ojeysky:


You can reach the guy that coupled my first 200AH LFP, check my previous posts for his contact. He sells the 200AH 24v (25.6v norminal) at 500k now.

Meanwhile you can ask him to use a BMS with user management interface (he now does that), it will take your cost up by a few amount but it's better to be able to see how each of your cells is performing. It helps for troubleshooting.

adrusa:



This is what is called FUD, Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt and it is used by many to fight new technologies they either don't like or understand.
Yes, Lead acid batteries have been tested, but not trusted. Its glaring failures is the reason why the world has constantly being trying to find better alternative since the turn of the centuries and Lithium in its various iterations have been shown to be better in all ways than Lead acid.

For me, while longevity is an important attraction for Lithium, what I like most about it is its ability to hold up its voltage until it is almost completely drained. It is the reason why it is possible to take the advertised AH out of a lithium battery while that is difficult for lead acid. Of course there are so many other advantages, but I will recommend that anyone interested should read up about them.

As to BMS, BMV, Special Chargers etc, most batteries including lead acid requires all of these except a BMS. And the reason why lead acid don't require BMS is because the owners serve as the BMS. With a good BMS, your battery is protected from OVERVOLTAGE, OVERDISCHARGE, OVERCHARGE and even sometimes Short Circuit. With lead acid, the owners will have to do these by babysitting the battery. Every battery require adjustable charger. That some peope use chargers with stock parameters is because the chargers are cheaper and the owners do not know better. If you can not adjust the voltage and current of your charger to match the specifications of your battery, you will soon destroy the battery, lead acid more quickly than lithium as the BMS will always protect your lithium.

Anyone starting off, who has the capacity to get lithium should get it without hesitation, it is your best bet. You will not have to change it in 8 months to 2 years like most lead acid battery. And no one should be deceived by the hype of 10 year old lead acid batteries. In some rare cases that can happen, if the battery bank is large and rarely deeply discharged. For most people with a small bank that sees regular deep discharges, if your lead acid batteries last 4 years, you have done well. And don't be deceived by those 15 years design life. You can only get that from most if the batteries are mostly floating as it happens in some settings especially for telecoms.

And FYI, I currently have two battery banks. A 540AH lead acid that I have had for about 5 years and a 340AH LFP of about a year duration. If I have the means I have now and know what I know now about LFP more than 10 years ago when I started my solar journey, I would have started out with lithium.

Abdomox:


Thanks for this info. Can't see previous posts. Please help with his contact details.

NiyiOmoIyunade:
All the Lithium vs Lead Acid discussions, interesting ideas and takes coming up.

I think some of people's experiences are driven by bias in how they obtained their measurements.

I have heard it said repeatedly that voltage will sag beyond useable levels before you get Lead Acid beyond 50% DoD - this is not true at all. A premium inverter like Victron, the lowest Low Voltage Disconnect is around 37v in a 48v nominal system. You can drain your Lead Acid to 100% DoD if you so wish just that it will have a much shorter service life.

If you had an indian type inverter with LVD at 11.5v per 12v nominal, it would appear the battery has given all useable energy early whereas the real bottleneck is the inverter cutoff.

In practice, to safely deep discharge Lead Acid, you must understand how amps rise as voltage drops for thesame amount of power and size your cables, busbars, breakers and fuses appropriately.

I went for LFP because of superior safety and stability. I went for a premium pylontech as I am entirely offgrid and needed a product that could deliver under heavy duty daily use.

For my chemistry, 3.2v per cell is about the safe discharge limit before destructive chemical processes and imbalances begin in the cells. This is about 80% DoD. I routinely did 75% DoD for almost a year until I added the last set of 4 bricks.

This precise cutoff is also helped by having an inverter capable of invoking a disconnect based on SoC. In the Victron world, the PylonTech battery can broadcast its precise SoC to the Victron GX who then communicates to the MultiPlus or Quattro's inbuilt battery monitor. So even as my batteries age, I can assure I always cutoff at 25% SoC/75% DoD and a little above 3.2v per cell.

