aletheia:

@OP
The prosperity of the gospel is not the materialistic false gospel that appeals so much to the masses today. Consider this verses:

Perhaps you will tell me that "blessed" implies have material possessions. What of this scriptures then?
And these:

Do you think that the gospel is a means to materialism? Do you think the reason Jesus of Nazareth died was in order for you to have a bigger bank balance or a new car? You are sadly misled and mistaken.

May the LORD grant you grace to see these things?

If it is God's will for us to be healed, then it is God's will for us to be rich.
The  first thing we should ask ourselves is ; What is the definition of the GOSPEL. The Gospel means good news.

Luke 4:18
    The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor, ,

What  was Jesus refering to here as the poor? was it spiritualy poor people or materially? The GK word ptochos; refers to paupers, beggars. He has brought a message to liberate them from poverty into wealth.
There is no middle ground. It is either you are rich or poor. The average man is still a poor man. because he cant help anyone. One of the ministry of a pastor is to perfect the saints.Paul was instructed by christ to deliver the saints into their inheritance.

Acts 26:18
    To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

2 Cor. 6:10
    As sorrowful, yet alway rejoicing; as poor, yet making many rich; as having nothing, and yet possessing all things.

2 Cor. 8:9
For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.

A christian does not have to labour after material things, but he need to understand his rights and priviledges in Christ.that all things belong to him

1 Cor. 3:21
Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are yours;

The only thing God will be against is a man becoming materialistic by his inability to give out or beign lifted in pride.

1 Tim. 6:17
Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy;

"he gives us richly all things to enjoy"

Deut. 8:18
But thou shalt remember the Lord thy God: for it is he that giveth thee power to get wealth, that he may establish his covenant which he sware unto thy fathers, as it is this day.

The message of average or poverty is of the devil. He didnt call us to suffer but to have dominion. If any man suffers now , he suffers due to his ignorance.

Psalm 35:27
Let them shout for joy, and be glad, that favour my righteous cause: yea, let them say continually, Let the Lord be magnified, which hath pleasure in the prosperity of his servant.

I begin to despair, but here follows a rebuttal using the scriptures as I see you are playing around with words (it is clear to me that you equate the gospel to being materially wealthy i.e having money, owo, ego, kudi).

Joagbaje:

If it is God's will for us to be healed, then it is God's will for us to be rich.

You imply that a Christian ought never to fall ill:
1. 2 Co 12:7 So to keep me from becoming conceited because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, a thorn was given me in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to harass me, to keep me from becoming conceited.
2. Gal 4:13-14 You know it was because of a bodily ailment that I preached the gospel to you at first, and though my condition was a trial to you, you did not scorn or despise me, but received me as an angel of God, as Christ Jesus.
3. 1 Tim 5:23 (No longer drink only water, but use a little wine for the sake of your stomach and your frequent ailments.)

So by your understanding of the gospel Paul and Timothy were not really Christians since they had ailments.

Joagbaje:

The  first thing we should ask ourselves is ; What is the definition of the GOSPEL. The Gospel means good news.

Luke 4:18
    The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor, ,

What  was Jesus refering to here as the poor? was it spiritualy poor people or materially? The GK word ptochos; refers to paupers, beggars. He has brought a message to liberate them from poverty into wealth.
There is no middle ground. It is either you are rich or poor. The average man is still a poor man. because he cant help anyone. One of the ministry of a pastor is to perfect the saints.Paul was instructed by christ to deliver the saints into their inheritance.

So their inheritance is here on earth?

1. Mat 6:19 "Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal,
2. Mat 6:24 "No one can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money.
3. Heb 11:13-16 These all died in faith, not having received the things promised, but having seen them and greeted them from afar, and having acknowledged that they were strangers and exiles on the earth. For people who speak thus make it clear that they are seeking a homeland. If they had been thinking of that land from which they had gone out, they would have had opportunity to return. But as it is, they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared for them a city.

Luk 4:18 "The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim liberty to the captives and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty those who are oppressed,

How about this:

Mat 5:3 "Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

The problem is that every time you see the word "rich" in the bible $$$ signs begin to flash in your mind

So the good news of Jesus of Nazareth to the poor is that they can have more money than Bill Gates? How well the bible describes these times we live in.

