GeorgeD1:
so, revisiting that same calculation above and being careful to leave every other parameter intact, it would look like this:

30ltrs in 1 wk is roughly 10 litres/day.
1month = 300litrs
at the present pump price of 145naira/ltr (up from 65 naira per litre), it becomes: 300*145= 43,500 naira (instead of 19,500 naira) spent for fuel alone in a month.
and in a year that amounts to: 43,500*12 = 522,000 naira

and of course if the fuel pump price can increase by about 123% in just six years, we can only just imagine what the next 25yrs will
look like.

bottom line: there is never a wrong time to go solar!

You have been greatly missed in the house, conspicuously. Welcome back my teacher!

kiekie1:


Axpert, Ipower etc it all depends on exact load u wanna power up on this hybrid inverters ... It might not look as rugged as stand alone pure sine wave inverters which comfortably power 1.5hp water pump, air condition (1hp /1.5hp)electric iron,microwave, hair dryer etc (one at a time) ... If your max load is just fridges or freezers & microwave , hybrid inverter will serve for that . Thanks

#Note: below is an attached pic of Ipower 5kva 48v hybrid inverter which can't comfortably power some of the loads I listed above (one load at a time e.g water pump or electric iron, split ac since client has bout 3.5kw array).. Client got tired of blown mosfets and replaced hybrid inverter with 5kva power star light 4000w 48v stand alone inverter ..Client even got discouraged on hybrid inbuilt solar charging algorithm , he used an optional morningstar pwm before pulling down hybrid system to a stand alone heavy duty inverter system .. He is currently on an ep solar 60a mppt ..

I strongly agree with your exertion here, Kiekie. Standalone inverters have better surge handling capabilities in the range of 300% of their nominal power ratings. So, when there will be need to power loads like fridges, freezers or AC's, standalone inverters should be of choice.

GeorgeD1:


guys,
this post was made by my humble self on the 4th of august 2010 - more than six years to the day (ref. page 2 of this thread). looking back now, I can't help feeling a particular sense of satisfaction that I made the right choice to go solar

chief George welcome back. Hope all is well. You just went AWOL on the forum. Anyway a pleasure to have you back. Any updates of your system?

donmajor2:

Not so fast! I think you have good solar components out there. You need to be more explicit on what you actually mean by energy management. There is much you can do with programmable timer switches and automatic transfer switches.
With the simple setup in the image below, I supply power to my load based on time of the day and availability of PHCN power supply.

Oh I have voltage switches, relays, contactors...
They switch my backup loads to PHCN based on battery voltage.

I had plans to get a timer to knock off PHCN from 6am to 6pm. What then happens on cloudy days when production is low and consumption high and one of the voltage switches kicks in?

They'd switch to PHCN, but the timer would have already taken it offline!
Except for my booster pump, kitchen tools and Laundry, the backup loads sit comfortably south of 700w daily. Else they hover around 4kw.

So by mid morning, batteries are floating. Pv production gets throttled and wasted. I have thought of introducing a contactor to switch my main loads to inverter during the day once batteries hit absorb or float to maximise self consumption.

Or get a grid interactive inverter.(I get about 20 hours of PHCN daily) The new wahala would then be reconfiguration of my Pv array, and ac coupling with the magnum.

What I want is to maximise self consumption. Grid supply in my hood is very good. I get high estimated bills from them yet I have a multimillion naira RE system always on float!

Sorry for the long winded post, just waking up.

[s][/s]

battleaxe:

@ilovedsun
Thanks.
So I assume I can only use 6 batteries let's say I was on a 24v system? But for a 48v system, I'm constrained to multiples of four 12v batteries?
Can you suggest a single point shop where I can get these brands? The problem is that most vendors have what the market wants, and not necessarily the best brands.
A one point shop with a connection diagram and list of items would be ideal but we're not totally there yet. Any advice is welcomed.
Thanks.

