matrix600:
If God created man, it is impossible for man to manifest a trait or quality that God did not put in him. So why blame man.

Exactly the point.
The Genesis passage says, Let us make man in our own image...

shadeyinka:


Where did I say God controls everything we do

God doesn't control what we do. The is the purpose of free will is for man to choose his direction within any constraint je finds himself. He also has been warned to choose wisely either to align yourself with Gods will or go contrary.

Read your post again, seems u can't comprehend with what u wrote, If god created freewill and it's consequences, knows everything we gonna do with it, created humans Yet u said he did not programmed us to do what we do in life, u don't even require common sense to understand this.

shadeyinka:

Its simple:
Its like your Father gave you a Porsche Car with a speedometer that maxes at 400 km/h with an instruction for you not to exceed 120km/h.

Yes, you have a free will either to stay within the speed limit or not, but don't also forget that there may be a consequence for over speeding which may involve you accidentally killing someone else, getting maimed etc.

Can we blame your father for giving you a Porsche rather than a Tractor as a means of transportation?

Lol u comparison with ur described God is not match to human at all, religionists confuse themselves alot with this,
My loving and Kind father gave me a car with 400km /h Max speed with instructions on how to use it For safety, made me not to use properly as he instructed, Also it would cost him nothing to give 10000000km/h Max speed free ride without Safety Use instructions

He is not only to be blamed but also to be persecuted for killing,
The only difference Btw a parent giving it's Child knife and god is they knows that probably the child might get hurt but god already programmed the child to get Hurt and pushed the blame on the child.

A question from my "big bad lizard friend".......................................

Hanabian:
> Jeremiah > Chapter 1 > Verse 5
"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart..."

The case of freewill is the ultimate failure of the religious propagandas. Its funny how a being that claims you have a free will also punishes you for exercising your freewill.
This is a case of giving money to a child and telling him or her to buy a Nintendo or Xbox.In the child's mind,he thinks he has a choice in the matter,but doesn't know his choice has already being decided for him.
Wake up people, the religious Gods are myths and only powerful in the pages of fictional books.
This is my first topic and post on this site,and I am here to wake a lot of people up from their slumber.

But how many people are slumbering but you alone?.

Me: what can we do to save a lost soul?

My shadow: just quote her a bible verse jawe.


Mathhew7:3-6;
3.
Why do you notice the splinter in your brother’s eye, but do not perceive the wooden beam in your own eye?
4
How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me remove that splinter from your eye,’ while the wooden beam is in your eye?
5
You hypocrite,* remove the wooden beam from your eye first; then you will see clearly to remove the splinter from your brother’s eye.


So my dear OP... You need to consider your own self before considering others.

Don't confuse others when you are not yet convinced


Thanks.

Jhaytee4all:


But how many people are slumbering but you alone?.

Me: what can we do to save a lost soul?

My shadow: just quote her a bible verse jawe.


Mathhew7:3-6;
3.
Why do you notice the splinter in your brother’s eye, but do not perceive the wooden beam in your own eye?
4
How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me remove that splinter from your eye,’ while the wooden beam is in your eye?
5
You hypocrite,* remove the wooden beam from your eye first; then you will see clearly to remove the splinter from your brother’s eye.


So my dear OP... You need to consider your own self before considering others.

Don't confuse others when you are not yet convinced


Thanks.

Sorry,I don't understand you.
Can you relate your post to the OP?

Hanabian:

Sorry,I don't understand you.
Can you relate your post to the OP?

Hanabian,

To my understanding of the post, I guess (s)he was trying to mislead the people of God or being 'blasphemous'

So, dnt judge me yet

Hanabian:

I will summarize your opinion with one question. Did God know that Adam will do what he did or did he not know?

God knew they would fail...but God also knows that within the failure, there will come out the cream of His creation. From the Pains and Tribulations caused by sin, and out of death comes life.

The creators/inventors of the Aeroplane knew that thousands will die from plane crash BUT the joy of Fast Long distant travels and improvements in aviation technology is worth the price.

We take injections even when we know that it would be painful. Ladies get pregnant even when the pains of child delivery is almost unbearable.

obinna58:

Read your post again, seems u can't comprehend with what u wrote, If god created freewill and it's consequences, knows everything we gonna do with it, created humans Yet u said he did not programmed us to do what we do in life, u don't even require common sense to understand this.

Lol u comparison with ur described God is not match to human at all, religionists confuse themselves alot with this,
My loving and Kind father gave me a car with 400km /h Max speed with instructions on how to use it For safety, made me not to use properly as he instructed, Also it would cost him nothing to give 10000000km/h Max speed free ride without Safety Use instructions

He is not only to be blamed but also to be persecuted for killing,
The only difference Btw a parent giving it's Child knife and god is they knows that probably the child might get hurt but god already programmed the child to get Hurt and pushed the blame on the child.

