Now back to more mature issues  (its long. ,   .take your time )

davidylan:

lol what "christian love" have you or anyone shown the jews? You people live in an world of pure fantasy (or illusion if you like). Do you know that the anti-semitic and false "protocols of the elders of Zion" came from Russia (a nation with christian roots)? Do you know that while Germany was gassing the jews the rest of the so-called christian world INCLUDING THE CATHOLIC CHURCH sat by and watched?

My point on the hatred of Jews by  European ‘Christians’ has been clearly stated in my prev post.  No need to dwell on that. I was speaking for myself.

One thing I have noticed about you David, is you expend so much energy on revisionist HISTORY. While the historical antecedents of any situation are important, they aren’t the only factor to be considered.

Most of what you are stating has no bearing on the current situation of things in the ME.

I like using the current state of affairs in Nigeria for example, we have serious issues with the way we are structured, will bringing up  the Jihad of Usman Dan Fodio have any bearing on the current political discourse ?

Yes , the PLO has antecedents, but Yasser Arafat’s legacy is as relevant to the current Israeli-Palestinian situation as  Nairaland is (not very relevant). The PLO has moved on, the world’s view has moved on, the overwhelming Arab view has equally moved on.
So let’s stay CURRENT & not continue to quote irrelevant historical accidents.

davidylan:

Do you know EVEN THE US was nowhere to be found when Israel declared itself a state in 1948 and had to fight off 6 Arab nations (aided only by the secular France)?

Going back memory lane however, I am shocked to read this statement. US president Harry Truman, was the first World leader to recognize the UNILATERALLY DECLARED state of Israel

The position of  first prime Minister was offered (& rejected) buy renowned scientist Einstein (a US citizen  at the time).
You also need to realize that this was the twilight of the British Empire (the colonial power in the region) and the beginning of US military domination. But to say there wasn’t any tacit US support wouldn’t be entirely accurate.(Fighter pilot Chalmers Goodlin for instance)
As stated above, most of these things albeit very important, have little bearing on the current state of affairs in the region.
 

davidylan:

1. Pre-1967 there was NO PEACE with Israel . . . what borders were the bone of contention then? Pre-1948 existence?
2. The lands in contention belonged to Egypt and Jordan not any rebel HAMAS or FATAH groups. Since those countries have largely REFUSED to take back their lands (to perpetuate the "palestinian crisis" with the eventual goal of destroying Israel), who shld Israel negotiate with?
Oh and prior to 1967 here is what FATAH had to say about those same lands they now claim is the impediment to "peace" . . .

Now I’m beginning to question your understanding of your history of the Area.
Pre-1967 means land Israel captured during the 6 day war, some of which on the W/bank side they are now building settlements on.
They have returned the Sinai to Egypt (note Sinai is a Hebrew name ),I think they should keep the Golan for security reasons, but the other Arab lands should be returned.

Arabs are Arabs wherever they are. As stated earlier the countries as we know it today were carved out by colonial powers. Jordan, Egypt, Israel etc.

So saying  ‘a land is Egyptian land’ may not be entirely accurate. The fact is Arabs screwed fellow Arabs. The Egyptians simply took Sinai & abandoned Gaza, while Jordan (Formerly Trans Jordan) did the same with the West bank Arabs.

That is the pathetic situation the Palestinians have found themselves (no man’s land), hence the irrelevance of the history you keep referring to.
I have said it before my solution to the whole imbroglio is that Egypt should incorporate Gaza into its borders , while Jordan takes on the west bank & Jerusalem becomes a UN administered city according to the initial UN resolution 181 of 1947.

davidylan:

Its quite RELEVANT . . . the only reason you blind folks dont want to see again is because it completely destroys the narrative you all so want to push. It is obvious and historically correct that the idea of an arab as a "palestinian" DID NOT EXIST prior to 1967 and is an invention of Arafat (himself an Egyptian national who was ejected from Jordan in 1973) . . . 

I’m not blind, again lets be courteous. . . absolutely no need for insults !  I still insist the name they are called is irrelevant. Arabs, Palestinians, Egyptians , tranjordanians, fatah, hamas is not relevant. What they need is a country to call theirs.

davidylan:

Beyond the usual "pray for Israel" . . . what political clout does the evangelical movement in the US have to concretely support Israel? So the evangelical movement here is the one arming and defending Israel?
I think i understand what you TRULY mean to say . . . it is what we have heard from arabs and muslims the world over - the US support of Israel is the ONLY REASON arabs are afraid to attack and ultimately destroy Israel.
they tried in 1948, 1967 and 1973.
but they dont have diplomatic relations with Israel allegedly BECAUSE of the "palestinians" eh?

