Actually Judas was saved by Christ but something happened......- covetousness. Sin comes in little by little by little. He had the thought in his heart and Satan assisted him. He did not reject the devil. He didn't have peace and pardon. Jesus did not force him but fell by his own transgression-
Apostle who became an apostate. Believer who became a betrayer, Convert who became covetous, Disciple who became devilish, Externally righteous but extremely rottened, Friend but a foe, Grace but fell to grass, Heaven candidate but became captive of hell, Instructed but incorrigible, Just but judged, King's acquittance but a kissing adversary, Leader but became lost, Minister but loved Mammon, Negotiator but Negligent, Opportunistic but obstinate, Preacher but a pervert, Quiet fellow but with questionable character, Reaper but became a reprobate, Schemer but sold to Satan, Teacher but treacherous, Used but of no use, Vulture and a violator, Watchman but a wolf, Xpelled after being exalted, Yoked to Satan after yielding to Jesus, Zealous for money but zero in ministry.
There are 3 stages to consider in Christianity:- 1, when you start Hearing The Word; 2, when you start Following The Word and 3, when you start Doing The Word. At the 3rd stage, you start being in The Purpose of God. Henceforth your Salvation becomes in tact.
Actually Judas was saved by Christ but something happened......- covetousness. Sin comes in little by little by little. He had the thought in his heart and Satan assisted him. He did not reject the devil. He didn't have peace and pardon. Jesus did not force him but fell by his own transgression-
Apostle who became an apostate. Believer who became a betrayer, Convert who became covetous, Disciple who became devilish, Externally righteous but extremely rottened, Friend but a foe, Grace but fell to grass, Heaven candidate but became captive of hell, Instructed but incorrigible, Just but judged, King's acquittance but a kissing adversary, Leader but became lost, Minister but loved Mammon, Negotiator but Negligent, Opportunistic but obstinate, Preacher but a pervert, Quiet fellow but with questionable character, Reaper but became a reprobate, Schemer but sold to Satan, Teacher but treacherous, Used but of no use, Vulture and a violator, Watchman but a wolf, Xpelled after being exalted, Yoked to Satan after yielding to Jesus, Zealous for money but zero in ministry. ifficult At this week's bible study.
The question is,could judas have escaped that?.....,No!......judas' judgment was as a result of him being destined for that doom,to fulfill the scriptures,but it is just,enough because it came from God.......,but if you find that difficult to believe,Judas himself was a thief,and he himself had an evil heart to do evil. God calls people,some to Glory,others for wrath.........and can a clay say to the potter why have you made me so?......,woe unto the man who strives with his maker,or can a man say unto his father,why have you given birth to me?.......and if you have problem with all these,know for sure no man deserves God's blessings or mercy,for all exempting none have fallen short of that and therefore justifies God to do as He pleases,to have mercy on whom he chooses,not of him that runneth,neither of him that willeth.To wrap it up,God has made all things,even evil for His Glory and it is left for the man that will question His will.
......judas' judgment was as a result of him being destined for that doom,to fulfill the scriptures,but it is just,enough because it came from God.......,
Would God be just for determining that some folks are destined for hell and others for heaven due to no cause of theirs?
God calls people,some to Glory,others for wrath.........and can a clay say to the potter why have you made me so?......,woe unto the man who strives with his maker,or can a man say unto his father,why have you given birth to me?.......and if you have problem with all these,know for sure no man deserves God's blessings or mercy,for all exempting none have fallen short of that and therefore justifies God to do as He pleases,to have mercy on whom he chooses,not of him that runneth,neither of him that willeth.To wrap it up,God has made all things,even evil for His Glory and it is left for the man that will question His will.
This is why I think the perspective of Calvinism is not biblically correct.
Would God be just for determining that some folks are destined for hell and others for heaven due to no cause of theirs?
He was coveteous and could have genuinely repented if he wanted to.
This is why I think the perspective of Calvinism is not biblically correct.