It doesn't matter because you are all made up against him. Because of my Education sponsored by my Parent, the kind of knowledge I have about weapons that could lead to mass destruction is massive (I read some little Physics).

Is it my Fathers fault?

Even if I start manufacturing remote controlled smart bombs, land mines and armour piercing bullets, is it still my Fathers fault? Should he (my Father) have kept me in ignorance?

Whatever your answer is applies also to God for giving you the Power to even Reject Him.

By your choice you respect your Parent: they have empowered you enough to choose to disrespect them now but till date, by your choice you respect them (even when you become stronger, more knowledgeable and richer than them)

Hanabian:
> Jeremiah > Chapter 1 > Verse 5
"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart..."

The case of freewill is the ultimate failure of the religious propagandas. Its funny how a being that claims you have a free will also punishes you for exercising your freewill.
This is a case of giving money to a child and telling him or her to buy a Nintendo or Xbox.In the child's mind,he thinks he has a choice in the matter,but doesn't know his choice has already being decided for him.
Wake up people, the religious Gods are myths and only powerful in the pages of fictional books.
This is my first topic and post on this site,and I am here to wake a lot of people up from their slumber.

whatever we fail to understand we oppose. Free will is the ability to choose between different courses of action.
Don't get it twisted, every CAUSE has an EFFECT.
if you decided to jump from a storey building today God will not stop you because u have free will but trust me the consequence that follows u must suffer.
somebody rightly puts it. " I can guarantee u freedom of speech but what I can't guarantee u is freedom after speech"
regards

Hanabian:
Did Adam and Eve sin,or where they actually planted in the garden of Eden to further some beings interest?
Is it not silly to believe Adam and Eve actually had a say in the matter when in fact they have been preordained to commit the act they whole Bible is based upon? Jer 1:5

As if that deceit is not enough,the Almighty that says he is all knowing and omniscient regretted
creating man. Is this a joke,or are some people really silly? Is like keeping a loaded gun near a child with the safety on,and then blaming the child for shooting himself with it.However, this child illustration is still hindered by the fact that the supposed Almighty knows what will happen in 20billion years,yet he never knew that man will eat a fruit.
Wake up people from this silly religious bullshit!

Yes Adam and eve sinned
Your confusion lies in understanding what preordination and predestination is.
Ordain( Greek: Nathan) means to set apart or a point to a specific office or function usually before the person gives his consent(will).
A day old heir to the throne is preordained for that office. when the child grows up he has the FREEWILL( choice) to rule or not each decisio
n with its CONSEQUENCE
reread Jeremiah 1:5 he was ordained. This also plays in politics.
Freewill is greater than preordination.

to predestine means to decree.
study the bible carefully to know how and when God uses one over the other.
regards friend

geoworldedu:
Yahweh's foolishness no be here

His foolishness is wiser than the wisdom of men( 1 Corinthians 1:25)

I hope u discover that someday maybe not too late. regards

hopefulLandlord:
true omniscience paradox

Not true nothing paradoxical about his claim. God doesn't predestine ( decree) evil. The evil u see in this cosmos is from the devil and demons which live in men

chrisav:


Not true
nothing paradoxical about his claim. God doesn't predestine ( decree) evil.
The evil u see in this cosmos is from the devil and demons which live in men

created by who?

Obalende:


You have written a very wicked piece. Listen to me: God created a devil designated as a tempter, God also created demons to do evil biddings of entrapping us in sin, gave us sinful natures - then how is it my choice that i am entrapped in sin - these powers are too strong for man or woman! Its intellectually lazy to just say we are chosing to remain in sin - address this issue i have just raised if you could...

No no no. God created Lucifer not devil. He became devil when evil was found in him. do a personal study on this.

Obalende:


You have written a very wicked piece. Listen to me: God created a devil designated as a tempter, God also created demons to do evil biddings of entrapping us in sin, gave us sinful natures - then how is it my choice that i am entrapped in sin - these powers are too strong for man or woman! Its intellectually lazy to just say we are chosing to remain in sin - address this issue i have just raised if you could...

God created LUCIFER not DEVIL luci became Devil when EVIL was found in him.
I suggest u do a personal study on Lucifer. trust me u need it

chrisav:

His foolishness is wiser than the wisdom of men( 1 Corinthians 1:25)

I hope u discover that someday maybe not too late. regards

His foolishness is too much and all men are wiser than him

1 Lagosians 1:25

shadeyinka:


God knew they would fail ...but God also knows that within the failure, there will come out the cream of His creation. From the Pains and Tribulations caused by sin, and out of death comes life.

The creators/inventors of the Aeroplane knew that thousands will die from plane crash BUT the joy of Fast Long distant travels and improvements in aviation technology is worth the price.

