AlBaqir:




# Clean tribal mark away? For what? It is never a sin on the person who carries it, the fact that s/he was NEVER aware or have anything to say when the parents puts it there. Cleaning it requires surgery where you remove or add flesh (plastic surgery).

# What you could have advice is staying away from the continuity of such practice or processes.

It's a sin if the carrier has the power to clean it and he didn't. And it's not a matter of plastic surgery, I know of someone who did it. Although he did it abroad.

tintingz:
I just tattooed my left butt.

Remember to tattoo your eyeballs too. Rubbish.

beatzone:
First, (And I have said this before), I think it is insulting to all Muslims, the fact that you are forced to swear kalimot before commenting on this section. If you think it is a good thing, think again. Somebody somewhere has systematically stereotyped you as an aggressive, impatient, violent, intolerant and irrational being.

Take your time to look at this, where ever else on this forum has anyone been forced to swear before sharing his opinion?

I am a Muslim, a practising one at that. BUT MUSLIMS NEED TO DO BETTER. You can't be living in this 21st century, and your mind and ideology is in 200BC .

Now back to this thread, and this is my personal opinion. I think our lives as Muslims revolve round two books majorly - Al Qur'an and Hadith

Al-qur'an -direct instructions from Allah :Do what he has decreed or be punished.
Hadith : The life and deeds of the prophet (no punishment)

You know.. to me.. ISLAM is the best religion in the world - because, you are told that ignorance is not an excuse. Which invariably means, if anyones tells you something about Islam or anything, be free to ask questions and know more until you are convinced.

QUESTIONS

1. How does tattoo change Allah's creation ? And I need a very logical explanation
2. What is the difference between temporary tattoo and laali ?
3.Can anyone explain this part of the Hadith quoted in this thread "Abd-Allaah ibn Mas’ood (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: “May Allaah curse the " ? Who is he? Is that prophet or someone who just hated tattoo?
4. Where is it stated that the " the prophet says...."?
5. Is there a quantic verse condemning this?


In conclusion, some of the provisions of the Hadith came into being based on realities at the time. There are some one definitely need to ponder on before you join in doing and there are some that are just straight forward. Islam gives us the gift of rational thought process. Let's not abandoned this in the name of righteousness.

My final statement is - Allah a'nlam !!!

I await you responses.

Ma salam

That won't answer you... they forget tribal mark is a form of body modification... same as ear piercing... nail, hair, beard trimming... all forms of body modification...

To be honest... I don't like telling people I'm a Muslim because of some archaic way of life...

iamgenius:


It's a sin if the carrier has the power to clean it and he didn't. And it's not a matter of plastic surgery, I know of someone who did it. Although he did it abroad.

Just imagine... just imagine this statement... and you go school ooo... chai... Jesus Christ!!!

iamgenius:
Remember to tattoo your eyeballs too. Rubbish.

What's your consign?

tintingz:
What's you consign?

Water ni.

iamgenius:


It's a sin if the carrier has the power to clean it and he didn't. And it's not a matter of plastic surgery, I know of someone who did it. Although he did it abroad.

# So, if it is a sin on those who wear it without their wish, you need to bring DIRECT evidence from the Quran and Hadith.

* So have you ask the person, the medical process it took for the clean up? Kindly share it with us please.

beatzone:
First, (And I have said this before), I think it is insulting to all Muslims, the fact that you are forced to swear kalimot before commenting on this section. If you think it is a good thing, think again. Somebody somewhere has systematically stereotyped you as an aggressive, impatient, violent, intolerant and irrational being.

Take your time to look at this, where ever else on this forum has anyone been forced to swear before sharing his opinion?

I am a Muslim, a practising one at that. BUT MUSLIMS NEED TO DO BETTER. You can't be living in this 21st century, and your mind and ideology is in 200BC .

Now back to this thread, and this is my personal opinion. I think our lives as Muslims revolve round two books majorly - Al Qur'an and Hadith

Al-qur'an -direct instructions from Allah :Do what he has decreed or be punished.
Hadith : The life and deeds of the prophet (no punishment)

You know.. to me.. ISLAM is the best religion in the world - because, you are told that ignorance is not an excuse. Which invariably means, if anyones tells you something about Islam or anything, be free to ask questions and know more until you are convinced.

QUESTIONS

1. How does tattoo change Allah's creation ? And I need a very logical explanation
2. What is the difference between temporary tattoo and laali ?
3.Can anyone explain this part of the Hadith quoted in this thread "Abd-Allaah ibn Mas’ood (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: “May Allaah curse the " ? Who is he? Is that prophet or someone who just hated tattoo?
4. Where is it stated that the " the prophet says...."?
5. Is there a quantic verse condemning this?