Correct, 3 banks with two 12 V (=24V) each; and x banks with four 12 V batteries (=48V) each. It depends on the system size. If you have big loads, e.g. 5 kVA, I'd prefer 48 V instead of 24 V, so that your Amps are lower and therefore cabling gauge is smaller. But what is more important is the total capacity (Ah). It should be big enough that you stay >50% DoD.
(The disadvantage of four batteries in series is the maintenance in terms of balancing in the future when the batteries age. Batteries should be run with the same temperature.)

Sorry, I don't know a single-point-of-sales shop in Lagos, that have premium stuff on stock. (It's quite expensive to put them on stock. And in order to configure programmable inverters you need some sort of training.) But I like the idea of having a single-point-of-sales shop in Lagos, if there is a need. But let me double check where to get SMA et al.

Battery management system is a function. If the Hybrid inverter has a connector for battery temperature sensor, then that's a good indication it does take the temperature into calculation. If not, then there are separate products available. This is a nice to have product to prolongue the battery life.

I could provide a general connection diagram for the house. But to build up a list of items (=bill of material) for your specific needs it will take some time and this is value-added service that good solar installers will provide to you, because this is some engineering design service. (That's why a solar package is a little bit more expensive than the sum of each individual items, right?!)
The output would be:
* calculation of wiring gauge depending on length/distance and electric requirements
* setup of the connection box (many don't use any box),
* choosing the right switches/breakers/fuses/surge protectors,
* correct earthing/grounding
* And then what is time consuming: if brand A is not available, where to get brand B, etc.
Is the alternative good enough? i.e. reading datasheets/specs and judging if it's good enough or not.
You see many pictures of solar system installations here. In my opinion some are good, some are not so good and do not comply to international codes.
...

@all Hybrid inverter owners:

Hello,
has anyone of you put an oscilloscope to his Hybrid inverter's AC output? What is the quality of the sine wave?
Can you please make a picture and upload it here?

Since poor quality/non-sine wave can destroy electric engines in the long run, i.e. German Liebherr fridge does not provide warranty when run on inverters. Or water pump should run with digital frequency converters, that provide pure sine-wave.
So, the quality of inverter you get is what you pay...

abunafiu,
donmajor2,
dunka,
et al,

thanks guys. indeed its been quite a while. its really exciting seeing all the new developments happening
on the thread and so many new members getting hooked on solar.

ever since the price of fuel sky-rocketed, its been my desire to revisit that calculation I did in 2010 and I
I was quite surprised at the outcome. what a difference six years makes.

on a side note, my system is still firing on all cylinders with no issues at all - discounting weather.
when I look back at all the money spent and this calculation, I realize that in six years, my system has
more than paid for itself in terms of cost-savings alone. right now, what I'm using is free energy!

Guys.... Solar wish list

1. 12 units of 255W Canadian Solar Panels
2. Solar Charge Controller: Advice please?

3. Prag 5kVA, 48V
Option 1: http://www.buyright.biz/index.php?module=product&event=viewdetail&pid=128
Option 2: http://www.buyright.biz/index.php?module=product&event=viewdetail&pid=124&cid=
OR
Prag 4kVA, 24V
http://www.buyright.biz/index.php?module=product&event=viewdetail&pid=143

4. If going with the 48V inverter, then 8 units of 12V, 200Ah batteries
If going with 24V inverter, then 6 units of 12V, 200Ah batteries
Looking at the Quanta make ....(But its ridiculously expensive! Any suggestions??)

Others
Solar Mount Rails and accessories
Combiner Box?
AC Breaker
DC Breakers

What do you think? In the absence of the big names, do these come in a close 2nd?

Thanks!

