To introduce this subject, we must find the answer to one great, basic question. If we can answer it correctly, all the other questions about death and the soul will open up like flowers in the sun. The really important issue is this: What kind of inherent nature does man possess? How did God create him? Does he have a mortal nature or an immortal nature? According to the dictionary, the word “mortal” means “subject to death,” and the word “immortal” means “not subject to death.” Simply stated then, we are asking whether God created man with a nature that could die or with the power of an endless life.

Click on the link below to find 100% biblical answers to this and many more like important questions about life, soul, death and the spirit of the dead.

https://www.amazingfacts.org/media-library/book/e/48/t/spirits-of-the-dead

Cc: Ubenedictus, easymancfc

DoctorAlien:
Click on the link below to find 100% biblical answers to this and many more like important questions about life, soul, death and the spirit of the dead.

https://www.amazingfacts.org/media-library/book/e/48/t/spirits-of-the-dead

Cc: Ubenedictus, easymancfc

I have seen all your adventist quotes from the job and psalm etc to support your views and I have refuted them many times so thanks but no thanks... p.s. only Adventist and Jehovah's witnesses and a handful of others believe that... 90% of Christians don't believe in that..

easymancfc:


I have seen all your adventist quotes from the job and psalm etc to support your views and I have refuted them many times so thanks but no thanks... p.s. only Adventist and Jehovah's witnesses and a handful of others believe that... 90% of Christians don't believe in that..

You refuted verses from the Bible? That's wonderful. Why don't you post your "refutations" to all the points made in the article for all to see?

Majority has been wrong most of the time. That a large number of people believes it does not make it correct.

DoctorAlien:


You refuted verses from the Bible? That's wonderful. Why don't you post your "refutations" to all the points made in the article for all to see?

Majority has been wrong most of the time. That a large number of people believes it does not make it correct.

I didn't refute the Bible.. I refuted your interpretations and presentation of it as "proof" for your beliefs... I don't have to.. I can point you to Many Christian sites that have...

You're right.. majority can be wrong... but the fact remains that most times the minority are mostly wrong... 99% of the time.. In the case.. the minority is rightly wrong...

easymancfc:


I didn't refute the Bible.. I refuted your interpretations and presentation of it as "proof" for your beliefs... I don't have to.. I can point you to Many Christian sites that have...

You're right.. majority can be wrong... but the fact remains that most times the minority are mostly wrong... 99% of the time.. In the case.. the minority is rightly wrong...

Why don't you post your refutations to the points made in the article which are 100% backed with Scripture?

Actually, majority has been wrong 99% of the time, especially in matters concerning religion.

DoctorAlien:


Why don't you post your refutations to the points made in the article which are 100% backed with Scripture?

Actually, majority has been wrong 99% of the time, especially in matters concerning religion.

Its tedious... time is a factor I don't have in excess.. But rest assured.. I know all your arguments..

Like I said.. I will point you to articles... am sure you didn't write the article.. So I don't have to refute your article point by point.. I don't have the time right now

easymancfc:


Its tedious... time is a factor I don't have in excess.. But rest assured.. I know all your arguments..

Like I said.. I will point you to articles... am sure you didn't write the article.. So I don't have to refute your article point by point.. I don't have the time right now

You can try to evade the truth all you want but surely others will come in contact with it, and will by it be delivered from the bondage and befuddlement of falsehood.

DoctorAlien:


You can try to evade the truth all you want but surely others will come in contact with it, and will by it be delivered from the bondage and befuddlement of falsehood.

So because I don't have time to go through your lengthy article point by point I am evading truth
LOL...

you can believe that if it makes you feel better...

Like I said, I will gladly point you to articles all you have to do is ask...

easymancfc:

...90% of Christians don't believe in that..

More correctly put: "90% of CHURCHIANITY don't believe it".

Of course, right. I mean, not that you guys believe the Bible anyway, as yours has always been: "...teaching for doctrines the commandments of MEN (Mark 7:7). Just mere silly fabrications that stands no Bible scrutiny. But you see, the number on your side doesn't matter at all. What matters is that the word of God is sure, and His true believers believes and hear them.

