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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Atheism Does Not Reject Religion , It Is Extremely Stupid Atheists Think It Does (28028 Views)
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Re: Atheism Does Not Reject Religion , It Is Extremely Stupid Atheists Think It Does by KingEbukasBlog(m): 9:47am On Jul 31, 2017 |
CatfishBilly: The video link I posted to you explains this perfectly . I don't see how this disproves what I said. Time before the big bang was inconsequential. The laws of physics and nature more or less degenerates, so, no one could say with absolute certainty what happened, theists and theologians just took the easy way out and said God. Therefore the universe came from nothing ? Ok, fair enough. See my latest response to Johnydon22 |
Re: Atheism Does Not Reject Religion , It Is Extremely Stupid Atheists Think It Does by spacetacular(f): 9:49am On Jul 31, 2017 |
CoolUsername: I would suggest you read this article from time magazine http://time.com/77676/why-science-does-not-disprove-god/ Based on that article I could theorise that the universe functions like a microwave appliance. If there was a Big Bang and a speculative big crunch would happen in the future you would need to ask yourself, how is it that the universe (which isn't alive) would steadily and precisely reverse itself to a big crunch in the future. It's believed that for that to even be plausible then a TIMER was set from outside the microwave appliance. Something or someone triggered the beginning and set the parameters for its ending within the limits of time. The way the universe is moving along does not suggest an erratic pattern. Neither does it suggest trial and errors. If indeed the universe has existed for billions of years by now the earth should have been depleted or run its full cycle as a part of the universe. But this is not so. Instead we see an increase in beauty. Even in a game of billiards with its simple 16 balls the one with the cue stick has to calculate force and trajectory BEFORE setting things in motion and this is so because he has to determine the events thereafter. This is the universe in simplistic form how much more that in complex form as we know it. Who calculated force and trajectory for the universe? Randomness? How many times did randomness attempt this random move? And if randomness did where did this randomness originate from? Nothing or something? if nothing, then where did something come from? You can read about the author here https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amir_Aczel His works would interest you. 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Atheism Does Not Reject Religion , It Is Extremely Stupid Atheists Think It Does by KingEbukasBlog(m): 9:53am On Jul 31, 2017 |
CoolUsername: This is just one problem you have . I'm always careful to note out positions that certain people hold on a particular concept and not generalize but you just don't seem to care . And stop pontificating for crying out loud There are 3 concepts of creation and one of them disagrees with non-existence as the default of reality What if the universe in some form has always existed? What if ? Lol So how does this preclude infinite regress ? What did the 1,000,698,006th form of the universe take ? Oh wait ! What did the 2,405,569,382,687th form of the universe take ? Do you think these things through , because apparently you don't . 2 Likes |
Re: Atheism Does Not Reject Religion , It Is Extremely Stupid Atheists Think It Does by spacetacular(f): 10:05am On Jul 31, 2017 |
KingEbukasBlog: And Jackfizzle thinks atheism is modern He never disappoints me. 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Atheism Does Not Reject Religion , It Is Extremely Stupid Atheists Think It Does by KingEbukasBlog(m): 10:10am On Jul 31, 2017 |
CoolUsername: johnydon22: No no my brothers . Nothing or non existence there means material . Immaterial is seen as nothing or non existent from the materialist point of view . God is an immaterial being . 1 Like |
Re: Atheism Does Not Reject Religion , It Is Extremely Stupid Atheists Think It Does by KingEbukasBlog(m): 10:15am On Jul 31, 2017 |
spacetacular: Many atheists don't even know the history of atheism . Atheists then were not even taken seriously because there claims were suffused with ignorance . The ancient Charvaka atheist materialist school claimed that the universe is made up water , earth , fire and air . I think they were the ones that first brought up the idea of an eternal universe because they claimed that the universe not God is eternal and an eternal universe precludes God's existence . Thank God modern science has rubbished those claims with surfeit evidence that the universe indeed had a beginning . 3 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Atheism Does Not Reject Religion , It Is Extremely Stupid Atheists Think It Does by spacetacular(f): 10:21am On Jul 31, 2017 |