We take injections even when we know that it would be painful. Ladies get pregnant even when the pains of child delivery is almost unbearable.

@bolded,That's the most important answer in your post and the only relevant one here.
Nothing more to say.

chrisav:

whatever we fail to understand we oppose. Free will is the ability to choose between different courses of action.
Don't get it twisted, every CAUSE has an EFFECT.
if you decided to jump from a storey building today God will not stop you because u have free will but trust me the consequence that follows u must suffer.
somebody rightly puts it. " I can guarantee u freedom of speech but what I can't guarantee u is freedom after speech"
regards

I have one question for you.
Will you knowingly put a cocked gun near your child to play with?

Hanabian:

I have one question for you.
Will you knowingly put a cocked gun near your child to play with?

That question is illogical.
Chrisav had answered you perfectly.

Don't gloss over his words about CHOICE and EFFECT

chrisav:


Not true
nothing paradoxical about his claim. God doesn't predestine ( decree) evil.
The evil u see in this cosmos is from the devil and demons which live in men

Lamentation 3:38, Isiah 45:7

Ngo40:


Brother,
You seem extremely angry....why is that so?
The Bible is the blueprint.....which followers of Christ are supposed to use as their guide.
But you are angry with God....since its ultimately His book...His words...
Yes it points out negatives....but it also offers solutions...

As the bible is the "blueprint", we're all free to pick slaves of our choice. I pick you!

shadeyinka:

That question is illogical. Chrisav had answered you perfectly.
Don't gloss over his words about CHOICE and EFFECT

Exactly what made the question illogical?

shadeyinka:


Where did I say God controls everything we do?

God doesn't control what we do. The is the purpose of free will is for man to choose his direction within any constraint je finds himself. He also has been warned to choose wisely either to align yourself with Gods will or go contrary.

Its simple:
Its like your Father gave you a Porsche Car with a speedometer that maxes at 400 km/h with an instruction for you not to exceed 120km/h.

Yes, you have a free will either to stay within the speed limit or not, but don't also forget that there may be a consequence for over speeding which may involve you accidentally killing someone else, getting maimed etc.

Can we blame your father for giving you a Porsche rather than a Tractor as a means of transportation?

You just don't get it do you. In your illustration, your father is not the creator, neither is he omniscience. Hence, he doesn't know whether you'll over-speed with your Porsche, he can only hope.
On the other-hand, god is presumably Omniscience, omnipresence and every other omni you can ascribe to him. Hence, prior to creation, he foresaw that man would eat the fruit from that tree and still went ahead to plant it in the garden. Later he turns around to punish us?!
Bullocks!!

Hanabian:

Exactly what made the question illogical?

You said:
I have one question for you.
Will you knowingly put a cocked gun near your child to play with?

Did God ask Adam to Play with the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil?

Hanabian:

@bolded,That's the most important answer in your post and the only relevant one here.
Nothing more to say.

Just a confirmation of how you reason with 3% of available information.

SMH

Hanabian, so would it have been better if we were never created

Or, created without free will

shadeyinka:


Just a confirmation of how you reason with 3% of available information.

SMH

I hate name calling or referring to the illogical use of the brain,so don't descend into that arena.
However, if you can allow something bad to happen to your child when you could have prevented it,then Goodluck to you.

Challspace:


You just don't get it do you. In your illustration, your father is not the creator, neither is he omniscience. Hence, he doesn't know whether you'll over-speed with your Porsche, he can only hope.
On the other-hand, god is presumably Omniscience, omnipresence and every other omni you can ascribe to him. Hence, prior to creation, he foresaw that man would eat the fruit from that tree and still went ahead to plant it in the garden. Later he turns around to punish us?!
Bullocks!!

I don't know why this simple thing is hard for them to comprehend.
Maybe they just hear omnipotent and omniscient and have never bothered to check its meaning.

shadeyinka:


You said:
I have one question for you.
Will you knowingly put a cocked gun near your child to play with?

Did God ask Adam to Play with the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil?

Answer the question bro.
The question I asked you has nothing to do with God.

EnigmaticEnigma:
Hanabian, so would it have been better if we were never created

Or, created without free will

Freewill or no freewill, the main message here is that the God who created the Universe could not have been the biblical God because the biblical God is full of self contradictions.
People should live their life without thinking they are offending some made up God who exhibits every known characteristics of humans.
A God who is All-Knowing is not supposed to "regret".

Hanabian:

I hate name calling or referring to the illogical use of the brain,so don't descend into that arena.
However, if you can allow something bad to happen to your child when you could have prevented it,then Goodluck to you.

Will you allow your son to join the Army?

shadeyinka:

Will you allow your son to join the Army?

You can keep running around instead of answering a simple question. Its none of my business.
They say to know the truth,you have to answer truthful questions truthfully!