GoodMuyis:


I was referring to Verse before the statement


Statement after it were commentary by Jesus base on the what just happen, and he is using the instances to teach his disciples a cogent lesson of life.

Now let me reverse you back from where you are coming from


The above are you words quote, and it means no Christian should be wealthy, but rather sell whatever they have and give for charity, anything other than this is against Jesus teaching, that is just the meaning of you argument.

And am enlightening you that the condition Jesus was giving to the Young rich man sell your property and give to the poor and come and follow me. That is was the rich guy criteria to become Jesus recruit.

Be aware that Jesus did not use follow me for everyone but to those who are ready to be his close associate (disciples)

Matthew 16:24 - Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me

So please take this to the bank

aribisala0:

I have no opinion just the word of Jesus as reported . It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.If you like write another bible those words will not change

Penalty82:


The Old Testament say we should pay tithe and the New Testament supported it by referring us to the tithe Ibrahim paid to Melchizedek.

Hebrews 7;
1 For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;
2 To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;

WotzupNG:

The General Overseer of Redeemed Christian Church of God, Pastor E.A Adeboye has reacted to talks on the internet which speaks against tithing.

His words appeared to be directed at OAP Daddy Freeze who is fund of castigating Pastors and preaching against tithing.

Video and transcript of the Pastor's sermon below.



However, Daddy Freeze responded to the sermon by the Pastor about him.



http://www.purplefeel.com/2017/11/pastor-e-a-adeboye-tithing-oap-freeze.html


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrcJJQ52I-8&feature=youtu.be

Klimaths:
how many times did Abraham paid tithes, and if you down on that same Hebrew 7:12, KJV:For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
ESV:For when there is a change in the priesthood, there is necessarily a change in the law as well.
NIV:For when the priesthood is changed, the law must be changed also.
AMP:For when there is a change in the priesthood, there is of necessity an alteration of the law [concerning the priesthood] as well. So please explain this verse 12 .

Penalty82:


Outline the laws that was changed in those verses.

CampuChan:

In the typical Nigerian case, we have become poor so that Pastors can become rich.
My own Bible frowns at being rich, don't know the kind of Bible you read but mine says in "Matthew 19:24"

"Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone
who is rich to enter the kingdom of God."

Penalty82:


The Old Testament say we should pay tithe and the New Testament supported it by referring us to the tithe Ibrahim paid to Melchizedek.

Hebrews 7;
1 For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;
2 To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;

patinno8:
I dont know what is really wrong with us in christiandom, why cant we for one time speak good of our pastors? Every now and then, somebody must castigate a pastor. How many times, have you seen muslim cleric been castigated by a muslim? Are they all saints? No, but they have respect for their clerics. See, churches are filled up today with unrepentant sinners, instead of repenting from their sins, they will continue to point accusing fingers at others- Adeboye, kumuyi, oyedepo, oyakhilome etc are not good, so which one is good. Stop speaking evil of others!

HARDDON:


Do you know why soldiers that crucified him cast lots with his garment?

Do you know the state of the upper room where they had the last supper?

If more than two cars is a covoy, what do you call two or more ship?

John the baptist ate locusts n drank wild honey, guess what Jesus feasted in?

Finally, do you know the worth of the oilment Mary anionted his legs with?


Let us stop deceiving ourselves. Like begets like .there is no way the almighty God, the owner of heaven and earth could raise poor kids.
If you are poor as a Christian, so many factors are responsible which can be traced to YOU as an individual. "For he has given us all things to enjoy! " ... " He was made poor that we might be RICH! "

gone are the days the world refer to Christians as church rats, now they can't stand the sheer opulence n blessings they talk thrash about tithe. Like they can breath in without breathing out.

Giving is living. It is a law of life.... You eat, you must pass out wastes, you in breath, you must out breath.

And tithe is to promote the kingdom of heaven! If presidents ride jets, God's mouth pieces on earth couldnt ride bicycles. The jets are used to futher the last madate of Christ " Go ye into the world and preach the gospel... "
Pastors wudnt trek into the globe to do that.