KingEbukasBlog: Atheism began as a school of speculative thinking with a lot of fantasy and till date has not deviated from its origin. I read Jackfizzle make a comment directed at me somewhere that he was arguing based on SCIENCE FICTION and not Science. It got me tied up in knots with laughter. 2 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Atheism Does Not Reject Religion , It Is Extremely Stupid Atheists Think It Does by johnydon22(m): 10:24am On Jul 31, 2017 |
KingEbukasBlog: But still something that exists isn't it? |
Re: Atheism Does Not Reject Religion , It Is Extremely Stupid Atheists Think It Does by CatfishBilly: 10:24am On Jul 31, 2017 |
KingEbukasBlog:Guth in that same video also said that there could be a pre history to the Origin of the universe, but the universe as we know it definitely had a beginning. There are other models that don't agree with Vilenkin's theorem example, eternal inflation (Aguirre-Gratton model) Therefore the universe came from nothing ?Nobody knows, theologists and theists are saying I don't know, therefore God. See my latest response to Johnydon22Do you mean John Lennox? All I see there is, I don't know, so it has to be God, it must be God. Ain't that argument from incredulity? That's a summary of his position. 3 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Atheism Does Not Reject Religion , It Is Extremely Stupid Atheists Think It Does by KingEbukasBlog(m): 10:33am On Jul 31, 2017 |
CatfishBilly: There could be ? I hope you know that such hope is both chimerical and delusional . You conducted a research and your research tells you that the universe has a beginning but you just had to hope that somewhere just somewhere there could be another universe before this one ? There are other models that don't agree with Vilenkin's theorem example, eternal inflation. With no evidence to support them , so we can dismiss them right ? Nobody knows, theologists and theists are saying I don't know, therefore God. We know , only the atheists speculate and fantasize Do you mean John Lennox? No , laws of physics do not create anything - it is not speculation , it is a fact . 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Atheism Does Not Reject Religion , It Is Extremely Stupid Atheists Think It Does by Ermacc: 10:35am On Jul 31, 2017 |
johnydon22:You are also making confident remarks on the eternity of the universe based on mere speculations. If you have really followed the hawkins lectures, you would have gone across the backlash it has received. Big bang isn't a fact and pre big bang will only be laughable. 2 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Atheism Does Not Reject Religion , It Is Extremely Stupid Atheists Think It Does by KingEbukasBlog(m): 10:36am On Jul 31, 2017 |
spacetacular: The Multiverse theory especially came from science fiction . It was science fiction for mere entertainment before atheist scientists started considering such as a new way to explain away God . There is no evidence to support it and a multiverse still does not preclude the existence of God . 2 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Atheism Does Not Reject Religion , It Is Extremely Stupid Atheists Think It Does by hopefulLandlord: 10:36am On Jul 31, 2017 |
This new discussion on origin of the universe should've been on another thread the topic of the main thread is very dumb and senseless as atheists can talk about religion as they reject it too, doesn't matter if there are some atheists that accept some form of religion, a non religious atheist should be able to criticise a "religious" one and vice versa |
Re: Atheism Does Not Reject Religion , It Is Extremely Stupid Atheists Think It Does by johnydon22(m): 10:37am On Jul 31, 2017 |
KingEbukasBlog: And this post totally steered clear of Hawkins talks in the Brief history of time. Here let me post Hawkins point under the premise. "It seems that Quantum theory, on the other hand, can predict how the universe will begin. Quantum theory introduces a new idea, that of imaginary time. Imaginary time may sound like science fiction, and it has been brought into Doctor Who. But nevertheless, it is a genuine scientific concept. One can picture it in the following way. One can think of ordinary, real, time as a horizontal line. On the left, one has the past, and on the right, the future. But there's another kind of time in the vertical direction. This is called imaginary time, because it is not the kind of time we normally experience. But in a sense, it is just as real, as what we call real time. The three directions in space, and the one direction of imaginary time, make up what is called a Euclidean space-time. I don't think anyone can picture a four dimensional curve space. But it is not too difficult to visualise a two dimensional surface, like a saddle, or the surface of a football. In fact, James Hartle of the University of California Santa Barbara, and I have proposed that space and imaginary time together, are indeed finite in extent, but without boundary. They would be like the surface of the Earth, but with two more dimensions. The surface of the Earth is finite in extent, but it doesn't have any boundaries or edges. I have been round the world, and I didn't fall off. If space and