In conclusion, some of the provisions of the Hadith came into being based on realities at the time. There are some one definitely need to ponder on before you join in doing and there are some that are just straight forward. Islam gives us the gift of rational thought process. Let's not abandoned this in the name of righteousness.

My final statement is - Allah a'nlam !!!

I await you responses.

Ma salam

I am only going to focus on some points you raised which sound troubling.
1. With regards to the issue of taking an oath, it wasn't a decision that was made by the Muslims. And as a Muslim don't blame the owner of Nairaland. This happened many years back. The summary is that Muslims wanted a way to keep out many intruders whose sole aim was to insult anything Islam. To curtail the EXCESSES of these bigots, a decision was reached which was more of appeasing the offenders(bigots, islamphobics and the likes) and punishing the offended (Muslims). The Muslims complained of this injustice and this swearing of oath was put in place. Please note that MUSLIMS NEVER EXPLICITLY ASKED SE.UN TO PUT AN OATH. Initially, offenders were banned and Muslims had no problem with that Until they complained of the ban and this new mechanism was set up.
I believe it was a tough decision for the admin. So if there's any agitations for removal of the oat, it shouldn't be spearheaded by Muslims. And such a person must provide alternative to handle offenders.

2. You seem to be ignorant of the workings of Islam (no insult intended). I implore you to seek knowledge about your faith. Obedience of the Prophet Muhammad's (sallallahu alayhi WA sallam) commandment is compulsory and not optional. And at such, unrepentant defaulters are liable to punishment.
3. you need to know that Al-quran isn't the only source of shariah.

iPopAlomo:




That won't answer you... they forget tribal mark is a form of body modification... same as ear piercing... nail, hair, beard trimming... all forms of body modification...

To be honest... I don't like telling people I'm a Muslim because of some archaic way of life...

I can only tell you what Allah said in suratul baqorah verse 208
يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا ادْخُلُوا فِي السِّلْمِ كَافَّةً وَلَا تَتَّبِعُوا خُطُوَاتِ الشَّيْطَانِ ۚ إِنَّهُ لَكُمْ عَدُوٌّ مُبِينٌ

(2:208) O you who believe! Enter perfectly in Islam (by obeying all the rules and regulations of the Islamic religion) and follow not the footsteps of Shaitan (Satan). Verily! He is to you a plain enemy.


Allah has already warned you. If you continue to listen to what your enemies think of you, how can you excel?

iPopAlomo:




That won't answer you... they forget tribal mark is a form of body modification... same as ear piercing... nail, hair, beard trimming... all forms of body modification...

To be honest... I don't like telling people I'm a Muslim because of some archaic way of life...

Brother, if truly you are a Muslim, you are on the verge of becoming a Kaafir. I didn't say you are a Kaafir, but you are moving closer to being one.

Your last statement is one of the words that take one out of the fold of Islam. Please, know that the Prophet doesn't speak of his own desire he speaks as it's being revealed to him.

Allah knows what is best for us, and He knows what will happen tomorrow. None of the rulings of the Quran and Sunnah can become archaic. Quran and Sunnah will always be appropriate and best to use NOW and FOREVER TILL THE DAY OF JUDGEMENT.

If you say tribal mark is not haraam, then you are saying prophet Muhammad(peace be upon him) is a liar and Allah's ruling is archaic in some parts of His rulings and Laws.

May Allah save us from doing and saying what may take us out of Islam, Aamin.

iPopAlomo:



Just imagine... just imagine this statement... and you go school ooo... chai... Jesus Christ!!!

What's wrong with what I said? Will going to school make one intelligent?

iamgenius:

Brother, if truly you are a Muslim, you are on the verge of becoming a Kaafir. I didn't say you are a Kaafir, but you are moving closer to being one.

Your last statement is one of the words that take one out of the fold of Islam. Please, know that the Prophet doesn't speak of his own desire he speaks as it's being revealed to him.

Allah knows what is best for us, and He knows what will happen tomorrow. None of the rulings of the Quran and Sunnah can become archaic. Quran and Sunnah will always be appropriate and best to use NOW and FOREVER TILL THE DAY OF JUDGEMENT.

If you say tribal mark is not haraam, then you are saying prophet Muhammad(peace be upon him) is a liar and Allah's ruling is archaic in some parts of His rulings and Laws.

May Allah save us from doing and saying what may take us out of Islam, Aamin.

