In pictures: Zimbabwe's impoverished pensioners

Is there no stopping this mad man Mugabe

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_pictures/8068419.stm

you can see this kind of thing in usa too

The man Mugabe remains a hero that is being dealt with by the Western powers for not carrying out their instructions.

What Zimbabweans are going through today could happen to even Nigerians if the same type of conspiracy is carried out by the Western powers.

We need to start asking why not just analysing what.

Yes, Afam. I have said this numerous time here and elsewhere but it seems the level of ignorance being demonstrated by my black brothers and sisters are too much. What do you expect when they know where 50cent eat every night, where Rihanna buy her cloths and where snoop dogg buy his smokes.
Yet they cant locate Zimbabwe on the map.
We can only continue to create awareness here but the power of American media is too much for us to overlap.

No matter what anyone says,the West are not responsible for bad governance. These blame games on the west decades after Africa achieved independence is now sounding boring.

that's my grouse with Mugabe.

you can see this kind of thing in usa too Maybe in your figment of imagination. It wasnt OK for white settlers to oppress black Zimbabweans, but it's for a black man- Mugabe to turn his fellow country men/women into slaves. I know for sure that Zims would rather like to live in happy times than these hard times.

@ Afam

Afam:

The man Mugabe remains a hero that is being dealt with by the Western powers for not carrying out their instructions.

What Zimbabweans are going through today could happen to even Nigerians if the same type of conspiracy is carried out by the Western powers.

We need to start asking why not just analysing what.

I beg to disagree with your position. It is not enough to always blame the West for all our woes when we all know that they are self-inflicted woes. If you think Mugabe is a hero, then villainy doesn't exist. Albeit, many will consider it a travesty to consider someone like Mugabe a hero by whatever stretch of imagination.
This man gained power in 1980 and has been unwilling to relinquish it ever since. For 30 years (maybe it should be in figures), he has been ruling Zimbabwe through coercion and persuasion. He has changed the country's constitution several times to perpetuate himself in power, even when it was obvious that Zimbabweans have had enough of him by voting massively for Morgan Tsvangirai. Yet, your hero held on to power and he cunningly agreed to share power (that he had lost) with the opposition after series of violent confrontations between supporters of both parties and interventions from Thabo Mbeki, Arcbishop Tutu etc.
Yes, it almost happened to Nigeria in 1995 and it was Mugabe, yes Mugabe that championed it. The Nigerian dictator had just executed Ken Saro Wiwa much to the consternation of the whole world. The Commonwealth Conference that year was held in Harare (remember the Games was also held there in 95 like Abuja 2003). Mugabe, alongside other Commonwealth leaders openly sent Nigeria represented by Tom Ikimi out of the Conference. There were sanctions against Nigeria then until we returned to democracy in 1999. Maybe you will recall that Nigeria was in economic doldrums in the late 1990s as a result of this.

When despotic rulers fail to do the right things, their people become the unfortunate pawns in the game of politics.

pcicero:

@ Afam
I beg to disagree with your position. It is not enough to always blame the West for all our woes when we all know that they are self-inflicted woes. If you think Mugabe is a hero, then villainy doesn't exist. Albeit, many will consider it a travesty to consider someone like Mugabe a hero by whatever stretch of imagination.
This man gained power in 1980 and has been unwilling to relinquish it ever since. For 30 years (maybe it should be in figures), he has been ruling Zimbabwe through coercion and persuasion. He has changed the country's constitution several times to perpetuate himself in power, even when it was obvious that Zimbabweans have had enough of him by voting massively for Morgan Tsvangirai. Yet, your hero held on to power and he cunningly agreed to share power (that he had lost) with the opposition after series of violent confrontations between supporters of both parties and interventions from Thabo Mbeki, Arcbishop Tutu etc.
Yes, it almost happened to Nigeria in 1995 and it was Mugabe, yes Mugabe that championed it. The Nigerian dictator had just executed Ken Saro Wiwa much to the consternation of the whole world. The Commonwealth Conference that year was held in Harare (remember the Games was also held there in 95 like Abuja 2003). Mugabe, alongside other Commonwealth leaders openly sent Nigeria represented by Tom Ikimi out of the Conference. There were sanctions against Nigeria then until we returned to democracy in 1999. Maybe you will recall that Nigeria was in economic doldrums in the late 1990s as a result of this.

