Aminu212:
proof please

AlBaqir:


# Plentiful.

www.nairaland.com/3394383/significance-ashura-part

Aminu212:
Am asking the op to provide prove why fasting on ashura day is a fraud.

AlBaqir:


# And since I share some of his beliefs, I welcome your challenge on his behalf. I believe all you need is proofs, right?

Rashduct4luv:


It's better you leave the Shiites alone with their ideology and dont let them contaminate you.

AlBaqir:


# Nasibi like you are the contamination of Islamic teachings.

Elbinawi:
The Historic Fraud of Ashura Fasting:

The Ashura fasting is a historic fraud to eclipse the brutal slaughter of Imam Hussein and his family. The murderous criminals created it using fabricated Hadiths.

They claimed Jews fast on Ashura. This is a monumental fraud as Jews never fasted on Ashura. Jews have their own calendar.

And if you check Sahih Buhari there are 3 contradicting reasons given from different Hadiths for the Ashura fasting.

The oppressive & tyrannical Ummayad Caliphs then used their power to fabricate Hadiths & imposed on majority of Muslims to distort Islam.

This was how the murderous killings of innocent civilians in the name of Islam found it way in and bloodthirsty Wahhabi savages embraced it.

#ElbinawiTweets

AlBaqir:


# And since I share some of his beliefs, I welcome your challenge on his behalf. I believe all you need is proofs, right?

Elbinawi:
The Historic Fraud of Ashura Fasting:

The Ashura fasting is a historic fraud to eclipse the brutal slaughter of Imam Hussein and his family. The murderous criminals created it using fabricated Hadiths.

They claimed Jews fast on Ashura. This is a monumental fraud as Jews never fasted on Ashura. Jews have their own calendar.

And if you check Sahih Buhari there are 3 contradicting reasons given from different Hadiths for the Ashura fasting.

The oppressive & tyrannical Ummayad Caliphs then used their power to fabricate Hadiths & imposed on majority of Muslims to distort Islam.

This was how the murderous killings of innocent civilians in the name of Islam found it way in and bloodthirsty Wahhabi savages embraced it.

#ElbinawiTweets

AlBaqir:


# Nasibi like you are the contamination of Islamic teachings.

Demmzy15:
Please what's the meaning of Nasibi? Seems anyone you don't like, you automatically term them Nasibi

Demmzy15:
Please what's the meaning of Nasibi? Seems anyone you don't like, you automatically term them Nasibi

Rashduct4luv:


Nawāsib‎; Singular Arabic: ناصبي‎, translit. Nāsibi‎) is an Arabic term meaning "those who have hatred". The term is often used in a pejorative sense by Shi'a against Wahabis, who they allege hate the Ahl Al-Bayt (the Household of the Islamic prophet Muhammad) or their followers.


Well, we Salafys (or Wahabis as they say) don't hate Shi'a. It's their Kufr we hate. (We have hatred for their kind of Kufr).

Rashduct4luv:


Well, we Salafys (or Wahabis as they say)

AlBaqir:






Shaykh Ibn al-‘Uthaymin writes:


The Nawasib are those who set up enmity against the Ahl al-Bayt, and hated them and cursed them. They are diametrically opposed to the Rawafid

Source: Ibn al-‘Uthaymīn, Sharh al-‘Aqīdah al-Wāsitiyyah, vol. 2, p. 283


So, anyone who hurts the Ahl al-Bayt by word or deed is a Nasibi. Moreover, anyone who hates, curses or sets up enmity against the Ahl al-Bayt is equally a Nasibi. It is appropriate to balance these revelations with these words of Shaykh Ibn Taymiyyah:


This was not the case for ‘Ali. This is because the MAJORITY of the Sahabah and Tabi’in HATED, CURSED and FOUGHT him.

Source: Abu al-‘Abbas Ahmad b. ‘Abd al-Halim b. Taymiyyah al-Harrani, Minhaj al-Sunnah al-Nabawiyyah
(Muasassat al-Qurtbah; 1st edition, 1406 H) [annotator: Dr. Muhammad Rashad Salim], vol. 7, p. 137-138

Rashduct4luv:
I don't know if i am to believe you or not! Shi'as are usually liars!

