If the Qur'an affirms the Gospels, then It contradicts itself

The Qur'an says the gospels are not corrupted yet the Gospels contradict the Qur'an. Therefore, the Qur'an is not true.

https://carm.org/if-the-quran-is-true-then-islam-is-

See other related topics:

https://www.nairaland.com/1876086/arab-secular-woman-speaking-truth

https://www.nairaland.com/3251257/dramatic-construction-muslims-response-reading#47919171

https://www.nairaland.com/3649672/allah-what-origin-belief-allah#54041395

https://www.nairaland.com/2587564/10-things-muslims-dont-want#37836660

https://www.nairaland.com/2419874/comparison-between-jesus-muhammad#35373742

https://www.nairaland.com/3863695/richard-dawkins-reveals-why-islam#57552144

https://www.nairaland.com/3775716/6-big-reasons-why-islam#56141886

https://www.nairaland.com/3965454/quran-affirms-gospels-then-it#59123948

OLAADEGBU:
If the Qur'an affirms the Gospels, then It contradicts itself

The Qur'an says the gospels are not corrupted yet the Gospels contradict the Qur'an. Therefore, the Qur'an is not true.

https://carm.org/if-the-quran-is-true-then-islam-is-false

Islam is the religion of satan.

701ecilana:


Islam is the religion of satan.

The Qur'an affirms the Gospels, which contradict the Qur'an. If the Qur'an is true it defeats itself by affirming documents that contradicts it.

Very true. The Muslims have no excuse to give concerning their salvation. No sensible Muslim will remain a Muslim after reading the Koran.

OLAADEGBU:
If the Qur'an affirms the Gospels, then It contradicts itself

The Qur'an says the gospels are not corrupted yet the Gospels contradict the Qur'an. Therefore, the Qur'an is not true.

https://carm.org/if-the-quran-is-true-then-islam-is-false

wrong interpretation !

aminusanti:
wrong interpretation !

Hey Aminu how far? Long time no see your nose. What's going on?

So, what's the right interpretation?

"No normal human being accepts Islam and remains normal afterwards" - socrates

701ecilana:

Hey Aminu how far? Long time no see your nose. What's going on?

Alhamdulillah am good just got fed up of all this recycled arguments .

So, what's the right interpretation?

Those misquoted verses are simply stating that Allah's promises are always fulfilled and no one could change that.

One could easily change and distort texts by picking up a book and a pen, but they could not change the original true texts and revelations which is with Allah
Removing the words from the books here on earth does not mean that God's words have become totally lost but lost here on earth only.

"The Torah & Gospel REMAIN AS ALLAH REVEALED THEM, AND NO LETTER IN THEM WAS REMOVED. However, the people misguide others by addition and false interpretation, relying on books that they wrote themselves

ALLAH is saying in the verse below the Christians and Jews miss-interpret these 2 books, and go on to make books up which they wrote with their own hands! This is exactly what we Muslims believe, we believe in the true Torah, and the true Gospel and we believe that no one can ever corrupt the true originals. However what they can do is misinterpret the true books, and after this they can go on to write fake books and then claim that the fake books they wrote with their hands are from Allah and are the Gospel and Torah.

«Quran 2:79»
"So woe to those who write the "scripture" with their own hands, then say, "This is from Allah ," in order to exchange it for a small price. Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for what they earn."

What we have today is not a Gospel but GospelS, we do not have the Gospel of Jesus, rather we have the Gospel of Mark, Matthew, Luke, and John! Hence the Christians have invented their own books with their hands and claim that these books that were written by men such as Mark and Matthew are from God! Yet we know they are not from God, and we know they are a corrupted distorted version of the true Gospel which was the Gospel of Jesus. The four Gospels we have today were written after Jesus, which were based on many false interpretations and guess-work, which was then written down in ink, and then many claimed that these Gospels were from God.

aminusanti:

Alhamdulillah am good just got fed up of all this recycled arguments .