US support isn’t the only reason. Israel has the largest per capita military in the world, almost 30% of its population. They are the only nuclear power in the region. They have defeated repeatedly Arab aggression add to that the ruthless assassination of militants.

In addition the have made peace with Egypt & Jordan. . . . .so attacking them isn’t really an option at the moment. . . again CURRENT SITUTION please.

Saudi & co have underground relationship with Israel, they can’t come out cos  as I said in my prev post, most fear the militants. . . the assassinations  of King Abdullah of Jordan ,Anwar Sadat of Egypt are  pointers  to this.

So once there is comprehensive peace, the  Arabs (or Palestinians,fatah,hamas) have a country they can call their own. . . things will begin to happen.

Will we still have mad men like –Osama Bin Hiding-  absolutely (mind you he wants to kill all the members of the saudi royal family as well) !!

wow ! this is really revealing. Never knew we had such enlightened people on NL. . .keep it up guys

I was really impressed until I came across this -

Mariory:

I'm not sure if it's actually possible to be as dense as this

Reading through the intelligent contributions from jairzinho,davidylan & illusion2,I think its clear you're the one not making any sense dude

ElRazur:

Ouch. It is not directed at me, but damn, that hurts.Lol.

It'll only 'hurt'/amuse low-lifes like you . . . duh ! Contribute something sensible & stop being silly !

hymen:


It'll only 'hurt'/amuse low-lifes like you . . . duh ! Contribute something sensible & stop being silly !

First of all, I do not have to prove myself.

Secondly, it is clear to anyone with half a brain that I am merely saying the words used are harsh and perhaps unnecessary.

Finally, you asked me of a contribution while ignoring the fact that your comment is no more valid than mine, as you have NOT contributed to the main discussion at hand. Ironic at least.

ElRazur:

Finally, you asked me of a contribution while ignoring the fact that your comment is no more valid than mine, as you have NOT contributed to the main discussion at hand. Ironic at least.

Fair enough. . . now back to topic

illusion2:

You ARE actually that dense,one reason I avoid discussing serious issues with poorly educated juveniles on NL is just because of this.

Apart from your poor command of the english language,you can't complete a sentence w/out insulting your elders. 

My advice to you is simple,& I'll tell you this one time- stay of the drugs 

Does that mean you have now accepted that it was a mistake to open your mouth and confirm that you are clueless?

Well since we are now off topic, you talk about my use of the English language yet this quote of yours is riddled with poorly written English.

The internet is indeed a great invention.

You should consider the following statement.
"It is better to keep your mouth shut and appear silly than to open it and remove all doubt"

hymen:

Reading through the intelligent contributions from _ _ _& illusion2,I think its clear you're the one not making any sense dude 

Oh dear! Ok I'll humour you. Please mate, do fill me in on what part of my post was senseless?

illusion2:

One thing I have noticed about you David, is you expend so much energy on revisionist HISTORY. While the historical antecedents of any situation are important, they aren’t the only factor to be considered.

this is baseless . . .

1. All the historical stuff i have stated ARE ESTABLISHED FACTS . . . do you understand what "revisionism" means?

2. NOT ONCE have you tried to DEBUNK what you claim is "revisionist history" which tells me you either do not know or just dont want facts to get in the way of popular arab propaganda (which IS the revisionist history in this case).

3. When you folks claim we rely on revisionist history, is it because it destroys your myopic and clearly false logic?

illusion2:

Most of what you are stating has no bearing on the current situation of things in the ME.

When you talk of "current situation" of things in the middle east are you trying to allege that the Israeli-palestinian problem is "current" and totally divorced from the actions that occured as far back as 1922 or 1948?

illusion2:

Yes , the PLO has antecedents, but Yasser Arafat’s legacy is as relevant to the current Israeli-Palestinian situation as  Nairaland is (not very relevant). The PLO has moved on, the world’s view has moved on, the[b] overwhelming Arab view has equally moved on[/b].
So let’s stay CURRENT & not continue to quote irrelevant historical accidents.