Rashduct4luv:

Ali, Husain or Hassan are mere humans who has died and to Allah is their account just like everyone else...

AlBaqir:


# You don't need to believe me. All you have to do is go and verify those references.

# "Shia are usually liars?" Unfortunately, Sahih Bukhari, Sahih Muslim and lots of your books of Ahadith are filled with Shia/Rafidha narrators. How are you gonna do your life?




@ as expected from a lover of Nawasib. Ahl al-Bayt are mere humans?

# Ali, (Fatima,) Hassan and Hussein (salamullahi alayhima) are Ahlulbayt whom:

1. Allah has purified from all evil

2. Nabi has appointed as par of the Quran (al-Thaqalayn), in which whomsoever adhere to it, will NEVER get astray.

3. Nabi said they will NEVER separate from the Quran

4. Fatima is dubbed "Leader of women of Jannah"

5. Hassan and Hussein are dubbed "Leader of the youth of paradise"

6. Ali is dubbed as "anfus" of Nabi.

# Subhan'allah, yet Nasibi sees them as "mere humans".

Mind you, I can't see Aa'ishah, the mother of the Believers in your list, why?

Rashduct4luv:


I think you have a good mastery of English Lang. ''Usually" does not mean "totally" and i'm not saying all Shi'a are ''entirely'' liars. And never compare those narrators to the Shiites of nowadays! You are going from worse to worst! You can see from the OP's post.

Rashduct4luv:


i was thinking you would say Aamin to the last supplication...
Mind you, I can't see Aa'ishah, the mother of the Believers in your list, why?

Demmzy15:

What we won't accept is sectioning or dividing the Ahl of the Prophet(Sallalahu Alayhi Wa Salam),

Empiree:
Yes, absolutely regardless of sect. Indeed, Shi'a do sectionalized them. Thats Shia's problem. I do not believe in the idea of divisions within ahle bayt.

Demmzy15:

in which one is abused and neglected while the other is followed(not even fully, because the line of Al Hassan has been cutoff). Islam is not a religion of hypocrisy, we need to be just in whatever we do in this life.

AlBaqir:


# What are the differences between "those narrators" to the Shiites of nowadays?

# "Those narrators" were concentrated REAL Rawafid faah. Do you want examples and their CONC Rafidh characters?




# The Ahl al-Bayt I was talking about are the special and selected Ahl al-Bayt in respect to Ayat at-Tahir, Hadith Thaqalain and Hadith Khalifatain; NOT general Ahl al-Bayt which by wedlock relation Aisha was part of.

Rashduct4luv:



Please, my problem is sieving through your post and first ascertaining its truthfulness.

Do you have any one from your examples who totally believes:

1. Ali, Hassan, Hussein, al Sajjaad, al Baaqir , al Saadiq, al Kaadim, Reza, al Taqiy, al Naqiy, al Zakiy and Hujjah al Qaa'im are infallible supermen who knows where & when they will die.

2. that Muhammad ibn al-Hasan al-‘Askari (Hujjah al Qaa'im) as the last Imam entered the tunnel of Samarra' in the mid 3rd century and is still alive till this day and is waiting for him.

3. in devoting many acts of worship to the 12 imams such as supplication, seeking help, offering sacrifices and tawaaf of graves

4. the Qur'an has been distorted with additions & subtractions,

5. in curseing the Sahabahs especially Abu Bakr & Umar.

6. one can get closer to Allah by cursing the Sahabahs and Aa'ishah.

7. that most Sahabahs became Kaafirs except about seven of them after the Prophet's death.

8. in Taqiya as is done by Shiites today and who believes in Raja'ah and attributes Badaa' to Allah.

9. in Raja'ah i.e that the Prophet, the 12 imams and other Sahabahs will come again before judgement day...

10. in attributing Badaa' to Allah.This implies attribution of ignorance to Allaah, may He be exalted.


