Ibime:

@ topic,
In an era where players used to run 5km per game, there was enough space for players like Pele to cop a humongous amount of goals.
Let Pele come and play in this era where players run 12km per game (thus limiting space, and consequently chances), where teams play with 2 defensive midfielders and 4 defenders. . . . lets see whether Pele would be able to score 400 goals, talkless of 1000.
The old man should go and sleep abeg.

And in this era when the offside rule has been tweaked and tweened to force strikers to score (check Italia 90) and there is no longer a back-pass rule,In this era where divers abound and clueless ref walk about on pitches with no idea as to what to use the whistles in their mouths,in this era where any sort of contact is judged a foul by these refs,in this era where there is an increase in real and imagined penalties,tell me why anyone shouldn't score 2000 goals.
It's freak'n easy these days.The standards have dropped so badly.Players are not as available like they used to in a World Cup year.
USA 94 had Romario,Stoickov,Baggio all finishing in the top regions of the scorers chart.Do you see strikers in the mould of Raul in his prime,fat Ronaldo,Suker,Klinsmann,Del Piero,Vieri,Rivaldo,Owen,Shearer gathering at this mundial as they did in France 98?Aside from Rooney,Messi,CR and maybe Drogba,are there any other lethal strikers setting the world ablaze and whetting your appetite for the football fiesta in the summer?

@ibime,
I can see that you dont any real fact to back up your point that football now's harder than before, lemme play by your rules, how manage that manU was able to score 7 against roma? How about holland vs serbia @ o6 wc? U remember the scoreline right? Saudi vs germany 02 wc? Remember that too? Goals cant be used to determine if football of now's harder than of old, try checking fouls stats in the past to now, maybe that might give u a clue. Headbuting and elbowing was like goalkicks then, players always ended matches with bruises and broken bones compared to now, ask those who were fortunate to watch football at that time for the raw tale.

@honeric

Football of today is totally more advance to that of pele's. A lot of correction and upgrade had been made so people like pele would score free and easy goals. Try and watch old clips on youtube and then watch clips of Zidane, messi, ronaldihno, ronaldo and tell me the difference, that should be your homework for today.

@smile4kenn
U just dont get it, do u? I'm talking of the way reckless and career treatening tackles were rampant then, you're talking of advancement, who does not know that football has upgraded and that any reckless tackle from a player would earn him a straight red, fines and suspensions compared to the era where players are seen chasing refs with blows and ready to even break the opposing coach's legs? So stop mixing up issues and learn to read comments properly before responding.

Greatest player my A/s/s! I don't even consider Messi the best player of the last 2 decades. I rate Zidane and Ronaldo more than him. Iniesta and Xavi make him appear extraordinary in Barca. What has he done for Argentina and wetin im don achieve with Argentina. . . .wasn't Messi involved in Argentina's 2010 WC Qualifying campaign in which they struggled to qualify and were beaten by teams with lesser pedigree. Frankly, I'm sick and tired of all this talk about Messi. . . .even here in  Nairaland. . .there are multiple threads like who will mark Messi, Messi vs Nigeria etc. You open paper na Messi, you listen to sports news for radio and tv, na Messi. . . .Messi be God? Wetin im don play against Nigeria the 2 times we've met apart from getting 2 penalties and making a pass that resulted in a goal? Nor be Argentine fans dey tell am recently sey make im go prove himself for South Africa?. . . .make I just sms for now. I dey await Messi for World Cup. . . . . . . . .make I see wetin he wan play against Nigeria in particular this time. Nonsense!

Isn't it somewhat ironic that those arguing that football is harder today have not taken into consideration messi's size. Does anyone really think that messi could have survived football in the 60s? The evidence is in the fact that there were no great footballers in messi, fabregas, etc size in those days. Messi could not have taken the tackles dished in the 60s. Please watch the battle of santiago (62 WC) between Chile and Italy for education. Fabregas started as an anchor man; what a joke. These days you have physically un-imposing players like iniesta, xavi, fabregas bossing games.

Eastbay:

And in this era when the offside rule has been tweaked and tweened to force strikers to score (check Italia 90) and there is no longer a back-pass rule,In this era where divers abound and clueless ref walk about on pitches with no idea as to what to use the whistles in their mouths,in this era where any sort of contact is judged a foul by these refs,in this era where there is an increase in real and imagined penalties,tell me why anyone shouldn't score 2000 goals.
It's freak'n easy these days.The standards have dropped so badly.Players are not as available like they used to in a World Cup year.

honeric01:

@ibime,
I can see that you dont any real fact to back up your point that football now's harder than before, lemme play by your rules, how manage that manU was able to score 7 against roma? How about holland vs serbia @ o6 wc? U remember the scoreline right? Saudi vs germany 02 wc? Remember that too? Goals cant be used to determine if football of now's harder than of old, try checking fouls stats in the past to now, maybe that might give u a clue. Headbuting and elbowing was like goalkicks then, players always ended matches with bruises and broken bones compared to now, ask those who were fortunate to watch football at that time for the raw tale.