It is pointless debating with people with such an uninformed opinion as this.

illusion2:

Going back memory lane however, I am shocked to read this statement. US president Harry Truman, was the first World leader to recognize the UNILATERALLY DECLARED state of Israel

But Harry S. Truman was nowhere to be found when 6 arab nations (backed up with Russian military hardware) attacked Israel in 1948 and 1967 . . . that IS THE ISSUE . . . not Truman's worthless statements.

illusion2:

The position of  first prime Minister was offered (& rejected) buy renowned scientist Einstein (a US citizen  at the time).

That's because he was jewish . . . what did this have to do with official US policy?

illusion2:

You also need to realize that this was the twilight of the British Empire (the colonial power in the region) and the beginning of US military domination. But to say there wasn’t any tacit US support wouldn’t be entirely accurate.(Fighter pilot Chalmers Goodlin for instance)
As stated above, most of these things albeit very important, have little bearing on the current state of affairs in the region.

 

this is misleading . . . you have basically stated your own opinion. There is no proof that the US ever volunteered to assist Israel in 1948. Only France did.

illusion2:

Now I’m beginning to question your understanding of your history of the Area.

what a joke.

illusion2:

Pre-1967 means land Israel captured during the 6 day war, some of which on the W/bank side they are now building settlements on.
They have returned the Sinai to Egypt (note Sinai is a Hebrew name ),I think they should keep the Golan for security reasons, but the other Arab lands should be returned.

This is basically rubbish and is frankly ironic coming from someone who wants to question my "understanding of the history of the area".

1. The West Bank was actually JUDEA/SAMARIA in 1949 prior to it being ILLEGALLY annexed by Jordan. Jordan is east of the jordan river while judea/samaria (then a part of the Israeli state) is west. That is why the Jordanians re-named it the "west bank". That name didnt exist before 1949.

2. You and other equally misguided souls keep claiming that all Israel needs to do to obtain peace is to go back to its 1967 borders . . . if "settlements" in the west bank and Gaza were the only problem then WHY did Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Iraq and co attack Israel in 1967 when these lands were in the hands of both Egypt and Jordan? Which settlements were they fighting for then?

3. Israel has TRIED to give back the west bank and Gaza SEVERAL TIMES . . . both Egypt and Jordan (those who lost the land to Israel in 1967) have BLUNTLY REFUSED!

4. Jews were the original inhabitants of the west bank (then Judea and Samaria or east Jerusalem) . . . they were illegally removed after Jordan annexed it in 1949. To say that returning jews there are illegal settlements is anti-semitic propaganda and DELIBERATE ethnic cleansing of the jews.

illusion2:

That is the pathetic situation the Palestinians have found themselves (no man’s land), hence the irrelevance of the history you keep referring to.
I have said it before my solution to the whole imbroglio is that Egypt should incorporate Gaza into its borders , while Jordan takes on the west bank & Jerusalem becomes a UN administered city according to the initial UN resolution 181 of 1947.

Which is EXACTLY what the Israeli government has advocated for decades. Remember the 3 Nos of Khartoum in 1967?

And you say history is irrelevant? What a complete joke.

illusion2:

So once there is comprehensive peace, the  Arabs (or Palestinians,fatah,hamas) have a country they can call their own. . . things will begin to happen.

This is wishful thinking and again is because a lot of you like to bury your heads in the sands with your constant cry of "current situation pls, history is irrelevant".

To discuss the ME conflict devoid of historical facts is a waste of time. The arab "palestinians" are not fighting because they need a "country to call their own". The PLO was set up in 1964 (3 yrs BEFORE Israel had Gaza or the WestBank) . . . what country where they fighting for?

Jordan is 95% arab "palestinian" and you want YET A SECOND palestinian nation? Out of what land? Israel that is only 8 miles wide?

I dont know how i missed this . . .

[size=16pt]Now on the ‘absolutely untrue’ statement, you have stated yourself “Jordan was created for the Sheikhs of Mecca”. . . . by whom?[/size]
Who created modern day Iraq ,Bahrain, Israel, Egypt,Nigeria,USA?. . . .the list goes on !

Hmmm how was that statement "absolutely untrue"?

Jordan was carved out of "historic palestine" (you know the piece of land the arab "palestinians" claim is theirs) in 1922 to placate the arabs in "historic palestine" and prevent them from attacking the French who were then occupying southern Syria and planned to excise the arabs from there . . . read up on the naakba of 1922.

King Abdullah, a Hashemite prince from Mecca was installed as its first king. Note that Mecca is NOWHERE near "historic palestine" . . .