This is far more reliable than voltage based cutoffs especially in situations where you do not/cannot put in a full charge into the battery. Once I discovered Victron's shutdown on SoC feature, I visited all sites I support (even the lead acid ones) and performed the settings change for free. For lead acid, I can ignore voltage based cutoff and simply set a true 50 to 55% DoD limit.

These value added features not easily recreated el cheapo are the justification for a premium inverter with comms and a premium battery that can speak to the inverter and charge controllers directly.

adrusa:



This is what is called FUD, Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt and it is used by many to fight new technologies they either don't like or understand.
Yes, Lead acid batteries have been tested, but not trusted. Its glaring failures is the reason why the world has constantly being trying to find better alternative since the turn of the centuries and Lithium in its various iterations have been shown to be better in all ways than Lead acid.

For me, while longevity is an important attraction for Lithium, what I like most about it is its ability to hold up its voltage until it is almost completely drained. It is the reason why it is possible to take the advertised AH out of a lithium battery while that is difficult for lead acid. Of course there are so many other advantages, but I will recommend that anyone interested should read up about them.

As to BMS, BMV, Special Chargers etc, most batteries including lead acid requires all of these except a BMS. And the reason why lead acid don't require BMS is because the owners serve as the BMS. With a good BMS, your battery is protected from OVERVOLTAGE, OVERDISCHARGE, OVERCHARGE and even sometimes Short Circuit. With lead acid, the owners will have to do these by babysitting the battery. Every battery require adjustable charger. That some peope use chargers with stock parameters is because the chargers are cheaper and the owners do not know better. If you can not adjust the voltage and current of your charger to match the specifications of your battery, you will soon destroy the battery, lead acid more quickly than lithium as the BMS will always protect your lithium.

Anyone starting off, who has the capacity to get lithium should get it without hesitation, it is your best bet. You will not have to change it in 8 months to 2 years like most lead acid battery. And no one should be deceived by the hype of 10 year old lead acid batteries. In some rare cases that can happen, if the battery bank is large and rarely deeply discharged. For most people with a small bank that sees regular deep discharges, if your lead acid batteries last 4 years, you have done well. And don't be deceived by those 15 years design life. You can only get that from most if the batteries are mostly floating as it happens in some settings especially for telecoms.

And FYI, I currently have two battery banks. A 540AH lead acid that I have had for about 5 years and a 340AH LFP of about a year duration. If I have the means I have now and know what I know now about LFP more than 10 years ago when I started my solar journey, I would have started out with lithium.

funshyboi:
Good evening guys,

I’m a little bit worried about my LifePo4 battery that last 5 hours when I Do charge it with electricity. But when I use solar panel it doesn’t last up to 2hours.

Even The controller shows It that That the panel stops charging battery at 95% Instead of it to be at 100%

kiekie1 eleojo23 wilmaria14 GeorgeD1 ceaser your vast experience and suggestions are needed.

babniyen:
Good morning house, I am being offered considering a 100ah 24v Lithium battery as a replacement for my 24v 200ah Lead acid. I want to know if it will standup to the same service levels.. Thanks

babniyen:
Good morning house, I am being offered considering a 100ah 24v Lithium battery as a replacement for my 24v 200ah Lead acid. I want to know if it will standup to the same service levels.. Thanks

ceaser:


@bolded
What about LTO that claims 100% DoD without significant negative impact on cycle life?

I think one of us here uses LTO. Dapsyra, I think. He does not come online here much. Him feeding peeps his experience too will not be bad.

wilmaria14:
what type of controller do u use MPPT or PWM

kiekie1:


Hello, I guess we've had a private chat few days ago .. I don't basically know the loads?
The make , origin & picture of your battery ?
Solar to pwm & pwm to battery guage ?
Are your mismatched panels brand new or refurbished? What're individual panel voltages on your DC meter ?

Lovelynife:

location and pls how much are you offered for the 100ah 24v?

NiyiOmoIyunade:
Boss you quoted me say 'In most systems 100% DoD is not feasible' na. Surely there are exceptions.

