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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Do You Believe What Will Be Will Be, Do You Believe In Destiny? (21662 Views)
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Re: Do You Believe What Will Be Will Be, Do You Believe In Destiny? by Nipeks(m): 12:51am On Aug 28, 2017 |
prinzfavian: You are assuming things. First, I am not a believer of "God". I have not mentioned Destiny or God anywhere. I don't know where you are getting that from. This is not a religious war. My logic is simple. Your actions are shaped by your wants and fears. You don't have absolute control over your wants and fears. Do you understand that or you want me to elaborate? |
Re: Do You Believe What Will Be Will Be, Do You Believe In Destiny? by prinzfavian(m): 12:59am On Aug 28, 2017 |
Emzyme: Lol, don't be confused about God... You can believe whatever you want to but make sure it's the truth and reasonable. No such thing as destiny, no one predetermines what will happen to us in life... Our every seconds actions does. There is a causative factor for everything in life, your previous action results In another one and goes 9n like that in a long chain of events... For instance,... sexual intercourse is meant for married couple if we are to avoid the stress that comes from the after effect of premarital Sex..,. Now let's say we have two stubborn people that still went ahead to have Sex without being married, the gurl got pregnant... Since they were young, she had to abort to save herself from shame and disgrace, unfortunately she died while aborting... Now tell me, if that situation had been destined by God from the onset... For what purpose has it served if it ended this way... Also, doesn't he frown against fornication? So why destine the girl to have a child thru a means he sorely hates... Since he had the power to predestine, why couldn't he have predestined them to get married before having the child?.... Going on and on... We will come to see that everything is wrong with the concept of destiny... |
Re: Do You Believe What Will Be Will Be, Do You Believe In Destiny? by prinzfavian(m): 1:16am On Aug 28, 2017 |
Nipeks: Oh! I'm sorry if I sounded somehow. I do understand, thanks. |
Re: Do You Believe What Will Be Will Be, Do You Believe In Destiny? by Nipeks(m): 1:34am On Aug 28, 2017 |
prinzfavian: Sarcasm? You don't have to stop if you have a point to prove. Maybe if I used emoticons, you would know I'm not offended. I want to be wrong if proven wrong. |
Re: Do You Believe What Will Be Will Be, Do You Believe In Destiny? by WetinConsignMe: 2:00am On Aug 28, 2017 |
tete7000: How about people.who.don't.believe.in.God.or devil and are doing.just fine - like seun.or what's that.facebook founder's name |
Re: Do You Believe What Will Be Will Be, Do You Believe In Destiny? by jareo: 4:44am On Aug 28, 2017 |
Amberon11: Yes Nigeria is destined to be a failed state because the leaders want it to be In my own time Nigeria would be a successful state because I deem it so At the moment, I permit Nigeria to be a successful state but she's not Which takes us to the fact that what would be would be whether or not we permit it If we permit it,it would be, likewise if we don't permit it, it would be The BE here may be likely bring different outcomes, but we know not the outcome of these things So it's still safe to say what would be would be as there are other factors involved Factors out of the ordinary So you're wrong sir/ma But thinking about it deeply, You're right too Crazy topic |
Re: Do You Believe What Will Be Will Be, Do You Believe In Destiny? by Miniano: 5:04am On Aug 28, 2017 |
Destiny exists Everyone is destined to become something in life It's just like programing. You have to learn and know what you are destined to do in life. It's real no religious matters here that just the fact |
Re: Do You Believe What Will Be Will Be, Do You Believe In Destiny? by StaffofOrayan(m): 5:47am On Aug 28, 2017 |
Nipeks: My reference to Nigerian politics/elected politician is an example of the concept, You are right about not being in control because you cannot control all eventualities that is a very obvious deduction, The theory of cause and effect is that the first is SOMEWHAT responsible for the second, and the second is PARTLY dependent on the first. It doesn't mean you control the universe, Destiny is a superstition just like the idea of Bad Luck, another emotional rational, example, the farmer whose farm is flooded on the day of harvest is not 'unlucky' that is just vain pride, the rain did not fall because of him, neither does the universe revolve around him. Hence his inability to anticipate nature (NOT NATURE ITSELF) is the causative factor of his ruined produce - which is an effect, The idea is not to control the effect but anticipate and perfect the cause Personally I believe in Murphy's law "things will go wrong in any given situation, if you give them a chance," or widely used one, "whatever can go wrong, will go wrong." PS: if my initial response was brash, my bad. |