This is getting really interesting. . . . . .

@davidylan,I understand your passion on this. . .but Im beginning to question your maturity.

You seem unable to articulate your points without personal attacks.

One of the problems in life (as reflected in the ME problems as well) is that we are quick to think of the worst in each other.
Neither you nor anybody on this thread is even remotely connected to Israel or the arabs ,try to seperate your emotions from your posts.
Below a list of your most recent outbursts: 

davidylan:

because it destroys your myopic and clearly false logic?It is pointless debating with people with such an uninformed opinion as this.
This is basically rubbish and is frankly ironic coming from someone who wants to question my "understanding of the history of the area".
. You and other equally misguided souls keep claiming that all Israel
This is wishful thinking and again is because a lot of you like to bury your heads in the sands with your constant cry of "current situation pls, history is irrelevant".

I'm taking my time to go through all the posts from yesterday & as always i'll get back to you 

Jairzinho:

This is getting really interesting. . . . . .

@davidylan,I understand your passion on this. . .but Im beginning to question your maturity.

You seem unable to articulate your points without personal attacks.

Decrying personal attacks with . . . err personal attacks of his own. What a hypocrite. When you cant refute facts its just easier to devolve into searching for non-existent "personal attacks".

It is NO personal attack to expose the fact that you and illusion2 basically have no idea what you are debating.

Jairzinho:

One of the problems in life (as reflected in the ME problems as well) is that we are quick to think of the worst in each other.
Neither you nor anybody on this thread is even remotely connected to Israel or the arabs ,try to seperate your emotions from your posts.

What did this have to do with the thread?

davidylan:

What did this have to do with the thread?

Plenty. Give everyone the benefit of doubt. You are trying to push your point of view ditto others. There are 2 sides to every coin,so don't be quick to call people myopic,misguided,blind etc

dayokanu:

He is a leader of Hamas a terror organisation that lauches Qassam rockets as a way of wakingpeople up in Southern Israel.
Like saying Nassrallah or Osama is someones father

Mariory:

The guy was a senior commander in Hamas.
[I]'[Peace]  initiatives,   and   so-called   peaceful   solutions  and international conferences are in contradiction to the  principles  of the Islamic Resistance Movement,  Those conferences are no more than a means to appoint the  infidels  as  arbitrators  in  the  lands  of Islam,  There is no solution for the Palestinian problem  except  by Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are but a waste of time, an exercise in futility.' [/I]- Article 13, Hamas Charter (The convenant of Hamas)[I]
'The Day of Judgment will not come about until Moslems fight Jews and kill them. Then, the Jews will hide behind rocks and trees,  and  the rocks and trees will cry out: 'O Moslem, there is a Jew hiding behind me, come and kill him.' [/I]- Article 7, Hamas Charter (The convenent of Hamas)
Epic @ "palestinian freedom fighters". What a joke.

War is the terrorism of the rich on the poor,while terrorism is the War of the poor on the rich.  Imagine forging the travel documents of friendly nations? The end justifies the means ?

davidylan:

It is NO personal attack to expose the fact that _ _ _ illusion2 basically have no idea what you are debating.

Agreed. If nothing else for the fact that he is attempting to associate Palestinian Christians with Hamas. Laughable! Truely laughable.

Jairzinho:

War is the terrorism of the rich on the poor,while terrorism is the War of the poor on the rich.  Imagine forging the travel documents of friendly nations?  The end justifies the means ?

Since you quoted me when you posted this I will reply with one question. There are many instances throughout history where battles have been waged between equally wealthy countries/entities. For example, 100 years war between France and the UK. Do you not define that as war?

And yes the end justifies the means. This guy killed Israeli citizens. Frankly he asked for it.

Like I stated when I started this thread,my main motivation is to challenge our natural christian tendency to always support the Israeli point of view .

Please take time to read the following articles with an ^{unbiased mind of course}

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4499668.stm

http://www.al-bushra.org/holyland/sabella.htm

What are the links suppossed to show us?

Mariory:

Since you quoted me when you posted this I will reply with one question. There are many instances throughout history where battles have been waged between equally wealthy countries/entities. For example, 100 years war between France and the UK. Do you not define that as war?
And yes the end justifies the means. This guy killed Israeli citizens. Frankly he asked for it.

My definition is relevant to the current situation. i don't agree with terrorism in any form esp the MTFs that believe there's a virgin waiting for them.

