NPComplete:


Unfortunately your Bible isn't valid in this context. If we are to take your bible as fact, we will also take the Quran, Talmud, the Kabbalah and other religious or esoteric texts as fact.

Science doesn't identify the existence of God. If it did we won't be having this argument. Even the link u posted says 12 scientists agree about the possibility, not the fact, of God. Of course there is a possibility of God. I believe in God. Even hardcore atheist won't tell u that God is impossible. The only problem is the form of God religion espouses. A god that is usually the projection of human weaknesses. Jealous, angry, capricious and petty, just like the humans that practice the religion.

Lastly, I didn't say the universe is God. I say could be. It is a possibility. Unlike the religious, I don't claim I have absolute answers. I have just created reasonable doubt to impugn whatever religious prejudice u are arguing from.

And that I don't know doesn't mean it is so. At least I am humble enough to admit I don't know and I could be wrong. Same cannot be said of u. And pretence of knowledge isn't exactly the same as knowledge.

NPComplete:


Nope. U said "take mutation and how life stated by the evolution theory for a start". That means u believe that scientists believe life started by evolution. And that is very wrong. That's why I said bye.

bkool7:


If you read the Bible with an open mind , you'll appreciate that the Bible might not be a science book, but its scientifically accurate .

Tell me of any
scientific evidence that contradicts the Bible.
Before scientists start visiting out of speace the Bible had told us of what is out of our world
The Bible covers all areas of science even before we have Meteorologist, Astrologist, Biologist...

That the knowledge of human science is not innovative/vast enough to comprehend biblical occurances doesnt invalidated them.
Science has we know it is evolving and time will tell.
But before that ,there are some scientists/people that have seen and known beyond what science can currently proof.
Science just has to catch up with the knowledge in the Bible

So, the Bible is a cedible reference for science any day.

lordm:
Not all questions are meant to be answered,

chemystery:

If you agree that nothing does not produce something, why assert that something called god came into existence out of nothing and from nowhere? It's either you are confusing yourself or you don't want to be sincere with yourself. You have to choose one between "nothing results to something" or "nothing cannot result to something" and apply it throughout your argument than cherry picking on what your choice applies to and what it doesn't. That is insincerity!
What is wrong in saying "I don't know" by the way?


Now you want to create a new argument on space.
Who defines space and what it is? Is it not humans?
Why then do you want to argue space isn't human construct?
Maybe it is a supernatural construct I guess. You can tell me more


You don't know and you don't know! So don't blame it on grammar.
You also want to blame it on your human instinct. All these while you have been explaining what you don't know as if you are an extraterrestrial being you didn't know you are human, right?

The time when time never existed(if such time ever existed) is on its own a time! There is no 'magomago' about it



Even god too began to exist. How did I know? Same way you knew the universe began to exist

I agree! Same way something called god cannot emerge from nothing!
Something that existed out of nothing abi?
Likely? You are not even sure of this something. Then on the other hand, that something might most likely be dependent as well.
But you want to use same thought to define something you claim existed outside the confines of the universe.
But this is not the case for you, for you can define things that existed outside the confines of time and space. You must be a genius!

Saying he exists outside the logic of his creation makes me wonder if you are not his creation. Cos it was withing your logic to know this.

Again But something called god came out of nothing na?
It is better we don't make that assertion but simply admit we don't know! You are only trying hard to find quick and cheap answers to what you don't know. Relax!

if this is true, then you have been spending your time to explain what you don't know. Why not use the three words I DONT KNOW?

don't be shy to say I DONT KNOW!

MrScribe:


A God who depends on man's sacrifices and praise must have been created. A God who gets angry, gets jealous, shows regrets, must have human nature.

Also, if God created us distinct from himself, how come he seems dependent upon us? Because, I still don't understand why He has to create us just so we can praise him and know his word.

bkool7:


If you read the Bible with an open mind , you'll appreciate that the Bible might not be a science book, but its scientifically accurate .

Tell me of any
scientific evidence that contradicts the Bible.
Before scientists start visiting out of speace the Bible had told us of what is out of our world
The Bible covers all areas of science even before we have Meteorologist, Astrologist, Biologist...

