm a member, so I know. But I don't agree with him. I even told one of my youth leaders that tithing is one of the things that will make older leaders use wheelbarrow ferry me out of church.

lol

Abra4real:

Do you know that Kumuyi preaches tithing, too? I'm a member, so I know. But I don't agree with him. I even told one of my youth leaders that tithing is one of the things that will make older leaders use wheelbarrow ferry me out of church.

petra1:


Not at all except you just refuse to see or acknowledge it. Types and shadow of Christ is seen from genesis to malachi. Christ fulfill those . He fulfilled offering for sin,he fulfilled circumvision . But he didn't fulfilled personal commitment in worshiping of God. He didn't fulfil tithing nor offering unto God . Neither did he fulfill personal prayer, so the fact that such things are mentioned in the law makes no difference . They are principles.

How come no TITHER teach the PRINCIPLES enunciated by these portions of Scripture?:

"Now all who believed were together, and had all things in common, and sold their possessions and goods, and divided them among all, as anyone had need."
(Acts 2:44-45)


"Now the multitude of those who believed were of one heart and one soul; neither did anyone say that any of the things he possessed was his own, but they had all things in common. And with great power the apostles gave witness to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And great grace was upon them all. Nor was there anyone among them who lacked; for all who were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the proceeds of the things that were sold, and laid them at the apostles' feet; and they distributed to each as anyone had need."
(Acts 4:32-35)

How come none of them can SEE 'Christian Principles' from these to draw from?

Could it be because these Christian Principles go way beyond the "demanded" or "self-imposed" tithing that modern day tithers have ensnared themselves with?

plainbibletruth:

How come no TITHER teach the PRINCIPLES enunciated by these portions of Scripture?:

"Now all who believed were together, and had all things in common, and sold their possessions and goods, and divided them among all, as anyone had need."
(Acts 2:44-45)


"Now the multitude of those who believed were of one heart and one soul; neither did anyone say that any of the things he possessed was his own, but they had all things in common. And with great power the apostles gave witness to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And great grace was upon them all. Nor was there anyone among them who lacked; for all who were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the proceeds of the things that were sold, and laid them at the apostles' feet; and they distributed to each as anyone had need."
(Acts 4:32-35)

How come none of them can SEE 'Christian Principles' from these to draw from?

Could it be because these Christian Principles go way beyond the "demanded" or "self-imposed" tithing that modern day tithers have ensnared themselves with?

Sharing among one another Philadelphia is different from giving to God. There's difference between giving to brethren and giving to God

petra1:


Sharing among one another Philadelphia is different from giving to God. There's difference between giving to brethren and giving to God

"The King will answer and say to them, ‘I assure you and most solemnly say to you, to the extent that you did it for one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it for Me.’
MATTHEW 25:40 AMP

petra1:
Not at all except you just refuse to see or acknowledge it.
Types and shadow of Christ is seen from genesis to malachi. Christ fulfill those. He fulfilled offering for sin, he fulfilled circumvision

Unless there is more to it, why anyone will cling for existence to a shadow baffles me
If there is shadow, then there more be a real thing
Tithe is a shadow, and not the real thing
Tithe is shadow of thing(s) to come...

Tithing is an area of darkness, caused by light being blocked by sincere ignorance, by willful ignorance, by the allure of filthy lucre, by being ill-informed etcetera

petra1:
But he didn't fulfilled personal commitment in worshiping of God

Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God--this is your true and proper worship
- Romans 12:1

petra1:
He didn't fulfil tithing nor offering unto God.
Neither did he fulfill personal prayer, so the fact that such things are mentioned in the law makes no difference. They are principles

He DID fulfil BOTH, tithing or offering unto God
Jesus is our perpetual tithe OR offering to God

petra1:
Sharing among one another Philadelphia is different from giving to God.
There's difference between giving to brethren and giving to God

"The king will answer them, 'I can guarantee this truth:
Whatever you did for one of my brothers or sisters, no matter how unimportant [they seemed], you did for me.'
- Matthew 25:40

There's NO difference between giving to brethren and giving to God
because whatever you did for one of the least of the brethren, you did for Me, says Matthew 25:40 above

petra1:
Then there's no point anybody keep bringing up the issue of circumcision.

Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing.
Keeping God's commandments is what matters.
- 1 Corinthians 7:19

Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything; what counts is the new creation.
- Galatians 6:15

Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all
- Galatians 5:2

Exactly the point.
If there's no point for anybody to keep bringing up the issue of circumcision
then there's no point either for anyone to keep bringing up the issue of tithing too
because just like circumcision has no value,
so as well ''tithing'' or ''not tithing'' have no value.

''tithing'' or ''not tithing'' is nothing, dont mean anything, what counts is the new creation you've become in Christ Jesus

petra1:
TITHES AND OFFERINGS ARE ETERNAL PRINCIPLES

The church doesn't need a command to tithe it was already a principle in the kingdom of God . Just as other biblical principles such as prayer,fasting,worship, honoring your father and mother, alms to the poor etc . These principle existed before the law came .
TITHING EXISTED BEFORE THE LAW

Hebrews 7:6
But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.

JESUS ENDORSED TITHING [/b]
Matthew 23:23 (NLT>
. . . . You should tithe, yes, but do not neglect the more important things

Matthew 22:21
. . . , Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.

THE APOSTLES ENDORSED

It's through tithes and offerings the workers of the terbernacle and temple get their welfare . And the apostles used it as illustration here.

1 Corinthians 9:13-14
13 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? 14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.