The palestinian issue however,is a really complex multi-faceted problem which requires a paradigm shift.

Unfortunately 'the end justifies the means' is the language of the lawless.

He should have been brought before a court ,tried,convicted & sentenced accordingly.

When a sovereign country resorts to such lows as forging passports,assasinating people in their hotel rooms in a foreign country. . .  .our God given human conscience that clearly differentiates good from evil should come to the fore  and reject this!

Mariory:

What are the links suppossed to show us?

Mr 'Peacemaker' it shows the state of Christianity in the region ,as well as the complexities therein vis a vis Jewish,muslims & israeli govt policies.

Jairzinho:

Plenty. Give everyone the benefit of doubt. You are trying to push your point of view ditto others. There are 2 sides to every coin,so don't be quick to call people myopic,misguided,blind etc

Facts are facts . . . there is no 2-sides to the truth, it is what it is. You either know it or you dont.

For example you posted this - The Arabs can’t serve in the military and many other key sectors. (if indeed they are 1st class equal citizens, why not?)

Now i cant give you the "benefit of the doubt" on such a blatant display of IGNORANCE. That statement you made there (with misguided authority i might add) is SIMPLY NOT TRUE. You may ask me to provide evidence and i will gladly do so.

One thing that is however common to you and illusion2 is this . . .

You -

4.   Stop referencing IRRELEVANT information. Whatever FATAH said before(I need your ref however) is not important. What is the situation RIGHT NOW?

illusion2 -

And please leave all these your  ‘pre 1948 palestinian referred to jews not arab’. . . .you’ve posted it so many times ,its really stale (& irrelevant) now.
KADIMA –FORWARD !

Is there a reason people who support the "palestinian" cause are always quick to tell us that history is "irrelevant"? Does this have to do with the FACT that palestinian claims have NO HISTORICAL basis (even as old as 50 yrs ago)?

Jairzinho:

War is the terrorism of the rich on the poor,while terrorism is the War of the poor on the rich.  Imagine forging the travel documents of friendly nations?   The end justifies the means ?

The usual nonsense . . . where is the proof that this was sponsored by Israel?  

and they accuse us of "personal attacks" for exposing their crass nonsense couched as "debates".

Jairzinho:

Mr 'Peacemaker' it shows the state of Christianity in the region ,as well as the complexities therein vis a vis Jewish,muslims & israeli govt policies.

You post links saying exactly what?

Here are the FACTS on ground - christians in Israel have ALL RIGHTS . . . no such rights are granted in Lebanon, Jordan (where it is illegal to build a church), Gaza (which is an islamic "state" by the way) or Saudi Arabia.

Tell us something else we dont know about. Have you read about the plight of the bethlehem christians? I guess not . . . facts dont seem to be something you're interested in.

Jairzinho:

Unfortunately 'the end justifies the means' is the language of the lawless.

He should have been brought before a court ,tried,convicted & sentenced accordingly.

In this scenario, yes the end justifies the means. Asking for him to be brought to trial is wishful thinking and you know it. The fact that the terror these guys seek to put on others can find them in "friendly" countries is as far as I'm concerned fantastic.

The world isin't black and white. You know it and I know it. So let's stop kidding ourselves.

Jairzinho:

My definition is relevant to the current situation. i don't agree with terrorism in any form esp the MTFs that believe there's a virgin waiting for them.

The palestinian issue however,is a really complex multi-faceted problem which requires a paradigm shift.

Unfortunately 'the end justifies the means' is the language of the lawless.

He should have been brought before a court ,tried,convicted & sentenced accordingly.

When a sovereign country resorts to such lows as forging passports,assasinating people in their hotel rooms in a foreign country. . .  .our God given human conscience that clearly differentiates good from evil should come to the fore  and reject this!

1. There is NO PROOF that Israel carried out the killing of Al Mabouh.

2. Where were you when Al Mabouh was killing Israeli soldiers? Did you also decry his lawlessness?

3. Do you know that the CIA, KGB, Nigeria's SSS and co also do the exact same thing you hypocrites cry that Mossad does?

Jairzinho:

Mr 'Peacemaker'  it shows the state of Christianity in the region ,as well as the complexities therein vis a vis Jewish,muslims & israeli govt policies.  

Again Mr 'airz' please explain to me what the state of Christians in the Middle East region has to do with Hamas.  

davidylan:

Facts are facts . . . there is no 2-sides to the truth, it is what it is. You either know it or you dont.