That the knowledge of human science is not innovative/vast enough to comprehend biblical occurances doesnt invalidated them.
Science has we know it is evolving and time will tell.
But before that ,there are some scientists/people that have seen and known beyond what science can currently proof.
Science just has to catch up with the knowledge in the Bible

So, the Bible is a cedible reference for science any day.

bkool7:


If you read the Bible with an open mind , you'll appreciate that the Bible might not be a science book, but its scientifically accurate.

Tell me of any
scientific evidence that contradicts the Bible.

Before scientists start visiting out of speace the Bible had told us of what is out of our world
The Bible covers all areas of science even before we have Meteorologist, Astrologist, Biologist...

That the knowledge of human science is not innovative/vast enough to comprehend biblical occurances doesnt invalidated them.
Science has we know it is evolving and time will tell.
But before that ,there are some scientists/people that have seen and known beyond what science can currently proof.
Science just has to catch up with the knowledge in the Bible

So, the Bible is a cedible reference for science any day.

monchazfarms:


Time is as old as time itself.What humans were able to achieve was the ability to accurately measure time.

NPComplete:


LMAO. Scientifically accurate my ass. Even the bible contradicts the bible. The story of the resurrection of Jesus is filled with so many contradictions.

Chronicles and Kings couldn't agree on the numbers of soldiers or casualties in a war. And that is just the bible against itself.

Historical sources disagree with the bible in so many ways I don't even know where to begin

iPopAlomo:




Bros... you haven't answered the question... maybe because they didn't ask right... lemme ask you... right...

Out of the void and nothingness... how did a supreme being emerge...? except you're saying... God emerge from the void... then why was there a void... who bleeped with it and why...?!

Who created God is not an invalid question... in honest truth... it's beyond human comprehension... qed!!!

chemystery:

If you agree that nothing does not produce something, why assert that something called god came into existence out of nothing and from nowhere? It's either you are confusing yourself or you don't want to be sincere with yourself. You have to choose one between "nothing results to something" or "nothing cannot result to something" and apply it throughout your argument than cherry picking on what your choice applies to and what it doesn't. That is insincerity!
What is wrong in saying "I don't know" by the way?


Now you want to create a new argument on space.
Who defines space and what it is? Is it not humans?
Why then do you want to argue space isn't human construct?
Maybe it is a supernatural construct I guess. You can tell me more


You don't know and you don't know! So don't blame it on grammar.
You also want to blame it on your human instinct. All these while you have been explaining what you don't know as if you are an extraterrestrial being you didn't know you are human, right?

The time when time never existed(if such time ever existed) is on its own a time! There is no 'magomago' about it



Even god too began to exist. How did I know? Same way you knew the universe began to exist

I agree! Same way something called god cannot emerge from nothing!
Something that existed out of nothing abi?
Likely? You are not even sure of this something. Then on the other hand, that something might most likely be dependent as well.
But you want to use same thought to define something you claim existed outside the confines of the universe.
But this is not the case for you, for you can define things that existed outside the confines of time and space. You must be a genius!

Saying he exists outside the logic of his creation makes me wonder if you are not his creation. Cos it was withing your logic to know this.

Again But something called god came out of nothing na?
It is better we don't make that assertion but simply admit we don't know! You are only trying hard to find quick and cheap answers to what you don't know. Relax!

if this is true, then you have been spending your time to explain what you don't know. Why not use the three words I DONT KNOW?

don't be shy to say I DONT KNOW!

winner01:
God is not dependent on man. This is not true. However God is mindful of man.

oluamid:



The major problem with your entire surmise is that even before you started you had already concluded that there is God and your statements was only to support your view. For example, when describing what God is you took to the bible. The same bible that says only a fool says that there is no God without exactly trying to give incontrovertible evidence of God's existence beyond "faith".

You didn't exactly disprove the question of who created God either. If as you said something cannot come out from nothing, then it follows logically that God has a creator and must also have a beginning. You can't separate God from time since God has never at any point in history made himself known to the world except in religious texts.

A question, if at the beginning there was nothingness, at what point did God decide to change this state? And what term of reference does he have given there's no antecedents for creation?

My view is that the deepest secrets of the universe is unknownable with present human knowledge in all it forms whether spiritual or physical.