Re: Do You Believe What Will Be Will Be, Do You Believe In Destiny? by tete7000(m): 6:23am On Aug 28, 2017 |
WetinConsignMe: Fine is relative. The scripture always uses the word 'prosper' not 'wealthy' or 'rich'. Infact it warns: if your riches increase, do not put your heart to it, for a man's life is not secured by what he has. A wicked man (a godless man included in this definition) the scripture says is like a grass that grows on the rooftop, today he is there, tomorrow he is gone and gone without a trace. Only God establishes forever. |
Re: Do You Believe What Will Be Will Be, Do You Believe In Destiny? by Unedith(f): 6:40am On Aug 28, 2017 |
ojoisimi: In my opinion, your last sentence sums up everything about destiny. |
Re: Do You Believe What Will Be Will Be, Do You Believe In Destiny? by thoth: 6:47am On Aug 28, 2017 |
Both St Paul and St Augustine wrote decisively on the autonomy of the will, as such the most crucial point is that if the freewill and how others of stronger will might influence the will of others, though they delicately tried to fit this within th3 Christian cosmology one can say that Paul's conversion was a result of a stronger will being imposed on his, not necessary God's but that of the Evangelists of the time. If one can do away with the fantastism of Biblical events such events as Paul's conversion and that of others are can just be reduced to a stronger will on the side of the Evangelist and effects of results from the actions of others, think Butterfly Effect(Fallout). So Paul's conversion to Christianity is no different than you wearing a cardigan on a cold harmattan, it's just a result of a stronger effect(will) imposed on yours and your Sapient capacity to adapt hence protecting your person with the cardigan. Extremists might want to extend this scenario to the choice of color of the cardigan you wore, for that i think it will suffice to say that picking one particular cardigan out about twelve in your wardrobe is just a result of you employing your freewill, after contemplating what color or thickness best matches your private intention for the said event. hence all is a result of our freewill or adapting to the results of others actions which also arises from their own freewill. The concept of destiny was further shattered from the events on the Garden of Eden, if Destiny is by God then why did Adam and Eve disobey God ? does it mean that God 's creation is imperfect hence an imperfect God ? If God had fixed the destiny of Adam,Eve,David etc then why get angry at them when they erred ? Such must be a confusing God which i know our God is not. taking this concept of destiny further then one can say their is nothing like evil men since God that created them set forth such destiny for them and thus they are destined to go to hell, now you can see that this is quite contrary to God's purpose for man. OrdercityWeb: |
Re: Do You Believe What Will Be Will Be, Do You Believe In Destiny? by thoth: 6:58am On Aug 28, 2017 |
Sorry, but all your examples actually proves that the concept of destiny is trash, You arrived at such conclusions based on the amount of information you have on the issue and hence ascribed all positive outcomes to the work of the invisible hands of Destiny. If to say you are more informed on these issues then you'll see that Goodluck became the president because of a carefully orchestrated imposing of will by others whom are more Self-aware. Hence his presidency serves some purposes for those that imposed him and when he became less useful he became deposed. Look at what Buhari is going through , would you call that destiny ? The amount of hardwork does not always equate to success(attainment of intent) but a combination of the Human Will and Situational Awareness. Hence the maxim prevalent in the National intelligence community is that "Nothing is by Chance". ojoisimi: |
Re: Do You Believe What Will Be Will Be, Do You Believe In Destiny? by thoth: 7:08am On Aug 28, 2017 |
Wrong, Our Freewill precedes our actions, hence you have in the same theater of war parties trying to achieve opposing aims which is to totally annihilate each other. They all might want to succeed but may not have the will to dog it out. in the same length two broke men might come to different outcomes when one might decide to rob a bank and the other to go into farming. the Bank robber's outcome is determined by the strength of the will of the security guards to protect their lot, he might emerge a wealthy man if his will dominates theirs or might lose his life as well. the Agric guy might make a living from his venture or killed by a Bank Robber on his way to withdraw money to buy farming tools. Nipeks: |
Re: Do You Believe What Will Be Will Be, Do You Believe In Destiny? by Akwaudene87(m): 7:46am On Aug 28, 2017 |
tosyne2much:and what do you think that made others to be treated fairly and other unfairly |