For example you posted this - The Arabs can’t serve in the military and many other key sectors. (if indeed they are 1st class equal citizens, why not?)

Now i cant give you the "benefit of the doubt" on such a blatant display of IGNORANCE. That statement you made there (with misguided authority i might add) is SIMPLY NOT TRUE. You may ask me to provide evidence and i will gladly do so.

I can see you have a heart of stone (zech 7:12). . . .I'll pray for you.
Please provide your evidence -which you should have done anyway before calling me ignorant.

Jairzinho:

I can see you have a heart of stone (zech 7:12). . . .I'll pray for you.
Please provide your evidence -which you should have done anyway before calling me ignorant.

1. Dont bother with the prayer, your time would be better served reading up on issues before coming here to expose your own emptiness.

2. Thanks for asking for proof (even though you provided NO PROOF for your own baseless claims) . . . here we go . . .

Arabs Uneasy About Joining Israeli Army
- TEL AVIV - The Israeli government has begun to actively promote voluntary army service for Israeli Arabs. The Knesset, the Israeli parliament, is meanwhile considering plans to make civil service compulsory for all Israeli citizens, including Israeli Arabs.

The Arab community in Israel is opposing the plans, and leaders say these are only a way of getting rid of Palestinian identity. They also have misgivings about compulsory national civil service, which means community service in towns, hospitals, or schools as an alternative to military service.

davidylan:

1. There is NO PROOF that Israel carried out the killing of Al Mabouh.

2. Where were you when Al Mabouh was killing Israeli soldiers? Did you also decry his lawlessness?

3. Do you know that the CIA, KGB, Nigeria's SSS and co also do the exact same thing you hypocrites cry that Mossad does?

Still waiting for your proof/rebuttal,that Arabs serve fully in the israeli military  

[size=18pt]Because others do it. . .does that MAKE IT RIGHT ??   [/size]

Where is the Christ in Christians nowadays sef ?

Mariory:

Again Mr 'Jairz' please explain to me what the state of Christians in the Middle East region has to do with Hamas.  

Please read my previous posts on this,I said the christians are affected negatively by the Israeli actions

I need to go out briefly,I'll be back in 3 hours to check your posts. Cheers, no insults please. . . .Lets agree to disagree,no need for personal attacks ,Thanks  

Jairzinho:

I can see you have a heart of stone (zech 7:12). . . .I'll pray for you.
Please provide your evidence -which you should have done anyway before calling me ignorant.

1. Dont bother with the prayer, your time would be better served reading up on issues before coming here to expose your own emptiness.

2. Thanks for asking for proof (even though you provided NO PROOF for your own baseless claims) . . . here we go . . .

Arabs Uneasy About Joining Israeli Army
- TEL AVIV - The Israeli government has begun to actively promote voluntary army service for Israeli Arabs. The Knesset, the Israeli parliament, is meanwhile considering plans to make civil service compulsory for all Israeli citizens, including Israeli Arabs.

The Arab community in Israel is opposing the plans, and leaders say these are only a way of getting rid of Palestinian identity. They also have misgivings about compulsory national civil service, which means community service in towns, hospitals, or schools as an alternative to military service.


More proof:

More Arabs joining Israeli army
Recruitment figures obtained by Israel's Ha'aretz daily newspaper show a significant increase in the number of Arabs joining the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) during the first nine months of 2008.

Distorting Israeli Arab Reality
Miller's first claim ― that Israeli Arabs lack 'access to military or national service' ― is patently false. While Arab Israelis are not generally required to serve in the IDF, many (especially from the Druze and Bedouin communities) proudly volunteer to do so, and have served with great distinction.

In fact, both the LA Times and Christian Science Monitor have recognized Arab service in the IDF on their own pages. As noted by Snapshots, the LA Times published a correction of a similar error in Feb. 2004, stating that 'In fact, although they cannot be drafted and most choose not to serve, Israeli Palestinians can enlist in the service'. And the CSM published an in-depth article on Arab Israelis in 2002 that noted:

As Arab citizens of Israel, the villagers aren't required to serve in the army. They go by choice, almost every family in the village has a member in the local military cemetery.

Indeed, a recent study indicated that the number of Arab volunteers to the IDF ― including Muslim Arabs ― is growing. Given both media outlets' prior recognition of this fact, the error can only be ascribed to sloppy editorial review, which should be acknowledged and corrected.