Quran verse proposing body modification as haram...

iamgenius:

Brother, if truly you are a Muslim, you are on the verge of becoming a Kaafir. I didn't say you are a Kaafir, but you are moving closer to being one.

Your last statement is one of the words that take one out of the fold of Islam. Please, know that the Prophet doesn't speak of his own desire he speaks as it's being revealed to him.

Allah knows what is best for us, and He knows what will happen tomorrow. None of the rulings of the Quran and Sunnah can become archaic. Quran and Sunnah will always be appropriate and best to use NOW and FOREVER TILL THE DAY OF JUDGEMENT.

If you say tribal mark is not haraam, then you are saying prophet Muhammad(peace be upon him) is a liar and Allah's ruling is archaic in some parts of His rulings and Laws.

May Allah save us from doing and saying what may take us out of Islam, Aamin.

Allah's laws or Sharia laws are archaic whether you try to sugarcoat it or not, show me laws from the Quran that's mordern.

udatso:

I am only going to focus on some points you raised which sound troubling.
1. With regards to the issue of taking an oath, it wasn't a decision that was made by the Muslims. And as a Muslim don't blame the owner of Nairaland. This happened many years back. The summary is that Muslims wanted a way to keep out many intruders whose sole aim was to insult anything Islam. To curtail the EXCESSES of these bigots, a decision was reached which was more of appeasing the offenders(bigots, islamphobics and the likes) and punishing the offended (Muslims). The Muslims complained of this injustice and this swearing of oath was put in place. Please note that MUSLIMS NEVER EXPLICITLY ASKED SE.UN TO PUT AN OATH. Initially, offenders were banned and Muslims had no problem with that Until they complained of the ban and this new mechanism was set up.
I believe it was a tough decision for the admin. So if there's any agitations for removal of the oat, it shouldn't be spearheaded by Muslims. And such a person must provide alternative to handle offenders.

2. You seem to be ignorant of the workings of Islam (no insult intended). I implore you to seek knowledge about your faith. Obedience of the Prophet Muhammad's (sallallahu alayhi WA sallam) commandment is compulsory and not optional. And at such, unrepentant defaulters are liable to punishment.
3. you need to know that Al-quran isn't the only source of shariah.

Thanks for the response. It is really appreciated. And no offense taken whatsoever. But, don't you think you twisted my words when you used the term "Prophet's commandment" Instead hadith as I rightly stated?


Let me ask a few questions, if you do not mind.

1. Is the hadith a book of law or a book about the way of life of the prophet?
2. What is a commandment ?
3. Where is it expressly stated that one will be punished if one doesn't follow the hadith ?
4. If I don't cut my pants or I alway shave my beard, are these infringement on the 'commendment', and so, I will be punished?
5. Someone should please answer the first set of questions I raised in my first response?


To wrap this up, the excuse for the creation of oath is quite flimsy IMO. Every forum has rules. You flout it, you get punished. People are even banned for sharing a 'link' on this site. Banning is not new on here. Scores of people get banned daily and no oath set up to stop banning.

And this, right here, is the problem. Muslims should stop feeling like everyone is against them. Have you thought about what opening up this section to the public can do to people's perception about islam? No need to glorify the haters and forget about the dawah

As far as I know, all these is just about playing the "victim card". Let's begin to show those who speak of Al slam that we can tolerate whatever they throw at us. And YES, we can EXCLUSIVE move the motion of opening up this section. If we indeed are the followers of the prophet, this shouldn't be a problem.

Allahu a'nlam

beatzone:


Thanks for the response. It is really appreciated. And no offense taken whatsoever. But, don't you think you twisted my words when you used the term "Prophet's commandment" Instead hadith as I rightly stated?

i am sorry but I didn't twist your word. You made a bold statement that passes a message that prophets way of life are just to be emulated with no punishment attached. What you failed to understand is that some of these aren't only his Way of lives but also direct commandment from him to do such.

Let me ask a few questions, if you do not mind.

1. Is the hadith a book of law or a book about the way of life of the prophet?

It's both

2. What is a commandment ?

a rule that must be obeyed

3. Where is it expressly stated that one will be punished if one doesn't follow the hadith ?

We are told to obey the messenger of Allah (sallallahu alayhi WA sallam). There are many references to this
(5: 92). (4: 59).(24: 54). (4:13) (33:71) (4:64)
And the source of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) commandment is hadith.

4. If I don't cut my pants or I alway shave my beard, are these infringement on the 'commendment', and so, I will be punished?

That's for Allah to decide. Clearly if we have an authentic hadith that reports rasulullah (saw) giving a commandment, defying such order clearly is disobedience of Allah. As for the punishment, Allah's mercy is unparalled. So I can't say.