What if, hypothetically speaking, ET life exists and at a point in time earth comes in contact with other beings in the universe? And these ETs give us a fresh view of things? How will the bible or any other earthly religion be able to explain this?

Anyways, to each his own. We all continue to seek answers. Some of us are content to stick with what some of the religions offer. Some of us aren't.

MrScribe:


Why does he get angry and jealous? If he has no beginning, where did he get this nature from? If he created this nature, how come it appears that he can't control it?

winner01:
The question should be, where did we get this nature from?

Has man ever created something he can't control?

oluamid:



The major problem with your entire surmise is that even before you started you had already concluded that there is God and your statements was only to support your view. For example, when describing what God is you took to the bible. The same bible that says only a fool says that there is no God without exactly trying to give incontrovertible evidence of God's existence beyond "faith".

You didn't exactly disprove the question of who created God either. If as you said something cannot come out from nothing, then it follows logically that God has a creator and must also have a beginning. You can't separate God from time since God has never at any point in history made himself known to the world except in religious texts.

A question, if at the beginning there was nothingness, at what point did God decide to change this state? And what term of reference does he have given there's no antecedents for creation?

My view is that the deepest secrets of the universe is unknownable with present human knowledge in all it forms whether spiritual or physical.

What if, hypothetically speaking, ET life exists and at a point in time earth comes in contact with other beings in the universe? And these ETs give us a fresh view of things? How will the bible or any other earthly religion be able to explain this?

Anyways, to each his own. We all continue to seek answers. Some of us are content to stick with what some of the religions offer. Some of us aren't.

PStacks:



too many things dont add up..

so God is outside of time and eternal and immortal and made us inside of time and mortal..


but the bible also said we were made in the image and likeness of God.. if God is eternal and we were made like God, why are we not eternal? Why do we live but for a short time while God is there b4 we were born, he is there while we live and there when we die and there after we die..
if the bible was serious and not being deceptive when it refered to us as being Gods.. for ye are gods.. why then are we not timeless or eternal?

adepeter2027:

Abeg, tell me scientifique accurate events in the Bible.

Jesus, you want to know.?

Starting from genesis 1:1 to révélation ending.
The talking snake, angels holding wind, the flat earth, sun standing still, the Noah's ark

Should I continue?

Ogbeni, stop mixing religion and science. They are two parallel lines that can never meet

TheObservatory:



This is the best theory on proofing the existence of God so far. We cannot honestly say there is no intelligent creator behind the scene. Its simply foolhardy to say a car with complex parts just existed without a designer or manufacturer.

MrScribe:


You may answer the questions you raised.

winner01:
If something comes into being, it must have been prompted by something else. A book has an author. Music has a music artist. A party has a party-thrower! All things that begin, that have a start, have a cause to their beginning.


"If a creator God needs to have been made by a creator, that creator would also need a creator who needs a creator … like an infinite chain of toppling dominos, which is an impossibility." - Bertrand Russel (1872-1970)


Today’s atheists repeat the objection, including Richard Dawkins (The God Delusion) and Philip Adams, who said,

“The great argument for God was that there had to be a Creation, a beginning. … But my objection was simple. If God was the beginning who began God?”



So who created God? Many religious people, especially Christians including myself consider this question the ultimate blasphemy. In times of inquisition, 800 years ago in Europe, this question alone could easily have gotten one killed or at least sent to the torture chambers by the powers that be of the time – the Catholic Church.

Yet today, it seems to be a legitimate and a profound question. This question must be best answered to help grow the faith of genuine enquirers and tick the conscience of honest unbelievers.
Even if one doesn't believe in God or any kind of divine being, the question remains: Why does anything exist? Why not just nothingness?

These are the ultimate existential questions and it may concern every human on earth.



Everything we observe in nature has a beginning. Theists, more specifically Christians however often object by making the claim below:

"God is in a different category, God is different from all nature and humanity and everything that exists, in that he has always existed, independent from anything he created. God is not a dependent being, but self-sufficient, self-existent.
Psalms 90:2, 1 chronicles 29:11-12, John 4:24.

Christians admit that everything has a cause with just one exception, GOD. Christians submit this because this is exactly how the Bible describes God, and how God has revealed himself to be.