And if you didn't know, the poor ain't poor for lack of money, they are poor for lack of mental ability.

...n Christ even said " the poor you would always have with you..... " why? because not every1 wud be willing to pay the price for wealth whose first price is Reading.

Adeebiwa09:


I couldn't agree more but I actually have a few questions to ask you in sequence ; did Jesus choose pastors to be the only ones to be like him? Then if freeze is a Christian let him do the works of Christ bible says he that is faithful in little is in much let's us know the work of Christ he has done with his money or with the one tenth he doesn't pay as tithe? If he is doing nothing then he should go and shut up.

By their fruit we shall know them and also show me your faith by your works, let him follow this scriptures and the example of Christ. Btw his continues bashing of "men of God" how has it led anyone to Christ or fulfill the great mandate in Matthew 28:18-19, instead he is hardening people's heart to Christ brother this is not the issue of tithe controversies about tithe has existed even in the time of Christ so why is it important now I am sorry if this offends you but I think freeze is allowing his passion for the truth to be lived to be manipulated by the devil.

Honestly I have a very great reservation for men of God as it has to do with the flamboyant lives they are living honestly it's painful so much that we seem not to be seeing the effect of the Church in the nation and that is our best way of evangelising Christ. If I was freeze instead of exchanging words and been the center of controversies which the Bible clearly speaks against he should be quite and preach his gospel which is funny actually the gospel against tithing. If you are saying you want to free the sheeple preach repentance, holiness, faith, holy spirit etc but even if remotely he does it will still be controversial because freeze does not have the right or proof he can teach the word ask 2 Tim 3

Jesus didn't have time to exchange words with the Pharisees he showed the way with his life, let freeze show people the truth by his life and money (if it's a passion let him have a seminar, program etc to teach and preach and stop ranting on instagram with cheap data).

One thing matters the most Christ and him been crucified and freeze by all indication is an enemy of the cross because he is preaching Christ of malice and causing division. Let you and I be true representation of Christ and see sheep becoming free.

Sorry for the long text book, just wanted to elucidate. Thanks shalom and God bless

gattoch:


Lie lie lie... Jesus insulted the Pharisees, Scribes and Sadducees in his time... Freeze is doing God's work already by opening the eyes of the blind and freeing those under the spell of fake abd evil prophets... Does God need a camp or my money to have me serve him? John 4: 20- 24 answers that. Stop being dogmatic... Wake up!

chipower:
If we must pay tithe, we must fulfill other mosaic laws. Why must we pick only one, the one that has to do with money. Apostles did not collect tithes. Early church didn't pay tithes. Priests who collected tithes in the old testament era had no inheritance but all the tithe collectors we have now have different types of inheritance. The poverty in our society has nothing to do with tithe. It is a systematic problem. In a society where things are done the right way, Christian, muslims, aethist, misers, idol worshipers, satanists,marmons etc all enjoy prosperity. There is no difference between those who pay tithe and those who do not pay in Nigeria. Everbody is suffering from the same harsh conditions brought about due to the failures in our system. There is no evidence that supports paying tithe makes you richer. All i see in Nigeria are personal testimonies which contradicts the reality on the ground in their various churches and in our society as a whole. I have seen stingy people who are very rich. I have seen people who do not go to church but they are very rich and prosperous in terms of early riches. Uncountable tithe payers in Nigeria are very poor just like many others who don't pay. It's nobody's fault but the fault of systematic failures. Many poor nigerians who left nigeria for a better society got better financially with time. I have many of them as friends.

chipower:
If we must pay tithe, we must fulfill other mosaic laws. Why must we pick only one, the one that has to do with money. Apostles did not collect tithes. Early church didn't pay tithes. Priests who collected tithes in the old testament era had no inheritance but all the tithe collectors we have now have different types of inheritance. The poverty in our society has nothing to do with tithe. It is a systematic problem. In a society where things are done the right way, Christian, muslims, aethist, misers, idol worshipers, satanists,marmons etc all enjoy prosperity. There is no difference between those who pay tithe and those who do not pay in Nigeria. Everbody is suffering from the same harsh conditions brought about due to the failures in our system. There is no evidence that supports paying tithe makes you richer. All i see in Nigeria are personal testimonies which contradicts the reality on the ground in their various churches and in our society as a whole. I have seen stingy people who are very rich. I have seen people who do not go to church but they are very rich and prosperous in terms of early riches. Uncountable tithe payers in Nigeria are very poor just like many others who don't pay. It's nobody's fault but the fault of systematic failures. Many poor nigerians who left nigeria for a better society got better financially with time. I have many of them as friends.