2 Pe 2:15-20 Forsaking the right way, they have gone astray. They have followed the way of Balaam, the son of Beor, who loved gain from wrongdoing, but was rebuked for his own transgression; a speechless donkey spoke with human voice and restrained the prophet's madness. These are waterless springs and mists driven by a storm. For them the gloom of utter darkness has been reserved. For, speaking loud boasts of folly, they entice by sensual passions of the flesh those who are barely escaping from those who live in error. They promise them freedom, but they themselves are slaves of corruption. For whatever overcomes a person, to that he is enslaved. For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first.

1 Tim 6:3-11 If anyone teaches a different doctrine and does not agree with the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ and the teaching that accords with godliness, he is puffed up with conceit and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy craving for controversy and for quarrels about words, which produce envy, dissension, slander, evil suspicions, and constant friction among people who are depraved in mind and deprived of the truth, imagining that godliness is a means of gain. Now there is great gain in godliness with contentment, for we brought nothing into the world, and we cannot take anything out of the world. But if we have food and clothing, with these we will be content. But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation, into a snare, into many senseless and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils. It is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pangs. But as for you, O man of God, flee these things. Pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, steadfastness, gentleness.

This is the gospel summarized:
1. Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
2. Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
3. Heb 9:27 And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment,
4. Isa 53:5-6 But he was wounded for our transgressions; he was crushed for our iniquities; upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace, and with his stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned--every one--to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all.
5. Rom 5:8 but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

And

1Co 15:1-4 Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand, and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you--unless you believed in vain. For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures,

Here is a warning for all proponents of the "gospel of prosperity":

Rev 3:14-19 "And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: 'The words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of God's creation. I know your works: you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were either cold or hot! So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth. For you say, I am rich, I have prospered, and I need nothing, not realizing that you are wretched, pitiable, poor, blind, and naked. I counsel you to buy from me gold refined by fire, so that you may be rich, and white garments so that you may clothe yourself and the shame of your unclothedness may not be seen, and salve to anoint your eyes, so that you may see. Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline, so be zealous and repent."

Is Jesus asking the Laodiceans to buy physical gold from him?

Joagbaje:

The first thing we should ask ourselves is ; What is the definition of the GOSPEL. The Gospel means good news.

Luke 4:18
The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor, ,

What was Jesus refering to here as the poor? was it spiritualy poor people or materially? The GK word ptochos; refers to paupers, beggars. He has brought a message to liberate them from poverty into wealth.

Na wa ooh. so Jesus went through all that wahala including sacrificing himself on the cross just to let us know we can really hit it big time. Was it really necessary? afterall God's people were receiving their blessings in the old testament just like that. Maybe man was so dumb not figure this out by himself or probably forgot, thereby necessitating the need for the Lord coming to remind us.

Folks who have never seen enough money are always looking to hit it big time which I thought was the thug way until I started looking closely at SOME of these pentecostal churches/preachers.

Real Christians PRAY against that extra dollar that could block their whole salvation and money hungry Christians pray for wealth/prosperity and tell you they have it figured out, na wa for waec ooo.

Last time I checked, Solomon NEVER prayed for RICHES! Correct me if I am wrong.

aletheia:

I begin to despair, but here follows a rebuttal using the scriptures as I see you are playing around with words (it is clear to me that you equate the gospel to being materially wealthy i.e having money, owo, ego, kudi).
You imply that a Christian ought never to fall ill:
1. 2 Co 12:7 So to keep me from becoming conceited because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, a thorn was given me in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to harass me, to keep me from becoming conceited.
2. Gal 4:13-14 You know it was because of a bodily ailment that I preached the gospel to you at first, and though my condition was a trial to you, you did not scorn or despise me, but received me as an angel of God, as Christ Jesus.
3. 1 Tim 5:23 (No longer drink only water, but use a little wine for the sake of your stomach and your frequent ailments.)

So by your understanding of the gospel Paul and Timothy were not really Christians since they had ailments.

So their inheritance is here on earth?

1. Mat 6:19 "Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal,
2. Mat 6:24 "No one can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money.
3. Heb 11:13-16 These all died in faith, not having received the things promised, but having seen them and greeted them from afar, and having acknowledged that they were strangers and exiles on the earth. For people who speak thus make it clear that they are seeking a homeland. If they had been thinking of that land from which they had gone out, they would have had opportunity to return. But as it is, they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared for them a city.