When despotic rulers fail to do the right things, their people become the unfortunate pawns in the game of politics.

excellently put

Poster - Go and read the history of zimbabwe. Is it bad governance or sanctions caused by the pursuit of land reforms that brought zimbabwe to its knees. I am 101% in agreement with Afam on this issue.

SapeleGuy:

Poster - Go and read the history of zimbabwe. Is it bad governance or sanctions caused by the pursuit of land reforms that brought zimbabwe to its knees. I am 101% in agreement with Afam on this issue.

It is bad governance when a leader doesn't know how the pendulum of international politics swings.

Let me ask you one question: Will the UK economy collapse if Zimbabwe places sanctions on them??

I hope you know the answer

It is also criminal to remain in power for 30 years.

Is he the only one capable of ruling Zimbabwe?

Sam Milla:

you can see this kind of thing in usa too

and that makes it normal. good job mugabe.

MrPrsdent:

It is bad governance when a leader doesn't know how the pendulum of international politics swings.

Let me ask you one question: Will the UK economy collapse if Zimbabwe places sanctions on them??

I hope you know the answer

With respect you are comparing apples with akpu.  I defy you to name a country that has flourished in the face of such sanctions with EU, UK & USA.

They have a system based on the british parliamentary style of government - there is no term limit, if you win 6 elections you stay in power for 30 years.

The issue is land reform.

"According to government figures published before the current crisis, some 4, 400 whites owned 32% of Zimbabwe's agricultural land - around 10m ha - while about one million black peasant families farmed 16m ha or 38%.

But much of the white-owned land is in more fertile areas with better rainfall, while the black farming areas are often in drought-prone regions. So in terms of prime farming land, whites own a disproportionate share."

Your grudges against Mugabe means literally nothing to people who understand international politics.
You cannot sell your rights for people to eat rice and bread every Morning.
People make noises about blaming the West many years after independence.

Wake up people, please wake up. Lets discuss this one by one.
Have you ever heard about monopoly in international trade?
This simply means a situation where all the supermarkets in Africa are populated with products made in
China, italy, USA, UK, Germany ,

Go to walmart in the United States or IKEA all over Europe to look for anything made in Nigeria, Ghana, Cameroun, Zimbabwe. [none].
How do you expect to grow at your own pace or at a pace that is proportional to the birth rate of your country ?

How did China Emerge in the International scene ?

pcicero:

@ Afam
I beg to disagree with your position. It is not enough to always blame the West for all our woes when we all know that they are self-inflicted woes. If you think Mugabe is a hero, then villainy doesn't exist. Albeit, many will consider it a travesty to consider someone like Mugabe a hero by whatever stretch of imagination.
This man gained power in 1980 and has been unwilling to relinquish it ever since. For 30 years (maybe it should be in figures), he has been ruling Zimbabwe through coercion and persuasion. He has changed the country's constitution several times to perpetuate himself in power, even when it was obvious that Zimbabweans have had enough of him by voting massively for Morgan Tsvangirai. Yet, your hero held on to power and he cunningly agreed to share power (that he had lost) with the opposition after series of violent confrontations between supporters of both parties and interventions from Thabo Mbeki, Arcbishop Tutu etc.
Yes, it almost happened to Nigeria in 1995 and it was Mugabe, yes Mugabe that championed it. The Nigerian dictator had just executed Ken Saro Wiwa much to the consternation of the whole world. The Commonwealth Conference that year was held in Harare (remember the Games was also held there in 95 like Abuja 2003). Mugabe, alongside other Commonwealth leaders openly sent Nigeria represented by Tom Ikimi out of the Conference. There were sanctions against Nigeria then until we returned to democracy in 1999. Maybe you will recall that Nigeria was in economic doldrums in the late 1990s as a result of this.

When despotic rulers fail to do the right things, their people become the unfortunate pawns in the game of politics.

I respect your right to disagree with me but I expect more insight into the issues and respect for facts.

The content in bold (above) has no bearing on this issue because I never made such statement neither did I imply same. I was specific in my post and it would be appreciated if you limited your response to what I stated and not some general and misleading statement.