Or have you not heard that the way of salvation is not found by many but a tiny few? (Matthew 7:14). Go ahead, claim even 99%. Again I tell you: IT MATTERS NOT AT ALL.

Splinz:


More correctly put: "90% of CHURCHIANITY don't believe it".

Of course, right. I mean, not that you guys believe the Bible anyway, as yours has always been "...teaching for doctrines the commandments of MEN (Mark 7:7). Just mere silly fabrications that stands no Bible scrutiny. But you see, the number on your side doesn't matter at all. What matters is that the word of God is sure, and His true believers believes and hear them.

Or have you not heard that the way of salvation is not found by many but a tiny few? (Matthew 7:14). Go ahead, claim even 99%. Again I tell you: IT MATTERS NOT AT ALL.

Succinct.

Splinz:


More correctly put: "90% of CHURCHIANITY don't believe it".

Of course, right. I mean, not that you guys believe the Bible anyway, as yours has always been: "...teaching for doctrines the commandments of MEN (Mark 7:7). Just mere silly fabrications that stands no Bible scrutiny. But you see, the number on your side doesn't matter at all. What matters is that the word of God is sure, and His true believers believes and hear them.

Or have you not heard that the way of salvation is not found by many but a tiny few? (Matthew 7:14). Go ahead, claim even 99%. Again I tell you: IT MATTERS NOT AT ALL.

99 % of Christians believe Jesus is God.. believe he came to die for our sins... So because many believe it.. it is wrong according to your quoting of mat 7:14...

LOL... we don't believe the bible? I leave you to your ignorance

easymancfc, how can anyone claim that the catholic church believes the Bible in the light of these quotes?

"The Pope is of great authority and power that he can modify, explain, or interpret even divine laws... The Pope can modify divine law, since his power is not of man, but of God, and he acts as vicegerent of God upon earth." (Lucius Ferraris, Prompta Bibliotheca, "Papa", art. 2, translated)

"The authority of the Church could therefore not be bound to the authority of the Scriptures, because the church had changed the Sabbath into Sunday, not by command of Christ, but by it's own authority." (Canon and Tradition. page 263)

"The doctrines of the Catholic Church are entirely independent of Holy Scripture." (Familiar Explanation of Catholic Doctrine. Rev. M Muller, page 151)

And then you remember the words of Jesus in Matt. 15:9 "But in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men"

DoctorAlien:
easymancfc, how can anyone claim that the catholic church believes the Bible in the light of these quotes?

"The Pope is of great authority and power that he can modify, explain, or interpret even divine laws... The Pope can modify divine law, since his power is not of man, but of God, and he acts as vicegerent of God upon earth." (Lucius Ferraris, Prompta Bibliotheca, "Papa", art. 2, translated)

"The authority of the Church could therefore not be bound to the authority of the Scriptures, because the church had changed the Sabbath into Sunday, not by command of Christ, but by it's own authority." (Canon and Tradition. page 263)

"The doctrines of the Catholic Church are entirely independent of Holy Scripture." (Familiar Explanation of Catholic Doctrine. Rev. M Muller, page 151)

This is not about the Catholic Church... its about if the dead can hear or not... So let's answer the question on ground...

You can open a thread for that later.. and it will be addressed..

