netotse:

those are the industrial nerve centres of nigeria now, geometric power(barth nnaji) is doing something in aba and from the gist i hear, things are moving fast there (he's prolly the only serious IPP sef). . .

i think you're looking at this in terms of nigeria as a whole, not in terms of the nigerian economy, the question to ask is, would it be cheaper than using generators? and would both the investor and the industries being supplied profit from the arrangement? while i dont know the numbers that were/are being crunched, i think it would be a worthwhile venture. . .besides, the transportation problem you're talking about is principally for the north, and that's if gas is the fuel, i dont think the type of stations to be built were specified.

The transportation issue is not a northern one alone, as it is a case of per-unit-length costs. Outside of fossil fuels and nuclear, I cannot think of any other power generation scheme that is not seasonal, irregular and/or situational. I dont think the government has granted approval to build nuclear stations.

The problem of the Nigerian economy is one of Nigeria as a whole, and the core issue is the cheapest way to deliver power to these cities/regions, while at the same time keeping an eye on future plans and scalability. I dont think isolated siting in the above locations is optimal, as opposed to having the fossil fuel units in the south and complementing them with the undeterministic sources in other regions. The latter solution requires a serviceable transmission network.

Business as usual
let the looting commence!

biina:

The transportation issue is not a northern one alone, as it is a case of per-unit-length costs. Outside of fossil fuels and nuclear, I cannot think of any other power generation scheme that is not seasonal, irregular and/or situational. I dont think the government has granted approval to build nuclear stations.

The problem of the Nigerian economy is one of Nigeria as a whole, and the core issue is the cheapest way to deliver power to these cities/regions, while at the same time keeping an eye on future plans and scalability. I dont think siting in the above locations is optimal, as opposed to having the fossil fuel units in the south and complementing them with the undeterministic sources in other regions. The latter solution requires a serviceable transmission network.

I agree that transportation will always be a big problem in the north since in any event you have to transport whatever fossil fuel (gas, coal, etc) from the south to the north. But there are several viable hydro sites in the north. They don’t have to run on fossil fuel for the north.

Ofcourse you don't have to look outside fossil fuel for the south and there are many types. Over 60% of world generators are coal powered. You can enter into purchase agreements to guarantee your supply. Gas fired generators would have been the cheapest for Nigeria due to abundant sources of natural gas. However the current problems in Niger delta will not encourage anybody to invest in gas pipeline business.

Avenir:

I agree that transportation will always be a big problem in the north since in any event you have to transport whatever fossil fuel (gas, coal, etc) from the south to the north. But there are several viable hydro sites in the north. They don’t have to run on fossil fuel for the north.

Ofcourse you don't have to look outside fossil fuel for the south and there are many types. Over 60% of world generators are coal powered. You can enter into purchase agreements to guarantee your supply. Gas fired generators would have been the cheapest for Nigeria due to abundant sources of natural gas. However the current problems in Niger delta will not encourage anybody to invest in gas pipeline business.

The core of the discussion is on if we need immediate investment into the transmission and distribution networks. The description given in the article seems to focus on localized power generation which I feel will be cost inefficient as ooposed to optimal siting of the power station (based on fuel/energy sources and transmission network). Having a city supplied by an hydro station (or any other underterministic source) off grid will expose such cities to either over budgeting at times of source abundance and/or under-supplied in times of dearth (like dry season for hydro stations).
With out using the  grid, it becomes chop alone die alone

Poor Sanusi. He seems to have political ambitions.
Hopefully his plans work for the countrys benefit.

biina:

The core of the discussion is on if we need immediate investment into the transmission and distribution networks. The description given in the article seems to focus on localized power generation which I feel will be cost inefficient as ooposed to optimal siting of the power station (based on fuel/energy sources and transmission network). Having a city supplied by an hydro station (or any other underterministic source) off grid will expose such cities to either over budgeting at times of source abundance and/or under-supplied in times of dearth (like dry season for hydro stations).
With out using the  grid, it becomes chop alone die alone

if that alone is considered, you're 100% right. . .if there was a way to achieve that without having to carry domestic and commercial load, i'd agree with you totally but as it stands today, it isn't possible and i think in this case, it's left to the investor that want to access the funds to make it work. . .