How about this:
The problem is that every time you see the word "rich" in the bible $$$ signs begin to flash in your mind

So the good news of Jesus of Nazareth to the poor is that they can have more money than Bill Gates? How well the bible describes these times we live in.

This is the gospel summarized:
1. Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
2. Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
3. Heb 9:27 And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment,
4. Isa 53:5-6 But he was wounded for our transgressions; he was crushed for our iniquities; upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace, and with his stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned--every one--to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all.
5. Rom 5:8 but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

And
Here is a warning for all proponents of the "gospel of prosperity":
Is Jesus asking the Laodiceans to buy physical gold from him?

2 Cor. 12:7
    And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

Paul's thorn in the flesh was not sickness oo. God would not give his Children what Christ has taken away.The word  thorn has to do with afflictions and persecutions, .It was a language they were used to.

Numbers 33:55
    But if ye will not drive out the inhabitants of the land from before you; then it shall come to pass, that those which ye let remain of them shall be pricks in your eyes, and thorns in your sides, and shall vex you in the land wherein ye dwell.

Paul talks from time to time what his thorns were.His many afflictions.


2 Cor. 11:23-27
    Are they ministers of Christ? (I speak as a fool) I am more; in labours more abundant, in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequent, in deaths oft. [24] Of the Jews five times received I forty stripes save one. [25] Thrice was I beaten with rods, once was I stoned, thrice I suffered shipwreck, a night and a day I have been in the deep; [26] In journeyings often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils by mine own countrymen, in perils by the heathen, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren; [27] In weariness and painfulness, in watchings often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and unclothedness.

If Timothy was sick. It was based on his faith. There is no automatic prosperity or automatic immunity from sickness. The jst shall live by his faith". that is why a man has to be so rich in the word of God to reign above sickness , poverty and death.You have the responsibility to resist the devil.

Ephes. 6:11
    Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

ogajim:

Folks who have never seen enough money are always looking to hit it big time which I thought was the thug way until I started looking closely at SOME of these pentecostal churches/preachers.

Real Christians PRAY against that extra dollar that could block their whole salvation and money hungry Christians pray for wealth/prosperity and tell you they have it figured out, na wa for waec ooo.

Last time I checked, Solomon NEVER prayed for RICHES! Correct me if I am wrong.

Dont make mistakes, a christian makes money to have more than enough to reach others.Not for te purpose of eating with golden spoon and ivory bed. A christian does not need to pray for money ,he is blessed already. all he needs do is to exercise his authority and dominion over lack.

Deut. 8:18
But thou shalt remember the Lord thy God: for it is he that giveth thee power to get wealth, that he may establish his covenant which he sware unto thy fathers, as it is this day.

Solomon didnt have to pray for riches ,he understood the principles of making riches. He gives to God and embrace wisdom

Proverbs 3:9-10
Honour the Lord with thy substance, and with the firstfruits of all thine increase: [10] So shall thy barns be filled with plenty, and thy presses shall burst out with new wine.

@joagbaje

Did God tell Adam that dust he came from and to dust he will return?

saharachic:

@joagbaje

Did God tell Adam that dust he came from and to dust he will return?

Get to the point. There are two Adams . Adam the flesh and Adam the spirit. The flesh goes to dust but the spirit does not go to dust, but i dont know your point here

The Gospel is not against prosperity and comfort. God has promised to supply our needs. The gospel is against a lust for excess.

The Gospel must be preached to the ends of the earth before Jesus comes. That is not going to happen free of charge, hence it only makes sense that God brings riches the way of those who will finance his work.

The gospel is not against prosperity. The christian prosper so he can be a blessing not for selfish reasons. We need to preach the gospel to the ends of the earth, through television, radio, internet and we cant use the blood of Jesus to pay. Money is a tool in the hand of the christian, a poor christian can only preach as far as he can treck but a rich christian can stay in Nigeria and win thousands of people in other nations with his money.

Joagbaje:

Get to the point. There are two Adams . Adam the flesh and Adam the spirit. The flesh goes to dust but the spirit does not go to dust, but i dont know your point here

Dont be hypocritical. we both know you dont get to the point sometimes.