Adeebiwa09:


Yes, you have a lot of points but before you conclude and teach so please look into it from these angles.

SORRY IT WOULD BE LONG BUT INDULGE ME YOU WILL SEE WHAT I WAS SAYING

1. Please and please paying tithe is not a mosaic law, Abraham paid tithes to MELCHIDEZEK, who was a picture of Christ and that was not a yardstick for his prosperity but the blessing of the Lord which makes rich and adds no sorrow, then bible says honor the Lord with your substance and the first fruit of your increase. So paying tithe is an honor to God. I keep seeing and insisting that all these pay tithe or not is just an Avenue people are looking not to pay tithe. Truthfully the churches where these tithes are paid are not helping the members but think of it if someone is not sufficient after tithe then not paying tithe won't make the person rich. Now the issue of the mosaic law and tithe there are a lot of mosaic laws that is not repeated in the new testament but is still a sin to do it. What about that?

2. The early church may not have spoken about tithe in terms of one tenth but they were mad in giving, people sold their properties, gave half, more than half etc that is more than tithe so, the new testament gave more than tithe and that is what we should emulate but the church in our days does not, I am talking about they having all things common. The church had no rich and no poor, no divide but now what do we have? So...

3. In rebuking the Pharisees, Jesus told them they pay tithe of all things but disregard the heavier matters of the law so tithe is not to be disregarded even if it's not heavier it is heavy. Remember the money paid in the temple that was tithe but the widow gave all, while others paid part, she was recognised for giving more because she honored God with her substance, why mammon. Mammon is the only thing "equated" to God, you can't serve God and mammon. So giving to God is a show of the level of your love. You can't claim you love God and not give.

4. This is actually Strange but just humor me. The old testament is actually divided into 3. A. Pre law times B. Mosaic law times C. Pre grace period, just consider the characters and relationships of God and people from the fall to the exodus, the exodus to the time of David, David to the return from exile

PS THE PROBLEM OR ISSUES I WOULD HAVE LOVED IF FREEZE AND OTHERS TO FOCUS ON WOULD BE WHAT THE CHURCH SHOULD USE TITHE, OFFERING AND THE CHURCH RICHES FOR MATT 28:18-19. AFFECT AND CHANGE THE WORLD BUT WE HAVE SAT ON COSTLY UNIVERSITIES (MISSIONARIES BUILT SCHOOLS AND GAVE FREE EDUCATION), ELECTRICITY, HEALTH ETC WE WOULD CHANGE THE WORLD AND BRING PEOPLE TO CHRIST THROUGH THAT

God bless and love you

chipower:


Paying tithe is a part of mosaic law. Abraham paid tithe without pressure, command or curse….he also did not tithe of his substance but of the spoils of war. In other words his tenth was voluntary. He was not compelled by any law to do so. Again what he did was a one time thing. There was no indication anywhere else that he was tithing in the hands of MELCHIDEZEK before or after the incident contrary to your opinion of Abraham paying 'tithes' to MELCHIDEZEK.
This tithe is different from the one tithe collectors are talking about. They are talking about the one which was later included in the Mosaic Law which carries commands to give a tenth for tabernacle worship. Tithing is mentioned 18 times in the Law, as the people were to share their produce and livestock to support the Levites etc. This is the one that carries commands which Malachi was talking about. I wonder who told you that tithe is not a mosaic law. Tithing is still a mosaic law till today. You can go and ask any jew whether tithe is a mosaic law or not and see the reply he will give you. You can also google it. Who taught you this? Tithing was later included in the mosaic law therefore it's a mosaic law. i don't really understand when you say it's not a mosaic law. Are you the one who removed it from the list?