1. Explain external principles
2. Jesus endorsed tithing because He was under the law. Note: He paid tax but He didn't tithe because it was agricultural products according to the law.
3. The Bible recorded Paul receiving gifts from the Church to support his ministry and not tithe

plainbibletruth:

"The King will answer and say to them, ‘I assure you and most solemnly say to you, to the extent that you did it for one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it for Me.’
MATTHEW 25:40 AMP

There are different kinds of givings in the Bible . To parents ,to the poor, to strangers ,to man of God , to brethren , to God etc. One does not supplant the other . You can't say because you gave to your parents you have given to God and you can't say because you gave yo your parents you are excused from giving to God.

Mark 7:11
11 But you say it is all right for people to say to their parents, ‘Sorry, I can’t help you. For I have vowed to give to God what I would have given to you.’

See , we don't try to cut corners in giving . We do all.

petra1:
There are different kinds of givings in the Bible. To parents ,to the poor, to strangers ,to man of God , to brethren , to God etc. One does not supplant the other. You can't say because you gave to your parents you have given to God and you can't say because you gave yo your parents you are excused from giving to God

In their greed they will make up clever lies to get hold of your money.
But God condemned them long ago, and their destruction will not be delayed.
- 2 Peter 2:3

You must each decide in your heart how much to give.
And don't give reluctantly or in response to pressure. "For God loves a person who gives cheerfully."
- 2 Corinthians 9:7

There is no distinction in all the different kinds of givings anymore,
because, now, all the different kinds of givings falls under one umbrella,
and that is an umbrella called cheerful giving done under no compulsion as can be seen in 2 Corinthians 9:7 above

There is no special, designated or stipulated giving anymore
because you're now expected to give as you're led in the spirit,
expected to give any amount that you have decided in your heart done under no forcing, coercion or manipulation

petra1:
Mark 7:11
11 But you say it is all right for people to say to their parents,
‘Sorry, I can’t help you. For I have vowed to give to God what I would have given to you.’

See , we don't try to cut corners in giving. We do all.

⁷Their worship is a farce,
for they teach man-made ideas as commands from God.
⁸For you ignore God’s law and substitute your own tradition.”
⁹Then he said, “You skillfully sidestep God’s law in order to hold on to your own tradition.
¹⁰For instance, Moses gave you this law from God: ‘Honor your father and mother,’e and ‘Anyone who speaks disrespectfully of father or mother must be put to death.
¹¹But you say it is all right for people to say to their parents,
‘Sorry, I can’t help you. For I have vowed to give to God what I would have given to you.
(i.e. it is Corban, that is, devoted to God, so I cant give it out)
¹²In this way, you let them disregard their needy parents.
¹³And so you cancel the word of God in order to hand down your own tradition.
And this is only one example among many others
- Mark 7:7-13

Sorry brother, you are not expected to try to cut corners in giving
but you're meant to turn the corner in giving

and you do all, by just doing one giving,
which is: Give any amount that you have decided in your heart, has to be done under no forcing, coercion or manipulation

It doesnt look good at all, reading a whole you brother, twisting and misusing Mark 7:11 like this
because it is glaring that, Jesus, in Mark 7:11, was in effect saying to the Pharisees that:
You say, Sorry, I can’t help you, as I have vowed to give this tithe money to God that I would have given to you.’

There is nothing like corban for believers.
Tithe is not corban, especially not to a believer

It is not a matter of opinion but it is an objective fact that, tithing and/or tithe money is no longer sacrosanct
Tithe money, now can, ought to be and should be given to whomsoever or whatsoever is in need of it
(e.g. parents, the poor, neighbour in need, good causes etcetera)

petra1:


There are different kinds of givings in the Bible . To parents ,to the poor, to strangers ,to man of God , to brethren , to God etc. One does not supplant the other . You can't say because you gave to your parents you have given to God and you can't say because you gave yo your parents you are excused from giving to God.

Mark 7:11
11 But you say it is all right for people to say to their parents, ‘Sorry, I can’t help you. For I have vowed to give to God what I would have given to you.’

See , we don't try to cut corners in giving . We do all.

Petra, Oh Petra!
Look at that Bible verse again.
It was the Lord himself that made that statement.
If you refuse to acknowledge and understand what the Lord himself said then no wonder that accepting our comments here has been impossible for you to do.

You said " There's difference between giving to brethren and giving to God", to which I pointed you to that verse of Scripture.

Jesus is clearly saying here that giving to any of his brethren is giving to him.

And all you can say is " There are different kinds of givings in the Bible"

Be sincere and look again at your statements in the light of that verse. Is Jesus saying there that if one gives to a brother he IS NOT giving to him? Or is it the other way round?

BTW, how do you give to God? Is it ONLY through tithe?

Your refusal to admit and accept that the 'NEW' has come and the 'OLD' should give way is a stumbling in your spiritual life as a Christian.

plainbibletruth:
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Petra, Oh Petra!
Look at that Bible verse again.
It was the Lord himself that made that statement.
If you refuse to acknowledge and understand what the Lord himself said then no wonder that accepting our comments here has been impossible for you to do.

You said " There's difference between giving to brethren and giving to God", to which I pointed you to that verse of Scripture.

Jesus is clearly saying here that giving to any of his brethren is giving to him.

And all you can say is " There are different kinds of givings in the Bible"

Be sincere and look again at your statements in the light of that verse. Is Jesus saying there that if one gives to a brother he IS NOT giving to him? Or is it the other way round?

BTW, how do you give to God? Is it ONLY through tithe?

Your refusal to admit and accept that the 'NEW' has come and the 'OLD' should give way is a stumbling in your spiritual life as a Christian.

Part of honoring parents is giving to them. And the Pharisees taught that once you give to God . You can leave out giving to parents . But Jesus condemned the teaching