Secondly, Abu Bakr and Umar and Uthman are of higher status that Ali, Husaein and Hassan.

I like some of your Imams apart from the Sahabahs among them then ‘Ali ibn al-Husayn, Muhammad ibn ‘Ali al-Baaqir, Ja’far ibn Muhammad al-Saadiq and Moosa ibn Ja’far who are among the trustworthy and reliable scholars.

You are free to pick my lines and ''Taqiya" it back to me.

AlBaqir:






"Or do they envy mankind for what Allah hath given them of his bounty? but We had already given the Ahl (family) of Ibrahim the Book and Wisdom, and conferred upon them a great kingdom." Quran 4:54

# That was the ayah used by hazrat Abdullah Ibn Abbas in response to khalifah Umar Ibn al-Khattab, when the latter showed opposition as you guys have shown.


FACTS

1. Nabi himself SELECTED Imam Ali, Bibi Fatima, Imam Hassan and Imam Hussein (peace be upon them all) for the ayah of Purification, ayah of Mubahala.


2. Nabi himself SELECTED his offspring (ITRAH) as the second of Thaqalain and Khalifatain left for mankind that IF they should cling to "it (Qur'an and itrah)", they will NEVER go astray

# So how was Shia "sectionalised" them against the others? Do you know more than Allah and His Prophet?

Qur'an says:

"But no, by your Lord, they will not believe until they make
you judge about what arises between them, then not they
find in themselves any discomfort about what you (have)
decided and submit (in full) submission."


QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

# What is the position of the wives of Nabi, were they part of his Ahlulbayt?

ANS: Wives of the Prophet were part of his GENERAL Ahl al-Bayt by virtue of their wedlock relationship with him. This is where other distant relatives also fit in. But, Nabi himself NEVER included them (the general members of Ahl al-Bayt) in respect to:

* Ayat of purification

* Ayat of Mubahala

* Hadith Thaqalain and Khalifatain.

# In ALL the aboves, he SELECTED and HANDPICKED Ali, Fatima, Hassan and Hussein, and even used a generic term "itrah (offspring)" to define them.


OPINIONS:

1. Zayd Ibn Arqam

Imam Muslim documents Hadith Thaqalain, and after Zayd related the Hadith, he was asked:

"...Aren't the wives (of the Holy Prophet) included amongst the members of his house hold? Thereupon he said: NO, by Allah, a woman lives with a man (as his wife) for a certain period; he then divorces her and she goes back to her parents and to her people; the members of his household include his ownself and his kith and kin (who are related to him by blood) and for him the acceptance of Zakat is prohibited."

Reference : Sahih Muslim 2408 d
In-book reference : Book 44, Hadith 58
USC-MSA web (English) reference : Book 31, Hadith 5923

https://sunnah.com/muslim/44/58



2. Imam al-A'lusi writes:

"And know that what is apparent from what is Sahīh from the word of the Prophet, peace be upon him “I will leave among you two Khalīfahs” and in another report “two weighty things: the Book of Allāh, a rope stretching between the heaven and the earth, and my ‘itrah, my Ahl al-Bayt. Both shall never separate until they meet me at the Lake-Font”, this establishes that the pure wives are NOT part of the Ahl al-Bayt who are one of the two weighty things. This is because the ‘itrah of a man, as documented in (the classical dictionary entitled) al-Sihah, are his offspring and nearest blood relations"

Source: Abu al-Fadl Mahmud al-Alusi, Ruh al-Ma’ani (Beirut: Dar Ihya al-Turath al-‘Arabi), vol. 22, p. 16


# So, Mr Empiree and Mr Demmzy15, if you have problem and averse to those "SECTIONALISM", then always remember the Qur'an 4:65. Stop "hating" the shia for complying and adhering to the "sectionalisation" of the Prophet. You are not the first to hate this, Nasibi scholars like Ibn Taymiyyah et al also showed their hatred, and revolt and TWISTED the meaning of those noble ahadith.