I don't need to touch other points you raised cos i don't think it is necessary in order to make my points clear but i will do in the future if necessary .

Remain blessed

Adeebiwa09:


Thank you, I get your point and you made it very clear and profound. However you omitted the question of we following other mosaic laws because as you said if want to follow one we must follow all example if you want are certain regulations on child birth, incest and stuff, people marrying as virgins and so on, common what am I even saying what about the teachings of the new testaments that we don't follow. And to your question as to who taught me it was the TEACHER. believe it or not I learn from him and confirm from ministers and still do my searching. You know with what you said I have learnt something new and my spirit bears witness even though you were not able to address some points I raised, in your defence NL is not a suitable platform to discuss those. Malachi actually says bring all the tithes so that there would be meat and it didn't say tithe alone it says tithe and offering Mal 3:8 so what do you think offering is also old testament and should not be paid. I only question the motive behind this preaching against tithe if it's a question of the way men of God use it I understand but that we shouldn't pay then you have cancelled Matt 28:18-19 and Luk 10, so it should come like it came to the apostles but should be disbursed well let's change our fight to what it is used for. It's a good thing you mentioned Jews I will have you reminded that they are the riches and most successful tribe in the world, then again we are alienated from Israel until salvation and also we are Abraham's seed, then again we are circumcised thus we are 'Jews' so we should pay tithe. Jesus didn't come to abolish the mosaic laws all together in that law are regulatory laws, ceremonial laws and laws because of the hardness of heart Jesus spoke against the last one because the Holy Spirit will deal with them all eg an eye for an eye and so on. Thanks for your time, passion for God and knowledge I celebrate knowing and meeting someone who still knows the word in this our days

aribisala0:

Offerings are mentioned several times in the old testament . The first time being Cain and Abel. All the other times seem related to these 5 ideas

The burnt offering,Lev 6:13 'A fire shall always be burning on the altar; it shall never go out.Lev 1:3 'Let him offer a male without blemish; he shall offer it of his own free will at the door of the tabernacle of meeting before the LORD.
the meal offering,2 “‘When anyone brings a grain offering to the Lord, their offering is to be of the finest flour. They are to pour olive oil on it, put incense on it 2 and take it to Aaron’s sons the priests. The priest shall take a handful of the flour and oil, together with all the incense, and burn this as a memorial[a] portion on the altar, a food offering, an aroma pleasing to the Lord. 3 The rest of the grain offering belongs to Aaron and his sons; it is a most holy part of the food offerings presented to the Lord.
the peace offering, When his offering is a sacrifice of a peace offering, if he offers it of the herd, whether male or female, he shall offer it without blemish before the Lord. 2 And he shall lay his hand on the head of his offering, and kill it at the door of the tabernacle of meeting; and Aaron’s sons, the priests, shall sprinkle the blood all around on the altar.
the sin offering, Lev 4:1-4 Now the LORD spoke to Moses, saying, "Speak to the children of Israel, saying: 'If a person sins unintentionally against any of the commandments of the LORD in anything which ought not to be done, and does any of them, 'if the anointed priest sins, bringing guilt on the people, then let him offer to the LORD for his sin which he has sinned a young bull without blemish as a sin offering. 'He shall bring the bull to the door of the tabernacle of meeting before the LORD, lay his hand on the bull's head, and kill the bull before the LORD.

and
the trespass offering .Lev 6:5-7 "He shall restore its full value, add one-fifth more to it, and give it to whomever it belongs, on the day of his trespass offering. And he shall bring his trespass offering to the LORD, a ram without blemish from the flock, with your valuation, as a trespass offering, to the priest. So the priest shall make atonement for him before the LORD, and he shall be forgiven for any one of these things that he may have done in which he trespasses."

In summary offerings were prescribed rituals similar to what the Yoruba may call EboRiru. Remember when Saul went to Amalek and returned with animals which he claimed were for sacrifice.