1. Morgan wouldn't have earned enough votes to warrant a run off if Mugabe was bent on rigging the election especially when the Western media claimed he sent them all away so he could rig the election.

2. Mugabe enjoys the support of at least half of Zimbabweans based on the said elections including the military whose support is crucial in any government in any part of the world.

3. Libya's president has been in power since 1969 so it is not about how long but how well.

4. Mugabe was honored in Britain as a Knight when the going was good. Remember that Zimbabwe at a time had the highest literacy level in Africa and was a beautiful place.

5. Whites maiming and killing blacks while forcefully taking over their lands seem to be ok with you guys but returning such lands back to their original owners seem savage.

6. Who sponsored Morgan's election? Where did he get his funding from? Are Americans, Australians and Britons now Zimbabweans? Open your eyes my friend.

7. What changed? What caused the change?

I only hope that we have more African leaders like Mugabe who will be able to stop accepting all forms of instructions and dictations from White House and No 10 Downing Street.

Sebi the US has listed us as a terrorist nation. I hope you guys that believes the Western powers are interested in helping us will continue to think that way when Nigeria is reduced to what Iraq has been reduced to today.

Funny enough, with all the conspiracy via World bank and IMF the country is still standing whereas the so called developed nations with dubious links to World bank and IMF are facing serious financial problems. So, if countries like the US, Britain etc can face dire financial problems what do you expect from an African country that is being squeezed unjustly?

bawomolo:

and that makes it normal.   good job mugabe.

another idiotic sarcastic statement. It was only a reference to the general situation on planet earth.
In other words, it wasnt mugabe's fault. Zimbabwe was far better than You Nigerians for many years under Mugabe.
But the whole fertile lands in Zimbabwe was never going to remain in the hands of the Colonial masters forever.
Venezuela did the same thing. Hungry killed few of them then.
Today, they are emerging as one of the most developing nations in the world.
Some people imposed sanctions on him because he said no to their imperialistic take over style.
In other words, Mugabe remains my hero.

Sam Milla:

another idiotic sarcastic statement. It was only a reference to the general situation on planet earth.
In other words, it wasnt mugabe's fault. Zimbabwe was far better than You Nigerians for many years under Mugabe.
But the whole fertile lands in Zimbabwe was never going to remain in the hands of the Colonial masters forever.
Venezuela did the same thing. Hungry killed few of them then.
Today, they are emerging as one of the most developing nations in the world.
Some people imposed sanctions on him because he said no to their imperialistic take over style.
In other words, Mugabe remains my hero.

yeah and the solution to this is to transfer the lands to your cronies or people with little to no clue about agriculture. Sanctions have little to do with most of the transferred/confiscated lands being uncultivated. But of course its all the west's faul.

To Mugabe supporters:

Have you noticed that in South Africa and Namibia,the proportion of land owned by whites is roughly the same proportion(if not more) than in Zimbabwe.

Yet,the black leaders in those countries have chosen to move at a slower pace in redressing the injustice.

Zimbabwean economy was built on agriculture.You do not chase away those farmers overnight and replace them with blacks who know zilch about farming and expect the economy not to collapse.

Some should mark my word,
South Africa will go through the same issue someday.
ANC is never going to rule forever.
Why do you think African super powers namely

THABO MBEKI [when he was RSA president]

President of Kenya
President of Libya
President of Nigeria and many more supported Mugabe ?

Why, ? Someone have to remind these white bastards that we are human beings.
Australia recently removed black and aborigins from the same laws that govern Animals.
Do google search. Since when did using weapons to forcefully take what belongs to another person become legal ?
Oh! i forgot, it is legal when its United States govt or Uk did it.

MrPrsdent:

To Mugabe supporters:

Have you noticed that in South Africa and Namibia,the proportion of land owned by whites is roughly the same proportion(if not more) than in Zimbabwe.

Yet,the black leaders in those countries have chosen to move at a slower pace in redressing the injustice.

Zimbabwean economy was built on agriculture.You do not chase away those farmers overnight and replace them with blacks who know zilch about farming and expect the economy not to collapse.

