Henry120:


Boy, this aren't an opinion. They are hard facts!

No

This is literally his opinion.

The opinion of a man who was subsequently destroyed on the stand

Henry120:


He posted no lies. Stop been emotional!

All his opinion and lies.

It is difficult to remain calm when someone is constantly posting absolute nonsense for no reason whatsoever.

Henry120:


I know you aren't smart, but come on, the facts are very clear. That the SAN got sub-standard Ships with obsolete combat suite is not even up for a debate. It is as clear..... very crystal


[b]244. In the DoD's letter dated 6 May 1999 to Messrs German Frigate Consortium and African Defence Systems (PTY) Ltd entitled Request for Best and Final Commercial Offer: SAN Patrol Corvette -Vessel System provided an Appendix B to the letter entitled Combat Suite Baseline for Vessel Best and Final Offer. This stipulated as follows :


"A hardwired solution is not acceptable to the SAN. Architecture to be as proposed on 07th April 1999."
[DT1-0426.pdf]


245. In the case of the Detexis system, the non-functioning of a particular sub-system's system interface unit will prevent other critical systems from operating (for example, if the tracker system's system interface unit fails, the gun system fails since the tracker system can no longer communicate with the gun system in order to provide it with tracking data).


246. Such a failure of (for example) a system interface unit constitutes a single point of failure within the combat suite which violates one of its fundamental design principles.


247. By contrast, in a "distributed" architecture (such as CCII Systems's IMS) all sub-systems communicate directly with one another and thus the need for system interface units and for communication via the CMS is eliminated.


248. Furthermore, the combat suite based on the Detexis system is dependent on a pair of fore and aft switches with processing intelligence and which link the CMS with all fore and aft systems respectively. If the fore or aft pair of switches fails, all fore or aft systems (as the case may be) would fail.
249. By contrast, in a "distributed"


architecture (such as CCII Systems's IMS) there are no switches. There are pairs of concentrators linking the FDDI databus to clusters of sub-systems. The concentrators do not have and do not require, processing intelligence. If a pair of concentrators fails, only the cluster of sub-systems served by that pair will fail.[/b]

Source?


You'll start crying when I provide you with real facts.

agaugust:


[size=16pt]Stop editing my comments to change my contents, write your own argument and don't edit what I wrote, stop inserting your own opinions and comments under my own name/moniker.

Write your own garbage and attach your own name to it
. [/size]

1. A-Darter was ordered by Brazil NOT SANDF....same way Mokopa was ordered by Algeria NOT SANDF

Conclusion : No proof of payment to DENEL, so no sales no purchases confirmed

2. Badger IFV, only 5 units out of 234 planned, only 5 units produced in 15 years grin grin

Conclusion : No money to build more

3. Skyshield under construction till 2017.

Conclusion : snail slow speed, may be on till 2020

4. Heavy Torpedo, only on paper Budget

Conclusion: no product name, no supplier name, no deal, no money

5. BVRAAM merlin missile.

Conclusion : Project with no date for completion. Brazil NOT signed to be involved. Missile NON-EXISTENT.

6. OPV In tender

Conclusion : Project Biro exists only on paper for almost 18 years, and will always be at paper stage. NO MONEY !

SAAF procurement dreams are a bunch of jokes !
.

His crying!! But I won't stop force feeding him humble pie.


1. A-Darter: Ordered.

A. Denel Dynamics has received a production contract for the A-Darter fifth-generation air-to-air missile from Armscor, which covers the production of missiles for the South African Air Force over the next five years.

Source: http://itweb.co.za/mobilesite/defenceweb/home/item_id-38741/



2. Badger IFV: Ordered

A. DLS was finally awarded a contract for 238 Badger IFVs and variants for the South African National Defence Force (SANDF).


Source: http://www.janes.com/article/43336/badger-nears-production-aad142

3. Skyshield upgrades: Completion 2017.

A. Rheinmetall Air Defence of Switzerland is upgrading part of the South African National Defence Force’s (SANDF) twin 35mm Oerlikon GDF-005 towed anti-aircraft guns (AAG) to the latest GDF-007 standard.

Conclusion: If complexion is extended it will due to the supply company not end user and money.


Source: http://www.janes.com/article/43318/south-africa-to-get-upgraded-gdf-weapons-aad142

4. DM2A4 heavyweight torpedo!

5. What is "merlin"? That's because it is still in a technology demonstration phase.

Conclusion: After A-Darter completion, Brazil will join!