In short Jehovah the deity of the Jews enjoyed blood sacrifice and this iw what was meant by "OFFERING" in some verses though offering is not the most accurate term . It was sacrificial material usually animal but sometimes cereal or grain that was burnt because Jehovah found the aroma pleasing
We have used ritual sacrifice in traditional African religion for ever and would not use the term "offering" but in Yoruba we say "Ebo"
It was not money

Many Chritians seem oblivious of the history of Jehova as an Ebo loving deity

Adeebiwa09:


Lolx very funny sir, Jehova sure loves blood, I don't think I need to respond to what you said you have made your point but sorry to say it's incomplete and baseless, because you failed to see the new testament giving in your points and more importantly you don't sound like some in Christ more like an atheist or an Idol worship. However one thing remains my prime purpose of all this talk Jesus and Him being glory. Thank you, God bless and we love you.

aribisala0:

Are you folk ever able to debate issues on their merit.


Alll you ever do is resort to hypocritical name calling and labelling.


I quoted the bible. Instead of with the issues you are talking nonsense about atheist and idol worship.



Instead of dealing with issues you are talking of Freeze's marriage


That is evidence of lack oof ideas


The point is a simple one Offering as described in the bible is not going to provide sanctuary for tthose losing the tithe argument..

Offerings generally were a blood sacrifice which is the essential nature of Jehova.

As far as idols go . I suggest you open a dictionary because there are countlesss examples of idolatry in the Old Testament.

Let us not derail

Offerings are not in anyway the same as voluntary cash gifts



They are ritual sacrifices to be performed in a prescribed way

Adeebiwa09:


Please sir you are misunderstanding me besides who mentioned freezes marriage, I am not one of those people. And about offering there is no where in the new testament where giving is composary. Let me say finally sir that I am neither on freezes side nor on any man of God's side I stand with God and his word if anyone goes against it I am at the opposite side of that person. Then again you are entitled to your opinion. What the Bible teaches is what I follow and will continue to follow. Jehova is a blood sucker wow seriously I will still follow him, I have no point in the debate I will still follow him, losing the tithe argument very funny it was never an argument just people opening declaring their stand be that as it may I will still follow, follow him not any man but Jesus. Btw lose or win the number of people who will stop paying tithe after all the bashing of that is insignificantly different from those who do. Those saying not paying tithe is kk have not been paying since so nothing changes.

Ps I am very sorry if I crossed you with my expressions don't intend to offend you thanks egbon God bless

aribisala0:

You said I sound like an Idol worshiper. For me that is not a matter of offence or not but understanding and judgment. The truth of the matter is that the moment you start worshipping the monotheist God you start idolatry. It is inevitable and I will expatiate.
We have five senses through which we experience the world

Smell
Sight
Touch
Sound
Taste

If I experience rice it is through those senses and for me to communicate about it to another I use those senses. If I call it "RICE" the person I am communicating with either hears a sound e.g Rice ,Iresi Arroz or whatever sound is agreed. If we reflect on that .That sound is just a random energy which we then agree is how we communicate about rice.When I say Rice we know what I mean. but "RICE" the sound has nothing to do with rice the grain other than we decide so " by convention". We cannot eat the word "RICE" or touch it etc. A person who is deaf and dumb and blind can still experience rice. Now beyond the sound is the representation with letters. R.I.C.E as I am using here(no sound) involved still you understand what I mean

If we switch that to "GOD" when those letters G.O.D appear what comes to mind and is this the same for every person who claims to worship GOD? I don't think it is the same.

What do we do . We flesh God out with more word

Omnipotent,Omniscient Most merciful etc but those words do not help us in achieving same understanding. They are just sounds ,random sounds without meaning like the sounds of a musical instrument at random.Until people AGREE in their language this is what this sound means or that sound means. To a person who does not learn that language .The sounds are meaningless. A language can be created out of nothing.The sounds have always existed long before the language. Just like the carving has always been hidden in the log of wood

The sound if we speak it or letters if we read it interact with one of those 5 senses to communicate and convey a message about GOD. for those who believe there is only one we may do so in different ways in different cultures and language but the reality is we are making a SENSORY REPRESENTATION of an entity that we do not experience through the senses. i,.e sound and visual(writing).