5. Someone should please answer the first set of questions I raised in my first response?

I equally expect someone to. I only approached certain points that are fundamental to one's imam whether it's regards to tattoo or not.

To wrap this up, the excuse for the creation of oath is quite flimsy IMO. Every forum has rules. You flout it, you get punished. People are even banned for sharing a 'link' on this site. Banning is not new on here. Scores of people get banned daily and no oath set up to stop banning.

Like I said, many Muslims supported banning as a just and fit punishment for the offenders. Unfortunately the constant complaints about the then islam for Muslims mod maclatunji) by the defaulters lead to the new decision.

And this, right here, is the problem. Muslims should stop feeling like everyone is against them. Have you thought about what opening up this section to the public can do to people's perception about islam? No need to glorify the haters and forget about the dawah

if I may ask sir, how long have you being on this forum?
based on my experience here, opening it to them without proper ways to tackle excesses won't do anyone any good.

As far as I know, all these is just about playing the "victim card". Let's begin to show those who speak of Al slam that we can tolerate whatever they throw at us. And YES, we can EXCLUSIVE move the motion of opening up this section. If we indeed are the followers of the prophet, this shouldn't be a problem.

Allahu a'nlam

if you have someone whose sole aim is to constantly provoke you, then You are left with two options :find a way to live in harmony with such a person by establishing some protocols or avoid the person.

In my opinion, I would be a foolish person to WILLINGLY open doors to unrepentant bigot to throw stones at me. However if such a person repents and begs to try to be better and asks kindly, I would reconsider.
I respect your opinion though, just don't see how it favours anyone from both sides

Subhannallah! See comments! Please stop toying with kufr. How can a Muslim be afraid of calling himself Muslim? How will he be able to call Kuffar Kuffar?

Well tintingz, you will never change, the rate at which your kufr grow is directly proportional to how much you feed your kufr self. Seems you have been feeding it pretty well.

how do we define modernity?


Whoever hates what Prophet Muhammad (salallahu alayhi wa salam) brings is simply a Kaafir!

Whoever jokes with (any part of) Islam is simply a kaafir!


How can you say you believe in the Qur'an and not the Hadiths?

The number of Prayers per day was not mentioned in the Qur'an!

The number of Ramadan days too.

How many rakahs per prayer.

Description of how to pray.

Prayer times.

All are explained in details in the Hadiths.

Allah knows best.

May Allah grant us understanding of the deen.

Rashduct4luv:


Well tintingz, you will never change, the rate at which your kufr grow is directly proportional to how much you feed your kufr self. Seems you have been feeding it pretty well.

how do we define modernity?


Whoever hates what Prophet Muhammad (salallahu alayhi wa salam) brings is simply a Kaafir!

I will always be a kafir when an ideology promote killing of apostates, beating of wives, stoning adulterers, killing gays, forced child marriage, killing unbelievers, I will be a kafir to an ideology that degrade the women folks, no women right, no freedom of speech.

So yes I will never change when it comes to this archaic practice and mentality.

tintingz:
I will always be a kafir when an ideology promote killing of apostates, beating of wives, stoning adulterers, killing gays, forced child marriage, killing unbelievers, I will be a kafir to an ideology that degrade the women folks, no women right, no freedom of speech.

So yes I will never change when it comes to this archaic practice and mentality.

Well, lakum deenukum waliya deen!

Rashduct4luv:



Well, lakum deenukum waliya deen!

Yeah go and say that to them in Saudi Arabia.

Rashduct4luv:
Subhannallah! See comments! Please stop toying with kufr. How can a Muslim be afraid of calling himself Muslim? How will he be able to call Kuffar Kuffar?

Well tintingz, you will never change, the rate at which your kufr grow is directly proportional to how much you feed your kufr self. Seems you have been feeding it pretty well.

how do we define modernity?


Whoever hates what Prophet Muhammad (salallahu alayhi wa salam) brings is simply a Kaafir!

Whoever jokes with (any part of) Islam is simply a kaafir!


How can you say you believe in the Qur'an and not the Hadiths?

The number of Prayers per day was not mentioned in the Qur'an!

The number of Ramadan days too.

How many rakahs per prayer.

Description of how to pray.

Prayer times.

All are explained in details in the Hadiths.

Allah knows best.

May Allah grant us understanding of the deen.

Don't be a pussy and mention who this sub is meant for...

and yes... I'm ashamed of some Islamic practices... I believe in the Quran and I don't believe the hadith... you all have an issue with the bible because it wasn't written by God but an account of eye witnesses... same as the hadith... with everything translated to suit a particular scholar...