6. OPVs: Submission will close soon, then will know the contenders.

Patchesagain:


All his opinion and lies.

It is difficult to remain calm when someone is constantly posting absolute nonsense for no reason whatsoever.

Buhahhahahahahaha....... !!!! He's a pain in your flesh, LMFAO!!!


@Agaugust, you see the emotional hurt you are causing our South-African brothers, "i'm not happy with you".... LOL!

Now, apologise to Patrick.





* that moment the South-Africans wish Agaugust was South-African.

MikeCZAR:
Source?


You'll start crying when I provide you with real facts.

You have no shame!!

Go cry to your incompetent government.

agaugust:


There is no 120 km range in your source, it says NOTHING like that.

Have you ever seen anybody on this forum talk about a ship with gun range of 120 km ? Even G-6 artillery that has world record is only 73 km range.

You are a white-man with a Zulu brain
.

Go read the fvcking source r3tard its there

Patchesagain:


No

This is literally his opinion.

The opinion of a man who was subsequently destroyed on the stand

I don't know how to say this without hurting your feelings

I really, really do not want you to go into another emotional tantrum.


Mr young provided indisputable facts.

lezz:
where's your sense? Nigerians are Africans and have been one of the countries championing pan African liberation and freedom since the 60's.

So Africa oneness and liberation has been on the psyche of the average Nigerian. White south Africans on the other hand never saw themselves as Africans and do not participate in a progressive role in Africa except to disrupt progress on the continent.

WHITE SOUTH AFRICANS DO NOT ENVY OR ARE OVER EXCITED ABOUT NIGERIA, ONLY ZULUS ARE.

What I know of white trash.

Go read the post i qouted then you'll understand why I said African forum.

But you do have one thing very right! I don't envy Nigeria in the slightest.

lezz:
he just hit you with the truth.

Nope he just hit himself with some more bullshit.

agaugust:


There is no 120 km range in your source, it says NOTHING like that.

Have you ever seen anybody on this forum talk about a ship with gun range of 120 km ? Even G-6 artillery that has world record is only 73 km range.

You are a white-man with a Zulu brain
.

Look at this mor.on.

Comparing naval guns with howitzers!

This is the same emb.ecile who accused people of having inferior naval warfare knowledge.

Range: 120km+

Henry120:


You have no shame!!

Go cry to your incompetent government.

Beautiful retreat!

MikeCZAR:




Beautiful retreat!

Are you drunk?

Post it!

jln115:

Nope he just hit himself with some more bullshit.

you ran short of ideas to disprove it.

Henry120:


Buhahhahahahahaha....... !!!! He's a pain in your flesh, LMFAO!!!


@Agaugust, you see the emotional hurt you are causing our South-African brothers, "i'm not happy with you".... LOL!

Now, apologise to Patrick.





* that moment the South-Africans wish Agaugust was South-African.

see

MikeCZAR:

His crying!! But I won't stop force feeding him humble pie.
1. A-Darter: Ordered.
A. Denel Dynamics has received a production contract for the A-Darter fifth-generation air-to-air missile from Armscor, which covers the production of missiles for the South African Air Force over the next five years.
Source: http://itweb.co.za/mobilesite/defenceweb/home/item_id-38741/
2. Badger IFV: Ordered
A. DLS was finally awarded a contract for 238 Badger IFVs and variants for the South African National Defence Force (SANDF).
Source: http://www.janes.com/article/43336/badger-nears-production-aad142
3. Skyshield upgrades: Completion 2017.
A. Rheinmetall Air Defence of Switzerland is upgrading part of the South African National Defence Force’s (SANDF) twin 35mm Oerlikon GDF-005 towed anti-aircraft guns (AAG) to the latest GDF-007 standard.
Conclusion: If complexion is extended it will due to the supply company not end user and money.
Source: http://www.janes.com/article/43318/south-africa-to-get-upgraded-gdf-weapons-aad142
4. DM2A4 heavyweight torpedo!
5. What is "merlin"? That's because it is still in a technology demonstration phase.
Conclusion: After A-Darter completion, Brazil will join!
6. OPVs: Submission will close soon, then will know the contenders.

My statement was correct and factual,augustus typed out utter bullshit

praising augubugug for trolling and basing his arguments on intentional lies and mis-information is an indication of not only the desperation you nigerians feel, but your inherently dishonest nature

Henry120:


I don't know how to say this without hurting your feelings

I really, really do not want you to go into another emotional tantrum.


Mr young provided indisputable facts.