Lemme ask,has any happenings in the world ever deviated from God's plan,or has God ever made a mistake,was lucifer created for any purpose other than what he is now?
Lemme ask,has any happenings in the world ever deviated from God's plan,or has God ever made a mistake,was lucifer created for any purpose other than what he is now?
You should remember that God created us as free moral agents with responsibilities.
Since this is a major theology argument, how about I settle it? Here is a e-mail I sent to someone who ask me the question. **Now let's see how many osas believers deny what is clearly written.**
This is why I left the belief because I got tired of having to ignore verses to make it work.
**E-mail Quote: Here's something to think about: In the Bible it says Jesus will never leave or forsake us, right? But nowhere does it say **we** cannot leave or forsake Him.
When you are saved are you not in the Book of life? Revelation 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
So what happens when you get removed from the book of life. Do you keep salvation or lose it?
Revelation 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
There are 2 ways to have your name can be removed from the book of life. Take away, and blot. An ink blot cannot be written over so that means you lost you salvation forever aka a unforgivable sin. Take away means you can come back. Take away means because you abused grace as a ticket to sin, there is no more grace. And once grace is removed the next sin you commit you lose salvation.
Is there a verse that specifically say the saved can lose salvation? Yes
James 5:19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; 20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
1) Brethren = believer. 2) If any of you = believer. 3) Err from the truth = believe a lie or put another god like money etc... before God. 4) and one convert him = conformation that they lost their salvation because the need to be reconverted. 5) save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins = being brought back into the Body of Christ.
In order to make osas work **by itself**, all of these verses and more are 100% ignored. That is what I did not like. Now do you like ignoring verses? And by the way you never did prove the goats were unsaved sinners. You only made an excuse for not being able to. And you never did prove being in the hands of Christ = being saved when the Bible makes it clear that only being in the body = being saved.
Are you satisfied with making excuses and ignoring verses? Because if you are still going to cling to this after I have clearly showed you it's not true, there will be no excuse when you stand before the Lord. Are you really willing to risk going to Hell over this? **End of quote**
Be warned, if you start acting like the fool under this post you will get flicked off the page. And I do not care which side you are on. If you cannot discuss this and be a good representation of Christ while doing it, here's what you need to do. At the top of the post a little to the right there is a little thingy that looks like this > except it points downward. Click on that and there is an option to unfollow post you click that and you won;t get any notifications. The go back in and click to hide post and you'll never see it again.
orunto27: There are 3 stages to consider in Christianity:- 1, when you start Hearing The Word; 2, when you start Following The Word and 3, when you start Doing The Word. At the 3rd stage, you start being in The Purpose of God. Henceforth your Salvation becomes in tact.
"IF" a Christian can lose his salvation then maybe what he had was a 'potential' for salvation. The Bible God of JUSTICE ( please note that word) cannot execute something in his justice and then turn round to CANCEL it. Maybe some other god or man may but not the God of righteousness.
Maybe what those of you who believe in loss of salvation should actually be looking at is: "Can a Potentially Saved Christian End Up not Being Eventually Saved?" Because if one can end up not being saved then we cannot say he was saved in the first place. He only had the potential to be ultimately saved.
Jehovah cannot give a guarantee and go back on his word - NEVER! He cannot give an unconditional GIFT and then turn round to SNATCH it back because of some unmet 'conditions'. A gift is NOT a reward. Failure to understand this, in addition to equating misunderstood words and phrases in Scripture to mean "SALVATION" has been the bane of those of you who think man must fulfil some conditions before he can be sure he'll be "saved"
"IF" a Christian can lose his salvation then maybe what he had was a 'potential' for salvation. The Bible God of JUSTICE ( please note that word) cannot execute something in his justice and then turn round to CANCEL it. Maybe some other god or man may but not the God of righteousness.