Those misquoted verses are simply stating that Allah's promises are always fulfilled and no one could change that.

One could easily change and distort texts by picking up a book and a pen, but they could not change the original true texts and revelations which is with Allah
Removing the words from the books here on earth does not mean that God's words have become totally lost but lost here on earth only.

"The Torah & Gospel REMAIN AS ALLAH REVEALED THEM, AND NO LETTER IN THEM WAS REMOVED. However, the people misguide others by addition and false interpretation, relying on books that they wrote themselves

ALLAH is saying in the verse below the Christians and Jews miss-interpret these 2 books, and go on to make books up which they wrote with their own hands! This is exactly what we Muslims believe, we believe in the true Torah, and the true Gospel and we believe that no one can ever corrupt the true originals. However what they can do is misinterpret the true books, and after this they can go on to write fake books and then claim that the fake books they wrote with their hands are from Allah and are the Gospel and Torah.

«Quran 2:79»
"So woe to those who write the "scripture" with their own hands, then say, "This is from Allah ," in order to exchange it for a small price. Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for what they earn."

What we have today is not a Gospel but GospelS, we do not have the Gospel of Jesus, rather we have the Gospel of Mark, Matthew, Luke, and John! Hence the Christians have invented their own books with their hands and claim that these books that were written by men such as Mark and Matthew are from God! Yet we know they are not from God, and we know they are a corrupted distorted version of the true Gospel which was the Gospel of Jesus. The four Gospels we have today were written after Jesus, which were based on many false interpretations and guess-work, which was then written down in ink, and then many claimed that these Gospels were from God.

Clap for yourself because no logical or reasonable person, outside Islam, will believe in your cockk and bull story.

In order for Muslims worldwide to discredit allahh and promote Islam, you claim that the Torah and the injil had been corrupted even when allahh had said his words/books can *NEVER* be corrupted. To escape this problem, Muslims now invented a new lie (Muslims are great inventors of lies and conspiracy theories) that the original copies of the Torah and the injil are in heaven with allahh while the fake copies are with the Jews and the Christians. Where did you get this info from? Is there any Quranic passage or an hadith narration that support this claim? Is this your personal deduction, or is there any 'fatwa' issued by the ulama on this? I need your clarification.

You quoted surah 2 ayah 79 to buttress your points on this. This further exposed your desperation and lies on the subject matter because we kafirs have read your Quran, hadith, the sunbath and the sira hence you cannot easily get away with your lies like before. The ayah you quoted was referring to Abdullah Ibn sa'ad Ibn Abi darh, the half brother of the 3rd khalifa, Uthman Ibn Affan.

Abdullah Ibn sa'ad Ibn Abi sarh was the scribe who usually helped Mohammed to write down any alleged (no proof) revelation he received from an entity whom he called allahh. As a matter of fact, Mohammed allegedly received revelations while Abdullah Ibn Sa'ad wrote some of them down because Mohammed was said to be an illiterate Arabian man. At a time Abdullah Ibn Saad was writing another thing while Mohammed was dictating another thing entirely. When Mohammed discover what he was doing, or he did (he must have asked another literate person to proof-read what Ibn Sa'ad wrote) he (Mohammed) became angry and allahh revealed Quran 2:79 to him. He also revealed Quran 6:93 concerning this incident.

Abdullah Ibn Saad, upon learning that Mohammed had discovered what he did ran away and went to his step-brother Uthman Ibn Affan to helped him beg Mohammed for forgiveness. Uthman brought him to Mohammed and pleaded that he should be forgiven but Mohammed didn't say a single word. Abdullah Ibn Sa'ad mistook his silence and thought that the prophet of allahh had truly forgiven him hence walked away peacefully. Mohammed became furious with his armies and asked them why they didn't kill him immediately but the soldiers said they didn't get any sign from the messenger of allahh to kill him. Mohammed then scolded his sahabas that a prophet of God does not wink. You can read your Islamic materials 'Al Sirah Al Nawabiya' by Ibn Hisham, chapter IV, paged 57 and 58. Also read 'Al sira Al Halabiya' by Al Halabi, chapter 3, page 90 to have a brighter picture of this incident. Do your research well, get your facts right so that you dont come online to disgrace yourself.