For your sake... with your high morality in Islam... make sure you make janah... or else... I would do make fun of you... that alone will satisfy me...

iPopAlomo:




Don't be a pussy and mention who this sub is meant for...

and yes... I'm ashamed of some Islamic practices... I believe in the Quran and I don't believe the hadith... you all have an issue with the bible because it wasn't written by God but an account of eye witnesses... same as the hadith... with everything translated to suit a particular scholar...

For your sake... with your high morality in Islam... make sure you make janah... or else... I would do make fun of you... that alone will satisfy me...

I don't think you believe in the Qur'an too.

Alcohol is forbidden in Islam, yet your moniker is ipopAlomo

Rashduct4luv:

I don't think you believe in the Qur'an too.
Alcohol is forbidden in Islam, yet your moniker is ipop.Alomo

Alcohol is forbidden outright in Islam... or forbidden to drink...

iPopAlomo:




Alcohol is forbidden outright in Islam... or forbidden to drink...

It is forbidden to drink, but when u pop Alomo will u pour it away?

When Alcohol was banned the streets were flowing with alcohol...

iPopAlomo

Rashduct4luv:


It is forbidden to drink, but when u pop Alomo will u pour it away?

When Alcohol was banned the streets were flowing with alcohol...

iPopAlomo

And do you know Alcohol is used to numb pain... medically... even when drunk...

iPopAlomo:




And do you know Alcohol is used to numb pain... medically... even when drunk...

is it Alomo you are Popping?

Rashduct4luv:

is it Alomo you are Popping?

Alcohol is alcohol brah...

iPopAlomo:



Alcohol is alcohol brah...

Well....My last post to you.

It is haraam to drink alcohol or to sell it, carry it or help with it in any way whatsoever, because Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“O you who believe! Intoxicants (all kinds of alcoholic drinks), and gambling, and Al‑Ansaab (stone altars for sacrifices to idols etc), and Al‑Azlaam (arrows for seeking luck or decision) are an abomination of Shaytaan’s (Satan’s) handiwork. So avoid (strictly all) that (abomination) in order that you may be successful”

[al-Maa’idah 5:90]

Abu Dawood (3674) and Ibn Maajah (3380) narrated that Ibn ‘Umar said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Allaah has cursed alcohol, the one who drinks it, the one who pours it, the one who sells it, the one who buys it, the one who squeezes (the grapes etc), the one for whom it is squeezed, the one who carries it and the one to whom it is carried.” Classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh Abi Dawood.

Al-Tirmidhi (1295) narrated that Anas ibn Maalik said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) cursed ten with regard to alcohol: the one who squeezes (the grapes etc), the one for whom it is squeezed, the one who drinks it, the one who carries it, the one to whom it is carried, the one who pours it, the one who sells it and consumes its price, the one who buys it and the one for whom it is bought.”

May Allah guide you and us all.

Rashduct4luv:
Well....My last post to you.

It is haraam to drink alcohol or to sell it, carry it or help with it in any way whatsoever, because Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“O you who believe! Intoxicants (all kinds of alcoholic drinks), and gambling, and Al‑Ansaab (stone altars for sacrifices to idols etc), and Al‑Azlaam (arrows for seeking luck or decision) are an abomination of Shaytaan’s (Satan’s) handiwork. So avoid (strictly all) that (abomination) in order that you may be successful”

[al-Maa’idah 5:90]

Abu Dawood (3674) and Ibn Maajah (3380) narrated that Ibn ‘Umar said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Allaah has cursed alcohol, the one who drinks it, the one who pours it, the one who sells it, the one who buys it, the one who squeezes (the grapes etc), the one for whom it is squeezed, the one who carries it and the one to whom it is carried.” Classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh Abi Dawood.

Al-Tirmidhi (1295) narrated that Anas ibn Maalik said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) cursed ten with regard to alcohol: the one who squeezes (the grapes etc), the one for whom it is squeezed, the one who drinks it, the one who carries it, the one to whom it is carried, the one who pours it, the one who sells it and consumes its price, the one who buys it and the one for whom it is bought.”

May Allah guide you and us all.

Bruv... in order to be successful... it's not forbidden uncle... go and sit down...

beatzone I have to admit you were partly right about the Islam/Christan stuff. I had to experience it to be convinced. It's been unfair to non Muslims. I believe the rules need to be revised

I'm a Muslim revet with 16 tattoos....does that count as Haram?...

Plus, planning on getting more too coz I think the heart is what matters to God and not this fleeting flesh....

Salaam...