I was talking to augbugug you illiterate clown

1. Read the post
2. Understand the post
3. Reply accordingly

And with regards to Mr Young - he was overly critical because his company lost out in the contract and he was destroyed on the stand.

His opinion (in testimony) is just that OPINION

Henry120:


Provide technical proof to show that Mr Young is wrong, and you are right. He provided sound evidence, and not this emotional post you are throwing around.


The fact is clear, South-African Valour Frigates are obsolete , Sub-standard and run on an archaic combat suite far below the requirements of the South-African Navy.

1. Mr Young was utterly destroyed when he took the stand.
2. There is nothing he said that says that the Valour Class is obsolete
3. He is not even talking about the combat suite as a whole - he is talking about a specific component of the combat suite (data-busses)
4. SAN requirements were adjusted according to availability of systems, acquisition costs, operational costs, life-cycle costs, training costs etc.

Your Mr Young is a critic because his company got outdone by another
Mr Young is only proclaiming the flaws of his competitors system and the pro's of his system.
The advantages of the system we purchased and the flaws of his system were conveniently forgotten.


and, yet again, I ask: Are you saying that Mr Young is right - and that all the admirals and staff of the French, South African, Saudi and Taiwanese navies are wrong?

Finally, yet again I remind you, the Valor Class is not only a more modern warship than any vessel in your navy, it has capabilities that no vessel in your navy has. I love the cognitive dissonance you display when criticizing things we have and you do not.

agaugust:


You and I have argued this last year and I proved it all, I updated it on wikipedia and showed my sources to EVERYBODY on this thread last year, Harpoon databases and Spanish navy ships website. I see no need for a repeat, "In 2001, another refit (with American assistance) was undertaken, and the ship returned to operation. The obsolete AWS 5 radar and PHS sonar were replaced with a Signaal STIR (I/J/K) 60 nm/120 km fire control (range, bearing, altitude), DA-08 90 nm/180 km air (search, track) as well as an Atlas EA80 20 nm/40 km passive anti-submarine sonar (bearing, class), in addition to these, all other systems including weapons were cleaned, overhauled and put in good working order."

Now you show us proof of new combat suite in Valour frigate, that you have removed the 20 year old navionics...show proof !
.

Signaal STIR (platform dates back to at least 1988)
https://books.google.co/books?id=4S3h8j_NEmkC&pg=PA267&lpg=PA267&dq=Signaal+STIR&source=bl&ots=hJUtOV1-f1&sig=ZXL1nIshZ4Jt2lUFHWx2VVLiUJg&hl=en&sa=X&ei=BjN0VeGxGs2B8gW1m4PYAQ&ved=0CDgQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=Signaal%20STIR&f=false

DA-08 (platform dates back to at least 1983)
http://www.helis.com/database/sys/290/

Conclusion: Combat suite in aradu is composed of hardware that is 30 years old.

jln115:

Go read the post i qouted then you'll understand why I said African forum.

But you do have one thing very right! I don't envy Nigeria in the slightest.

you say one thing, your actions says another.

Why are you afraid , uncomfortable and unsure?

With Nigeria's rise, south Africa is just a shadow.
Pretoria has expressed concerns and uncertainty.

Your rantings here are empty words.

Henry120:


Provide technical proof to show that Mr Young is wrong, and you are right. He provided sound evidence, and not this emotional post you are throwing around.


The fact is clear, South-African Valour Frigates are obsolete , Sub-standard and run on an archaic combat suite far below the requirements of the South-African Navy.

Bwhahahaha, that Mr. Young has finished t.hem o ! Everything South African is over-rated and over-estimated....over-hyped.

Only God knows how many people were bribed to do that deal for the purchase of obsolete stuff Valour frigates for SAN, they can bribe anybody including FIFA.....they just destroyed the good image of world football with their ANC government's super efficient international bribery machinery, well oiled high efficiency machinery, even professional scammers across the world will now fear South African fraud projection capability across all continents
.

Patchesagain:


It is difficult to remain calm.

That's why Henry says you are just being emotional

MikeCZAR:


His crying!! But I won't stop force feeding him humble pie.


1. A-Darter: Ordered.

A. Denel Dynamics has received a production contract for the A-Darter fifth-generation air-to-air missile from Armscor, which covers the production of missiles for the South African Air Force over the next five years.

Source: http://itweb.co.za/mobilesite/defenceweb/home/item_id-38741/



2. Badger IFV: Ordered

A. DLS was finally awarded a contract for 238 Badger IFVs and variants for the South African National Defence Force (SANDF).