Can the dead speak or hear? In Luke 16 Jesus tells us what happened to the dead in a parable, when the rich man and Lazarus died… and in his parable, they are:
1. Conscious
2. They can speak and hear
3. They are definitely not asleep
Now Adventists and others who support soul sleep will say that this is just a parable that the words are symbolic… that may be true.. but that doesn’t mean the elements there mentioned or the story itself is not true.. Jesus used truths that the Jews are familiar with to teach them in parables
Lets look at some parables of Jesus..
1. 10 virgins (wise and foolish)… in jewish marriages as with other customs… virgins wait with the bride for the arrival of the groom…
2. Lost sheep, prodigal son… lost sheep and prodigal son are real life issues.. not just stuff of parables or symbolic things..
3. The talents…. There are real masters and reals servants and situations like that do happen. Faithful and unfaithful servants really exist
4. Yeast that leavens….. yeast actually leavens bread and that is not only true in parables
5. the Wise servant… the servant, the debtors, the master are taken from real life characters..
6. Wheat and the tares… farms are real, enemies are real… weeds among plants till harvest are real..
JESUS ALWAYS USES TRUTH IN ALL HIS PARABLES, SO THE RICH MAN AND LAZARUS BEING CONSCIOUS MUST BE TRUTH BECAUSE JESUS DOESN’T LIE… …

easymancfc:


99 % of Christians believe Jesus is God.. believe he came to die for our sins... So because many believe it.. it is wrong according to your quoting of mat 7:14...

As usual, a warp presentation.

Apparently, you never get it and I wonder when? If you were diligent enough or even remotely knowledgeable about the Scriptures, you would have known that it is not about the NUMBER--in your twisted attempt here, of those who believed these things, either, for even the demons believes (James 2:19). Does it mean the demons too are saved?

easymancfc:

LOL... we don't believe the bible? I leave you to your ignorance

Sorry, I don't think I'm ready for your comic relief.

Splinz:


As usual, a warp presentation.

Apparently, you never get it and I wonder when? If you were diligent enough or even remotely knowledgeable about the Scriptures, you would have known that it is not about the NUMBER--in your twisted attempt here, of those who believed these things, either, for even the demons believes (James 2:19). Does it mean the demons too are saved?



Sorry, I don't think I'm ready for your comic relief.

We are not talking about being saved here... we are talking about what is true... The demons believe it because it is true...

Besides.. I don't need to believe in your soul sleep to be saved... The essentials are belief in Christ, repentance, baptism and perseverance.. Whether the dead are conscious.. which they are is not a criteria for salvation..

easymancfc:


This is not about the Catholic Church... its about if the dead can hear or not... So let's answer the question on ground...

You can open a thread for that later.. and it will be addressed..

Rev. M Muller says that the doctrines of your church are independent of the Holy Scriptures, and I believe you agree with him. How then can you claim to have a biblical basis for the consciousness of the dead, when, as a doctrine of the Catholic church, it is independent of the Holy Scriptures, according to Rev. M Muller?

DoctorAlien:


Rev. M Muller says that the doctrines of your church are independent of the Holy Scriptures, and I believe you agree with him. How then can you claim to have a biblical basis for the consciousness of the dead, when, as a doctrine of the Catholic church, it is independent of the Holy Scriptures, according to Rev. M Muller?

1. Rev Muller is not the Authority.. The Bible is..

2. Your Rev Muller is wrong.. All Catholic doctrine s are either implicitly or explicitly found in scripture..

3. According to the Bible.. the dead are conscious...

4. It is not just a catholic doctrine.. Almost all Christians believe it.

5. Don't use the Catholic church to hide.. your soul sleep heresy is rightly condemned by non and anti catholic denominations also..

easymancfc:


1. Rev Muller is no the Authority.. The Bible is..

2. Your Rev Muller is wrong.. All Catholic doctrine s are either implicitly or explicitly found in scripture..

3. According to the Bible.. the dead are conscious...

4. It is not just a catholic doctrine.. Almost all Christians believe it.

5. Don't use the Catholic church to hide.. your soul sleep heresy is rightly condemned by non and anti catholic denominations also..

My Rev. M Muller? Is he no longer representing the catholic church?

DoctorAlien:


My Rev. M Muller? Is he no longer representing the catholic church?

If he says Catholic doctrine is independent of scripture... then he doesn't represent the Catholic church.. I don't know where you culled that quote from.. but if he said that then he is misrepresenting the Church..

YOU ARE USING THE CATHOLIC CHURCH TO DODGE THE QUESTION AT HAND... CAN THE DEAD SPEAK OR HEAR??