@US, UK & Australia paid agents,

That country A is ok with foreigners who maimed and killed their citizens taking control of their lands doesn't mean country B would be ok with that.

I careless about Mugabe but will support his every move to stop Zimbabwe from being another outpost of some greedy Western powers.

MrPrsdent:

To Mugabe supporters:

Have you noticed that in South Africa and Namibia,the proportion of land owned by whites is roughly the same proportion(if not more) than in Zimbabwe.

Yet,the black leaders in those countries have chosen to move at a slower pace in redressing the injustice.

Zimbabwean economy was built on agriculture.You do not chase away those farmers overnight and replace them with blacks who know zilch about farming and expect the economy not to collapse.

and that makes it the right thing to do ,
C'mon man, How many black people own a land in UK, US, EUROPE or even ASIA ?

How many parcel of lands does the British own in INDIA, PAKISTAN, IRAN ETC ?
They colonized the Arabs as well but they own no land there today.


THAT WAS HOW THEY FORCED THE ARABS TO FIGHT FOR THEMSELVES THROUGH KILLING YOU AND THEMSELVES. [suicide bombing]
BECAUSE THEY CANT MATCH THEM WEAPON TO WEAPON.

Then they tagged them terrorists, It has a root man

Sam Milla:

Some should mark my word,
South Africa will go through the same issue someday.
ANC is never going to rule forever.
Why do you think African super powers namely

THABO MBEKI [when he was RSA president]

President of Kenya
President of Libya
President of Nigeria and many more supported Mugabe ?

Why,  ? Someone have to remind these white bastards that we are human beings.
Australia recently removed black and aborigins from the same laws that govern Animals.
Do google search. Since when did using weapons to forcefully take what belongs to another person become legal ?
Oh! i forgot, it is legal when its United States govt or Uk did it.

No one said that the land being in white hands is right.But you do not redress centuries-old grievances by seizing lands overnight

Let me tell what other Southern African countries are doing.Those facing similar land issues:

They are gradually buying land from the whites and redistributing them on a willing seller basis. They arent seizing lands.

In that way,they do not throw away the baby with the bath water,so to say.

The whites who need money are gently prodded to sell.

This land reform was dressed in the Parliament for years incase you dont know. do some searches before coming here to post pictures of suffering people while your grand mother in the village lived in a hut and thatched roof that leaks water for years.

We are blaming the west but aren't those in charge Africans? Why can't they just say no to what the west wants and make sure whatever they are doing for their people is right? Why has Mugabe refused to let the election results decide who the leader is? He is no Hero. Look at Nelson Mandela, why didn't he cling to power? The west had a plan for South Africa but Nelson Mandela didn't let it happen. They tagged him a terrorist but gues what/ His intentions for his people were good. Mugabe is selfish and corrupt. Even during Abacha the west had plans but Abacha didn't let it. At least fuel was cheap during his time and even food was cheap too so was education. Abacha was corrupt no doubt but he knew what needed to be done. Why can't Mugabe make sure food is provided for his people instead of having them dig for gold to exchange for food.

Sam Milla:

This land reform was dressed in the Parliament for years incase you dont know. do some searches before coming here to post pictures of suffering people while your grand mother in the village lived in a hut and thatched roof that leaks water for years.

Unlike you,i have actually been to Zimbabwe on work related to what am posting here. You seem not to know much,only to blame the west for everything.

Why not blame the West for Yaradua's two-month absence from Nigeria,while you are at it.

MrPrsdent:

Unlike you,i have actually been to Zimbabwe on work related to what am posting here. You seem not to know much,only to blame the west for everything.

Why not blame the West for Yaradua's two-month absence from Nigeria,while you are at it.

you are becoming silly cos you are running out points.
being in Zimbabwe doesnt make you expert on Zimbabwe.
Arent you the same with CNN and other American propaganda tools that only come to africa to report on the bad things alone.

Sam Milla:

you are becoming silly cos you are running out points.
being in Zimbabwe doesnt make you expert on Zimbabwe.
Arent you the same with CNN and other American propaganda tools that only come to africa to report on the bad things alone.

My dia friend.You havent made any points only recycling the same old 'blame the west' jargon.