Source: http://www.janes.com/article/43336/badger-nears-production-aad142

3. Skyshield upgrades: Completion 2017.

A. Rheinmetall Air Defence of Switzerland is upgrading part of the South African National Defence Force’s (SANDF) twin 35mm Oerlikon GDF-005 towed anti-aircraft guns (AAG) to the latest GDF-007 standard.

Conclusion: If complexion is extended it will due to the supply company not end user and money.


Source: http://www.janes.com/article/43318/south-africa-to-get-upgraded-gdf-weapons-aad142

4. DM2A4 heavyweight torpedo!

5. What is "merlin"? That's because it is still in a technology demonstration phase.

Conclusion: After A-Darter completion, Brazil will join!

6. OPVs: Submission will close soon, then will know the contenders.

1. A-Darter still not in service, and contract is for a 5 year period, so NO DATE as to when it will enter service, 5 years is 2015 to 2020.

Still no proof of payment, no amount of money mentioned, contract on paper, no money involved.

Same way SANDF signed contract for 238 Badgers and got 5 units in 15 years

Every other thing remains as I said :

2. Badger IFV, only 5 units out of 238 planned, only 5 units produced in 15 years

Conclusion : No money to build more

3. Skyshield under construction till 2017.

Conclusion : snail slow speed, may be on till 2020

4. Heavy Torpedo, only on paper Budget

Conclusion: no product name, no supplier name, no deal, no money

5. BVRAAM merlin missile.

Conclusion : Project with no date for completion. Brazil NOT signed to be involved. Missile NON-EXISTENT.

6. OPV In tender

Conclusion : Project Biro exists only on paper for almost 18 years, and will always be at paper stage. NO MONEY !

SAAF procurement dreams are a bunch of jokes !

Patchesagain:


Signaal STIR (platform dates back to at least 1988)
https://books.google.co/books?id=4S3h8j_NEmkC&pg=PA267&lpg=PA267&dq=Signaal+STIR&source=bl&ots=hJUtOV1-f1&sig=ZXL1nIshZ4Jt2lUFHWx2VVLiUJg&hl=en&sa=X&ei=BjN0VeGxGs2B8gW1m4PYAQ&ved=0CDgQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=Signaal%20STIR&f=false

DA-08 (platform dates back to at least 1983)
http://www.helis.com/database/sys/290/

Conclusion: Combat suite in aradu is composed of hardware that is 30 years old.

Nope, according to your own source, there are different versions and generations of of STIR radars

https://www.thalesgroup.com/en/netherlands/defence/stir-tracking-and-illumination-radar

Dutch, British, Canadian, etc including 2002 versions, then the American version which your own source says is very different and does not tell us the date of introduction. Nigeria got the STIR radar with American input, and it's NOT the 1988 version you mentioned, that was used by Argentina.

Your own source ruined your argument.

Aradu STIR radar was installed by America not same as Argentina's version your claim of 30 years is wrecked by your own source
.

MikeCZAR:
Look at this mor.on.

Comparing naval guns with howitzers! ;DD

This is the same emb.ecile who accused people of having inferior naval warfare knowledge.

Range: 120km+

Show me source of a naval gun with 120 km range with unguided shell.

Mumu domingo

agaugust:


Nope, according to your own source, there are different versions and generations of of STIR radars

https://www.thalesgroup.com/en/netherlands/defence/stir-tracking-and-illumination-radar

Dutch, British, Canadian, etc including 2002 versions, then the American version which your own source says is very different and does not tell us the date of introduction. Nigeria got the STIR radar with American input, and it's NOT the 1988 version you mentioned, that was used by Argentina.

Your own source ruined your argument.

Aradu STIR radar was installed by America not same as Argentina's version your claim of 30 years is wrecked by your own source
.

Signaal STIR is from 1988

End of story

agaugust:


1. A-Darter still not in service, and contract is for a 5 year period, so NO DATE as to when it will enter service, 5 years is 2015 to 2020.

Still no proof of payment, no amount of money mentioned, contract on paper, no money involved.

Same way SANDF signed contract for 238 Badgers and got 5 units in 15 years

Every other thing remains as I said :

2. Badger IFV, only 5 units out of 238 planned, only 5 units produced in 15 years

Conclusion : No money to build more

3. Skyshield under construction till 2017.

Conclusion : snail slow speed, may be on till 2020

4. Heavy Torpedo, only on paper Budget

Conclusion: no product name. DM2A4 is the product name. , no supplier name. Atlas Elektronik , no deal, no money.2015-16 Budget.

