All praise is to Allaah.

May Allaah always guide the hands that strived to type this.

However, this is a misguidance which many Muslims will fall into great error from it.

It is reported authentically from the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) the prohibition of calculating or fixing the acts of worship in the religion.

So, we do not calculate the periods of beginning ramadoon except when the new moon is sighted which signals the commencement of fasting based on the announcement of the leader of the Muslims.

Meanwhile, those calculated dates for the eating of sahuur and observing of iftoor will only mislead the Muslims. Thereby making eat sahuur wrongly and break thier fasting ignorantly.

And the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) warned from spreading misguidance when he said: whosoever leads people to misguidance will have the aim written for him (and those who follow him ignorantly) without any decrease whatsoever in the punishment of the both parties.

Therefore, it is necessary to checkmate what we read and listen to before sharing it with others.

May Allaah forgive and overlook our shortcomings.
Abu Abdullah Farooq Al-egbaawi
.......
This is a warning to Muslims and Non-muslims to stop Spreading the RAMADAN timetable for 2017

Salam alaykum

Can you provide evidence for not using the calculated prayer times?

Mofpearl:
Salam alaykum

Can you provide evidence for not using the calculated prayer times?

Waalaykumussalaam-WarahmatuLlaah-Wabarakatuh, can you also provide evidence for using it?.

AbuUbayy1:

Waalaykumussalaam-WarahmatuLlaah-Wabarakatuh, can you also provide evidence for using it?.

The general principle is things are permissible except there is evidence that prohibits it.

Can you provide evidence for the prohibition in using the calculated time for prayer and other acts of worship?

Mofpearl:


The general principle is things are permissible except there is evidence that prohibits it.

Not all things.....

AbdelKabir:


Not all things.....

I know there are exceptions but I don't know much about them. Does the OP's topic fall under that?

I just want the evidences because the OP's stance is new to me. I know he wasn't the one that wrote it but he shared it so I thought I'd ask for the evidences. Anyone who makes a claim should provide evidence for it.

Mofpearl:


I know there are exceptions but I don't know much about them. Does the OP's topic fall under that?

I just want the evidences because the OP's stance is new to me. I know he wasn't the one that wrote it but he shared it so I thought I'd ask for the evidences. Anyone who makes a claim should provide evidence for it.

All acts of worship done without evidence even though no specific text prohibit them are rejected, so the issue of "generally permissible......." Does not come in, "generally permissible....." Comes in when we talking about mundane affairs..... The op is talking about act of worship...That's 1

2.) when you specifically state a time to do an act of worship, we will ask you, where have you gotten your evidence for stating a particular time for that act of worship, only the prophet has the right to give a time like he has done in many instances like saying dua said between iqaama and adhan is not rejected.....so here we have a specific time.....so when you calculate a time, you have to provide evidence for it...

3.) Its known that timing for Maghrib do vary and it is sunset, if timetable says iftaar starts by 6:30pm but on a particular day the sunset came up like 6:50pm, the ignorant among the Muslims using that timetable will fall into error...

4.) Islamic calendar can be 29 or 30 days depending on sighting of the moon, we've seen people following timetable to start fasting instead by a day extra or less....

AbdelKabir:


All acts of worship done without evidence even though no specific text prohibit them are rejected, so the issue of "generally permissible......." Does not come in, "generally permissible....." Comes in when we talking about mundane affairs..... That's 1

2.) when you specifically state a time to do an act of worship, we will ask you, where have you gotten your evidence for stating a particular time for that act of worship, only the prophet has the right to give a time like he has done in many instances like saying dua said between iqaama and adhan is not rejected.....so here we have a specific time.....so when you calculate a time, you have to provide evidence for it...

3.) Its known that timing for Maghrib do vary and it is sunset, if timetable says iftaar starts by 6:30pm but on a particular day the sunset came up like 6:50pm, the ignorant among the Muslims using that timetable will fall into error...

4.) Islamic calendar can be 29 or 30 days depending on sighting of the moon, we've seen people following timetable to start fasting instead by a day extra or less....

We aren't attributing specific time for any acts of worship when we calculate time. We are simply predicting based on calculations that that sunset will fall at a certain time. It is similar to predicting/guessing the weather. Yes it isn't a 100% Yes i isn't a 100% correct all the time, that's why one should be careful and cross check. If people are careless regarding that, then it's a problem is from their side. With regards to sighting the mood, there is an hadith that specifically says to sight the moon. The author claimed that there is an authentic narration supporting the prohibition on calculating times for worship.

