the holocaust,the inquisition,world war series and even kilings of many early scientists are about some of the reasons religion is enil.Ask Galelio, he must have a story to tell about the church domatism with number 7 and his discovery of new celestial bodies.Terrosim today is motivated by a religion.DAMN.Belief is the death of intelligence.I dont know much but maybe just maybe God is not happy with us that much.

[/quote]Quote from chinedumo
I can say authoritatively that u do not know true Christianity. I am not saying this to mock you. So please don't be offended.If u do u wont be talking like this. U might see yourself as an intellectual person open minded broad minded very analytical knowledgeable exposed not naive . All well and good. but listen i have heard all your argument and u have failed to build a doubt in me about xtianity. Like i said b4 i know there are false prophets false teaching and abuses. but i tell u the genuine is still there unaffected by the rot and rust

[quote author=alariwo link=topic=396715.msg5517641#msg5517641 date=1266247117]
the holocaust,the inquisition,world war series and even kilings of many early scientists are about some of the reasons religion is enil.Ask Galelio, he must have a story to tell about the church domatism with number 7 and his discovery of new celestial bodies.Terrosim today is motivated by a religion.DAMN.Belief is the death of intelligence.I dont know much but maybe just maybe God is not happy with us that much.

This is a clear exaple of abuses and false teaching i am talking about. when i hear these things are am offended cos these people are trying to tarnish true Christianity's image but I am not discouraged cos my faith which I practice does not approve their acts or in other words they are not truly of my faith.  but i believe that shadow cannot cloud or bury substance

Iyineda:

"Logic of contamination" is an expression I came up with just to assert my argument, so I won't blame you for not getting it. Nonetheless, that wasn't the main aspect of the point I was trying to make.

Besides, the counter-example you used in your last sentence is flawed (you're only human, it's ok) because "humans are alive" is a common fact; that logic cannot be applied to shoes because the definition of an object is that it is lifeless. You didn't catch me saying: Humans are alive. Humans created religion. Thus religion is alive.

You could have at least come up with a more decent counter-example.

haha. aight. MAYBE my example was flawed 

But I still don't get what u were trying to say though . . .

Humans are flawed. Humans created religion. Thus religion is flawed.

How are humans flawed? and how does that automatically carry over to religion (assuming u're correct to say that humans created religion)?

I used to have a maths set and the ruler helped me draw the shortest distance between two points pretty much every time I tried. The compass helped me draw perfect circles, I think, etc etc. I have cups in my kitchen that were created to hold beer and they seem to do that just fine. All these were created by humans.

Now, someone that does not know how to use a ruler might mess up and draw a crooked line, or a messed up circle in the case of a compass. Or some goody two shoes might put holy water in my "Gulder" mug. Just like some religionist may use his/her understanding of doctrine to ridicule or even hurt others. But that may just be an issue with the individual, and not the doctrine itself. e.g Some understand jihad as an inner struggle with personal vices, and others as a reason to go blow up a bunch of people.

Quote from: chinedumo on 15-02-2010, 15:03:12
Like i said b4 i know there are false prophets false teaching and abuses. but i tell u the genuine is still there unaffected by the rot and rust

Posted by: Iyineda
Now, here are a few questions for you: How do you pinpoint "false teaching and abuses" in the same religion? What is genuine and what isn't? Why is it that the original source, the Bible, cannot be embraced and accepted homogeneously by all those who claim to be Christians? Why are there so many variants (not exceptions since there are SO MANY)? You tell me.

reply from chinedumo
do you know dat you see things the way you are and not the way they are . The same is applicable to the reading and interpretation of the bible. Jesus once said " what says the scripture, how readest thou" when he was talking about the greatest commandment. Jesus himself dis agreed with the religious interpretations of his time. No scripture is 4 private interpretation it is to be interpreted with the help of the holy ghost. The heart of man is deceitful and desperately wicked who can know it? I want you to experience God personally. my job as an evangelist is to lead you to God point out the way to u and guide u in it if necessary so that u do not deviate. I will tell u more things as we continue,

Krayola:

How are humans flawed? and how does that automatically carry over to religion (assuming u're correct to say that humans created religion)?

I used to have a maths set and the ruler helped me draw the shortest distance between two points pretty much every time I tried. The compass helped me draw perfect circles, I think, etc etc. I have cups in my kitchen that were created to hold beer and they seem to do that just fine. All these were created by humans.

Now, someone that does not know how to use a ruler might mess up and draw a crooked line, or a messed up circle in the case of a compass. Or some goody two shoes might put holy water in my "Gulder" mug. Just like some religionist may use his/her understanding of doctrine to ridicule or even hurt others. But that may just be an issue with the individual, and not the doctrine itself. e.g Some understand jihad as an inner struggle with personal vices, and others as a reason to go blow up a bunch of people.

Okay. To keep it simple, what I meant by "humans are flawed" is that we aren't born perfect. We have flaws that vary depending on society, education, physical abilities, etc. So when I say that religion is the creation of Man (which, I'm sorry, IT IS) thus, it is flawed, I'm trying to say that since religion is handled by imperfect/flawed beings, then it is bound to be a flawed institution.

That is why I named that reasoning "logic of contamination" (pure invention of mine ), because whatever thing/object humans touch, manipulate, create, there's a high possibility that it will also become error-prone/imperfect. Even science that advocates truth and objectivity isn't perfect because those handling the subject aren't perfect themselves.
I hope I cleared that out.

chinedumo:

do you know dat you see things the way you are and not the way they are . The same is applicable to the reading and interpretation of the bible. Jesus once said " what says the scripture, how readest thou" when he was talking about the greatest commandment. Jesus himself dis agreed with the religious interpretations of his time.

Then Jesus/"God" is confused because how does "He" expect us humans to follow his teachings if they are subject to mis-interpretation - since, as you said, "you see things the way you are and not the way they are". How can mankind worship a god homogeneously if the message isn't received the same way for all of us?

chinedumo:

No scripture is 4 private interpretation it is to be interpreted [size=14pt]with the help of the holy ghost[/size].

Oh boy. . . So you expect humanity to do what? Wait for the holy ghost to come down on Earth and teach us how to read a book??

chinedumo:

I want you to experience God personally. my job as an evangelist is to lead you to God point out the way to u and guide u in it if necessary so that u do not deviate. I will tell u more things as we continue,   

Well, good luck with that. 
My mum has been trying to "guide me" for the past 5 years now. Still no sign of improvement I must say.

Peace.

Iyineda:


Okay. To keep it simple, what I meant by "humans are flawed" is that we aren't born perfect. We have flaws that vary depending on society, education, physical abilities, etc. So when I say that religion is the creation of Man (which, I'm sorry, IT IS) thus, it is flawed, I'm trying to say that since religion is handled by imperfect/flawed beings, then it is bound to be a flawed institution.

That is why I named that reasoning "logic of contamination" (pure invention of mine ), because whatever thing/object humans touch, manipulate, create, there's a high possibility that it will also become error-prone/imperfect. Even science that advocates truth and objectivity isn't perfect because those handling the subject aren't perfect themselves.
I hope I cleared that out.


Then Jesus/"God" is confused because how does "He" expect us humans to follow his teachings if they are subject to mis-interpretation - since, as you said, "you see things the way you are and not the way they are". How can mankind worship a god homogeneously if the message isn't received the same way for all of us?


Oh boy. . . So you expect humanity to do what? Wait for the holy ghost to come down on Earth and teach us how to read a book??


Well, good luck with that.
My mum has been trying to "guide me" for the past 5 years now. Still no sign of improvement I must say.

Peace.

I earlier said that u need da Holy Ghost


the holy ghost is not in heaven he is on earth we were not left comfortless or without a helper Where two or three are gathered I am there in there mist. do you believe this



your mun is not da Holy Ghost. she cant give what she does not have

chinedumo:

I earlier said that answered u need da holyghost


the holy ghost is not in heaven he is on earth we were not left comfortless or without a helper Where two or three are gathered I am there in there mist. do you believe this



your mun is not da holy ghost. she cant give what she does not have

i thought he was god?

Kay 17:

i thought he was god?

Pls who are you referring to? Da HOLY GHOST? Of course he is. Did I in any way suggest he isn't? God dwells in heaven and earth. Jesus siad " I wll not leave you comfort less. I will send the comforter the Holy ghost he will abide with you for ever."