Many then say it is okay to represent God in this way but not to draw or to carve. drawing or carving is idolatry but naming is not??

When I am hungry I know.
Calling it "HUNGER" is not any where near to the experience neither is carving or painting hunger a realistic proposition.
Any neurologist who has worked with the sensory impaired will grasp these ideas.

The point is calling it in speech "GOD" ,Writing it in text or drawing it on a wall or making a stone or wood carving are by definition all forms of

IDOLATRY. The religious snobbery that posits that somehow singing the word God( a creation of language from sound) is better or less idolatrous than a carving from stone.
Why can't God be represented by a RINGTONE if we agree that is what it should mean?
can a deaf and blind person relate to GOD

The only senses available to him are touch smell and taste. Can he taste God or smell him?
How does he worship?

Language is as much a carving from ether as any physical sculpture is from wood
The idea that "GOD" has a "NAME" is a fiction of man as as idolatrous as the idea that God has a form both ideas seek to circumscribe "GOD" to one of our five senses
calling a thing an idol simply means it does not coincide with your own ideas but how is that different from an English speaker calling Yoruba and Idol since to his hears and senses it is MEANINGLESS

Adeebiwa09:


Yes sir I get your point and I am 'wowed' at your high intellectual ability. From what I understood from what you said you make a good point but if I don't know better I would be confused by what you are saying to think you are projecting Atheism and just maybe you can help the boys with you linguistic prowess. Thanks I have been enlightened with regards to how I can make my relationship better with God.

If I may ask what is your religious affiliations or belief

aribisala0:

Honestly I do not think it is relevant to the discussion. You might as well ask if my marriage is in crisis
In all seriousness I do not believe I have greater intellectual ability than you do. If it seems that way that is only because,perhaps, I think and question more. Though I am not sure if that is true.

Adeebiwa09:


Thank you, I get your point and you made it very clear and profound. However you omitted the question of we following other mosaic laws because as you said if want to follow one we must follow all example if you want are certain regulations on child birth, incest and stuff, people marrying as virgins and so on, common what am I even saying what about the teachings of the new testaments that we don't follow. And to your question as to who taught me it was the TEACHER. believe it or not I learn from him and confirm from ministers and still do my searching. You know with what you said I have learnt something new and my spirit bears witness even though you were not able to address some points I raised, in your defence NL is not a suitable platform to discuss those. Malachi actually says bring all the tithes so that there would be meat and it didn't say tithe alone it says tithe and offering Mal 3:8 so what do you think offering is also old testament and should not be paid. I only question the motive behind this preaching against tithe if it's a question of the way men of God use it I understand but that we shouldn't pay then you have cancelled Matt 28:18-19 and Luk 10, so it should come like it came to the apostles but should be disbursed well let's change our fight to what it is used for. It's a good thing you mentioned Jews I will have you reminded that they are the riches and most successful tribe in the world, then again we are alienated from Israel until salvation and also we are Abraham's seed, then again we are circumcised thus we are 'Jews' so we should pay tithe. Jesus didn't come to abolish the mosaic laws all together in that law are regulatory laws, ceremonial laws and laws because of the hardness of heart Jesus spoke against the last one because the Holy Spirit will deal with them all eg an eye for an eye and so on. Thanks for your time, passion for God and knowledge I celebrate knowing and meeting someone who still knows the word in this our days

chipower:


Im not a jew. Christains cannot be jews. A jew is a person who believes in and practises the religion of Judaism. Jews don't believe in Jesus Christ. They don't believe that he is the son of God. They don't believe that he is the Messiah. Jews believe in mosaic law. Hope you understand.

 On the issue of Matthew 23:23 & Luke 11:42, the first thing we have to understand when we look at these verses is that the New Covenant did not begin until Jesus died on the cross. These verses occur in the context of the Old Covenant and were directed to people who were still under the Old Covenant. Jesus was born under the Old Covenant and under the Law of Moses, as were all the Jews who were alive during Jesus’ life. It was necessary for Jesus to be born under the Law and to keep it perfectly so He could serve as the perfect sacrifice to cover the punishment of our sins. Jesus was not talking to gentiles or christians. There is no where in these verses where Jesus told Christians to pay tithes.