Maybe what those of you who believe in loss of salvation should actually be looking at is: "Can a Potentially Saved Christian End Up not Being Eventually Saved?" Because if one can end up not being saved then we cannot say he was saved in the first place. He only had the potential to be ultimately saved.
Jehovah cannot give a guarantee and go back on his word - NEVER! He cannot give an unconditional GIFT and then turn round to SNATCH it back because of some unmet 'conditions'. A gift is NOT a reward. Failure to understand this, in addition to equating misunderstood words and phrases in Scripture to mean "SALVATION" has been the bane of those of you who think man must fulfil some conditions before he can be sure he'll be "saved"
Read the verses quoted below and draw your own conclusion:
"For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live" (Romans 8:13).
Are you saying that it is not possible for a Christian to live after the flesh and die in sin?
Here are other conditions and warnings to believers:
"But Christ as a son over His own house, whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end" (Hebrews 3:6).
This verse seems to be saying that the believer that doesn't hold fast to the end will lose his/her salvation.
"Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end" (Hebrews 3:12-14).
Is it not clear from these verses that a Christian can lose his faith through unbelief and the deceitfulness of sin and that we see the need to consciously be stedfast till the end for us to receive the final salvation?
Read the verses quoted below and draw your own conclusion:
You, as a 'veteran', should know that individual verses NEED TO BE understood in context. - what does it mean to "live after the flesh" and "die" in Romans 8:13? - what does the "house we are" mean in Hebrews 3:6? - what does "made partakers of Christ" mean in Hebrews 3:12-14?
If there is "the final salvation" like you put it then it means no one, not even you, can, in all honesty, claim to be saved now or to have salvation now since if at a future time you cease to consciously be steadfast you may lose out from being saved.
It means you do not have the assurance of that "final salvation" since it depends on your works and conscious effort to "hold fast" till the end.
What you are doing now is working for your salvation. To you Christ's SUBSTITUTIONARY work is insufficient and needs to be filled up by your works.
A Christian who does not boast in the death of Christ ALONE is telling God to accept him on the basis of his best works. Such a Christian does not even begin to understand the ABSOLUTE righteous standard of God's holiness. NO ONE can attain it. ONLY Jesus Christ met the criteria.
You, as a 'veteran', should know that individual verses NEED TO BE understood in context. - what does it mean to "live after the flesh" and "die" in Romans 8:13? - what does the "house we are" mean in Hebrews 3:6? - what does "made partakers of Christ" mean in Hebrews 3:12-14?
If there is "the final salvation" like you put it then it means no one, not even you, can, in all honesty, claim to be saved now or to have salvation now since if at a future time you cease to consciously be steadfast you may lose out from being saved.
It means you do not have the assurance of that "final salvation" since it depends on your works and conscious effort to "hold fast" till the end.
What you are doing now is working for your salvation. To you Christ's SUBSTITUTIONARY work is insufficient and needs to be filled up by your works.
A Christian who does not boast in the death of Christ ALONE is telling God to accept him on the basis of his best works. Such a Christian does not even begin to understand the ABSOLUTE righteous standard of God's holiness. NO ONE can attain it. ONLY Jesus Christ met the criteria.
Noah's Ark is a picture of Christ our initial salvation. Those who entered the Ark were saved from the coming flood. If by any chance some of those saved in the Ark chose to jump out into the waters will you say that they are still saved because the entered the Ark in the first place? If you jump our you are on your own. The condition is that: "If you continue in My Word."
"Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on Him, If ye continue in My word, then are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free" (John 8:31-32).
That is to say that on-going obedient belief in His Word leads to true freedom in Christ. The moment you stop believing, you are on your own.
Noah's Ark is a picture of Christ our initial salvation. Those who entered the Ark were saved from the coming flood. If by any chance some of those saved in the Ark chose to jump out into the waters will you say that they are still saved because the entered the Ark in the first place? If you jump our you are on your own. The condition is that: "If you continue in My Word."
"Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on Him, If ye continue in My word, then are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free" (John 8:31-32).