i'll be going to PHCN HQ sometime next week, i'll try and find out the cost per-unit-lenth for txn networks.

i dont agree with your overbudgeting thingy on hydro o. . .cos they have hydrologists at hydro stations and you monitor the rainfall of the area for close to 8yrs at least before siting a hydro station there, it's all about planning and economic dispatch really.

i'm guessing including the northen sites was mainly for political correctness and ish though

Beaf:

Poor Sanusi. He seems to have political ambitions.
Hopefully his plans work for the countrys benefit.

Lol . . . .

netotse:

if that alone is considered, you're 100% right. . .if there was a way to achieve that without having to carry domestic and commercial load, i'd agree with you totally but as it stands today, it isn't possible and i think in this case, it's left to the investor that want to access the funds to make it work. . .

I think since the distribution network more easily defined geographically, it shoudnt be too difficult to isolate the distribution network for the industrial areas/parks. Irrespective of power plant siting, the local distribution network for this target areas will have to be reviewed. The transmission network is what I am more concerned with. I feel We should upgrade the transmission network to ensure cost effectiveness in generation and delivery,while keeping in mind future plans. We should noyt build expensive ad hoc networks that would increase short term cost, and then be abandoned on the long run.

i'll be going to PHCN HQ sometime next week, i'll try and find out the cost per-unit-lenth for txn networks.

Hope you are not going just to ask four your share of the new CBN disbursements?  
Tommorow now, we go hear say u don get  GenCo  

i dont agree with your overbudgeting thingy on hydro o. . .cos they have hydrologists at hydro stations and you monitor the rainfall of the area for close to 8yrs at least before siting a hydro station there, it's all about planning and economic dispatch really.

If you capacitive is not excessive in the raining season, it will be short in the dry season. the seasonality of the water levels as opposed to tyhe more consistent power demands makes it that you cannot eat your cake and have it.

i'm guessing including the northen sites was mainly for political correctness and ish though

Such considerations are required to avoid unnecessary political tension. Surprisingly, PHC (already with AFAM) is the only south-south location. I would have expected something around delta/baylesa areas and something in the midwest also. Without a capable transmission network to spread the power around, you might indeed endup with the grumblings that easily follow such projects in Nigeria.

No matter how badly hated Sanusi bank reforms are perceived,I can bodly say without blinking an eye
that any man/woman that could take darkness away from Nigeria will be the best Nigerian of the century. and i will surport him as a hero with sense not soludo who did not know anything

seconded!

tunde1200:

No matter how badly hated Sanusi bank reforms are perceived,I can bodly say without blinking an eye
that any man/woman that could take darkness away from Nigeria will be the best Nigerian of the century. and i will surport him as a hero with sense not soludo who did not know anything

he's talking about improving the economy not taking darkness away from naija. . .

This is a very good idea

didnt see this post intime

biina:

I think since the distribution network more easily defined geographically, it shoudnt be too difficult to isolate the distribution network for the industrial areas/parks. Irrespective of power plant siting, the local distribution network for this target areas will have to be reviewed. The transmission network is what I am more concerned with. I feel We should upgrade the transmission network to ensure cost effectiveness in generation and delivery,while keeping in mind future plans. We should noyt build expensive ad hoc networks that would increase short term cost, and then be abandoned on the long run.

i agree with you there, i think that's what they'll do, make use of the existing distribution network, they'll just need to find a way to section it off, the new stations built need not be abandoned, the can always be added to the grid now. . .

Hope you are not going just to ask four your share of the new CBN disbursements?  
Tommorow now, we go hear say u don get  GenCo  

ah ah now. . .at least if i get one, when i'm like 60, i will come and start a foundation and say i dont know what to do with the money anymore.