P.S.: Please any vendor viewing this who has these in supply can kindly mention me. I can get Prag direct from Buyright though.

earthrealm:
so i have 4units 24v 250w usa renogy panels, am thinking of upping my setup to 1500w, ie adding 2more units of 250w panels, my problem is that i cant get the renogy panels anymore, thus am forced to mix the panels...maybe yingli or sunworld.
so i will have 2 strings of 3 panels each feeding my 60amps mppt epsolar CC.
i hope my plan of mixing the panels isnt that bad?.. would try to match the voc, and vmp as much as i can, i intend to also swap out my #10 guage running from the panels to the CC, to a bigger cable

Hello,
please check I sc (=short circuit) and I mpp (=maximum power point). No need to check U oc (=V oc) and U mpp (=V mpp), in my opinion.

This would be my suggestion: choose a solar panel with the same cell type. mono -> mono; poly -> poly. Why? So that you have similar temperature efficiency coefficient.
And with similar or greater I sc and I mpp of your existing solar panels. Why? Because you do not want the new panels to limit the existing panels. If you choose smaller I mpp, then you loose energy. The panel with the smallest I mpp is your bottle neck!
String A: (+)--[old]---[old]---[new]--(minus)

String B: (+)--[old]---[old]---[new]--(minus)

I (String A) = I (String B)
I (old panel) = I (new panel)
U (String A) = U (String B)

As long as I mpp and I sc is not smaller, then you could go for 260 Watts or 270 Watts panels.

But U oc (String) = U oc (old) + U oc (old) + U oc (new) = U oc < U (DC/PV in of solar charger)
The solar charger must be able to cope with the total U oc. Otherwise your MPPT won't work.

Still thinking if inverter/solar solution works? You need to ask those who have good solar/inverter solution in their homes or offices and change your idea or misconception about it. Our inverters have LED display that shows the wattage consumption, voltage output and the battery level. You can also set the charging priority to either solar or utility. We have 1.4kva, 2.4kva, 3kva in stock. For enquiry and order please call 07032687954

GeorgeD1:
abunafiu,
donmajor2,
dunka,
et al,

thanks guys. indeed its been quite a while. its really exciting seeing all the new developments happening
on the thread and so many new members getting hooked on solar.

ever since the price of fuel sky-rocketed, its been my desire to revisit that calculation I did in 2010 and I
I was quite surprised at the outcome. what a difference six years makes.

on a side note, my system is still firing on all cylinders with no issues at all - discounting weather.
when I look back at all the money spent and this calculation, I realize that in six years, my system has
more than paid for itself in terms of cost-savings alone. right now, what I'm using is free energy!

Oga GeorgeD1! Most welcome!! We no even see your tail light.....................

How about this battery setup?

Original picture by kiekie1

battleaxe:
Guys.... Solar wish list

1. 12 units of 255W Canadian Solar Panels
2. Solar Charge Controller: Advice please?

3. Prag 5kVA, 48V
Option 1: http://www.buyright.biz/index.php?module=product&event=viewdetail&pid=128
Option 2: http://www.buyright.biz/index.php?module=product&event=viewdetail&pid=124&cid=
OR
Prag 4kVA, 24V
http://www.buyright.biz/index.php?module=product&event=viewdetail&pid=143

4. If going with the 48V inverter, then 8 units of 12V, 200Ah batteries
If going with 24V inverter, then 6 units of 12V, 200Ah batteries
Looking at the Quanta make ....(But its ridiculously expensive! Any suggestions??)

Others
Solar Mount Rails and accessories
Combiner Box?
AC Breaker
DC Breakers

What do you think? In the absence of the big names, do these come in a close 2nd?

Thanks!

P.S.: Please any vendor viewing this who has these in supply can kindly mention me. I can get Prag direct from Buyright though.

Nice .. Call me now for mouth watering discounts on all items listed above including PRAG inverter .. Thanks

iLoveTheSun:
How about this battery setup?

Original picture by kiekie1

If I understand this, this is a series parallel connection right? So we have 2 sets of 4 batteries connected in series.

4 batteries in series gives 48V, 200Ah.