It is ridiculous that allahh, the alleged 'all-wise and all-knowing' would allow human beings, of over 2billion Jews and Christians, to posses a 'corrupted' religious text while he regained the original copy in heaven, according to Muslims. Then allahh is not wise but deceptive.

Dereformer:
"No normal human being accepts Islam and remains normal afterwards" - socrates

lying in the name of Socrates? Why?

OtemAtum:
lying in the name of Socrates? Why?

because Abrahamic religions are built on lies, that explains why they can only be sustained by more lies

OtemAtum:
lying in the name of Socrates? Why?

The guy was just being sarcastic. Of course lying is an Islamic trade mark and one of the 'pillars' of Islam.

hopefulLandlord:


because Abrahamic religions are built on lies, that explains why they can only be sustained by more lies

As soon as lies go into extinction, christianity will evaporate. But can lie go into extinction without the rapture of the saints?

true2god:
The guy was just being sarcastic. Of course lying is an Islamic trade mark and one of the 'pillars' of Islam.

True islam is a body of lie, but their lies are learners compared to Christian lies.

aminusanti:

Alhamdulillah am good just got fed up of all this recycled arguments .



Those misquoted verses are simply stating that Allah's promises are always fulfilled and no one could change that.

One could easily change and distort texts by picking up a book and a pen, but they could not change the original true texts and revelations which is with Allah
Removing the words from the books here on earth does not mean that God's words have become totally lost but lost here on earth only.

"The Torah & Gospel REMAIN AS ALLAH REVEALED THEM, AND NO LETTER IN THEM WAS REMOVED. However, the people misguide others by addition and false interpretation, relying on books that they wrote themselves

ALLAH is saying in the verse below the Christians and Jews miss-interpret these 2 books, and go on to make books up which they wrote with their own hands! This is exactly what we Muslims believe, we believe in the true Torah, and the true Gospel and we believe that no one can ever corrupt the true originals. However what they can do is misinterpret the true books, and after this they can go on to write fake books and then claim that the fake books they wrote with their hands are from Allah and are the Gospel and Torah.

«Quran 2:79»
"So woe to those who write the "scripture" with their own hands, then say, "This is from Allah ," in order to exchange it for a small price. Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for what they earn."

What we have today is not a Gospel but GospelS, we do not have the Gospel of Jesus, rather we have the Gospel of Mark, Matthew, Luke, and John! Hence the Christians have invented their own books with their hands and claim that these books that were written by men such as Mark and Matthew are from God! Yet we know they are not from God, and we know they are a corrupted distorted version of the true Gospel which was the Gospel of Jesus. The four Gospels we have today were written after Jesus, which were based on many false interpretations and guess-work, which was then written down in ink, and then many claimed that these Gospels were from God.

Aminu see eh, this issue is an issue that anytime i read or hear you guys talk about it, i'd be like, how is this possible?

Let's take them point by point.

aminusanti:

Those misquoted verses are simply stating that Allah's promises are always fulfilled and no one could change that.

If Allah's promises are always fulfilled and can not be changed, why then are men able to change his words, by replacing and misquoting them?

Let me give you an example. Long time ago, from the mouth of the prophet Jeremiah, God (whom you say is allah) says that His promises will not only remain with and, for the Jews only, but he will make a new covenant which will make allowance and accomodate the non-Jew so that they too can enjoy his promises.

He fulfilled it by bring Jesus Christ, through whom we the gentles are now part of that covenant. And He, (God) said that when he will do this, He will make the Jews obstinate to his New Move. And we see the Jews obstinate today. They have rejected that new move by rejecting Jeaus Christ. This is how you know that the Word of God can not be tampered with by mere men.