If you capacitive is not excessive in the raining season, it will be short in the dry season. the seasonality of the water levels as opposed to tyhe more consistent power demands makes it that you cannot eat your cake and have it.

nope. . .the problem in naija is that the gas stations are forever messing up, thats why the hydro stations are usually over depleted. . .in a private setting, where there wont be an economist or lawyer minister to order you to bring units into service anyhow, you would be more likely to stick to best practices in managing your water level, how it's done is all fuzzy but i know there's a way they compare rainfall, expected rainfall and all that and use it to forecast how much they can generate with the water levels remaining safe!

Such considerations are required to avoid unnecessary political tension. Surprisingly, PHC (already with AFAM) is the only south-south location. I would have expected something around delta/baylesa areas and something in the midwest also. Without a capable transmission network to spread the power around, you might indeed endup with the grumblings that easily follow such projects in Nigeria.

where else can they site it? they need already established industries now. . .

netotse:

nope. . .the problem in naija is that the gas stations are forever messing up, thats why the hydro stations are usually over depleted. . .in a private setting, where there wont be an economist or lawyer minister to order you to bring units into service anyhow, you would be more likely to stick to best practices in managing your water level, how it's done is all fuzzy but i know there's a way they compare rainfall, expected rainfall and all that and use it to forecast how much they can generate with the water levels remaining safe!

The point was that your water levels will vary with the seasons (unless you have no concern for those downstream of the dam) which means you are capable of generating much more in the rainy season than in the dry season. In the case of an isolated region with sole dependence on hydro, (assuming a fairly constant load for the year), your capacity in the dry season should be able to meet your load, else you will be underfed, which in turn implies that your rainy season output will exceed your load i.e. wasted capacity. On a grid, the thermal stations would have helped pick up the slack or be able to transmit the excess to another region.

where else can they site it? they need already established industries now. . .

But is Afam not capable of meeting the demand in that region? why there may technical and practical reasons for siting in PHC, my point was that from a political stand point, the choice of sites (if coupled with isolation) may result in some regions/states genuinely feeling marginalized.

biina:

The point was that your water levels will vary with the seasons (unless you have no concern for those downstream of the dam) which means you are capable of generating much more in the rainy season than in the dry season. In the case of an isolated region with sole dependence on hydro, (assuming a fairly constant load for the year), your capacity in the dry season should be able to meet your load, else you will be underfed, which in turn implies that your rainy season output will exceed your load i.e. wasted capacity. On a grid, the thermal stations would have helped pick up the slack or be able to transmit the excess to another region.

oh. . .i finally get your point, dams are built with reservoirs, so the excess water is stored for use during the dry season, and the resevoir is re-filled during the rainy season, that's how it works. . .it's plausible, trust me. . .i just spent one year at a dam the danger is in over-generating, but a private company is less likely to do that. . .

But is Afam not capable of meeting the demand in that region? why there may technical and practical reasons for siting in PHC, my point was that from a political stand point, the choice of sites (if coupled with isolation) may result in some regions/states genuinely feeling marginalized.

but to do that will require toying with the load allocation from PHCN and trust me. . .PHCN will not listen to CBN on that issue, the next best thing will be to build. . .and since it'll be cheaper to site the station near the industries. . .voila. . .PH

if the states dont like it, they can go and jump. . .it'll be private companies now, you cant complain where a private company decides to spend it's money, like oyb said somewhere, part of the prob in naija is that when it's time to build stuff, er'one wants it to be built in their village, instead of considering more important(mostly economic though)factors

netotse:

oh. . .i finally get your point, dams are built with reservoirs, so the excess water is stored for use during the dry season, and the resevoir is re-filled during the rainy season, that's how it works. . .it's plausible, trust me. . .i just spent one year at a dam the danger is in over-generating, but a private company is less likely to do that. . .