Re: Do You Believe What Will Be Will Be, Do You Believe In Destiny? by OrdercityWeb: 7:49am On Aug 28, 2017 |
thoth:Okay. Thanks for the detailed explanation. Let's not elongate it. Lol |
Re: Do You Believe What Will Be Will Be, Do You Believe In Destiny? by tosyne2much(m): 7:53am On Aug 28, 2017 |
Akwaudene87:Family background, gender, etc. However, some people are always being lucky while other are always being unlucky in their endeavours Or would you tell that African countries are destined not to win world cup? |
Re: Do You Believe What Will Be Will Be, Do You Believe In Destiny? by tosyne2much(m): 8:01am On Aug 28, 2017 |
ojoisimi:You made a very good points bro. My ideology about life changed the moment I became an adult. It's true that some people will remain poor no matter how much they struggle to attain height in life while some people will be rich with little or no struggle |
Re: Do You Believe What Will Be Will Be, Do You Believe In Destiny? by tosyne2much(m): 8:10am On Aug 28, 2017 |
prinzfavian:No such thing as destiny and this is very evident in the story of Adam and Eve. God gave them the power to choose between life and death and they chose the latter. Or should we say that it has been destined that Adam and Eve will betray God? Like I said earlier, nobody is destined to die in an auto crash, carelessness and lack of safety precautions result in MOST auto crash. No father is destined to sleep with his own daughter, no man is destined to marry a troublesome wife and vice versa. Seun Osewa was not destined to own Nairaland. The term "destiny" is only used to encourage people to accept their fate especially when they have tried their best and things seem not to be working out 1 Like |
Re: Do You Believe What Will Be Will Be, Do You Believe In Destiny? by Zenlife: 8:22am On Aug 28, 2017 |
LordKO: Won't you need to be privy to the original course to be aware or suggestive of a possible alteration? |
Re: Do You Believe What Will Be Will Be, Do You Believe In Destiny? by Nipeks(m): 8:26am On Aug 28, 2017 |
thoth: I get your point. The stronger your will power, the higher your chance of success. But why do some people have stronger will than others? Everybody wants to be successful. Why can't everybody just increase their will power if it's that straight forward? Because the will power is also an effect of a greater cause which they can't control. That is my point. A christian whose parent was killed by boko haram will definitely have more will power to join the military against the terrorists than a Muslim who has been indoctrinated into jihad. If the effect cannot not choose its cause then Free Will is not actually free will after all. |
Re: Do You Believe What Will Be Will Be, Do You Believe In Destiny? by WetinConsignMe: 8:30am On Aug 28, 2017 |
tete7000: Well, the bible also says that those who.worship the Lord.will.prosper here on.earth. However you define it if someone.clearly suffers and then dies and his children inherits the suffering, I don't see how you.can.say.they prospered.more than.someone who.clearly had it all, had a glorious burial and his progeny's wellbeing assured for generations. |
Re: Do You Believe What Will Be Will Be, Do You Believe In Destiny? by prinzfavian(m): 9:40am On Aug 28, 2017 |
tosyne2much:True talk Bro, True talk... |
Re: Do You Believe What Will Be Will Be, Do You Believe In Destiny? by Nipeks(m): 9:43am On Aug 28, 2017 |
StaffofOrayan: Your initial response was not harsh at all. You have agreed that you are not in control because you cannot control all eventualities. It is easy to take credit after trying very hard and everything eventually fell into place. Maybe you even pulled some strings yourself that contributed to everything falling into place. But not everybody has the strength, opportunity, motivation e.t.c that you had. They did not choose not to have those advantages. If those disadvantages are factors that determine their will power then they are not also in control of their will power. But even will power is not enough. There are people who tried harder and pulled more strings than you but didn't succeed because of the situation beyond their control. If you roll a dice 1 million times under the same condition (e.g the size and shape of the dice, the direction and speed of the dice, the motion of the hand rolling the dice etc.) you will also get the same result. The dice may think it's size and shape is a factor that influenced the outcome but it did not choose the cause of its size and shape, therefore, it did not choose the outcome. Free Will is literally not free will. |
Re: Do You Believe What Will Be Will Be, Do You Believe In Destiny? by prinzfavian(m): 9:49am On Aug 28, 2017 |
Nipeks: Smiles, I wasn't being sarcastic.. I was sincerely apologizing, I didn't know your stance about God before chipping that in... So I was apologizing for being presumptious... I do believe there is no such thing as destiny... Everything that happens to us is as a result of our actions, which describes Freewill... But you claimed is an illusion, so I was just trying tell you its not... But if I may ask, what's your opinion about God? |