imaginary time are indeed like the surface of the Earth, there wouldn't be any singularities in the imaginary time direction, at which the laws of physics would break down. And there wouldn't be any boundaries, to the imaginary time space-time, just as there aren't any boundaries to the surface of the Earth. This absence of boundaries means that the laws of physics would determine the state of the universe uniquely, in imaginary time. But if one knows the state of the universe in imaginary time, one can calculate the state of the universe in real time. One would still expect some sort of Big Bang singularity in real time. So real time would still have a beginning. But one wouldn't have to appeal to something outside the universe, to determine how the universe began. Instead, the way the universe started out at the Big Bang would be determined by the state of the universe in imaginary time. Thus, the universe would be a completely self-contained system. It would not be determined by anything outside the physical universe, that we observe. " If the universe started at a Singularity then as Hawkin implied on his talk, at a singularity solving from the theory of relativity the Laws of Physics does not apply, therefore Quantum mechanics is needed to find a solution to this. You see after all said and done we get at the crossroad, Hawkin talked about time and space being birthed by a singularity which by definition is infinite but remarkably said nothing about such singularity having a beginning. I believe its now falling into place, space/time have an origin at a singularity. Yes. Does science or Hawkin's lecture also imply this singularity had a beginning? Now when someone tells you that Science is yet to arrive at a consensus on the cosmos having a beginning, don't pull out Hawkins lecture on time.(Mind you Hawkins lecture was not his opinion but rather a summary of the cosmological progress made yet in the scientific enterprise) The cosmos may or may yet no have a beginning - this is an uncertainty, you may do well and find roles for God, I have gone past the stage of haggling over such trivial assertions. Until we conclusively reach a closure on the state of the cosmos, consequently the implications of the big bang theory remains no matter what your opinion is. "Anything outside our space/time is irrelevant and has no observational consequence, therefore is of no use or meaning to us since it cannot perform functions within our space/time" Let's represent the models we discuss as they are and not cherrypick opinions we think agrees with us. 2 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Atheism Does Not Reject Religion , It Is Extremely Stupid Atheists Think It Does by johnydon22(m): 10:39am On Jul 31, 2017 |
Ermacc: I have not made any such remark. My stance remains we are yet to scientifically reach a conclusion that the cosmos is not eternal or is eternal. And yes disagreements are the soul of the progress of science. Surely pre-big band would be laughable going by Hawkin's lecture which is a subject of discuss here, anything like pre-big bang is of no observational consequence therefore can be neglected and meaningless to us |
Re: Atheism Does Not Reject Religion , It Is Extremely Stupid Atheists Think It Does by spacetacular(f): 10:41am On Jul 31, 2017 |
johnydon22: God does not simply exist! God is the cause of existence. In a nutshell, GOD IS! God is the one who was before existence began as we know it. We talk about existence from the human materialistic nature but the intangibility of the spiritual does not talk about existence as we know it. It's like trying to say you know the origin of the wind. You could say the wind is caused by the sun heating the earth and causing air to rise and then the earth's rotation causing the wind to move anticlockwise or Coriolis effect but can there be wind without air? Air is made up of various gases but without the cause of these gases can we have air? If you keep following this backwards you would surely know that PURPOSE was behind all things. Have you bothered to find out what the earth would be like if there was absolutely no wind? I suggest you look into this and then tell me about your no intelligence behind creation theory. 1 Like |
Re: Atheism Does Not Reject Religion , It Is Extremely Stupid Atheists Think It Does by hopefulLandlord: 10:42am On Jul 31, 2017 |
chemystery: 3 Likes
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Re: Atheism Does Not Reject Religion , It Is Extremely Stupid Atheists Think It Does by johnydon22(m): 10:42am On Jul 31, 2017 |
spacetacular: Ok. Can I now continue my discussion? |
Re: Atheism Does Not Reject Religion , It Is Extremely Stupid Atheists Think It Does by hopefulLandlord: 10:43am On Jul 31, 2017 |
Our British surgeon is too "intelligent" to notice John is ignoring her posts, "intelligence" does have its downside |
Re: Atheism Does Not Reject Religion , It Is Extremely Stupid Atheists Think It Does by spacetacular(f): 10:45am On Jul 31, 2017 |
hopefulLandlord: You are clearly extremely myopic not to see that everyone is ignoring yours. Now it's time to throw in distracting memes just to be noticed. 3 Likes 2 Shares |