"

So woe to those who write the "scripture" with their own hands, then say, "This is from Allah ," in order to exchange it for a small price. Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for what they earn

The koran says the above. The Bible says Below

I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be for ever: nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it: and God doeth it, that men should fear before him

Ecclesiastes:3:14
Jehovah said this, if Jehovah is the same as allah, that means allah said this too. Could allah be speaking from both sides of his mouth?

He claims men added and subtracted from His words, hmmmm Something must be wrong somewhere. Are you following?

aminusanti:

One could easily change and distort texts by picking up a book and a pen, but they could not change the original true texts and revelations which is with Allah
Removing the words from the books here on earth does not mean that God's words have become totally lost but lost here on earth only.

Okay, i think there's something we are missing here, there's no way any man can successfully change an eternal book like the Bible, you know why? The Bible is a book of instructions on how to live and conduct yourself daily. The book of the future (Prophesies) of which some are fulfilled, some are being fulfilled now and some are yet to be fulfilled. It's a book of principles, concepts, ordinances precepts and statutes. The principles, ordiances precepts andnstatutes are still applicable to human existences today. If there are changed there'll be definitely be clashes Aminu nah. Open your eyes.

If men can change the word of God as you said, can man change the prophecies that Bible talks about?

What the prophesies says will happen are happening. While there's no one single prophecy coming from the koran that we are expecting fulfilment. Is there Any?

Remember also the Word is made for Man not for gods or God, if He allows Men to pervert and tamper with his Word, do you not think he will do everything to preserve the original of that copy so that His real followers can gain access to it?

Let me give you another example. When the Catholic Church ruled the world, They hid the Original Bible (They didn't change it, they couldn't change it) just hid it and showed the people only what they wanted the People to know, God raised a man within them, a man called Martin Luther to see the original Bible, he took it and read, began to teach from it. Persecution broke loose, but many got to know that there was a conspiracy to hide the original Bible. From then till date, the Catholic Church has been trying to fight and keep the truth away from others, but the Holy Spirit kept raising men to reveal the truth.

Question; Why hasn't allah been able to preserve at least one copy of the original Bible, both the Tora and the Gospel so that now that you guys claim that the one we have is not the original you can be bold to present the original to us?

Now when you say the Torah and Gospel has been perverted, misinterpreted and changed, Aminu, you are insulting allah and calling him incompetent. How can God allow his words to be changed by men?

The Word of God can not be changed. No matter how hard you tried, the Holy Spirit who wrote and is preserving it will reveal it. One of the persons hiding or who changed it will be convicted by the Holy Spirit and it will be revealed.

aminusanti:

"The Torah & Gospel REMAIN AS ALLAH REVEALED THEM, AND NO LETTER IN THEM WAS REMOVED. However, the people misguide others by addition and false interpretation, relying on books that they wrote themselves

You contradict yourself here. If the Torah & the Gospel are the way allah revealed them, nothing changed or removed, why then did the koran say it's been changed? Isn't that the purpose of this Op?

Which are these books which men wrote themselves pls? Do you realize that the koran is a reported speach? Allah tells jibril, jibril tells muhammed, muhmmed tells his his followers, his followers told you, yet you believed allah wrote your koran with his own hands. lol

aminusanti:

ALLAH is saying in the verse below the Christians and Jews miss-interpret these 2 books, and go on to make books up which they wrote with their own hands! This is exactly what we Muslims believe, we believe in the true Torah, and the true Gospel and we believe that no one can ever corrupt the true originals. However what they can do is misinterpret the true books, and after this they can go on to write fake books and then claim that the fake books they wrote with their hands are from Allah and are the Gospel and Torah[qoute]

Wait did allah just say the Christians and the Jews miss interpreted these books? Does allah know that the Jews do not believe what the Christians believe? How possible is it that people who don't believe in the same thing could agree and have a meeting point to change their own religious books? What will be their aim?

Now, fine, let's say they did. For allah to make this claim, shouldn't allah have provided the original copy from where the Jews and Christians looked in order to misinterpret their books? Pls ask allah, where you fine the Original, at least one copy?