       'But when the fullness of the time came, God sent out his Son, born to a woman, born under the law, 5 that he might redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of children'.Galatians 4:4-5 

Jesus was also exposing the hypocrisy of Pharisees and scribes who observed some laws and neglected the more important ones. Consequently, he urged them to obey all. If you must tithe, you must observe all. No two ways about that.

Christians are not under the law of Moses. It's made clear in many places in the Bible. Examples:
'1 Stand firm therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and don’t be entangled again with a yoke of bondage. 2 Behold, I, Paul, tell you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will profit you nothing. 3 Yes, I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. 4You are alienated from Christ, you who desire to be justified by the law. You have fallen away from grace. 5 For we, through the Spirit, by faith wait for the hope of righteousness. 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision amounts to anything, nor uncircumcision, but faith working through love.'
Galatians 5:1-6 ,
“For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them” Gal 3:10.,
'But by becoming a curse for us Christ has redeemed us from the curse that the Law brings; for the scripture says, “Anyone who is hanged on a tree is under God's curse.”Gal 3:13. Etc.

I have searched the new testament to see where tithing was taught to Christian but i have not seen one. Jesus did not collect tithes. Apostles didn't collect tithes. Paul did not collect tithes. Early christians did not collect tithes. It was introduced centuries later. This is well documented. The question is 'why should we collect it?' we are in the new covenant. So why? Why must we do what the apostles and early christians, who handed down our faith to us, didn't do.

Even if someone decides to partaking in some parts of the law, like tithing, let it be voluntary so that it doesn't become a curse to him or her when he or she didn't observe the others.

Adeebiwa09:


Nice to hear from you again, I see your on point view, knowledge and understanding
I celebrate you sir I just have a few long questions, sorry for the learnt I like been expressive

1. If the old testament in the context of the Mosaic law, which is not Gen to malachi by the way, is irrelevant to Christians why is it part of the Bible?

2. In the life of Jesus according to luke he had women one of them a very influential woman gave for his ministry, throughout his living their where people who supplied what he needed, even his "boxers" was expensive ask the soldier who were doing "naijabet" on it. He sent them out without money but they lacked nothing meaning they didn't manage, was it an angel that gave they money or the woman who poured an expensive jar of ointment on him. Granted a lot of pastors live extravagant lives, but this tithe is even different from personal gifts to them called prophet offering and honorarium. The use is still my issue. Then Judas was the treasurer, he was the only one among the Disciples with an office. Money was all over Jesus' ministry he was ruled by it and it wasn't the centre that's the difference with the ministers these days. Care to disagree?

3. I would like you to know that if today all Christians stop paying tithe to churches and decide to do whatever with it which I believe over 75 will use it for personal ingradizement the top ministers can not go poor. Meanwhile who told you that they use tithe for personal reasons the effect those men as little as we see it has made to the country the government who is actually tasked with the work has not. Talk of road, scholarships, schools, hospitals etc

4. Lastly, in the acts of Apostles there was a lot of giving even more than tithe, entrusted into the hand of Paul, the early church people gave more than half of all they had the couple that didn't and lied died. In philippians and 1 Corinthians Paul praise the Philippian and Macedonian church for meeting his need all the time and even encourage more, that other churches started doing same. Several times he could thank people for support in kind and cash so is that not a new testament practice we should follow?

Granted people should give willing even Paul admonished that but don't you think all this brouhaha and hullabaloo about tithe, giving, Pastors etc will discourage people from giving which is a new testament bible practice? Don't you think as much as we say tithe is not new testament, are we not adding any form of giving to it? What is even the purpose of all this talk will not paying the one tenth make the person richer than dangote in 40 years, will paying it affect their life, all the while they have been paying did they get into trouble for paying? I really see no sense in our (not you but Christians in general) stupid argument that is focused on nothing but vain babbling all these bible warns against. If I don't see a biblical, Kingdom growth purpose to what I want to do I better leave it. Heb 6 says we should leave trivia things and move on to perfection and better things. In the context of what we are discussing Rev. 22 says let him that do good, evil, holy, tithe not tithe I added those, continue I am coming and my reward is with me to give to everyone what his work (study James on work and faith with giving) shall be. I don't think you will give a reward to someone who did nothing.