Mofpearl:


We aren't attributing specific time for any acts of worship when we calculate time.

Actually you are, if not why spread timetable about if you weren't sure? Comparing this with weather prediction is an error, this is matter of deen and when you are not sure, you don't say...

The author claimed that there is an authentic narration supporting the prohibition on calculating times for worship.

I don't know of such hadeeth, perhaps the op will provide it, but the hadeeth of innovation can also be used......

AbdelKabir:


Actually you are, if not why spread timetable about if you weren't sure? Comparing this with weather prediction is an error, this is matter of deen and when you are not sure, you don't say...

Because it accurate most of the time with only a few minute difference when it isn't. Astrologers don't claim it's exact so It's up to the people to decide if they use it as a guide or if they firmly follow it. It is only a guide. If the time predicted stated 5:50 and I haven't heard the adthan then I know to wait until the adthan is called. I will still read up on this.

I don't know of such hadeeth, perhaps the op will provide it, but the hadeeth of innovation can also be used......

How is this an innovation?

I will be posting some links in sha Allah.

Mofpearl:


Because it accurate most of the time with only a few minute difference when it isn't. Astrologers don't claim it's exact so It's up to the people to decide if they use it as a guide or if they firmly follow it. It is only a guide. If the time predicted stated 5:50 and I haven't heard the adthan then I know to wait until the adthan is called. I will still read up on this.

I am think my words are clear enough...

How is this an innovation?

Setting up a time for an act of worship which have no evidence like the timing of a dua between adhan and iqaamq is an innovation....

AbdelKabir:


Setting up a time for an act of worship which have no evidence like the timing of a dua between adhan and iqaamq is an innovation....

How does this relate? The prayer times don't set up times between adthan ans iqama.

Mofpearl:

How does this relate? The prayer times don't set up times between adthan ans iqama.

The op is talking about calculating the time for the kick off for Ramadan, iftaar and when sahur should stop, and you calculate time for all these and spread among the people, two things come in

1.) You are saying these timing are for the act of these worship and that's an innovation for which there is no evidence, the hadeeth comes in..

2.) You are not sure, yet you are spreading timetable among the people, then you have spoken without knowledge....


Again, the op is talking about Ramadan........

AbdelKabir:


The op is talking about calculating the time for the kick off for Ramadan, iftaar and when sahur should stop, and you calculate time for all these and spread among the people, two things come in

1.) You are saying these timing are for the act of these worship and that's an innovation for which there is no evidence, the hadeeth comes in..

Study of the positions and movements of the stars (astronomy) is divided into two categories:

1 – If their movements are used to define things that serve a religious purpose, this is something that is necessary. If that helps in the case of religious obligations, then learning it is obligatory, such as using the stars to determine the direction of the qiblah (direction of Makkah).

2 – If their movements are used to define things that serve a worldly purpose, there is nothing wrong with that. This is of two types:

(a) Using the stars to work out directions, such as knowing that the pole lies to the north, and that the Pole Star, which is close to it, revolves around the North Pole. This is permissible. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And landmarks (signposts, during the day) and by the stars (during the night), they (mankind) guide themselves”

[al-Nahl 16:16]

(b) Using the stars to work out the seasons, through learning the phases of the moon. Some of the salaf regarded this as makrooh while others permitted it. The correct view is that it is permissible and there is nothing makrooh in it, because there is no shirk involved in it, unless one learns it in order to attribute rainfall or cold weather to it, and says that this is what is causing that. That is a kind of shirk. But simply knowing the time of year from it, whether it is spring or autumn or winter, there is nothing wrong with that.

See al-Qawl al-Mufeed by Shaykh Muhammad ibn ‘Uthaymeen (may Allaah have mercy on him), 2/102.

2.) You are not sure, yet you are spreading timetable among the people, then you have spoken without knowledge....

See above. No mention of innovation or

Again, the op is talking about Ramadan........

The OP did not differentiate between Ramadan and other months when he mentioned that a hadith prohibited calculating time for acts of worship. We also pray outside Ramadan.

AbdelKabir:


Actually you are, if not why spread timetable about if you weren't sure? Comparing this with weather prediction is an error, this is matter of deen and when you are not sure, you don't say...




I don't know of such hadeeth, perhaps the op will provide it, but the hadeeth of innovation can also be used......

so gullible

Mofpearl:


Study of the positions and movements of the stars (astronomy) is divided into two categories:

1 – If their movements are used to define things that serve a religious purpose, this is something that is necessary. If that helps in the case of religious obligations, then learning it is obligatory, such as using the stars to determine the direction of the qiblah (direction of Makkah).