Oga Dapsyra's cells look more like specialized, industrial grade product that you would see in aerospace or similar applications not a general comsumer battery

Even so, I am not sure he does 100% DoD on routine basis, it is simply poor design to max out your battery and let the BMS cutoff - the elegant way is to let the inverter neatly disconnect AC output at the preset LVD point and neatly resume AC supply once some charge has made it into the battery

babniyen:
420K

funshyboi:

Yes we chatted but not on this issue The main loads on the battery is 32 inches LG TV Attached are the pictures of the battery And the connection with the PWM CC
Both voltage on the DC meter reads 18V
I got the 80 watts 3 weeks earlier than the 160w

funshyboi:
Good evening guys,

I’m a little bit worried about my LifePo4 battery that last 5 hours when I Do charge it with electricity. But when I use solar panel it doesn’t last up to 2hours.

Even The controller shows It that That the panel stops charging battery at 95% Instead of it to be at 100%

kiekie1 eleojo23 wilmaria14 GeorgeD1 ceaser your vast experience and suggestions are needed.

earthrealm:
Interesting debate, lifepo4 and lead acid.
Serms this is a quarterly debate now, as awareness rises.

Am about to make a leap to lifepo4, and having been doing a ton of research.
Lifepo4 is a bit complex, i must confess, too many moving parts/failure points, the more i research, the more i see where many could be burnt badly, if they jump into lifepo4 without adequate knowledge..i hail those using lithuim without a bms.

I guess am old school,

GeorgeD1:
we could go on and on with the whole lithium vs lead acid debate but then what's the point?
what works, works and what doesn't work doesn't work. it's as simple as that.
on paper my 260ah zenith batteries were not supposed to last beyond 2yrs. or 4 at most (with careful usage).
but here i was using them for over 7yrs and at a point i even became confused as to whether they were
really lead acid or some other battery chemistry sold off mistakenly to me as such.
as for deception, i think if anyone is trying to deceive anybody it certainly wouldn't be the lead acid camp but
those on lithium. why would a company that has been in business over 50yrs like exide, hoppeke, trojan, etc
risk their reputation by putting a 15yrs label on a product they know would go bust under 3 or 4 years? that
would be suicidal to say the least. lithium on the other hand still remains a grey field and largely untested until
recently. so when you hear glowing number of promised cycles, better be cautious because nobody can really
show proof that it can live up to that.
lithium becomes a hype (in my opinion) when proponents try to play up its supposedly superior qualities
while downplaying the negatives. at least in this thread, i see a pattern emerging where it would seem like if
you're still using lead acid you're regarded as not sophisticated or not moving with the times. how wrong can
that be? no wonder someone is comparing lithium and lead acid to manual vs automatic cars! lolz
truth is that each battery chemistry have their place. depending on its application, none is superior to the other.
crucially, on a price to amp/hr basis and ease of deployment vs maintenance, lead acid wins hands down. it is the
reason why you won't find telecoms base stations or banks installing lithium (yet) as their primary battery banks.
they rather go for trusted and tested technology which don't need tinkering with before it can perform.
that said, nobody is ignoring lithium. far from it. personally i'm all for new technology, never against innovation.
i look forward to a time when lithium becomes mainstream just like lead acid. from li-ion to lifepo4 and now lito.
it can only get better. but anyone thinking lead acid will go away anytime soon better brace up and get ready
to be disappointed!

funshyboi:


40 amps (480watts) is the size of the battery
The size of the panels are 160 and 80 ways connected in parallel

The type of inverter is attached in the picture

Mainly the load I connected to my system are just one 32inches LG TV and 2 phones charging simultaneously

Thanks as I await your response

Lovelynife:

please,how much did you get the battery and where please?

GeorgeD1:


you got to check your cc settings. obviously your charge controller is not charging your batteries to full capacity hence
the sharp drop in back up hours as compared to when charged with public utility using your inverter charging
function. it could also be you may need to increase your solar array.

Abdomox:


Please help with his contact. Thanks

dapsyra:
You cannot only discharge LTO batteries to 100% DoD routinely without any damage, you can also discharge them to 0v without dire consequences. Some of my cell actually arrived at 0v sealed in a packet from the manufacturer. They were in storage for 10years before I bought them.

LTO batteries simply don't burst into flames no matter the abuse. It is the safest Lithium chemistry available today. It is superior to LFP.