2 sets of the above connected in parallel then gives 48V, 200Ah.

Is that correct?

If yes, I would like to raise the point made by @bigrovar on parallel connections. Will I have the same concerns with this? I.e difficulty in getting equal charge, inability to notice when one battery has issues this dragging others down etc.

This is ajo money! Want to be sure I put all the learnings here to play.

Thanks.

@ilovethesun
Pls ignore last post.

I see you're recommending a preferred arrangement for still the same 4 batteries to reduce cabling.

Sorry.

Good day sir, we have canadian solar 2555w in large stock , we also have proffesional solar mounts, GENNEX GEL Batteries ,Hybrid inverters e.t.c please contact us on 08145463278

battleaxe:
Guys.... Solar wish list

1. 12 units of 255W Canadian Solar Panels
2. Solar Charge Controller: Advice please?

3. Prag 5kVA, 48V
Option 1: http://www.buyright.biz/index.php?module=product&event=viewdetail&pid=128
Option 2: http://www.buyright.biz/index.php?module=product&event=viewdetail&pid=124&cid=
OR
Prag 4kVA, 24V
http://www.buyright.biz/index.php?module=product&event=viewdetail&pid=143

4. If going with the 48V inverter, then 8 units of 12V, 200Ah batteries
If going with 24V inverter, then 6 units of 12V, 200Ah batteries
Looking at the Quanta make ....(But its ridiculously expensive! Any suggestions??)

Others
Solar Mount Rails and accessories
Combiner Box?
AC Breaker
DC Breakers

What do you think? In the absence of the big names, do these come in a close 2nd?

Thanks!

P.S.: Please any vendor viewing this who has these in supply can kindly mention me. I can get Prag direct from Buyright though.

Funny, that people still think that Canadian Solar is a Canadian firm!

It was a good marketing act!

It is Chinese. It was later that they opened a panel factory in Ontario, Canada in order to meet the local content criteria to get the high feed-in tariff. But after the feed-in tariff system fell apart, and the province Prime Minister stepped back, I'm not sure, it that factory still exists.
Pure politics!

Can someone upload a picture of the name/type plate?

It will say "Made in China". I will bet a box of beer

Gennextech:
Good day sir, we have canadian solar 2555w in large stock , we also have proffesional solar mounts, GENNEX GEL Batteries ,Hybrid inverters e.t.c please contact us on 08145463278

Mono or Poly? Post nameplate please.

How much?

Cheers

battleaxe:


If I understand this, this is a series parallel connection right? So we have 2 sets of 4 batteries connected in series.

4 batteries in series gives 48V, 200Ah.

2 sets of the above connected in parallel then gives 48V, 200Ah.

Is that correct?

If yes, I would like to raise the point made by @bigrovar on parallel connections. Will I have the same concerns with this? I.e difficulty in getting equal charge, inability to notice when one battery has issues this dragging others down etc.

This is ajo money! Want to be sure I put all the learnings here to play.

Thanks.

Mmh, what you see in my graph both constellations are in series!
On the left side it is "status quo" from kiekie1 and on the right side, that is my suggestion with shorter cables/bridges - still in series.

Regarding your question:
If you have four 12 V batteries in series with 200 Ah, then you have 4 x 12 V x 200 Ah = 9600 VAh (whereas you should only use 50%!).
So if you have two banks with four 12 V batteries each, then you have 2 x [ 4 x 12 V x 200 Ah ] = 19200 VAh
BUT for your application you will need C5 or C10 = 200 Ah. Mostly, 200 Ah on the nameplate is C20 or even C100.
So please double check the specs. 200 Ah without C indication does not tell the full picture.