5. BVRAAM merlin missile.I don't know what you're talking about here

Conclusion : Project with no date for completion. Brazil NOT signed to be involved. Missile NON-EXISTENT.Your fantasy.

6. OPV In tender

Conclusion : Project Biro exists only on paper for almost 18 years, and will always be at paper stage. NO MONEY !Companies are submitting their bids.

SAAF procurement dreams are a bunch of jokes !

1. You said the order was for Brazil! I destroyed you! Now you wanna tell ask us when it will enter service

A. Be afraid!

2. No Badger has been produced! Only prototypes where produced for testing purposes.

A. A contract for the 200+ production vehicles was signed! Late this year or next year the SA army will take delivery of the BEST WHEELED IFV IN AFRICA!

3. Skyshield: Yes, very year until 2017 batteries, spare parts and training will be provided.

A. A single battery comes with 3 Sensor systems, 6 twin barrel gun and command post! So very year the SA army will take delivery of such the systems until completion in 2017.

I even went as far as correcting your post.

Be afraid of the ZA!

agaugust:


1. A-Darter still not in service, and contract is for a 5 year period, so NO DATE as to when it will enter service, 5 years is 2015 to 2020.

Still no proof of payment, no amount of money mentioned, contract on paper, no money involved.

Same way SANDF signed contract for 238 Badgers and got 5 units in 15 years

Every other thing remains as I said :

2. Badger IFV, only 5 units out of 238 planned, only 5 units produced in 15 years

Conclusion : No money to build more

3. Skyshield under construction till 2017.

Conclusion : snail slow speed, may be on till 2020

4. Heavy Torpedo, only on paper Budget

Conclusion: no product name, no supplier name, no deal, no money

5. BVRAAM merlin missile.

Conclusion : Project with no date for completion. Brazil NOT signed to be involved. Missile NON-EXISTENT.

6. OPV In tender

Conclusion : Project Biro exists only on paper for almost 18 years, and will always be at paper stage. NO MONEY !

SAAF procurement dreams are a bunch of jokes !

I love how you say all these things yet you have no proof or citations.

Utter and complete bullshit (as usual)

agaugust:


Bwhahahaha, that Mr. Young has finished t.hem o ! Everything South African is over-rated and over-estimated....over-hyped.

Only God knows how many people were bribed to do that deal for the purchase of obsolete stuff Valour frigates for SAN, they can bribe anybody including FIFA.....they just destroyed the good image of world football with their ANC government's super efficient international bribery machinery, well oiled high efficiency machinery, even professional scammers across the world will now fear South African fraud projection capability across all continents
.

Mr Young got finished in the stand.

As usual all you Nigerians have are allegations... not a fact to be seen!

And our "overhyped" frigates are better than your ZERO frigates

agaugust:


Show me source of a naval gun with 120 km range with unguided shell.

Mumu domingo

1. Name: OtoBreda. 127/62



A. Effective firing range: 30,000 metres.

B. Maximum firing range: 120 kilometres.

Source: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otobreda_127/64


2. Name: AGS.

A. Range: 120km+

Source: http://www.baesystems.com/product/BAES_020037/advanced-gun-system-ags?_afrLoop=1958488203289000&_afrWindowMode=0&_afrWindowId=null



Destroyed!!!!!!!!!!! He's now shifting goal posts! Mentioning guided shells MOR.ON

agaugust:


Dude, learn to leave an argument when you are corrected, trying to argue makes your comments worse.

There is no Umkhonto 60 km range missile on any warship anywhere, it's the 12 km I have told you.

Then nobody has gun with 120 km range on a ship.

Just leave the matter and stop this nonsense. No offence.

And here we can see Augubugubuks claim that "nobody has gun with 120km range on a ship".

Only later when educated by saffers he'll change goal posts by including guided in his statement.

NIGERIANS WILL COLLAPSE TOMORROW.

FOLLOW DEFENCE NEWS TOMORROW.

Patchesagain:


I was talking to augbugug you illiterate clown

1. Read the post
2. Understand the post
3. Reply accordingly

And with regards to Mr Young - he was overly critical because his company lost out in the contract and he was destroyed on the stand.

His opinion (in testimony) is just that OPINION

Provide technical proof to show that Mr Young is wrong, and you are right. He provided sound evidence, and not this emotional post you are throwing around.


The fact is clear, South-African Valour Frigates are obsolete , Sub-standard and run on an archaic combat suite far below the requirements of the South-African Navy.