I concur with Niyi that it is poor design to max out your battery capacity and rely on BMS to cutoff. I did 100% DOD a few times just to verify the true capacity of the batteries and they over performed on every occasion.

When many people do the Lithium Vs Lead Acid comparison, they leave out so many important factors. Coulombic Efficiency is one such factor.
Most Lithium batteries have Coulombic efficiency greater than 99% while that of Lead acid is about 85%. This implies that every time you cycle your lead acid battery, 15% of the energy is lost to battery inefficiency as against 1% loss in Lithium. This is real energy you could have used to power your home wasted by Pb batteries.

Another important factor is the charge C rate. Most lead acid batteries are rated at C10 or less. Lithium on the other hand can do 1C or higher. This become very important in Solar applications because of the limited sun hours available daily. You can easily over size your array to fully recharge the Lithium batteries in 1-2 hours. Try this with lead acid batteries and watch your battery become a heater.

You can also benefit from the high charge rate of Lithium batteries even if you rely on PHCN to recharge your battery. With adequate fast charger, you can easily recharge your Lithium battery within 1-2hours window when PHCN is available in your area. No need to run expensive generator.

Today's Lead Acid vs Lithium debate is similar to the Carburetor vs Injector and Automatic vs Manual transmission debate of late '80s and early '90.
The new vs the old. The old had never won and it will not in this instance also.

When people talk about the Lithium hype, I smile. It is not a hype; it is real! You need to experience Lithium to appreciate it. Some of the die hard Lead acid fans on this platform that eventually took the Lithium plunge can attest to this.

Ignore Lithium at your detriment.

funshyboi:

Someone dashed it off to me 9 years back

funshyboi:

Someone dashed it off to me 9 years back

funshyboi:

Thank you the issue with the controller is it has only 3 buttons and it doesn’t seems to me like it’s working cos I keep pressing them and nothing is showing.

Ps
The controller shows 100% after 2-3 hours of charging maybe I will contact the seller again

GeorgeD1:


you got to check your cc settings. obviously your charge controller is not charging your batteries to full capacity hence
the sharp drop in back up hours as compared to when charged with public utility using your inverter charging
function. it could also be you may need to increase your solar array.

dapsyra:
You cannot only discharge LTO batteries to 100% DoD routinely without any damage, you can also discharge them to 0v without dire consequences. Some of my cell actually arrived at 0v sealed in a packet from the manufacturer. They were in storage for 10years before I bought them.

LTO batteries simply don't burst into flames no matter the abuse. It is the safest Lithium chemistry available today. It is superior to LFP.

I concur with Niyi that it is poor design to max out your battery capacity and rely on BMS to cutoff. I did 100% DOD a few times just to verify the true capacity of the batteries and they over performed on every occasion.

When many people do the Lithium Vs Lead Acid comparison, they leave out so many important factors. Coulombic Efficiency is one such factor.
Most Lithium batteries have Coulombic efficiency greater than 99% while that of Lead acid is about 85%. This implies that every time you cycle your lead acid battery, 15% of the energy is lost to battery inefficiency as against 1% loss in Lithium. This is real energy you could have used to power your home wasted by Pb batteries.

Another important factor is the charge C rate. Most lead acid batteries are rated at C10 or less. Lithium on the other hand can do 1C or higher. This become very important in Solar applications because of the limited sun hours available daily. You can easily over size your array to fully recharge the Lithium batteries in 1-2 hours. Try this with lead acid batteries and watch your battery become a heater.

You can also benefit from the high charge rate of Lithium batteries even if you rely on PHCN to recharge your battery. With adequate fast charger, you can easily recharge your Lithium battery within 1-2hours window when PHCN is available in your area. No need to run expensive generator.

Today's Lead Acid vs Lithium debate is similar to the Carburetor vs Injector and Automatic vs Manual transmission debate of late '80s and early '90.
The new vs the old. The old had never won and it will not in this instance also.

When people talk about the Lithium hype, I smile. It is not a hype; it is real! You need to experience Lithium to appreciate it. Some of the die hard Lead acid fans on this platform that eventually took the Lithium plunge can attest to this.

Ignore Lithium at your detriment.

ceaser: