jaffi:

Let me ask you if the GOSPEL means GOOD NEWS then what is the GOOD NEWS TO THE POOR=MONEY(WEALTH)

If you continue down this path, there is only one destination for you - HELL. If thats is all you can take out of the gospel.

Honestly, i dont think i want to take you seriously, but there is no harm in a little bit of fun here. I want to ask, are you saying good news is not for the rich or healthy as i dont see them in the list of the beneficiaries of the good news? or when the poor become rich (loaded), then the good news is no longer applicable? (maybe thats why most people only remember God when they are in problem). or are you saying the good news is to eradicate poverty from the economy? How then? I think we are missing something here my friend.

that is not what i am saying.
i just mentioned just a few. The goodnews is salvation and salvation means total prosperity!!!!!!!!!
Health,
Wealth,
and salvation of the soul.
Question:Is God against Money??

@jaffi
Whilst god is not against us having money, the gospel of christ is not about money or worldly material riches. It is the gospel of the Kingdom of God and the route to salvation. Jesus warned us against the love for money cause it leads to coveteousness which is a sin. he further said you cannot serve God and serve mammon[money]

This prosperity gospel virus has spread and taken root deep in the souls of some of the past few posters.

What can one say in addition to all that's already been said in the OP? A word is enough for the wise.

In the end few will heed, and many will not.

mba emeka:

@ aletheia

concerning your earlier post

Let me make an attempt to correct some of the jargons you put up there as truth.

Your problem is indeed a religious one…,

Now this may rattle your theology but you see, we don’t take after the Jesus that lived prior to his death (the accounts where only written to prove he was the messiah) we take after the resurrected Jesus.

Indeed genuine born again Christians take after Jesus but not in the way that you and your ilk teach. Case in point is Stephen, one of the Seven.

Act 7:59-60 And as they were stoning Stephen, he called out, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit." And falling to his knees he cried out with a loud voice, "Lord, do not hold this sin against them." And when he had said this, he fell asleep.

I have heard you prosperity ravening wolves preachers say that Stephen didn't exercise enough authority or faith otherwise he wouldn't have died.
But it is quite clear that Stephen was following the exact example of Jesus!

Luke 23:34 And Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do." And they cast lots to divide his garments.

And Jesus practiced exactly what He taught.

Mat 5:39 But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.

Mat 5:44-45 But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.

Question for you: Was it after his death that Jesus prayed that the Heavenly Father should forgive those crucifying him?

Another example is Peter and John. They had no money! (I know its absolutely shocking to you! They didn't have enough faith!).

Act 3:6 But Peter said, "I have no silver and gold, but what I do have I give to you. In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, rise up and walk!"

.
But what distinguished these men? Read the testimony of their own enemies.

Act 4:13 Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were uneducated, common men, they were astonished. And they recognized that they had been with Jesus.

By the way when you read the account in Acts 3, you will see that they did not ask the man to "sow a seed" before receiving the healing.

Third example? Read Paul

Php 3:9-10 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;

I could go on. . .but let's move on

For a season Jesus chose to lay aside the glory He had from before the foundation of the world to accomplish a specific purpose. To save us from our sins.

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Jesus' life is an example for us to follow.

John 13:15 For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you.

mba emeka:


In his own words he said…”I’m come that they might have Zoë .dying on the cross was only a means to this end.

You should on your own carry out a study on Zoë then you’d understand what the real gospel of Jesus Christ is about.

I earlier told you to stop trying to bamboozle us with Greek. I am not one of your gullible church members who you try to deceive every Sunday with your pseudo-scholarship. Are you confused about the language you ought to speak? Why render the word life as zōē as if it means any thing other than what it is translated in our bibles?

Strong's :
ζωή
zōē
dzo-ay'
From G2198; life (literally or figuratively): - life (-time).

John 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

Scripture must always interpret scripture not your personal materialistic conjecture. What life is Jesus talking about?
Is it having a bigger house or fatter bank balance? No. It is written:

Luke 12:15 And he said unto them, Take heed, and beware of covetousness: for a man's life consisteth not in the abundance of the things which he possesseth.

But rather the life that Jesus is talking about is this:

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life:

John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

John 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

mba emeka:

Lets isolate a case- Jesus at a point said we were to love our neighbors as we love ourselves….much later while talking to his disciples he said they were to love as he(Christ) had loved them John 15:12. Or

He also said at one point- forgive so that your heavenly father will forgive you (this was according to the Law of Moses; ‘eye for an eye…)

Later on scripture says we should forgive as God for Christ’s sake has forgiven us Eph 4:32…do you see the contrast? The law before was a compulsory love the lord your God, with all your body, soul, mind, But now we can love him (God) easily because he loved us first and love is our new nature.

Above is disjointed rubbish. Forgive so that your Heavenly Father will forgive you equates to an eye for an eye as enunciated by Moses? Let's consider the actual scriptures.

Mat 5:43-44 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

Mat 5:38-39 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

Do you see the conjunction "but" in the verses above. And. . .

Mat 6:14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

mba emeka:

Jesus had a home. He lived in Capernaum. The bible says in john 1:38-39 the first two disciples – Andrew and john followed him there. They stayed there till late in the night because they heard him speak gracious words: words that edified the listeners. I know you may want to argue- so you can read it for yourself. After he was chased out of Nazareth for healing on the Sabbath he relocated to Capernaum, Luke 4:31 this was before he went to the house of Simon peter in vs. 38.

When he said “foxes have holes…but the son of man has nowhere to lay his head” you also have to realize that he had just entered Samaria for a crusade but the Samaritans did not prepare for him- they did not reserve a place for him to stay. Didn’t you notice his disciples where angry they said “let us command fire on them like Elijah did”…. Jesus rebuked them and told them “ye know not what manner of spirit ye have” implying that they didn’t understand the gospel if they thought it was about rebuke.

Don't you people fear God? Just like your brother Joagbaje you are now implying that Jesus is a liar! You are not even afraid to try and twist the actual words of Jesus!
You juxtapose two different incidents in order to justify your heresy?

Luk 9:57-58 And it came to pass, that, as they went in the way, a certain man said unto him, Lord, I will follow thee whithersoever thou goest. And Jesus said unto him, Foxes have holes, and birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head.

Mat 8:19 And a certain scribe came, and said unto him, Master, I will follow thee whithersoever thou goest.
Mat 8:20 And Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head.

Read it in both Matthew and Luke and tell me where it says he said this because the Samaritans did not prepare for him. Indeed Matthew makes clear that he said this after a "successful crusade" (to use your words).

Mat 8:16-17 When the even was come, they brought unto him many that were possessed with devils: and he cast out the spirits with his word, and healed all that were sick: That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses.

Moreover in Luke, the expression "And it came to pass" denotes that some time had passed since the Samaria incident. Note also that in verse 51 the same expression introduces the section of the narrative describing the Samaritans rejection of Jesus.

What bible are you using? O I know. You use this one.

It's amazing what am seeing here!
Different ideaology but the same, ?spirit??
So waht did Jesus come to do??
why did he died
why was he buried?
why did he resurrect
what is he relevant in the age and time we are living in?
Has he made me a victim or a victor?
why difference does it's make with Jesus in my life

How do i meet my needs(Health,financial,material etc) that is beyond human help?
How?kunleosho!
How??NL
How??EVERYONE IN THE HOUSE

The money tends to lead us away from our service to the Lord. Jesus gave us this parable in Matthew 13:22, "He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful." My problem is with preachers using the prosperity message to con people into giving all their money to them so they can live in a lap of luxury (not working), while their members starve and go homeless because they gave all their money to the pastor in hope of a breakthrough. So I wrote a book that helps to determine which type of pastor is preaching from the pulpit. It is called, A Shepherd's Trial: Feeding or Fleecing the Flock of God? Please follow the link to check it out: http://www.strategicpublishinggroup.com/title/AShepherdsTrial-FeedingOfFleecingTheFlockOfGod.html Hearing the wrong message will not produce the fruit that God is looking for. Jesus said in Matthew 7:17-20 "Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them."

Zikkyy:

@mba emeka, I don’t know what the argument between you and aletheia is all about, but I do find some interesting comments in your post I like you to clarify. I think its good for third parties like us reading your post. If we can find the necessary clarification in your previous posts, it would be nice if you guide me

I would appreciate if you can explain this further especially the “poor now know they are rich” part. Thanks

I don’t think its right for you to make such assumption. You don’t know really.

I need so clarifications here as well. I need to understand how the gospel makes the poor rich. Thanks

I find it difficult to reconcile the posts above. My understanding of your interpretation here is that if we ask in faith we receive. But my question is, how does my faith or belief that i will receive whatever I desire equates to God’s will for me? Thanks.

I have another problem here. I a bit confused by this. Looking at the first post, my thoughts would be if I dial a wrong number in faith, my friend will hear me. Some clarifications again please. Thanks

The gospel is not about making a Christian rich. I am happy you bring this up. I especially like the part highlighted above. Its says a lot about the way we see the prosperity. 

Out of the need to learn here, i would also like to ask, who is the saved rich man? Is it the rich man that gives away his property to stay rich (based on the concept of give and receive more)? Is it the man that gives away his property out of love to meet the need of brother or sister (and probably end up poor in the process)? Some education here will be appreciated. Thanks.

Thank you both- jaffi and zikky

Thank you (zikky) particularly for a sincere interest to understand my points. I hope this attempt I’d make will be able to clarify some of the issues you raised.

2cor 8:9 the bible says for we know the grace of our lord Jesus Christ that though he was rich yet for your sakes he became poor so that you through his poverty might be made rich.

Think of it, Jesus: the man of Galilee; the miracle worker; God in the flesh, died.
Now contrary to what many feel he wasn’t a martyr. I know some people even say he was the greatest martyr, but he wasn’t.

In John 18:35-42 the bible says Pilate while interrogating Jesus asked him  , ”Art thou the king of the Jews?”, Jesus answered him saying “, My kingdom is not of this world” in other words he said  , ”I’m a king but not a king in this world”. Pilate then asked him some other questions which he (Jesus) answered perfectly. You must have observed that Pilate said “…I find in him no fault at all”, and he (Pilate) started scheming to get Jesus saved.
If you also observe with close scrutiny, when Jesus perceived that Pilate wanted to save him, he(Jesus) stopped talking; he stopped responding well to the questions because he wanted to die. He had said it before- he said “my father has given me life and the power to lay it down if I choose”

The man wasn’t killed; per say for it would be an insult to say he died a martyr. He wasn’t a martyr, he was a SACRIFICE.

A martyr dies for himself, but a sacrifice dies for others!

I don’t mean to drift; I’m trying to amount to my earlier point: that he (Jesus) died for something and for people. He died that we might live and he resurrected to see that we got what he died for. The gospel is predicated on the resurrection and its (the resurrection’s) power to us wards who believe. This was Paul’s message-he sort to know Christ and the power of his resurrection. Philp 3:10
It’s like saying what did his resurrection do for us?
1peter 1:10-11 says there was a suffering of Christ and a glory that should follow. This is because God always brings us out of somewhere to take us into another place.

He always brings us “out” to take us “in”. He brought Israel out of Egypt to take them into the Promised Land.

Now the glory that followed was our salvation. Rom 10:9 says… if we believe he was raised from the dead we shall be saved…
Salvation doesn’t just mean to save, the word is all encompassing. It’s a state of completeness- health, joy, peace, righteousness, wealth (prosperity), liberty, life etc.

Visualize salvation like a house that God purchased and gave to us with some keys, say nine. Many have received the keys, some have entered into the living room of their salvation but that is where they stop. Brother! Sister! There are eight other keys, what are they for?
When I used one key to open a door in the house i saw divine health in the room and then I knew I’d never be sick in my life! I took another key and opened another door, there I saw riches. I jumped for joy because I knew I’d never be broke in my life!
Are you getting the picture?
God has brought us out of sin to take us into righteousness.
He has brought us out of poverty to take us into wealth.
He has brought us out of stagnation to take us into prosperity.

Please read Acts 26:16-18 and Eph 3:8. It’s really clear!
In a nutshell the message is this- the Christian is not the poor trying to get rich. The Christian is the rich discovering his/her inheritance!   Wealth is part of our inheritance!
Salvation is not only to save us from hell it was to bring us from the path of hell to the path of heaven, This is the true gospel!

Did you ever read about Isaac? The bible says he prospered because of his father- Abraham, Period. It had nothing to do with who he was, absolutely nothing! Just because he was a seed of Abraham!
Did you read about the woman who had been bent double for eighteen long years? Jesus said she deserved to be made whole (even on a Sabbath) because she too was a seed of Abraham.

Do you know the Christian is a seed of Abraham? Read the book of Gal 3. You may read the whole chapter; you’d like it.


Gods will is that we ask in faith and in the name of Jesus. He never told us to ask for what he willed for us (if he willed it to us then it’s already ours we just have to receive it) he always said “, WHATSOEVER “ye” desire”…

He gave us a blank cheque! He is God! Nothing can be too hard for him. Don’t let anyone cheat you of your salvation. He answers yes to whatsoever we want; its part of our inheritance-it’s our right in Christ.

Did you ever read of King Hezekiah? The bible says God sent the prophet Isaiah to tell him to prepare to die. Now you see, it was Gods will for him to die, but the bible says Hezekiah backed the world and turned his face to the wall and sort God. He reasoned with him. He said things like, ”the dead cannot praise you”…you know, things like that. Before long God sent the prophet back to tell him he had added fifteen years to his life. Can you see, he (Hezekiah) asked for what he wanted which was not in line with Gods will but he got it. He got it all the same! Remember this was in the old testament- the bible says for us in the new one we have a better covenant established on better promises. Boy! We can get anything we desire.

Now I know some people will say…”then ask God to kill bro so and so”…well, Jesus said “if ye abide in me and my words abide in you ye shall ask what ye will and it will be given you.
If Christ’s words abide in you and you abide in him you will not ask for bro so and so to die…that’s the truth!


The analogy only meant that if you dialed the wrong number your friend’s phone will not ring. You’d need to dial the right number then it will ring and your friend will hear you.
A lot of people think God will not do something if it’s not his will. Well, the issue is not the “his will” part but the part of if he even heard it. Dialing the right number to God is using faith and the name of Jesus.

When we ask in faith and in the name of Jesus we get Gods full attention and his willingness to perform what we have asked for that means he would hear us.

 

The rich saved folks to God are men who are born again and who give richly to the things of God in love. It’s not possible for such a person to get poor…God loves a cheerful, prompt to do it giver whose heart is in his giving… he always makes grace abound to them…2cor 9:8.

They are the folks Jesus described as poor in spirit. Mark the word in spirit. Scripture says blessed are the poor in spirit not blessed are the poor in physical. Being poor is a curse and Jesus took it away. He said the kingdom of heaven belongs to them. Why? Well, it’s because the kingdom expands through them. They are the people who, though they might possess so much wealth in the physical, in their spirit they’re really poor. I.e. none of their possessions own them. If a cause arises say (Haiti) for example and some money is needed such a person would willingly sacrifice what he has for the cause. He won’t even negotiate it. Listen it’s not the amount, it’s the willingness. Another example could be in a church say a need of fifty thousand naira arises and God says to him/her “drop your expensive wrist watch it’s the amount they need” he/she wouldn’t say” if I drop an amount and brother so and so drops an amount we would meet the need now”, no. he/she would just say okay sir! And drop it, no arguments. He/she is a saved rich folk and such a person is laying up treasures in heaven.

You cannot love God and not give towards his cause; you can’t love God and eat your seed, then go about telling people it’s demonic to give. That’s why Jesus said where your treasure is that is where your heart is.

Lastly, for such people( such as my humble self ) death is usually far from their dwelling because many lives depend on them. Such folks cannot lack anything because God will always supply their needs according to his riches and anywhere their name is mentioned God himself answers because when we make sure Gods kingdom expands ( by saving the lost and telling them about hteir inheritance) he makes sure ours does too.

I hope I have been able to answer your questions.

Absolute Revelation Emeka!
when you read your Bible you have to identify who the Bible is talking to.
In the bible,we have God's word ,Man's words ,and the devil's words.
we should be able thru revelation knowledge perceive who is talking and to whom is directed to!
Being rich as to sinners( non Christians) and being rich as to saints of God.
so, we won't miss up everything and get confused.

question:if we agree that we are the children of God and God owns the whole world then as children of the father of the whole world am i not suppose to be rich/enjoy life as my Daddy?He gave us all things richly to enjoy.

if we saw Bill gate's daughter suffering we would be our reaction?
if prince Charles enjoys all the luxury in the palace then what should become a child of God.

The good management of the wealth is what God is after.
read Galatians 4:1-2
God delivers to you His wealth according to what you can handle unlike the devil he gives gun to a baby!

i hope all you questions has been answered by Mba Emeka?
remove sentiment and be neutral then check up all the scriptures quoted for yourself.
ask the holy spirit to guide you into all truth.i suggest you do this this weekend.
you will be glad you did.
Have a wonderful weekend.

Hi Emeka, thanks for your response.

mba emeka:

I hope I have been able to answer your questions.

I think you said a lot of things I don’t really need, now I really have to work hard filtering the post to extract answers to my concerns. I would have preferred something more concise. I believe my concern was for you to help me understand how the gospel makes the poor rich. I remember asking for a definition of the saved rich man.

mba emeka:

Salvation doesn’t just mean to save, the word is all encompassing. It’s a state of completeness- health, joy, peace, righteousness, wealth (prosperity), liberty, life etc.

Visualize salvation like a house that God purchased and gave to us with some keys, say nine. Many have received the keys, some have entered into the living room of their salvation but that is where they stop. Brother! Sister! There are eight other keys, what are they for?
When I used one key to open a door in the house i saw divine health in the room and then I knew I’d never be sick in my life! I took another key and opened another door, there I saw riches. I jumped for joy because I knew I’d never be broke in my life!
Are you getting the picture?
God has brought us out of sin to take us into righteousness.
He has brought us out of poverty to take us into wealth.
He has brought us out of stagnation to take us into prosperity.

Please read Acts 26:16-18 and Eph 3:8. It’s really clear!
In a nutshell the message is this- the Christian is not the poor trying to get rich. The Christian is the rich discovering his/her inheritance! Wealth is part of our inheritance!
Salvation is not only to save us from hell it was to bring us from the path of hell to the path of heaven, This is the true gospel!

mba emeka:

Gods will is that we ask in faith and in the name of Jesus. He never told us to ask for what he willed for us (if he willed it to us then it’s already ours we just have to receive it) he always said “, WHATSOEVER “ye” desire”…

He gave us a blank cheque! He is God! Nothing can be too hard for him. Don’t let anyone cheat you of your salvation. He answers yes to whatsoever we want; its part of our inheritance-it’s our right in Christ.

Oh well, what can I say here? I have to say I like the positive feeling you are expressing here. There is nothing wrong in believing we can overcome all disadvantages that will hinder us from achieving prosperity and a sickness free life. With God all things are possible (abi?). The part I don’t understand is to say as Christians we are already rich, and what is left is for us to claim it. Are you saying that all Christians can possess material wealth? How come a larger proportion of Christians are poor today? What will it take for all member of the body of Christ to achieve that level where we can say we have been able to claim the prosperity or wealth due to use? And BTW what is the standard of measurement, so I know I can say I am now prosperous i.e. I have claimed my inheritance.

You see, I still find it difficult to believe that part of the reason the Son of God has to sacrifice himself was for us to be free from the bondage of poverty. Like you said Abraham was blessed, so was Isaac as well as descendants of Isaac. If blessings can be received at the time, then why the need for such sacrifice?

If as Christians we should consider ourselves as already rich (I really do like this feeling), I believe no body dead or alive would know this better than the apostles. They did not preach this, instead they encouraged the selling of properties by the wealthier members for distribution among themselves so needs of the less privileged members of the community can also be satisfied (if this is an approach for the poor to claim their inheritance, I still like it). Christ said we’ll always have the poor with us, what exactly was he saying here? The apostles preached giving to the poor. What about the talk of those preaching the gospel to also live by the gospel? Is that a means of realizing the wealth already conferred?

I hope you don’t mind my asking more questions here, it just to help me have a better understanding of the message you are passing across. Hope to get a response from you. Thanks for your understanding.

If you say the rich saved folks are the men that give cheerfully out of love for God and by extension, love for their neighbor and not because they see giving as an avenue to make more money, I will buy that.

jaffi:

The good management of the wealth is what God is after.

jaffi:

God delivers to you His wealth according to what you can handle unlike the devil he gives gun to a baby!

I think you make some sense here. It might help provide answers to some of my questions. But we talk about this later. Just to put you on alert

@ alatheia

I really wanted to isolate each of your points and show you from scripture were you err but I will be giving you meat; meat too tough for your feeble teeth . You are indeed a nepios and your mind is sure made up concerning the parochial direction you’ve embarked on finding truth. May the good lord open the eyes of your understanding because its apparent your physical eyes are open but your spiritual eyes are shut.

Who has bewitched you? Who has brought you another Gospel that in actual fact is really no gospel at all? Who is peddling to you bondage in the name of gospel? Who has travelled a mile to get you only to enslave you again? Who has?

Psuche refers to biological life. The kind of life you find in ordinary humans, in plants, in insects, in living souls.
Zoe is a higher life: Its eternal life; it’s the life of God- his very essence. It’s a life that gives life to other beings.

When scripture says Adam (the first one) was a living soul. It was referring to psuche. When it said the second and last Adam, which is Jesus Christ was a life giving spirit it was referring to Zoë.

Your medical practice is making you intellectualize truth. Brother, come down from your high horse. I beseech you!

Jesus said “I am the way, the truth, and the Zoë.
“As the father hath Zoë in himself so also has he given the son Zoë”…
…“I am come that they might have Zoë”…
He came to let us get Zoë and indeed we have it now! 1john 5:11-13

MATTEWS ACCOUNT
Mt 8:18-20
18, now when Jesus saw great multitudes about him, he gave commandment to depart unto the other side.
19, and a certain scribe came, and said unto him, “master I will follow thee withersoever thou goest.”
20, and Jesus said unto him, the foxes have holes, birds have nests and the son of man has nowhere to lay his head.

LUKES ACCOUNT
Lk 9:52-58

52, and sent his disciples before his face; and they went and entered into a village of the Samaritans to make ready for him.
53, and they did not receive him because his face was though he would go to Jerusalem
54, and when his disciples saw this James and john they said” lord wilt thou that we command fire to come from heaven and consume them even as Elijah did?
56, for the son of man is not come to destroy men’s lives, but to save them. And they went to another village
57, and it came to pass that as they went in the way, a certain man said unto him,” lord, I will follow thee withersoever thou goest
58, and Jesus said unto him, “foxes have holes….but the son of man has nowhere to lay his head.”Do you see how the accounts differ?

Lukes account was more detailed and i dear say more accurate-he told us why they went there in the first place, why he(Christ) was resisted(because he was a Jew), how he decided to go to another village close by, and how a scribe opted to follow him while he was on the way- on the way to the other village

That other village wasn’t Capernaum. Now to address the “as it came to pass” (as they went to another village) didn’t you see it? After they were turned back they digressed to another village, on the way there they met the scribe. That was the “as it came to pass” time….(sighs). It doesn’t mean a millennia occurred. That was why Jesus said he didn’t have where to lay his head…he didn’t live in that village.

I’m not insinuating that he lived in a mansion; all I’m trying to prove is that he was not the bum many try to polish him as.

JOHN’S ACCOUNT
John 1:37-39

37, and the two disciples heard him speak, and they followed Jesus.
38, then Jesus turned, and saw them following and saith unto them “ what seek ye?” they said unto him, rabbi “where dwellest thou?” (translated where do you live?
39, he saith unto them “foxes have holes…, ” abi? No! No! He didn’t.
He saith unto them- “COME AND SEE” they came and saw where he dwelt, and abode with him that day: for it was about the tenth hour.

You need to take off the spiritual blinders! It’s easy to study the scriptures.

I don’t know why you’re trying to put your hook and bait in my mouth to force words out of it. I didn’t tell you anything about Stephen. If you want to know my views on the matter you could kindly ask and I’d tell you. I never said he didn’t have faith. I’m not in any WOF movement you lot keep driving at. Am not against it but I’m not for it either.

I didn’t also talk about the apostles. They were going into the synagogue without silver and gold, which means they had no offering to give. So are you going to tell me it’s also wrong to give an offering?

Talk about bamboozle! Most of them had an occupation- peter was a big time fisherman, Matthew was a tax collector (a rich one), Luke was a physician the list is endless. So why didn’t they have anything to give the man? Well, prior to this point Jesus told them not to take anything with them: no purse, no extra sandals, he also said don’t greet anybody on the way! Good, so we’re not to greet anybody on the way …, right? Luke 10:4…don’t confuse yourself. He told them not take those things with them so they wouldn’t get distracted. That was the point-distraction.

Things have changed now bro, principles remain the same but the methods have changed: they have evolved. Now we don’t need to walk long distances to reach the unsaved, we can use cars, planes, and the internet; Just about any positive thing.

You are also aware that they (the apostles) took offerings for the “poor”. Why didn’t they tell them to remain that way?

I apologize duly if I have been unable to offend you. I could try but it’s going to be futile, it’s not in my nature. So, with the joy of a weekend I say to you one love!

the truth of the matter is God owns the world and we(christians) are his kids so we are suppose to enjoy everything but it take absolute trust and fath to access things great inheritance.
HALLELUYAH.
PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

jaffi:

the truth of the matter is God owns the world and we(christians) are his kids so we are suppose to enjoy everything but it take absolute trust and fath to access things great inheritance.
HALLELUYAH.
PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The question for me is not whether or not God owns the world and whether we therefore have a right to everything in it. This whole business is so messy, convoluted, and distorted. And this is all because of one thing.

We are not considering that we each have an allotment in life. A portion. An appropriation. An inheritance. So therefore prosperity is not just having a lot of what the world has got to offer, but rather to have that which has been reserved for us to have.
Any preacher that says, 'look at me and how God has blessed me, if you pay your tithes then you will be similarly blessed', such a preacher is a liar. If indeed the preacher is enjoying wealth that has been appropriated for him by God then he should encourage his congregation to seek their own portion that is theirs, rather than seek something like his.
Yoruba says, A a ki fi Ori we Ori. We don't evaluate one Head (ori) by the measure of another head. Each one has got his own and should seek to come into his own. To seek for any other prosperity in this world than to prosper in the role that has been carved out for one by one's creator is at the heart of all error in the whole wide world.
Money is poisonous because it facilitates this error. I might explain why in a later post, or another thread.

Pastor AIO:

The question for me is not whether or not God owns the world and whether we therefore have a right to everything in it. This whole business is so messy, convoluted, and distorted. And this is all because of one thing.

We are not considering that we each have an allotment in life. A portion. An appropriation. An inheritance. So therefore prosperity is not just having a lot of what the world has got to offer, but rather to have that which has been reserved for us to have.
Any preacher that says, 'look at me and how God has blessed me, if you pay your tithes then you will be similarly blessed', such a preacher is a liar. If indeed the preacher is enjoying wealth that has been appropriated for him by God then he should encourage his congregation to seek their own portion that is theirs, rather than seek something like his.
Yoruba says, A a ki fi Ori we Ori. We don't evaluate one Head (ori) by the measure of another head. Each one has got his own and should seek to come into his own. To seek for any other prosperity in this world than to prosper in the role that has been carved out for one by one's creator is at the heart of all error in the whole wide world.
Money is poisonous because it facilitates this error. I might explain why in a later post, or another thread.

Pastor AIO,

Can you please quote some scriptures to back up your claims that the children of God have different '''portions'' reserved for them, in terms of wealth?

@
it's available but for the fact that it's available does not mean that everyone is going to get it.
just like salvation,it's available to all but we all know that not all will accept this precious salvation.
the same goes for the inheritance.
wealth ,riches ,health etc.
as far as your eyes-spiritual eyes thru the word of god- can see you can have but it's left to you.
as for me i have taken and till taking.
fulfilling God's purpose in my life.

The purpose of the teaching on prosperity is not to make people pursue after vanities of life but to let people know what is their's in God and that there is no longer a limitation to Their God given blessings. They still have their descisions to make. Just like some will marry some will not marry by choice to the glory of God. But those who want to Marry should know they have right to marry. Thesame thing with prosperity.

Pastor AIO:

The question for me is not whether or not God owns the world and whether we therefore have a right to everything in it. This whole business is so messy, convoluted, and distorted. And this is all because of one thing.

We are not considering that we each have an allotment in life. A portion. An appropriation. An inheritance. So therefore prosperity is not just having a lot of what the world has got to offer, but rather to have that which has been reserved for us to have.
Any preacher that says, 'look at me and how God has blessed me, if you pay your tithes then you will be similarly blessed', such a preacher is a liar. If indeed the preacher is enjoying wealth that has been appropriated for him by God then he should encourage his congregation to seek their own portion that is theirs, rather than seek something like his.
Yoruba says, A a ki fi Ori we Ori. We don't evaluate one Head (ori) by the measure of another head. Each one has got his own and should seek to come into his own. To seek for any other prosperity in this world than to prosper in the role that has been carved out for one by one's creator is at the heart of all error in the whole wide world.
Money is poisonous because it facilitates this error. I might explain why in a later post, or another thread.

Thank you.

Pastor AIO:

The question for me is not whether or not God owns the world and whether we therefore have a right to everything in it. This whole business is so messy, convoluted, and distorted. And this is all because of one thing.

We are not considering that we each have an allotment in life. A portion. An appropriation. An inheritance. So therefore prosperity is not just having a lot of what the world has got to offer, but rather to have that which has been reserved for us to have.
Any preacher that says, 'look at me and how God has blessed me, if you pay your tithes then you will be similarly blessed', such a preacher is a liar. If indeed the preacher is enjoying wealth that has been appropriated for him by God then he should encourage his congregation to seek their own portion that is theirs, rather than seek something like his.
Yoruba says, A a ki fi Ori we Ori. We don't evaluate one Head (ori) by the measure of another head. Each one has got his own and should seek to come into his own. To seek for any other prosperity in this world than to prosper in the role that has been carved out for one by one's creator is at the heart of all error in the whole wide world.
Money is poisonous because it facilitates this error. I might explain why in a later post, or another thread.

True.

jaffi:

@
it's available but for the fact that it's available does not mean that everyone is going to get it.
just like salvation,it's available to all but we all know that not all will accept this precious salvation.
the same goes for the inheritance.
wealth ,riches ,health etc.

I believe you post just to support and make ur oga happy. Are you saying the poor in your church deliberately refused to claim their wealth? or they are yet to accept salvation? Maybe your pastor is not doing his job then. He should be addressing the matter of saving souls instead of condemning them to hell.

@zikkyy
No bi so!if they came in poor and they listen well and apply God's principles accordingly in faith and good conscience
then their prosperity is inevitable.
They can't remain poor for too long.
Na so my cause be too.
i got born again in my old church(parent church) where they don't teach faith.They told me i don't have a say whatever will be will be.That anything that happens to you in life is GOD'S WILL-LACK,SICKNESS,FAILURE,DISAPPOINTMENTS ETC.
I stood with that for a long time and nothing was changing until i got in contact with WOF.
UNTIL I SAW IN MY BIBLE THAT ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE TO HIM THAT BELIEVE.
Until i saw in the scriptures that, without faith it's impossible to please God.
until it was revealed that FAITH IS NOT FAITHFULNESS,THOUGH BOTH IS NEEDED FOR TRIUMPHANT LIVING.
OMO, I SUFFER !!!!!!!!!!
How did things being to change
i will tell you in my next post.
Glory to god the word works!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

God has made provision for us to prosper in Christ Jesus. He also made provision for us to be in health, joy, peace, righteousness, holiness, wisdom and so on. They were accredited to us by virtue of being in Christ Jesus. We can either receive it and walk in it or reject it.

How do we receive it and walk in it you may want to ask? It’s the same way you received your salvation- you believed Jesus died for you and was raised for you, then you confessed his lordship over you.
When you did that (if you have done it?) what happened to you? Did you “feel” born again? Did you see any light from heaven? Did you hear any voice talk to you from above saying “thou art now saved”? Chances are that you didn’t. So how do you know you’re born again? You knew by “faith”.

The bible says:

Ro:10:9: That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Ro:10:10: For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

You see, when you believed you were saved you were right, but you weren’t saved. You only got saved when you confessed with your mouth” I’m saved”. Then you started living with the consciousness of your being a “new man” in Christ. You didn’t always get it right, but the more you studied the word the more you saw yourself metamorphose into that “new man”. It doesn’t mean you weren’t born again at the start, just that you weren’t as conscious of it now as you are- after studying the word.

It’s the same thing with the prosperity aspect- you can either accept it or reject it. If you accept it then you begin to live in the consciousness of it. It’s already yours so you don’t beg God to give it to you-you say “it’s mine” and then you walk in the consciousness of it. A prosperous man knows no lack so you don’t identify with lack, even if you do not have cash in your pocket you don’t say “I’m broke” because you’re not-remember you’re rich in Christ Jesus . You say father I thank you I’ve got all I need. You see that’s your new consciousness (eido)/mentality.