As always I am elated hearing from you, you depth is awesome. I have learnt from your writing in all sincerity God is witness, I am not trying to be political. Thanks continue in God's grace. Love you

chipower:


If you erase references to the mosaic law in the old testament, Christains will not be able to know what it is. They will not know it when they see it. Consequently, Christians will not be able to stay away from it. I'm staying away from mosaic tithing because it is among the mosaic law in the old testament. References of the law were made in many places in the new testament, therefore, there is no way anybody can understand what the new testament is saying without knowing what the law or old covenant is all about. To be frank with you, I'm surprised at this question. Perhaps, you are trying to tell me indirectly that we should observe the mosaic law because it's still in the bible. If this is what you are trying to say then what is the reason for the new covenant. The law belongs to the old covenant. That is what my bible says.

'For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. Hebrew8:7'

There are 613 Old Covenant laws in the Old Testament (ask any Orthodox Jew) Many church leaders have selected one of those laws to keep for the Church, The Tithe. To support this, they quote Malachi who was talking about mosaic tithing.
However, in the old covenant, all 613 laws had to be kept perfectly. To break any one voided the entire contract and attracts curses.

'For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.' James 2:10.

Unless you are a Jew living under the Old Covenant, these laws and Jewish Observances did not apply to you in the first place.


'..and through Him everyone who believes is freed from all things, from which you could not be freed through the Law of Moses.' Acts 13:39.

'Now, therefore, why are you putting God to the test by placing a yoke on the neck of the (new Gentiles believers) disciples that neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?' Acts 15:10 .

'Blotting out ordinances which was against us, taking them out of the way by nailing them to his cross.' Colossians 2:14.

'Moses’ Teachings designated mortals as chief priests even though they had weaknesses. But God’s promise, which came after Moses’ Teachings, designated the Son who forever accomplished everything that God required.' Hebrews 7: 28.

Your second point is irrelevant in our discussion because it has nothing to do with whether mosaic tithing being preached by many pastors using Malachi is allowed in the new covenant or not. You have not been able to show so far why we must remove only tithing or some others from the law and observe them. Im not against supporting the church. If you like, sell your house and donate the money to the church. We are not discussing how much Jesus and his disciples received during his ministry. Pls focus on the topic of discussion. Obviously, Jesus and his disciples did not collect tithes.

Your third point is also irrelevant. Pls, stay on course. What you said did not address anything on the topic. Point of correction, i have never said that pastors misuse tithe money. That should be another topic of discussion. All I'm saying is that mosaic tithing is not allowed in the new covenant. I have used the bible and church history to support my argument so far. Pls don't put words into my mouth.

Your fourth point is once again irrelevant. If a christian wants, let him sell all his possessions and give the money to his pastor. It's his choice. Im not discouraging anyone from giving to church. Im just repeating the warnings the bible gave to christians concerning the law. Preaching mosaic tithing to christians is not a trivial matter because the apostles warned christians to stay away from the law. I take the word of God seriously.

“Each one should give as he has decided (purposed) in his own heart, not out of duty or obligation, for God loves a cheerful giver.' 2 Corinthians 9:7.

It's hypocrisy to bring one or two mosaic laws from 613 laws of the old covenant into new covenant while leaving others out. It doesn't work that way. Infact, the tithing done in many churches today is quite different from how the jews are tithing. Im not really against tithing but im against mosaic tithing which Malachi talked about. The law carries curses that's why Christains were warned to stay away. If you do one, you must do the rest. If not, you have failed. If you must give God ten percent or more of your earnings, don't do it under the Law. Again, christ didn't collect tithes, apostles didn't collect tithes and early christians didn't collect tithes. Tithing started centuries after the death and resurrection of Jesus. Many pastors who collect tithes know about this. Why they collect it ( mosaic tithing) is still a mystery to me. We must not cut and join the word of God. Thanks