# QUESTIONS TO PONDER ON

#. Hadith Salat: This Mutawattir Hadith documented by Bukhari and Muslim. It is generally refer to as "Salat ibrahimiyah". Here Nabi linked his Ahl with Ahl of Nabi Ibrahim.

# How does Allah described the "Ahl Ibrahim" in the Qur'an in regard to IMAMAH (LEADERSHIP) and ISTAFA (PREFERENCE ABOVE MANKIND)?

* Upon all the large family members of Nabi Ibrahim, only his RIGHTEOUS OFFSPRING were SELECTED. Why do you want that of Nabi Muhammad to be different? Can wives and every tom, dick and harry of his relatives assumed the leadership position ni? Even Bibi Fatima was not part of Hadith Thaqalain and Khalifatain for being female, only that her offspring are the offspring of Nabi.


* When Allah SELECTED Adam, Nuh, Ahl Ibrahim and Ahl Imran over mankind, our Lord defines what He meant saying, "Dhuriyatan badua min badi...(Offspring one from the other)..."

# So, why do you want that of Nabi Muhammad to be different? Do you think Allah and His Messenger had done hypocrisy and injustice in their SELECTION?




# Unfortunately, Shia have a crystal clear Hadith which state that Nabi says:

* Ali, Hassan, Hussein and NINE individuals from the lineage of Hussein are the Aimmah selected for this Ummah.

# So, nobody cut off the lineage of Imam Hassan as regard to leadership. Even, it is/was not all the offspring of Hussein that merited the selection, only 9 out of thousands. However, ALL the lineage of Nabi via Imam Hassan and Imam Hussain are respected and known as "Sayyid" usually recognised with their black turban (the scholars among them). They all spread across all continents.

Rashduct4luv:


You must be a psychologist! You know how to convince people to dolaal with seemingly true but false proofs.

Allah, may He be exalted, says (interpretation of the meaning):

“O you who believe! Obey Allâh and obey the Messenger (Muhammad (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him)), and those of you (Muslims) who are in authority. (And) if you differ in anything amongst yourselves, refer it to Allâh and His Messenger (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him), if you believe in Allâh and in the Last Day. That is better and more suitable for final determination”

[an-Nisa’ 4:59].

Thus it is known to every Muslim that there is no one whose opinion is not subject to being accepted or rejected, except the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him).

The Sahaabah (may Allah be pleased with them) differed amongst themselves concerning many issues, yet the view of ‘Ali ibn Abi Taalib, al-‘Abbaas or ‘Uqayl ibn Abi Taalib (may Allah be pleased with them) was never taken as overruling others.

Please stop this!

AlBaqir:
[s]
"Or do they envy mankind for what Allah hath given them of his bounty? but We had already given the Ahl (family) of Ibrahim the Book and Wisdom, and conferred upon them a great kingdom." Quran 4:54

# That was the ayah used by hazrat Abdullah Ibn Abbas in response to khalifah Umar Ibn al-Khattab, when the latter showed opposition as you guys have shown.


FACTS

1. Nabi himself SELECTED Imam Ali, Bibi Fatima, Imam Hassan and Imam Hussein (peace be upon them all) for the ayah of Purification, ayah of Mubahala.


2. Nabi himself SELECTED his offspring (ITRAH) as the second of Thaqalain and Khalifatain left for mankind that IF they should cling to "it (Qur'an and itrah)", they will NEVER go astray

# So how was Shia "sectionalised" them against the others? Do you know more than Allah and His Prophet?

Qur'an says:

"But no, by your Lord, they will not believe until they make
you judge about what arises between them, then not they
find in themselves any discomfort about what you (have)
decided and submit (in full) submission."


QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

# What is the position of the wives of Nabi, were they part of his Ahlulbayt?

ANS: Wives of the Prophet were part of his GENERAL Ahl al-Bayt by virtue of their wedlock relationship with him. This is where other distant relatives also fit in. But, Nabi himself NEVER included them (the general members of Ahl al-Bayt) in respect to:

* Ayat of purification

* Ayat of Mubahala

* Hadith Thaqalain and Khalifatain.