I know about the reservoir and it only eliminates the short term variations and not the long term seasonal ones. You cannot hold the reservoir above the dam water  (unless you are willing to waste power in pumping the water above river level which essentially proves my point of waste) and since your water source level varies more consistently on the long term, you capacity would vary accordingly as long as you have finite dam height+ bed depth. It similar to the variable input rate, constant output buffer problem, no matter the size of your buffer, your output rate will always have to be between your maximum and minimum rate. You cannot maximize your output.

but to do that will require toying with the load allocation from PHCN and trust me. . .PHCN will not listen to CBN on that issue, the next best thing will be to build. . .and since it'll be cheaper to site the station near the industries. . .voila. . .PH

if the states dont like it, they can go and jump. . .it'll be private companies now, you cant complain where a private company decides to spend it's money, like oyb said somewhere, part of the prob in naija is that when it's time to build stuff, er'one wants it to be built in their village, instead of considering more important(mostly economic though)factors

I thot the power stations were sited by PHCN and CBN is just helping with the financing. Still the average Nigeria wont be so patient if he is not getting light when some other areas seem to have an abundance, particularly when the president is likely from the region of abundance. If Nigerians were objective, we wouldnt be is such a bad situation.

I hope our lovely and honorable politicians wont come and take this project away. As you know, if they see that they can not make any money from the project, they might come up with some excuse to delay it by saying its not suppose to be handled by the CBN president.

I pray this works, it's a good idea.

But Nigeria should learn from other fast developing and the developed nations, Nigeria should be proactive this time around, seek advise from people who have relevant knowlegde about on how to make this project work and be sincere.

The world is advancing drastically beyond comprehension, The resourses we depend upon today will one day may not be relevant again in the world stage, so we need to wake up and do something meaningful for this country, For instance , Nations advancing from 'OIL' to clean energy resources, solar energy, , we have all these in abundance but no proper relevant knowledge, resources, skill ,supervision ,insurance and maintainance to make it work,

It is well , (Amen)

SOLAR(energy)  PANEL  FOR THE NORTH wunderbar & wonderful .

The entire scheme look more credible because of Bank of Industry involvement. The bank is transparent and follow the rules in all their trabsactions,

I believe in this!

We have to start setting some ground roles
for forum members that post new reports -


IF U DONT PROVIDE A LINK OR SOURCE YOUR
POST WILL BE DELETED!!!

We are not here to mis-quote or mis-represent any
individual or Institutional body.

So much tory for we country

biina:

I know about the reservoir and it only eliminates the short term variations and not the long term seasonal ones. You cannot hold the reservoir above the dam water  (unless you are willing to waste power in pumping the water above river level which essentially proves my point of waste) and since your water source level varies more consistently on the long term, you capacity would vary accordingly as long as you have finite dam height+ bed depth. It similar to the variable input rate, constant output buffer problem, no matter the size of your buffer, your output rate will always have to be between your maximum and minimum rate. You cannot maximize your output.

o ok. . .i get your point. . .you're right, but we''ve got ourselves into this situation, even though CBN's solution is not the most efficient on the long run, taking the situation on ground into consideration, i still think the CBN's plan is a darn good option(in terms of the economy alone). . .have you ever visited geometric power's webpage? you should visit it sometime. . .it's here

I thot the power stations were sited by PHCN and CBN is just helping with the financing. Still the average Nigeria wont be so patient if he is not getting light when some other areas seem to have an abundance, particularly when the president is likely from the region of abundance. If Nigerians were objective, we wouldnt be is such a bad situation.

nigeria isn't that organised, the businesses will draw up their plans and stuff, PHCN will be ignored as much as possible(wot purpose are they serving? the execs will jst be trying to see what they can gain from the whole thing) it's the NERC that they'll deal majorly with.


for the people asking for a source, y'all coulda tried google now, but here's one sha. . .http://www.thisdayonline.com/nview.php?id=167704&printer_friendly=1

netotse:

nigeria isn't that organised, the businesses will draw up their plans and stuff, PHCN will be ignored as much as possible(wot purpose are they serving? the execs will jst be trying to see what they can gain from the whole thing) it's the NERC that they'll deal majorly with.

Its time for Jonathan to take the USA up on their offer to provide technical expertise to Nigeria and help us generate 10,000MW by 2011.

The US Government has already comitted $500,000 towards through the United States Agency for International Development (USAID) t  this end and are have kicked-off a two-week programme to highlight its activities in the country.