Did you ever read about Isaac, the bible says he waxed great, he moved forward and he became very great- in the midst of farming! Why? Because he had this mentality: He didn’t need to thrive in a prosperous nation, he stayed exactly where the farming was yet he prospered till the philistines envied him. He didn’t need to have a lot of seed for all he had was all he needed. That’s a prosperous man.

Look at it also in this light- since you gave your heart to Christ (if you have) you must have missed it one way or the other…right? So the day you messed up did you become a sinner that day? It’s the same thing in this instance.

We don’t tell people to chase after money (wealth) we tell them that God has made provision for them to prosper in anything they do since they’re in Christ. Thus we say if you’re a doctor be a doctor with a difference! If you’re a trader-be a trader with a difference! If you’re a bus conductor- then be one with a difference! God has made provision for you to make it wherever you find yourself because you’re in Christ Jesus! If this isn’t good news I wonder what is.

I see CEC plc as delegated a good number of it's charlatans to nairaland with the sole purpose of defending and promoting their doctrines from the darkest pits of hell which they are using to draw people away from christ's saving grace whilst reaping off their congragationcustomers in the process.

mba emeka:

remember you’re rich in Christ Jesus . You say father I thank you I’ve got all I need.

I don’t understand you. This appears to be an expression of satisfaction and contentment with present status.

mba emeka:

We don’t tell people to chase after money (wealth) we tell them that God has made provision for them to prosper in anything they do since they’re in Christ. Thus we say if you’re a doctor be a doctor with a difference! If you’re a trader-be a trader with a difference! If you’re a bus conductor- then be one with a difference! God has made provision for you to make it wherever you find yourself because you’re in Christ Jesus! If this isn’t good news I wonder what is.

This is motivational talk. I asked a simple question, why is the poor in your church not benefiting from this prosperity gospel you are preaching? Are you saying they refused to accept it? Maybe there is more to this prosperity thing than you are preaching. I believe you are not providing full disclosure here.

@zikkyy


No bi so!if they came in poor and they listen well and apply God's principles accordingly in faith and good conscience
then their prosperity is inevitable.
They can't remain poor for too long.
Na so my cause be too.
i got born again in my old church(parent church) where they don't teach faith.They told me i don't have a say whatever will be will be.That anything that happens to you in life is GOD'S WILL-LACK,SICKNESS,FAILURE,DISAPPOINTMENTS ETC.
I stood with that for a long time and nothing was changing until i got in contact with WOF.
UNTIL I SAW IN MY BIBLE THAT ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE TO HIM THAT BELIEVE.
Until i saw in the scriptures that, without faith it's impossible to please God.
until it was revealed that FAITH IS NOT FAITHFULNESS,THOUGH BOTH IS NEEDED FOR TRIUMPHANT LIVING.
OMO, I SUFFER !!!!!!!!!!
How did things being to change
i will tell you in my next post.
Glory to god the word works!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Zikkyy:

This is motivational talk. I asked a simple question, why is the poor in your church not benefiting from this prosperity gospel you are preaching? Are you saying they refused to accept it? Maybe there is more to this prosperity thing than you are preaching. I believe you are not providing full disclosure here.

Many years ago before the full onset of WoF/prosperity "gospel", the late Dr David Martin Lloyd-Jones posed this question similarly, albeit in different words, when addressing people who were even regarded as generally orthodox --- save for erroneous misguidedness on the issue of "guaranteed" healing. He said if you insist that healing is guaranteed  for a Christian

Why doesn't it always work? That is your problem!

Incidentally, another respected preacher (a South African whose name eludes me now), who had once subscribed to the guaranteed healing error repented and turned from it after proper biblical exposition became available to him.

jaffi:

No bi so!if they came in poor and they listen well and apply God's principles accordingly in faith and good conscience
then their prosperity is inevitable.
They can't remain poor for too long.

I dont know why guys avoid my questions. Is it because there is no answer? I dont think it should be that difficult to defend Are you saying people are poor in your church because they dont listen well to the pastor? what are these principles? I dont think you will be successful at wining souls if you cant defend what you preach.

jaffi:

How did things being to change
i will tell you in my next post.

I am still waiting.

Zikkyy:

I don’t understand you. This appears to be an expression of satisfaction and contentment with present status.

This is motivational talk. I asked a simple question, why is the poor in your church not benefiting from this prosperity gospel you are preaching? Are you saying they refused to accept it? Maybe there is more to this prosperity thing than you are preaching. I believe you are not providing full disclosure here.

i typed the testimony of a dear brother among many others i have heard and witnessed. i lost it one way or the other and i dont have the time to type it now. maybe some other time.
you seem to be a nepios in the teachings of faith and i'm not going to be the one to help you out now. "expression of satisfaction"

if i gave you the testimonies you'd probably not believe it so whats the fuss. the fact of the matter is that testimonies always abound to that effect because its the word of God. keep your fingers crossed none the less i may still post the testimony.