DoctorAlien:


My Rev. M Muller? Is he no longer representing the catholic church?

YOU ARE USING THE CATHOLIC CHURCH TO DODGE THE QUESTION AT HAND... CAN THE DEAD SPEAK OR HEAR??

Can the dead speak?? yes they can according to the bible...

Isaiah 14:9 Sheol beneath is stirred up
to meet you when you come,
it rouses the shades to greet you,
all who were leaders of the earth;
it raises from their thrones
all who were kings of the nations.
10 All of them WILL SPEAK
and say to you:
‘You too have become as weak as we!
You have become like us!’

easymancfc:


If he says Catholic doctrine is independent of scripture... then he doesn't represent the Catholic church.. I don't know where you culled that quote from.. but if he said that then he is misrepresenting the Church..

YOU ARE USING THE CATHOLIC CHURCH TO DODGE THE QUESTION AT HAND... CAN THE DEAD SPEAK OR HEAR??

NO THEY CAN'T. MY FULL ANSWER IS CONTAINED IN THE ARTICLE WHICH YOU ARE AFRAID OF READING.

DoctorAlien:


NO THEY CAN'T. MY FULL ANSWER IS CONTAINED IN THE ARTICLE WHICH YOU ARE AFRAID OF READING.

I have read your article... and its false... quoting Job and ecclesiastics etc wrongly.. If its articles you want them we can go the article way..

easymancfc:


I have read your article... and its false... quoting Job and ecclesiastics etc wrongly.. If its articles you want them we can go the article way..

Amnotunderstanding. Did the article remove or add words to the Bible verses which it quoted? How did the article quote Job and Ecclesiastes etc wrongly?

DoctorAlien:


Amnotunderstanding. Did the article remove or add words to the Bible verses which it quoted? How did the article quote Job and Ecclesiastes etc wrongly?

You dont need to remove or add words to misinterpret...
Let's do it this way.. I don't have strength for quoting and typing.. So quote the passages for me ... and I will point out the error in exegeses..

this is what other Christian sites have to say about your soul sleep doctrine including your "impartial and excellent" site...

http://www.bible.ca/d-death=sleep.htm

https://carm.org/soul-sleep?_e_pi_=7%2CPAGE_ID10%2C7762431838

https://www.gotquestions.org/soul-sleep.html?_e_pi_=7%2CPAGE_ID10%2C4349863025

https://www.blueletterbible.org/faq/don_stewart/don_stewart_127.cfm?_e_pi_=7%2CPAGE_ID10%2C9775796050

https://www.namb.net/apologetics/soul-sleep?_e_pi_=7%2CPAGE_ID10%2C1147952646

All of these are what Other Christian groups say..

you say the doctrine is false because it comes from the Catholic church but non of the sites above are catholic

DoctorAlien:
■ To introduce this subject, we must find the answer to one great, basic question. If we can answer it correctly, all the other questions about death and the soul will open up like flowers in the sun. The really important issue is this: What kind of inherent nature does man possess? How did God create him? Does he have a mortal nature or an immortal nature? According to the dictionary, the word “mortal” means “subject to death,” and the word “immortal” means “not subject to death.” Simply stated then, we are asking whether God created man with a nature that could die or with the power of an endless life.

1. God made it clearly known in Genesis 2 vs 6 -7 & then Genesis 3 vs 16 - 22 that indeed, Man was created a mortal being from his inception. Jesus Christ affirmed God's Truth in John 3 vs 1-8 when He assured those listening tha the only life a man knows from his mother's womb is a physical life which ends which His journey in this physical world comes to end.

Kobojunkie:
1. God made it clearly known in Genesis 2 vs 6 -7 & then Genesis 3 vs 16 - 22 that indeed, Man was created a mortal being from his inception. Jesus Christ affirmed God's Truth in John 3 vs 1-8 when He assured those listening tha the only life a man knows from his mother's womb is a physical life which ends which His journey in this physical world comes to end.

Which god was talking in genesis?