Re: Do You Believe What Will Be Will Be, Do You Believe In Destiny? by prinzfavian(m): 10:27am On Aug 28, 2017 |
Nipeks: |
Re: Do You Believe What Will Be Will Be, Do You Believe In Destiny? by tete7000(m): 10:28am On Aug 28, 2017 |
WetinConsignMe: I already told you the Bible emphasises prosperity; not wealth, not riches as the world wants it. 'Prosperity' is the word here. I didn't tell you that the righteous will not prosper here on earth. However, we need to find out the real meaning of prosperity. All the atheist rich people, are they really prospering? Can man prosper without God? Those are the questions that should engage your mind. When you find answers you will probably equally arrive at full meaning of destiny. |
Re: Do You Believe What Will Be Will Be, Do You Believe In Destiny? by prinzfavian(m): 10:28am On Aug 28, 2017 |
Nipeks: Freewill is just literarily what it is - Freewill. You're getting it somehow wrong with your analogy of the dice... Since the dice can 'think', then... That shows the presence of freewill... Now exercising it is this... True, same outcome will be for the dice if it's being rolled under same condition a million times... But that's not freewill... You're not sure if you're rolling the dice the way it wants to roll cos you're the one rolling it, you're the one in control not the dice.. How's that freewill? ... Freewill is when the dice rolls itself and whatever the outcome is is as a result of its own act.... Not yours. Now also true, it didn't choose it's size and shape and some other factor.... Isn't that true of everything? There is a default setting for everything, because everything has to start with something... but as time goes on our actions changes that... If the dice keeps rolling, it's size changes due to wear and tear and it scratches against the surface... Hence it's shape will be affected, it's speed and other things that were there from the onset... But it's like that now because it has chosen to roll, as much time as it chooses and how it chooses to... So freewill is literally freewill. |
Re: Do You Believe What Will Be Will Be, Do You Believe In Destiny? by thoth: 10:54am On Aug 28, 2017 |
Description of concepts such as Freewill does not lend itself to "black box" phenomenon whereby certain determinants just emerges from a theoretical black box(greater cause,God,Deity etc) rather its best understood if the world we live in is viewed as a finite machine, whereby the action of others influences the choice/cause of actions of succeeding actors. So why do some people have stronger will than others one may still ask, the same reason why some people are taller due to genes, fair skinned, blue eyed, or violent due to environmental influences. I may assume you a civilized person and in my dealings with you , you might choose to be honest, if along the line that i decided to cheat or renegade on my agreements with you then your level of exposure,education and influence will determine whether you will choose to sue me to court or shoot me with a gun. These determinants are factors which shape the perception of our will, whether its strong in this scenario or weaker in relation to mine. I should also stress that such perception are wholly event based in the sense that your will might be stronger than mine this event but may prove far weaker in another scenario. Such phenomena is a good example of Dynamic Systems and you can gain further understanding if you study Chaos theory to a light extent. The problem with discussions such as this is that these concepts has been highly Theologized and Dogmatized by religious institutions which operate solely on "Faith Based Mechanisms" where potent inquiries are shunned and classified as heresy, thus analyzing Freewill from a religious viewpoint might seem awkward in the absence of any form of "Higher Cause"(God,Deity etc) to the uninformed. Take a few minutes of your time and read about Game theory, its meaning and applications. i find it easier to comprehend and will answer most questions you have on the concept of Will and Supremacy of Will. Nipeks: |
Re: Do You Believe What Will Be Will Be, Do You Believe In Destiny? by TinaAnita(f): 11:10am On Aug 28, 2017 |
tosyne2much: I never talked about dating but love. Let me repeat my comment, I said if someone is not destined to love you there is nothing anyone can do about it. |
Re: Do You Believe What Will Be Will Be, Do You Believe In Destiny? by TinaAnita(f): 11:14am On Aug 28, 2017 |
tosyne2much: I never talked about marriage but love. You can love someone dearly but that doesn't necessarily mean it must lead to marriage |
Re: Do You Believe What Will Be Will Be, Do You Believe In Destiny? by TinaAnita(f): 11:17am On Aug 28, 2017 |
Benekruku: I don't get you. I think you are confusing yourself |
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