A country that gained independence 30years ago has no right to blame anyone else ,other than its leaders for their economic failures.

@Afam
"The man Mugabe remains a hero that is being dealt with by the Western powers for not carrying out their instructions."

I don't know what you mean by making general and misleading statement if the above was from you.
I have my own questions too.

Was Mugabe too helped into power by the same west that purportedly sponsored Morgan's election? (If Who sponsored Morgan's election? Where did he get his funding from? Are Americans, Australians and Britons now Zimbabweans? Open your eyes my friend.)


Why did it take Mugabe more than 25 years to realize the need for the land reform? (Mugabe was honored in Britain as a Knight when the going was good. Remember that Zimbabwe at a time had the highest literacy level in Africa and was a beautiful place.)


As at 1995 when Mugabe and other Commonwealth leaders sent Nigeria out of Commonwealth, was he an ally of the west?

Was the land reform initiative not a fallout of the disagreement with the West over his desire to cling to power at all cost?

Will you agree that his decision to transfer land ownership to the blacks was to spite the West and curry the favour of the blacks? (If
Mugabe enjoys the support of at least half of Zimbabweans based on the said elections including the military whose support is crucial in any government in any part of the world.)

Is it then fair for just one man to hold on to power perpetually? (If Libya's president has been in power since 1969 so it is not about how long but how well.)
Then, i'll recommend monarchy.

With due respect, people should endeavor to eschew chauvinistic prisms when engaging in an intellectual discourse like this.

pcicero:

@Afam
"The man Mugabe remains a hero that is being dealt with by the Western powers for not carrying out their instructions."

I don't know what you mean by making general and misleading statement if the above was from you.
I have my own questions too.

Was Mugabe too helped into power by the same west that purportedly sponsored Morgan's election? (If Who sponsored Morgan's election? Where did he get his funding from? Are Americans, Australians and Britons now Zimbabweans? Open your eyes my friend.)


Why did it take Mugabe more than 25 years to realize the need for the land reform? (Mugabe was honored in Britain as a Knight when the going was good. Remember that Zimbabwe at a time had the highest literacy level in Africa and was a beautiful place.)


As at 1995 when Mugabe and other Commonwealth leaders sent Nigeria out of Commonwealth, was he an ally of the west?

Was the land reform initiative not a fallout of the disagreement with the West over his desire to cling to power at all cost?

Will you agree that his decision to transfer land ownership to the blacks was to spite the West and curry the favour of the blacks? (If
Mugabe enjoys the support of at least half of Zimbabweans based on the said elections including the military whose support is crucial in any government in any part of the world.)

Is it then fair for just one man to hold on to power perpetually? (If Libya's president has been in power since 1969 so it is not about how long but how well.)
Then, i'll recommend monarchy.

With due respect, people should endeavor to eschew chauvinistic prisms when engaging in an intellectual discourse like this.

I rarely respond to posts on NL these days because it seems people would rather make unsubstantiated claims or false allegations and expect others to clear the air.

Referencing the first statement in your response, my statement was specific to Mugabe and the problem in Zimbabwe whereas your statement was misleading as it was non specific.

I will respond to 2 questions that you raised that have not been dealt with before now.

1. Mugabe waged a war to liberate the present day Zimbabwe from the colonialists.

2. The issue of land reform is not a fallout of any disagreement concerning willingness to cling to power. Use google please if you are not at home with the facts.

Discussions don't become intellectually based when someone claims it is, the quality of the argument based on logic, facts and common sense make them.

Please, based your comments on facts or I won't even bother to respond to them.

@afam
i saw his post and vetoed against responding to it.
i suggest you do the same.
Let him have the final say and increase his level of ignorance

When people choose to ignore arguments raised by others and rather continue to pontificate their ego blighted reasoning, then I'll humbly stick to my ignorance. Afterall, ignorance is bliss.

Sam Milla:

@afam
i saw his post and vetoed against responding to it.
i suggest you do the same.
Let him have the final say and increase his level of ignorance
[/quote

I'll not spare words for you. Where are you from? I bet you are ashamed to disclose the banana republic that threw up an ape like you. Just who are you to use the word "veto"? You are coarse, arrogant and a nincompoop.