# In ALL the aboves, he SELECTED and HANDPICKED Ali, Fatima, Hassan and Hussein, and even used a generic term "itrah (offspring)" to define them.


OPINIONS:

1. Zayd Ibn Arqam

Imam Muslim documents Hadith Thaqalain, and after Zayd related the Hadith, he was asked:

"...Aren't the wives (of the Holy Prophet) included amongst the members of his house hold? Thereupon he said: NO, by Allah, a woman lives with a man (as his wife) for a certain period; he then divorces her and she goes back to her parents and to her people; the members of his household include his ownself and his kith and kin (who are related to him by blood) and for him the acceptance of Zakat is prohibited."

Reference : Sahih Muslim 2408 d
In-book reference : Book 44, Hadith 58
USC-MSA web (English) reference : Book 31, Hadith 5923

https://sunnah.com/muslim/44/58



2. Imam al-A'lusi writes:

"And know that what is apparent from what is Sahīh from the word of the Prophet, peace be upon him “I will leave among you two Khalīfahs” and in another report “two weighty things: the Book of Allāh, a rope stretching between the heaven and the earth, and my ‘itrah, my Ahl al-Bayt. Both shall never separate until they meet me at the Lake-Font”, this establishes that the pure wives are NOT part of the Ahl al-Bayt who are one of the two weighty things. This is because the ‘itrah of a man, as documented in (the classical dictionary entitled) al-Sihah, are his offspring and nearest blood relations"

Source: Abu al-Fadl Mahmud al-Alusi, Ruh al-Ma’ani (Beirut: Dar Ihya al-Turath al-‘Arabi), vol. 22, p. 16


# So, Mr Empiree and Mr Demmzy15, if you have problem and averse to those "SECTIONALISM", then always remember the Qur'an 4:65. Stop "hating" the shia for complying and adhering to the "sectionalisation" of the Prophet. You are not the first to hate this, Nasibi scholars like Ibn Taymiyyah et al also showed their hatred, and revolt and TWISTED the meaning of those noble ahadith.


# QUESTIONS TO PONDER ON

#. Hadith Salat: This Mutawattir Hadith documented by Bukhari and Muslim. It is generally refer to as "Salat ibrahimiyah". Here Nabi linked his Ahl with Ahl of Nabi Ibrahim.

# How does Allah described the "Ahl Ibrahim" in the Qur'an in regard to IMAMAH (LEADERSHIP) and ISTAFA (PREFERENCE ABOVE MANKIND)?

* Upon all the large family members of Nabi Ibrahim, only his RIGHTEOUS OFFSPRING were SELECTED. Why do you want that of Nabi Muhammad to be different? Can wives and every tom, dick and harry of his relatives assumed the leadership position ni? Even Bibi Fatima was not part of Hadith Thaqalain and Khalifatain for being female, only that her offspring are the offspring of Nabi.


* When Allah SELECTED Adam, Nuh, Ahl Ibrahim and Ahl Imran over mankind, our Lord defines what He meant saying, "Dhuriyatan badua min badi...(Offspring one from the other)..."

# So, why do you want that of Nabi Muhammad to be different? Do you think Allah and His Messenger had done hypocrisy and injustice in their SELECTION?




# Unfortunately, Shia have a crystal clear Hadith which state that Nabi says:

* Ali, Hassan, Hussein and NINE individuals from the lineage of Hussein are the Aimmah selected for this Ummah.

# So, nobody cut off the lineage of Imam Hassan as regard to leadership. Even, it is/was not all the offspring of Hussein that merited the selection, only 9 out of thousands. However, ALL the lineage of Nabi via Imam Hassan and Imam Hussain are respected and known as "Sayyid" usually recognised with their black turban (the scholars among them). They all spread across all continents.
[/s]

Demmzy15:
You're too stubborn- ayat tatbir mubahala, etc was explained very clearly and categorically to you. You've failed to prove the Prophet's wives - may Allaah be pleased with them- aren't from his Ahl e beyt. The thread is still available for everyone to read in case you want to play a fast one https://www.nairaland.com/3933352/imam-ali-ibn-musa-al

AlBaqir:


# If it is me that is stubborn ni o, if you are the stubborn head ni o, leave it for people to judge in their heart and senses.

