chukwudi44:

@pastor AIO

don't allow me open the dossier on the disastrous henry viii ,the founder of the anglican church

Do you think regardless of usage that the term "infallible" can ever be ascribed to doctrinal declarations of ANY HUMAN BEING

chukwudi44:

The prophecies in the scripture were written by human beings under divine guidance and are thus infallible.Likewise the pope can be influenced by the holy spirit to propound an infallible dogma.

nuclearboy:

We know He had the capability to write it on tablets of stone like Moses law but allowed men to write in their own words in their own way because it was meant for men.

nuclearboy:

The fact that you can find seeming contradictions in it is beside the point. Why not look at the message?

nuclearboy:

We have the prophecies of which quite a number have been verified.

nuclearboy:

We have laws that seem to change with time because God is dynamic and would not treat a 21st century "civilized" society the way he'd treat a barbarian society or treat a horde of savages the way he treats the elite. We were created in His image, the book says and true to type, you do not treat your daughter the way you'll treat a guy coming at you with a knife and rage in his eyes. We have guides to worship, comparison of "gods', treatises on pride, cruelty, money etc. Yet the message remains singular. Love God and love your neighbor as yourself. Think about those statement and you'll find all the successes of humanity have been built on those desires.

And not all Christians will say "the devil is using you" when you critique the Bible.

It has served us well, this myth of Christ.

Widely attributed to Leo X, the earliest known source of this statement is actually a polemical work by John Bale Acta Romanorum Pontificum which was first translated from Latin into English as The Pageant of the Popes in 1574: "For on a time when a cardinall Bembus did move a question out of the Gospell, the Pope gave him a very contemptuous answer saying: All ages can testifie enough howe profitable that fable of Christe hath ben to us and our companie." The Pope in this case being Leo X.



http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Pope_Leo_X

Deep Sight:

^^^ God? God? ? God? ? ?

God would not give us an institution that has a very well documented history of corruption, violence and duplicity.

Can we even begin to quantify it?

Aside all the old atrocities, just look at the role of the Pope and Church in the 2nd world war. . . they could not speak truth to power. . .

MyJoe:

@Krayola

I agree with the spirit of what you said, but the only problem with the "understanding" you speak of is that it is subjective, and, even more serious, often elusive.

MyJoe:

BTW, King Henry wanted a male heir, not necessarily a new bedmate. You only had to get one before the other since their culture and religion did not allow polygamy.

Krayola:

Understanding, IMO, isn't about answers, but about perspectives, and having different sets of vantage points from which to look at stuff. I think mature faith is willing to face the obvious "issues" that arise when it comes to having to believe stuff that one knows does not agree with what one's experience of reality is. When belief in God = belief in the unreasonable/irrational/superstitous etc, that is when i want nothing to do with it. I will not believe in a God that insists that I do not use faculties he has given me to find my way in this world, and to God. And any "man of God" that tells me that is the way to God will get a spit in the face from me. But that's just me.

Krayola:

haha. . same s.h.it different toilet  . I admit my post was a little cynical but the koko of the matter was that the upstart of the new church had little to do with matters of faith.

^^ God gave the world malaria and HIV?

evidence?

Yisraylite:
A favorite satire that developed around him was called the "Gospel according to Marks and Silver", which said:

"In those days, Pope Leo said to the clergy: 'When Jesus the Son of Man shall come to the seat of our Majesty, say first of all, 'Friend, wherefore art Thou come hither? And if He gives you naught in silver or gold, cast Him forth into outer darkness.'"
(A History of the Popes, Dr Joseph McCabe, ibid., vol. 2, chapter on "The Age of Power"

It was Pope Leo X who made the most infamous and damaging statement about Christianity in the history of the Church. His declaration revealed to the world papal knowledge of the Vatican's false presentation of Jesus Christ and unashamedly exposed the puerile nature of the Christian religion. At a lavish Good Friday banquet in the Vatican in 1514, and in the company of "seven intimates" (Annales Ecclesiastici, Caesar Baronius, Folio Antwerp, 1597, tome 14), Leo made an amazing announcement that the Church has since tried hard to invalidate.



Raising a chalice of wine into the air, Pope Leo toasted:

"How well we know what a profitable superstition this fable of Christ has been for us and our predecessors."



The pope's pronouncement is recorded in the diaries and records of both Pietro Cardinal Bembo (Letters and Comments on Pope Leo X, 1842 reprint) and Paolo Cardinal Giovio (De Vita Leonis Decimi, , op. cit.), two associates who were witnesses to it.


Caesar (Cardinal) Baronius (1538-1607) was Vatican librarian for seven years and wrote a 12-volume history of the Church, known as Annales Ecclesiastici. He was the Church's most outstanding historian (Catholic Encyclopedia, New Edition, 1976, ii, p. 105) and his records provide vital inside information for anybody studying the rich depth of falsification in Christianity.



Cardinal Baronius, who turned down two offers to become pope in 1605, added the following comments about Pope Leo's declaration:

"The Pontiff has been accused of atheism, for he denied God and called Christ, in front of cardinals Pietro Bembo, Jovius and Iacopo Sadoleto and other intimates, 'a fable' ,  it must be corrected".
(Annales Ecclesiastici, op. cit., tomes viii and xi)

In an early edition of the Catholic Encyclopedia (Pecci ed., iii, pp. 312-314, passim), the Church devoted two-and-half pages in an attempt to nullify the most destructive statement ever made by the head of Christianity. It based the essence of its argument on the assumption that what the pope meant by "profitable" was "gainful", and "fable" was intended to mean "tradition".



Hence, confused Catholic theologians argued that what the pope really meant was,

"How well Christians have gained from this wonderful tradition of Christ".

But that isn't what he said.


It is from Christianity's own records that Pope Leo's statement became known to the world. In his diaries, Cardinal Bembo, the Pope's secretary for seven years, added that Leo:

", was known to disbelieve Christianity itself. He advanced contrary to the faith and that in condemning the Gospel, therefore he must be a heretic; he was guilty of sodomy with his chamberlains; was addicted to pleasure, luxury, idleness, ambition, unchastity and sensuality; and spent his whole days in the company of musicians and buffoons. His Infallibility's drunkenness was proverbial, he practiced incontinency as well as inebriation, and the effects of his crimes shattered the people's constitution."
(Letters and Comments on Pope Leo X, ibid.)

For more visit http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/vatican/esp_vatican30c.htm

jkoenzuraida:
Pretty much to the point. Please keep these articles coming. Septic tank pumping Augusta

Corporate Investigation Dayton

Yisraylite:
A favorite satire that developed around him was called the "Gospel according to Marks and Silver", which said:

"In those days, Pope Leo said to the clergy: 'When Jesus the Son of Man shall come to the seat of our Majesty, say first of all, 'Friend, wherefore art Thou come hither? And if He gives you naught in silver or gold, cast Him forth into outer darkness.'"
(A History of the Popes, Dr Joseph McCabe, ibid., vol. 2, chapter on "The Age of Power"

It was Pope Leo X who made the most infamous and damaging statement about Christianity in the history of the Church. His declaration revealed to the world papal knowledge of the Vatican's false presentation of Jesus Christ and unashamedly exposed the puerile nature of the Christian religion. At a lavish Good Friday banquet in the Vatican in 1514, and in the company of "seven intimates" (Annales Ecclesiastici, Caesar Baronius, Folio Antwerp, 1597, tome 14), Leo made an amazing announcement that the Church has since tried hard to invalidate.