Another question: Has God ever failed in any of his words through out the bible?

I

saharachic:

Dont be hypocritical. we both know you dont get to the point sometimes.

Another question: Has God ever failed in any of his words through out the bible?

Im not hypocritical, I just want you to get down to the point, because i dont really understand where you are going.If i know where you are going ,i will know how to answer. But if i should assume i know what you are saying.

Has God failed in his words ? No never. But Has the word of God failed to come to pass? Yes!

The preachers of this generation have made us to understand that the more money you give to the pastor or to the church the more blessing you get. WRONG.

They introduced sawing and reaping, the seed is MONEY, very funny. Some people even saw money seed to get husband and protection, this is the same practice of babalawo, that is what the church of this age have turned into. Jesus said seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and every other thing shall be added unto you. When we do this, then God will take care of our other concerns. This is prosperity when God himself takes over what concerns us.

To me this is the total message of prosperity anything outside this is for selfish interest and God is not involved in a thing like that.

GBAM

I couldn't agree more my brother.

@ joagbaje

would you say Gen 3:19 is still a valid judgement?

Are you sure you are not a false teacher, no follower of Christ?

Joagbaje:

IIm not hypocritical, I just want you to get down to the point, because i dont really understand where you are going.If i know where you are going ,i will know how to answer. But if i should assume i know what you are saying.

Has God failed in his words ? No never. But Has the word of God failed to come to pass? Yes!

According to you, the word of God has failed to come to pass.

Isa 55:8-11 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts. For as the rain and the snow come down from heaven and do not return there but water the earth, making it bring forth and sprout, giving seed to the sower and bread to the eater, so shall my word be that goes out from my mouth; it shall not return to me empty, but it shall accomplish that which I purpose, and shall succeed in the thing for which I sent it.

Psa 138:2 I bow down toward your holy temple and give thanks to your name for your steadfast love and your faithfulness, for you have exalted above all things your name and your word.

Isa 40:8 The grass withers, the flower fades, but the word of our God will stand forever.

A warning for you:

Mat 12:36-37 I tell you, on the day of judgment people will give account for every careless word they speak, for by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.

saharachic:

@ joagbaje

would you say Gen 3:19 is still a valid judgement?

Genesis 3:19
In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
You should learn to make yourself clear. The verse deals with several things , so which one of them are you refering to?

But if I will give you straight answer for all. the answer is YES/NO. It is valid for the world but not for Christians

aletheia:

According to you, the word of God has failed to come to pass.

aletheia:

Are you sure you are not a false teacher, no follower of Christ?
According to you, the word of God has failed to come to pass.

A warning for you:

I answered saharachic that way because of her shabby questions without details or explanation. But the truth of the matter as I said earlier is God never fail in his promises. But the word of God may not always necesarily come to pass. Let me explain. God told Moses to bring the Isrealites out of Egypt  and take them into the promised land. Moses only brought them out but didnt take them in. God already promise Isreal victory over the enemy even if they had chariots of iron but it didt come to pass.


Joshua 17:18
    But the mountain shall be thine; for it is a wood, and thou shalt cut it down: and the outgoings of it shall be thine: for thou shalt drive out the Canaanites, though they have iron chariots, and though they be strong.

Judges 1:19
    And the Lord was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.

Elisha prophesied that Israel would win the battle against Moab in 2kings 3 but they lost the battle ,When king of Moab offered his son on the wall .There are several issues in bible  both promises and truths that didnt come to  pass.  Not that God failed but man fail to receive. There are legal truths and vital truths. Legally God has done all he needs to do, but to make it a vital reality, there are steps of faith a man must take to activate the blessing or walk in their realities. Such as giving,praying, walking in love etc. . So if if you just ask saccastically , "has the word of God ever failed?" Yes! it has, in the lives of those who would not act accordingly period.


Mark 16:17
    And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.


So many still argue over tongues and healing ,How can the prophecy be fulfilled?
Jesus said Lazarus would not die  but he died!

John 11:4
    When Jesus heard that, he said, This sickness is not unto death,

But thank God Jesus would not give up on his faith ,even though Lazzarus died ,he refused to recognise it and called him out as a living person.