That is to say that on-going obedient belief in His Word leads to true freedom in Christ. The moment you stop believing, you are on your own.
John 8:31 is more of a verse for eternal security. Are you saying no one is indeed Christ's disciple now,since the end is not come? Jesus there knew some among the Jews who claimed to have believed didn't believe from the heart(was only lip service),so to Him there was no point calling them out,if they had indeed believed they would continue in His word,continuance would test their genuineness. So it is not that if you continue in God's you'll be,rather you're. A true disciple will continue,a phony disciple won't. And one can be rest assured that he will continue in God's word if he has believed from the heart,if it was God who worked faith in him and not of his own will,choice or decision. This is because,if it was God who started it,He would complete it,and not that the fellow will continue by his own effort. Examine John 2:23-24 and 1 John 2:19.
Noah's Ark is a picture of Christ our initial salvation. Those who entered the Ark were saved from the coming flood. If by any chance some of those saved in the Ark chose to jump out into the waters will you say that they are still saved because the entered the Ark in the first place? If you jump our you are on your own. The condition is that: "If you continue in My Word."
"Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on Him, If ye continue in My word, then are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free" (John 8:31-32).
That is to say that on-going obedient belief in His Word leads to true freedom in Christ. The moment you stop believing, you are on your own.
1. It was God who shut Noah and his family in when they entered the ark. Does that tell us anything? 2. Do you personally have assurance of that "final salvation" ?
1. It was God who shut Noah and his family in when they entered the ark. Does that tell us anything? 2. Do you personally have assurance of that "final salvation" ?
Does that mean Noah couldn't have jumped out if he wanted to? And yes, I do have the assurance of the 'final salvation' as long as I do not jump out of the ship (Ark) before it reaches it's final destination.
Does that mean Noah couldn't have jumped out if he wanted to? And yes, I do have the assurance of the 'final salvation' as long as I do not jump out of the ship (Ark) before it reaches it's final destination.
Noah was KEPT by the power of God until it was safe for him to get out of the ark. 1 Peter 1:5 applies to us the same way.
The words "as long as" negate your "yes, I do". Since there is a condition attached to your "final salvation" there can be no true assurance: Don't you think? It's just an ASSUMPTION you live by not a definite ASSURANCE.
What Jesus Christ promised is "I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand." The "no one can snatch them" means NO ONE. It is all inclusive. There's no exception.
Anything other than this is not the GOOD NEWS that Jesus brought. The good news is that every believer is "sealed for the day of redemption"(Ephesians 4:30).
The righteousness or right standing that qualifies us to be with God in eternity is not attained by man's efforts whatever the nature of those efforts are. That right standing is IMPUTED by God ALONE. Man is TOTALLY excluded. That is what the Apostles lived and died for. Anything else is not the Christianity they preached.
Noah was KEPT by the power of God until it was safe for him to get out of the ark. 1 Peter 1:5 applies to us the same way.
The words "as long as" negate your "yes, I do". Since there is a condition attached to your "final salvation" there can be no true assurance: Don't you think? It's just an ASSUMPTION you live by not a definite ASSURANCE.
What Jesus Christ promised is "I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand." The "no one can snatch them" means NO ONE. It is all inclusive. There's no exception.
Anything other than this is not the GOOD NEWS that Jesus brought. The good news is that every believer is "sealed for the day of redemption"(Ephesians 4:30).
The righteousness or right standing that qualifies us to be with God in eternity is not attained by man's efforts whatever the nature of those efforts are. That right standing is IMPUTED by God ALONE. Man is TOTALLY excluded. That is what the Apostles lived and died for. Anything else is not the Christianity they preached.
Let's look at some conditions attached to your final salvation, shall we?
"But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end" (Hebrews 3:6).
"Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end" (Hebrews 3:12-14).
"Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, If ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain" (1 Corinthians 15:1-2).
"For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning" (2 Peter 2:20)