While I will not be using scriptures to make my point.
It is important to note that the Bible says, “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth” (Genesis 1:1). Here God created time itself. Only One who is outside of time, that is, timeless, or eternal, could do this.

Let's leave this for a while. Almost everyone agrees that the world has a beginning. Science seems to have proven that time and space had a beginning. This fact amongst others have made some change their opinion on reality.
https://www.nairaland.com/3314364/christian-family-atheism-jesus-christ

Three scientific evidences seems to prove that the universe has a beginning. They are briefly explained in the thread above.

1. The second law of thermodynamics
2. An expanding universe
3. The cosmic background radiation

So basically.
- The universe has not always existed (the universe has a beginning)
- Time and space began with the universe (Time and space began when the universe began)


Prior to the universe, there was nothing, NO TIME, no space, nothing at all.
This implication of this is that whatever brought the universe into existence is independent of the universe, independent of time (timeless or eternal) and independent of space.


This is a serious implication. It means that :
1. Either the universe came from nothing
2. or the universe came from something
3. or we don't know what brought forth the universe.


In reality. It is impossible for nothing to produce something. At least majority of people agree with this. And if it is impossible for nothing to give rise to something, then the existence of life should make no sense.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/5909250_img8162_jpega449fdec5674e7900a8abc4d01b71616

To me, life is even less complex than the universe. This truth (that nothing cannot produce something) is uncomfortable for those who propose that there is no Creator (of the universe).

This has led major scientists like Stephen hawkings, Lawrence krauss and others to theorize that something can come from nothing.

1. The M-Theory (which requires nothing something called gravity)
2. The multiverse theory (to which there exists no observable evidence)
3. Quantum vacuums (which infact has the properties of nothing something as Dr. Alexander Vilenkin points out
in this video.)


And maybe any other theory I don't know of. One thing is sure however, to validate any of the above theories, one must modify the definition of nothing.

Let's see the real definition of nothing.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/5909217_img8861_jpeg68ae4eccdc827e5cef36e4d5950fa853

Having said that. I'll go straight to my point.
Whatever was in existence prior to the universe, exists outside of time and space.

Whatever exists outside of time is timeless or eternal. The words "Timeless and eternal" seems to have a connection.

Lets see the definition of Timeless
www.nairaland.com/attachments/5909218_img8863_jpeg46c538e89180c8b5c8c7a3069cc08ddb


and eternal
www.nairaland.com/attachments/5909219_img8864_jpeg085949e1f8b8b358aefce3722518bc50

The major connection I see between these two words may be clear for everyone else to see.

"No beginning and no end".

This phenomenon is alien to humans. Majority of people can't seem to imagine an object with no beginning and no end (an object that was not created or an object that has been existing since forever).
It is natural though, afterall even our great planet will come to its end.
My point is, it is difficult for anyone to imagine something without a beginning or end.


The Bible describes God as:
1. ETERNAL in the following verses: Isaiah 40:28, Romans 16:26, 1 Timothy 1:17, Psalm 90:2
2. and SELF EXISTING: Exodus 3:14

The word YAHWEH itself is believed to be a form of the verb hayah, which signifies “to be,” ultimately meaning “the eternal One” or “self-existing One.”



So I have been able to make 2 points so far.
1. Timeless or eternal means no beginning and no end (UNCREATED OR SELF EXISTING)
2. The Bible describes God as timeless and eternal.



When atheists ask the question, "Who created God?". This question can be analyzed critically.

If something was created, it simply means it has a beginning. This negates the proposition of Christians as regards YAHWEH. Therefore such a question might either be born out of ignorance or dishonesty.
One can't ask who created something has no beginning and no end. Since the question itself proposes that this something has a beginning, It is an invalid question.


An eternal being or object has no beginning, no end. It is uncreated and timeless. It is self existent.
This is the what we mean when we say God is eternal.

I do not write to offend anyone's beliefs, but you can read this with an unbiased mind, I'm positive that you will come to an honest conclusion and admit that the question "Who created God" is an invalid question.


God bless you.

winner01:
lol. The answer is yes.

adepeter2027:

Who teach you this nonsense?