* We showed you Hadith of Umm Salama (and Aishah) that the verse of purification was revealed ALONE inside the room of Umm Salama, and that Ali, Fatima, Hassan and Hussein were mentioned in relation to this ayah YET you denied.

* Again, we have showed you Hadith of Mubahala which is even Mutawattir that ONLY Nabi, Ali, Fatima and Hassan and Hussein were SELECTED yet you denied.

* Zayd Ibn Arqam, who said "the wives of Nabi were NOT part of his Ahlulbayt" YET you denied

* Imam al-A'lusi also affirmed, YET you denied

So, what is left for between you and I on the issue? NOTHING.

AlBaqir:


# @underline, who are those "in authority" among the Muslims?

# Whenever there arise differences among the Muslims (starting from the sahabah till date), what is the instruction from the Prophet?

* NB: If you do not follow the Prophet, absolutely, you are a KAFIR.

# Nabi instructs while talking to his Sahabah:

"...whoever lives among you shall witness after me
several disagreements. Therefore, follow my Sunnah and
the sunnah of the khulafa, who are rashidun and
mahdiyun. Bite onto IT with your molar teeth. And beware
of innovated matters. For, verily, every innovation is a
bid’ah; and verily, every bid’ah is misguidance.”

* This is a clear instruction which reinforce the ayah 59 of surah Nisa (as quoted above). "Those in authority" as used in the ayah whom their "obedience" is directly link with that of the Prophet is exactly the "Khulafah" mentioned in the Hadith. For a fact, it is NOT every tom, dick and harry of sahabah we are instructed to follow.


* Nabi did NOT left the "Khulafah" he's (was) talking about undefined. He introduced them to us:

1. In the same hadith, he said, "...who are RASHIDUN, and MAHDIYUN". Meaning that ANY Khalifah who is not "Rashidun and Mahdiyun" is absolutely not from amongst "Khulafah, in Qur'an terminology, 'those in authority'", that Nabi is talking about.

This definition is a great acid test to know the "Khulafa" to be followed.

Shaykh Dr. al-Fawzan explains in His Sharah Aqeeda Wastia, page 165:

"The rashid is he who knows the truth and practises it. His opposite is the deviant, and that is he who knows the truth but does not practise it. His statement (mahdiyin) means those whom Allah guided to the truth"

2. Nabi also confirm and emphasised on this in Hadith Thaqalain (two weighty things) and Hadith Khalifatain (two Caliphs). He address primarily the entire Sahabah, and secondarily the entire Ummah:

"I have left over amongst you at-Thaqalain (in other version, he used the word Khalifatain) which IF you adhere to it you will NEVER go astray; the book of Allah and my ITRAH, Ahl al-Bayt. They will NEVER separate from each other till they meet me at the pool".

In short, the standard instructed to be followed after Nabi is summarised as follows:

Those " Khulafah "

1. (Their) Sunnah is the same, as it is the SAME with Nabi. In the Hadith he says using "singular pronoun", " Bite onto IT.."

2. Should be Rashidun and Mahdiyun

3. Will NEVER separate from the Qur'an

# So, any sahabah and anybody after them who do NOT follow these explicit instructions is KAFIR.

Rashduct4luv:


Stop derailing this bro. Those in Authority as used here or the Kulafa rashidun as refereed was not specifically referring to any particular Ahl al Bayt...what are you even saying here?

AlBaqir:


# So, if you see a CLEAR, SPECIFIC Hadith referring to Ahl al-Bayt as Khalifah after Nabi, will you agree?

# And for facts, I don't derail threads. I address issues as my opponents submit their challenges. You can read from the beginning and see how the thread "derailed" into multiple discussion.