[EDIT]
OK, no problem, I ignore it. But I leave my last paragraph for the house to read.
@ all: when you have a 48V set-up, you need to make sure that all batteries are well vented, in order to have similar temperature.
Why? Different temperature, different resistance, different performance, different chemical reactions inside the battery.
In the long run, assymetries cause inefficiencies and early stress for the poor performing once, which does accelerate the degradation.
In a 48 V set-up, I recommend a balancer that checks the mid-point voltage as well. And I recommend to rotate the batteries from time to time.
...
p.s. I am not here to sell, I am here to share my experience and to support my fellow solar installers.
I will post some pics in the future.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kt2SYhoajQ

earthrealm:
so i have 4units 24v 250w usa renogy panels, am thinking of upping my setup to 1500w, ie adding 2more units of 250w panels, my problem is that i cant get the renogy panels anymore, thus am forced to mix the panels...maybe yingli or sunworld.
so i will have 2 strings of 3 panels each feeding my 60amps mppt epsolar CC.

i hope my plan of mixing the panels isnt that bad?.. would try to match the voc, and vmp as much as i can, i intend to also swap out my #10 guage running from the panels to the CC, to a bigger cable


@barezzi, sent u a pm as per your old stuff
@bigrovar hv sent u mail

Hello earthrealm, holla let's discuss !!!

battleaxe:
Guys.... Solar wish list

1. 12 units of 255W Canadian Solar Panels
2. Solar Charge Controller: Advice please?

3. Prag 5kVA, 48V
Option 1: http://www.buyright.biz/index.php?module=product&event=viewdetail&pid=128
Option 2: http://www.buyright.biz/index.php?module=product&event=viewdetail&pid=124&cid=
OR
Prag 4kVA, 24V
http://www.buyright.biz/index.php?module=product&event=viewdetail&pid=143

4. If going with the 48V inverter, then 8 units of 12V, 200Ah batteries
If going with 24V inverter, then 6 units of 12V, 200Ah batteries
Looking at the Quanta make ....(But its ridiculously expensive! Any suggestions??)

Others
Solar Mount Rails and accessories
Combiner Box?
AC Breaker
DC Breakers

What do you think? In the absence of the big names, do these come in a close 2nd?

Thanks!

P.S.: Please any vendor viewing this who has these in supply can kindly mention me. I can get Prag direct from Buyright though.

For your charge controller you can use the Ep series being advertised by Kiekie1. There is good user feedback and is good value for money.

GeorgeD1:
abunafiu,
donmajor2,
dunka,
et al,

thanks guys. indeed its been quite a while. its really exciting seeing all the new developments happening
on the thread and so many new members getting hooked on solar.

ever since the price of fuel sky-rocketed, its been my desire to revisit that calculation I did in 2010 and I
I was quite surprised at the outcome. what a difference six years makes.

on a side note, my system is still firing on all cylinders with no issues at all - discounting weather.
when I look back at all the money spent and this calculation, I realize that in six years, my system has
more than paid for itself in terms of cost-savings alone. right now, what I'm using is free energy!

welcome back brother. Good to see someone also doing the economics of going solar. For me it's been a joyful journey.. I now buy fish and chicken in cartoon.. I don add weight now since I went solar.. Na so so chicken person dey chop.. on most afternoons NEPA is on standby who no like awoof electricity. PPP is the way

bigrovar,
many peeps complaining about the high cost of solar never really sit down to do the maths.
still, many of us trying to wean people off the 'generator mentally' are sometimes at a loss
when faced with such complaints as solar being too expensive. but when we are armed with
facts such as this, the advantages of solar in terms of cost savings becomes staggering.
do you know that even with dollar at 500 naira, solar is still cheaper to set up compared with
the long-term cost of running fuel-guzzling generators over the space of 25 years?

my solar panels are still pumping out juice over 6 years after installation just like they did from
day one. my inverter is still doing great with no issues at all. batteries are performing
marvellously. at this rate, i'm seeing myself coasting through another couple of years before
worrying about any system or component failure.

so, doing the 25year maths for cost of running generators, it will be like this:

522,000*25 = 13,050,000 naira
and if i were to run my generator for double the time, i'e 24hrs everyday (like my inverter presently)
it will amount to:

13,050,000*2 = 26,100,000 naira spent over that space of time.

thankfully though, I don't have to incur this cost anymore thanks to solar.

truly, the sun is the answer!