2 – If their movements are used to define things that serve a worldly purpose, there is nothing wrong with that. This is of two types:

(a) Using the stars to work out directions, such as knowing that the pole lies to the north, and that the Pole Star, which is close to it, revolves around the North Pole. This is permissible. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And landmarks (signposts, during the day) and by the stars (during the night), they (mankind) guide themselves”

[al-Nahl 16:16]

(b) Using the stars to work out the seasons, through learning the phases of the moon. Some of the salaf regarded this as makrooh while others permitted it. The correct view is that it is permissible and there is nothing makrooh in it, because there is no shirk involved in it, unless one learns it in order to attribute rainfall or cold weather to it, and says that this is what is causing that. That is a kind of shirk. But simply knowing the time of year from it, whether it is spring or autumn or winter, there is nothing wrong with that.

See al-Qawl al-Mufeed by Shaykh Muhammad ibn ‘Uthaymeen (may Allaah have mercy on him), 2/102.

Using a fatwa you dont know the situation that borders around the question and why the scholar replied that way is wrong...

I learnt from my teacher in a fiqh class that tbe prophet once gave two different answers to two different individuals with the same question after studying the situation around two questions, so you don't just pick a fatwa....

That's BTW

I said, stipulating a particular time for acts of worship is an innovation, I don't know how else to say this...

And you shouldn't try to make it seem like error this timetable bring is minor, Fasting a day before or after the actual time is not small an error, or breaking before its time is not small an error...

The OP did not differentiate between Ramadan and other months when he mentioned that a hadith prohibited calculating time for acts of worship. We also pray outside Ramadan.

Read the op again and see where the attention is directed to...

The op talked about starting of Ramadan, sahur, iftaar.....can you present anything other than this?

The op said this

Meanwhile, those calculated dates for the eating of sahuur and observing of iftoor will only mislead the Muslims. Thereby making eat sahuur wrongly and break thier fasting ignorantly.

And this;

So, we do not calculate the periods of beginning ramadoon except when the new moon is sighted which signals the commencement of fasting based on the announcement of the leader of the Muslims.

The topic of the thread is; Stop Spreading Baseless RAMADAN Time Table

As for praying outside Ramadan, although that's not the op concentration, its a different case, time for prayers fall in between a time frame, not a specific time...

But the timetable says Ramadan starts so so and so date which might lead some to fasting before the day or after the day....

AbdelKabir:


Using a fatwa you dont know the situation that borders around the question and why the scholar replied that way is wrong...

I learnt from my teacher in a fiqh class that tbe prophet once gave two different answers to two different individuals with the same question after studying the situation around two questions, so you don't just pick a fatwa....

I was looking for the link, I waned to specifically link the book but here it is https://islamqa.info/en/22445
I still have more links concerning calculating prayer time but I wasn't sure if I should post them. None of the authentic websites I checked said it wasn't permissible to calculate time of worship except for when using it alone to determine some months of worship like beginning of Ramadan, hajj etc. There was no mention of innovation. I also thought I'd give op a chance to clarify the hadith issue.

That's BTW

I said, stipulating a particular time for acts of worship is an innovation, I don't know how else to say this...

And you shouldn't try to make it seem like error this timetable bring is minor, Fasting a day before or after the actual time is not small an error, or breaking before its time is not small an error...

I am not making any issue a minor issue. Like I have mentioned, when it comes to fasting the prophet specifically commanded us to look for the crescent.

Read the op again and see where the attention is directed to...

The op talked about starting of Ramadan, sahur, iftaar.....can you present anything other than this?

The op said this And this;

The topic of the thread is; Stop Spreading Baseless RAMADAN Time Table

The Op also said that there is a authentic prohibition on calculating the acts of worship and didn't specify. This was the original reason I commented. The mention of Suhoor and Iftar falls under prayer time so I assumed he included those as well. He called the calculations baseless and said it will misguide people. The way it was written condemns calculating time as as whole. When I asked abut the evidence, he mentioned I should provide evidence that it was permissible to calculate prayer times, so I assumed he was the opinion that it is prohibited. All I wanted was evidence for that.

As for praying outside Ramadan, although that's not the op concentration, its a different case, time for prayers fall in between a time frame, not a specific time...

OK

But the timetable says Ramadan starts so so and so date which might lead some to fasting before the day or after the day....

I have mentioned that people should sight the moon when it comes to Ramadan.