This is a great development:

[size=16pt]US technical assistance to aid Nigeria's 10,000mw target[/size]

Determined to help the country achieve its target of increasing electricity generation to 10,000 megawatts (mw), the United States government has offered assistance by kicking-off a two-week programme to highlight its activities in the country.
Lack of expertise and not just funding is often touted as a major gap in the nation's power sector; hence this support, valued at about half a million dollars through the United States Agency for International Development (USAID) -funded Nigerian Energy, and Climate Change Project (NECC), which seem to be just what the sector needs.

Signing a Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) with the Independent Power Producers Association of Nigeria (IPPAN) in Abuja, Robin Sanders, US Ambassador to Nigeria, noted that the move is expected to go a long way towards helping Nigeria overcome the major constraints to increase electricity generation, reduce the practice of gas flaring, and improve clean energy practices.

"I am pleased that the US government is able to collaborate with the government of Nigeria and with Independent Power Producers Association of Nigeria (IPPAN) to implement one of its top priorities; increasing electricity generation to 10,000mw by 2011. We are honoured to help Nigeria find a way to generate the electricity demanded by the Nigerian people, through the private sector," she maintained.

Though some may scoff at this, considering the Federal Government's failed promise to achieve 6,000mw by December 2009, others say this effort, indeed, has better promising success outlook, as the assistance engages the private sector directly with the technical assistance to be executed by NEXTANT, a subsidiary of BECHTEL, a company with great expertise and experience working in Iraq, among others.

In this vain, Barth Nnaji called on the government to work towards liberalisation and not commercialisation if the sector is to move forward.

"The sector should be transferred to the private sector because we can bring in appropriate management, more trained personnel, and money that would improve power plants, distribution networks. They should go straight to privatisation and not commercialization, which is just the same game in another guise where the government is still in charge," he noted.

"We strongly advocate that government should pursue reforms in the power sector with vigour to achieving the intended objective. We in IPPAN would like to match government's commitment to creating enabling structures in the sector with concrete actions."


Source: http://www.businessdayonline.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=8988:us-technical-assistance-to-aid-nigerias-10000mw-target&catid=68:power&Itemid=308

ndu_chucks:

Its time for Jonathan to take the USA up on their offer to provide technical expertise to Nigeria and help us generate 10,000MW by 2011.

The US Government has already comitted $500,000 towards through the United States Agency for International Development (USAID) t  this end and are have kicked-off a two-week programme to highlight its activities in the country.

This is a great development:

If Jonathan is as smart as we expected, he shd take them up on that offer fast, sign the deal and let them give him a end date for the project to happen, and make it happen within the few months that he has left in office, cos if he can do this, Nigeria will never forget him, and he will get everyone's vote in the future.

But US government is talking about green energy partnership,yet 50% of their power generation is from coal. Even china's energy is 70% from coal. But Nigeria has totally abandoned coal as a mean of generating power instead focused on gas flaring because we have abundance of it. I hope the CBN invest part of this fund in coal power plants.

hugooh42:

But US government is talking about green energy partnership,yet 50% of their power generation is from coal. Even china's energy is 70% from coal. But Nigeria has totally abandoned coal as a mean of generating power instead focused on gas flaring because we have abundance of it. I hope the CBN invest part of this fund in coal power plants.

Just hope we take advantage of this and step out of the darkness

Green energy does not come cheap,even nuclear energy.So we need to used all these energy sources to generate and even surpass the the 6000megawatt target.

hugooh42:

Green energy does not come cheap,even nuclear energy.So we need to used all these energy sources to generate and even surpass the the 6000megawatt target.

Ummmmmmm

In whatever form the generating form comes from, either coal, gas, solar,  all we need is way out of this darkness.

Fhemmmy:

If Jonathan is as smart as we expected, he shd take them up on that offer fast, sign the deal and let them give him a end date for the project to happen, and make it happen within the few months that he has left in office, cos if he can do this, Nigeria will never forget him, and he will get everyone's vote in the future.

seconded.

alanbolo:

In whatever form the generating form comes from, either coal, gas, solar,  all we need is way out of this darkness.
seconded.

Thanks jare, my brother