Aminu is Allah lying here? Who makes claims without evidence?

[quote author=aminusanti post=59162587]
What we have today is not a Gospel but GospelS, we do not have the Gospel of Jesus, rather we have the Gospel of Mark, Matthew, Luke, and John! Hence the Christians have invented their own books with their hands and claim that these books that were written by men such as Mark and Matthew are from God! Yet we know they are not from God, and we know they are a corrupted distorted version of the true Gospel which was the Gospel of Jesus. The four Gospels we have today were written after Jesus, which were based on many false interpretations and guess-work, which was then written down in ink, and then many claimed that these Gospels were from God

So Jesus wrote a book which he called the Gospel?
Aminu, where is it? Pls ask your Islamic Clerics to present the Gospel written by Jesus himself. They must have one copy preserved somewhere. Why don't you ask yourself this question? To have a counterfeit, there must be an original. Let's agree what we now have is counterfeit, now pls where is the original? You mean allah couldn't preserve his own Words?

So now allah is letting us believe in a counterfeit Bible. what will be his justification for condemning us when he by himself allowed his words to be perverted?

.

hopefulLandlord:


because Abrahamic religions are built on lies, that explains why they can only be sustained by more lies

There's a compulsion in you to make you comment even when you shouldn't right? We know that Abrahamic religions are built on lies, can you rest now?

Why does it concern you so much? Am not concern that you worship satan and have sex with dogs, why should it concern you so much that i worship a non existent God?

OtemAtum:
As soon as lies go into extinction, christianity will evaporate. But can lie go into extinction without the rapture of the saints?

Dogs are to be kept in chains, especially mad ones. Just saying.

701ecilana:

There's a compulsion in you to make you comment even when you shouldn't right? We know that Abrahamic religions are built on lies, can you rest now?

Why does it concern you so much? Am not concern that you worship satan and have sex with dogs, why should it concern you so much that i worship a non existent God?

why did my post concern you so much?

701ecilana:

Dogs are to be kept in chains, especially mad ones. Just saying.

So true, but how's it relevant to this thread? BTW, Analice, don't quote me if you don't want me to reveal your deepest secret.

No contradiction. They are both good news about God, The Holy Spirit and The Son of The Holy Spirit. The difference is in the relative degree of Understanding of their various handlers.

OtemAtum:

So true, but how's it relevant to this thread? BTW, Analice, don't quote me if you don't want me to reveal your deepest secret.

Go ahead and reveal my deepest secrets. Go ahead Chinedu. You think you are invincible? because we all can't be dogs without values doesn't mean we can't do certain things. Go ahead i dare you reveal my deepest secrets. And, make sure you don't lie like you did before.

You said i went to school with you, yet you only knew the school i attended but didn't know my Faculty or department. We were close friends who did everything together, attended the same fellowship, but you couldn't tell the name of the fellowship till today.
You didn't know when i entered or graduated from school.

You didn't know jack beside the School i attended.

When you reveal these secrets i will be here to follow you up.

Chinedu who urinated on his bed till he was 30 years old, go ahead and reveal my deepest secrets.
Am waiting.

hopefulLandlord:


why did my post concern you so much?

because you are so concerned with issues which shouldn't concern you.

Abrahamic religions concerns me because am a Christian. Why does it concern you?

701ecilana:

because you are so concerned with issues which shouldn't concern you.

Abrahamic religions concerns me because am a Christian. Why does it concern you?

same reason doctors are concerned about cancer

701ecilana:

Go ahead and reveal my deepest secrets. Go ahead Chinedu. You think you are invincible? because we all can't be dogs without values doesn't mean we can't do certain things. Go ahead i dare you reveal my deepest secrets. And, make sure you don't lie like you did before.

You said i went to school with you, yet you only knew the school i attended but didn't know my Faculty or department. We were close friends who did everything together, attended the same fellowship, but you couldn't tell the name of the fellowship till today.
You didn't know when i entered or graduated from school.