GeorgeD1:
abunafiu,
donmajor2,
dunka,
et al,

thanks guys. indeed its been quite a while. its really exciting seeing all the new developments happening
on the thread and so many new members getting hooked on solar.

ever since the price of fuel sky-rocketed, its been my desire to revisit that calculation I did in 2010 and I
I was quite surprised at the outcome. what a difference six years makes.

on a side note, my system is still firing on all cylinders with no issues at all - discounting weather.
when I look back at all the money spent and this calculation, I realize that in six years, my system has
more than paid for itself in terms of cost-savings alone. right now, what I'm using is free energy!

George D, u inspired me on this journey of renewable energy. When I see the benefits I've got thru my little set up since june 2014 , it motivates me to keep investing more on renewable energy. With my 1.4kva inverter, 2*200ah batteries connected in series 24v, 6 pieces of 150 watts panel(900watts), and my little pwm 30ah and 20ah charge controller all working at the same time, I can power my frigde(110watts) for at least 4 hours on a cloudy day and 6 hours on a sunny day. Also my appreciation goes to Richmond, Abunafiu, Dunka,Chris,Kiekie,Saipro,Earthrealm,Cogumo,Bigrover,and many others which I can't mention. U guys are doing a great job here. May God almighty keep blessing u all beyond measures.

@House
If I have a standalone inverter(which has an inbuilt charger), plus a separate Charge controller, will it be possible for my batteries to get charged from both the PV array and the grid (if PHCN is available) simultanoesly?

I'm weighing the pros of an hybrid inverter. But if I can achieve same with say like Dunka's setup, then the hybrid doesn't have any edge. Well, apart from the fact that it costs a lot more to have the standalone systems.

Your kind advice pls.

battleaxe:
@House
If I have a standalone inverter(which has an inbuilt charger), plus a separate Charge controller, will it be possible for my batteries to get charged from both the PV array and the grid (if PHCN is available) simultanoesly?

I'm weighing the pros of an hybrid inverter. But if I can achieve same with say like Dunka's setup, then the hybrid doesn't have any edge. Well, apart from the fact that it costs a lot more to have the standalone systems.

Your kind advice pls.

Contact me if interested in this clean fairly used inverter set up ..

(1) Magnum MS4348PE inverter > =N=
(6) 220w Lorentz panels > SOLD
(6) 130w Lorentz panels > SOLD
(1) Midnight Solar 125A dc disconnect panel > =N= (includes breakers, shunt and bus bar)
(1) Outback FM60 mppt charge controller > =N=
(1) Magnum advance remote ME-ARC50 > =N=
(1) Magnum battery monitor kit ME-BMK > =N=

battleaxe:
@House
If I have a standalone inverter(which has an inbuilt charger), plus a separate Charge controller, will it be possible for my batteries to get charged from both the PV array and the grid (if PHCN is available) simultanoesly?

Yes, there is a brand that has AC in where you can connect either grid or generator or you install a transfer switch, then you can connect to both, grid and genset.

I'll get back soon...

poly , 66,000

JohnKester:


Mono or Poly? Post nameplate please.

How much?

Cheers

iLoveTheSun:


Yes, there is brand that has AC in where you can connect either grid or generator or you install a transfer switch, then you can connect to both, grid and genset.

I'll get back soon...

@ilovethesun

Thanks! But will I be able to charge the batteries from both grid(PHCN/Gen) and my solar panels at the same time?

Or is it only an hybrid inverter that has the capability to make this happen?

Thanks.

Yes, you can charge at the same time.

As promised here is the simple single line diagram.

I need to add grounding/earthing. SPD = Surge protection device.
@House: if I forgot something, please let me know.