Examples of arab GENERALS in the IDF - Major General Hussain Fares

Jairzinho still wants more "proof"? Maybe you shld study first before making noise. People like you make me sick.

Again my rebuttal to Jairzinho gets removed . . . i will have to take out the links.

Jairzinho:

I can see you have a heart of stone (zech 7:12). . . .I'll pray for you.
Please provide your evidence -which you should have done anyway before calling me ignorant.

1. Dont bother with the prayer, your time would be better served reading up on issues before coming here to expose your own emptiness.

2. Thanks for asking for proof (even though you provided NO PROOF for your own baseless claims) . . . here we go . . .

Arabs Uneasy About Joining Israeli Army
- TEL AVIV - The Israeli government has begun to actively promote voluntary army service for Israeli Arabs. The Knesset, the Israeli parliament, is meanwhile considering plans to make civil service compulsory for all Israeli citizens, including Israeli Arabs.

The Arab community in Israel is opposing the plans, and leaders say these are only a way of getting rid of Palestinian identity. They also have misgivings about compulsory national civil service, which means community service in towns, hospitals, or schools as an alternative to military service.

More proof:

More Arabs joining Israeli army
Recruitment figures obtained by Israel's Ha'aretz daily newspaper show a significant increase in the number of Arabs joining the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) during the first nine months of 2008.

Distorting Israeli Arab Reality
Miller's first claim ― that Israeli Arabs lack 'access to military or national service' ― is patently false. While Arab Israelis are not generally required to serve in the IDF, many (especially from the Druze and Bedouin communities) proudly volunteer to do so, and have served with great distinction.

In fact, both the LA Times and Christian Science Monitor have recognized Arab service in the IDF on their own pages. As noted by Snapshots, the LA Times published a correction of a similar error in Feb. 2004, stating that 'In fact, although they cannot be drafted and most choose not to serve, Israeli Palestinians can enlist in the service'. And the CSM published an in-depth article on Arab Israelis in 2002 that noted:

As Arab citizens of Israel, the villagers aren't required to serve in the army. They go by choice, almost every family in the village has a member in the local military cemetery.

Indeed, a recent study indicated that the number of Arab volunteers to the IDF ― including Muslim Arabs ― is growing. Given both media outlets' prior recognition of this fact, the error can only be ascribed to sloppy editorial review, which should be acknowledged and corrected.


Examples of arab GENERALS in the IDF - Major General Hussain Fares

Jairzinho still wants more "proof"? Maybe you shld study first before making noise. People like you make me sick.

Jairzinho:

Still waiting for your proof/rebuttal,that Arabs serve fully in the israeli military  

You didnt need to "wait" . . . google exists . . . use it.

Jairzinho:

[size=18pt]Because others do it. . .does that MAKE IT RIGHT ??   [/size]

Where is the Christ in Christians nowadays sef ?

We are talking politics here not the morality of war.

Jairzinho:

Please read my previous posts on this, I said the christians are affected negatively by the Israeli actions

how? Pls explain . . . i grow tired of empty claims that hold no water.

Jairzinho:

I need to go out briefly,I'll be back in 3 hours to check your posts. Cheers, no insults please. . . .Lets agree to disagree,no need for personal attacks ,Thanks  

Take your own advice first.

Jairzinho:

Still waiting for your proof/rebuttal,that Arabs serve fully in the israeli military  

Arabs Uneasy About Joining Israeli Army

More Arabs joining Israeli army

Distorting Israeli Arab Reality

Examples of arab GENERALS in the IDF - Major General Hussain Fares

I am expecting Jairzinho to apologise for lying.

rebuttal removed the third time . . . jairzinho shld pls use google to confirm his case.

I can only paste it so many times

http://www.honestreporting.com/articles/45884734/critiques/Distorting_Israeli_Arab_Reality.asp

http://newstrust.net/stories/37412/toolbar

Jairzinho:

Please read my previous posts on this,I said the christians are affected negatively by the Israeli actions

Ah now I see. Well it is unfortunate for those Christains but, you cannot possibly deny the Israelis their right to self defence because the Arabs will turn on defenseless Christians (something we have seen several times in Nigeria here itself). If the fight/battle/war whatever you want to call it is between Arabs and Jews, then why do the Arabs attack Christains? This is the question you should be asking Arabs.

jairzinho isnt interested in honest facts. Mariory, you despair to educate him.