You didn't know jack beside the School i attended.

When you reveal these secrets i will be here to follow you up.

Chinedu who urinated on his bed till he was 30 years old, go ahead and reveal my deepest secrets.
Am waiting.

Woman, you haven't stopped lying right? And for crying out loud, I was part of those who donated my savings to save your arrse when you were in dire need. Now you are here framing me up and calling me the name my parents didn't give me.

When did I ever say that we attended the same school? When did I tell you that my name is Chinedu? Why do you swim in the pool of lies with your pant of deception? Woman, woman, woman, hmmm

Guys, don't let this thread descend into what the deleted thread descended into

OtemAtum:




Woman, you haven't stopped lying right? And for crying out loud, I was part of those who donated my savings to save your arrse when you were in dire need. Now you are here framing me up and calling me the name my parents didn't give me.

When did I ever say that we attended the same school? When did I tell you that my name is Chinedu? Why do you swim in the pool of lies with your pant of deception? Woman, woman, woman, hmmm

Hahahahahahaha, Otem my eternal enemy donated money to save my ass, is that not something? Do you even believe your self? Attention seeking dog.
Am waiting for you to reveal my deepest secrets. Chinedu piss piss for bed.

Why am i even responding to this animal?

hopefulLandlord:


same reason doctors are concerned about cancer

Why am i not concerned about reincarnation?

hopefulLandlord:
Guys, don't let this thread descend into what the deleted thread descended into

I made the mistake of responding to him. He is not worth my response, so i will stop.
Humans don't talk to dogs.

aminusanti:

Alhamdulillah am good just got fed up of all this recycled arguments .



Those misquoted verses are simply stating that Allah's promises are always fulfilled and no one could change that.

One could easily change and distort texts by picking up a book and a pen, but they could not change the original true texts and revelations which is with Allah
Removing the words from the books here on earth does not mean that God's words have become totally lost but lost here on earth only.

"The Torah & Gospel REMAIN AS ALLAH REVEALED THEM, AND NO LETTER IN THEM WAS REMOVED. However, the people misguide others by addition and false interpretation, relying on books that they wrote themselves

ALLAH is saying in the verse below the Christians and Jews miss-interpret these 2 books, and go on to make books up which they wrote with their own hands! This is exactly what we Muslims believe, we believe in the true Torah, and the true Gospel and we believe that no one can ever corrupt the true originals. However what they can do is misinterpret the true books, and after this they can go on to write fake books and then claim that the fake books they wrote with their hands are from Allah and are the Gospel and Torah.

«Quran 2:79»
"So woe to those who write the "scripture" with their own hands, then say, "This is from Allah ," in order to exchange it for a small price. Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for what they earn."

What we have today is not a Gospel but GospelS, we do not have the Gospel of Jesus, rather we have the Gospel of Mark, Matthew, Luke, and John! Hence the Christians have invented their own books with their hands and claim that these books that were written by men such as Mark and Matthew are from God! Yet we know they are not from God, and we know they are a corrupted distorted version of the true Gospel which was the Gospel of Jesus. The four Gospels we have today were written after Jesus, which were based on many false interpretations and guess-work, which was then written down in ink, and then many claimed that these Gospels were from God.

Wow!

What a brilliant write up.

If the Bible of today is corrupt, then where is the original one to prove the available one is corrupt?

No Al taquiya pls.

701ecilana:

Hahahahahahaha, Otem my eternal enemy donated money to save my ass, is that not something? Do you even believe your self? Attention seeking dog.
Am waiting for you to reveal my deepest secrets. Chinedu piss piss for bed.

Why am i even responding to this animal?

Okay you call for it and I will give you what you want.

OtemAtum:


Okay you call for it and I will give you what you want.

Okay loony one, am waiting. Meanwhile take your Meds.
Why are some doctors negligent of their patients? How can they leave Otem without his medications for this long? See how mad he has become.

Nurseeeeeeeee, One of your inmates is running out naked o.