Re: Atheism Does Not Reject Religion , It Is Extremely Stupid Atheists Think It Does by hopefulLandlord: 10:46am On Jul 31, 2017 |
spacetacular: okay, you're correct Mrs Tu Quoque |
Re: Atheism Does Not Reject Religion , It Is Extremely Stupid Atheists Think It Does by spacetacular(f): 10:47am On Jul 31, 2017 |
hopefulLandlord: oh and by the way John is in a fix. So he chooses to ignore those things that would further put him in a fix. When reality collides with Atheistic fantasy . You know the rest. 2 Likes |
Re: Atheism Does Not Reject Religion , It Is Extremely Stupid Atheists Think It Does by CatfishBilly: 10:47am On Jul 31, 2017 |
KingEbukasBlog:You seem to have ignored the "as we know it part" of his statement. His position is that the present observable universe as we know it has a beginning, but, it is plausible that it existed in another form being the pre history of the present observable universe. I don't see what's delusional about that position With no evidence to support them , so we can dismiss them right ?There's evidence. Aguirre A and Gratton S (2002). Steady-state eternal inflation; We know , only the atheists speculate and fantasizeYou know this how? Through philosophy and theology? Hours of painstaking scientific work? No , laws of physics do not create anything - it is not speculation , it is a fact .Nobody said that the laws of physics created anything. I didn't. Lennox doesn't know, it's a classic argument from incredulity. Ask him how it happened all you'll hear is intense mental gymnastics. 4 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Atheism Does Not Reject Religion , It Is Extremely Stupid Atheists Think It Does by hopefulLandlord: 10:49am On Jul 31, 2017 |
spacetacular: you're correct 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Atheism Does Not Reject Religion , It Is Extremely Stupid Atheists Think It Does by felixomor: 10:49am On Jul 31, 2017 |
CatfishBilly: Please go and learn Earth is part of this universe. And even if you are correct, then its components which would have also been components of the previous universe will have no age. The sun, earth, stars all have carbon as part of it. If you say the universe is eternal, you are only spoiling your logic. Because the estimated ages of these bodies will all be wrong. You will end up running around a circle 2 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Atheism Does Not Reject Religion , It Is Extremely Stupid Atheists Think It Does by johnydon22(m): 10:51am On Jul 31, 2017 |
KingEbukasBlog: I am quite certain that the possibilities of other galaxies was once a subject of science fiction. Rev fr geodano Bruno was burnt at the stake for daring to assume there may be countless number of worlds some inhabited. The Multiverse theory is just as much inclusion of external influence as God, no less observationally feasible as God. So as I have maintained the lesson is clear: these are of no relevance within our space/time (universe) |
Re: Atheism Does Not Reject Religion , It Is Extremely Stupid Atheists Think It Does by johnydon22(m): 10:54am On Jul 31, 2017 |
felixomor: So if the universe is 15billion years we could then say that everything in the universe is 15billion years going by this logic, Yes? |
Re: Atheism Does Not Reject Religion , It Is Extremely Stupid Atheists Think It Does by felixomor: 10:54am On Jul 31, 2017 |
johnydon22: Bros, everything you say is your wishes. Not scientific facts. The age of the universe is well documented. Please cite one credible reference for eternal universe. Its very obvious you have no idea what the laws of thermodynamics states. That is why you are attributing a kind of consciousness to the universe by calling it a self sustaining system. Anyway, I am waiting for you to cite credible documents for eternal Universe. |
Re: Atheism Does Not Reject Religion , It Is Extremely Stupid Atheists Think It Does by spacetacular(f): 10:55am On Jul 31, 2017 |
johnydon22: Erwin Schrodinger originated the multiverse theory and guess what he was and why he theorised it. |
Re: Atheism Does Not Reject Religion , It Is Extremely Stupid Atheists Think It Does by felixomor: 10:57am On Jul 31, 2017 |
johnydon22:If 15 billion is correct Then Yes at the level of the core constituting elements. |
Re: Atheism Does Not Reject Religion , It Is Extremely Stupid Atheists Think It Does by CatfishBilly: 10:57am On Jul 31, 2017 |
felixomor:So, the earth, sun and stars all formed immediately the big bang happened, abi? Interesting! The components of the "previous universe" can't be tested because carbon dating wasn't done, the age of the present observable universe was calculated from its rate of expansion, how is that difficult to understand? |
Re: Atheism Does Not Reject Religion , It Is Extremely Stupid Atheists Think It Does by felixomor: 10:58am On Jul 31, 2017 |
CatfishBilly: If it cant be tested, Then stop assuming. You are only desperate to replace "God", or "first cause" hence your "previous universe" assumptions |
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