If this was school, both of you have already scored F-

I mentioned scores like 7-3 and 5-2 because those were actual scores in European Cup Final and World Cup final respectively, yet some numpties are coming here to mention freak results like Saudi Arabias game against Germany.

This season, there is talk whether Chelsea can score 96 goals to become the highest scoring team in Premier league era, yet teams like Aston Villa scored 138 goals during Pele era.

Before coming to yarn opata, please go and check the historical goals per game average of all the major leagues in the world.

Back in Peles day when the standard formation was 4-2-4 and WW-formation (3-3-4), why will strikers not find it easy to score goals? Can you compare the space available to players from the 2 eras?

These numpties do not even know that Brazil had no National league during Peles career. At that time, they only played State Championships, and Pele only played in the Paulista Championship (Sao Paulo), where the only big teams are Santos, Gremio, Palmeiras, Corinthians and Sao Paulo. . . . the other 15 teams in the league being mostly semi-professional teams and bunch of amateurs. . . . no wonder Pele dey score 1000 goals. . . . NONSENSE!

Any mugu should be able to decipher that with Barcelona scoring 100 goals a season, it will take Messi 10 years to complete 1000 goals even if he scores all Barcelona goals by himself.

Make una no dey yarn nonsense for here abeg. I am not saying that Messi is the GOAT (Maradona still is), but make Pele no dey talk him 1000 goals nonsense for here. If thats the criteria, then Romario is the second greatest player of all time.

@semid4lyfe
Messi is gud, don't argue that, he's the world best and yes he deserves it but a legend? That i won't but sayin messi is ordinary outside barcelona's wrong. What has c. Ronaldo also achieve for his country?nutting. I think the problem with messi and argentina is the clueless coach called maradona, get them a good coach and u'd see what messi can do.

@ibime
U're not worth debating with, if it was easy to score goals then, how come no other striker scored same goals with him or even more than him? U claim there was no league in brazil then, now i shouldn't even argue with u because most of his goals were scored with the national team. If it was easy then, we should have had @ least 15 strikers with 1000 goals each.

honeric01:

@ibime
U're not worth debating with, if it was easy to score goals then, how come no other striker scored same goals with him or even more than him? U claim there was no league in brazil then, now i shouldn't even argue with u because most of his goals were scored with the national team. If it was easy then, we should have had @ least 15 strikers with 1000 goals each.

Are you sure Pele scored 1000 goals, or are you counting exhibition matches?

Please go and check the records. . . Pele has 656 competitive goals to his name, not 1000.

Esuebio has scored way more competitive goals than Pele. Ferenc Puskas has a better goal per game record, and he did that in a better league.

In Paulista Championship (against semi-Professionals mostly), Pele has 470 goals in 412 games. Na there him chop goals, come dey make mouth anyhow.

How many goals will Messi score if he plays against Tranmere and Havant and Waterlooville every week?

Imagine this one coming to tell me that most of Peles goals come with the national team. You should be repatriated to your village!

Go and sit down abeg, you have no argument.

@ibime
U're not worth debating with, if it was easy to score goals then, how come no other striker scored same goals with him or even more than him? U claim there was no league in brazil then, now i shouldn't even argue with u because most of his goals were scored with the national team. If it was easy then, we should have had @ least 15 strikers with 1000 goals each.

It was because Pele was playing against amateurs and semi professionals in Brazil. Fontaine scored 13 at a world cup in that same era, Gerd muller scored 10. why didnt Pele with his golden boot scratch that?

Fontaine scored 13 in one world cup, Muller scored 14 in 2, Pele managed 11 in 4 world cups. But when he gets to the state championship in Brazil he scores 1 million he even counted goals scored in The MLS.

I wonder how many of his 1000 he will score against Nigeria.

Afraid catch me oh. I think Pele is a great player and as a Man U fan should loathe Messi but I'd admit the guy is a brilliant player if you saw is goal against RM last Saturday you will know just how intelligent he plays against top ranked team players!

Bican, Josef with the highest number of recorded goals in officiated matches does not even get in the headlines as much as Pele.

This season, there is talk whether Chelsea can score 96 goals to become the highest scoring team in Premier league era, yet teams like Aston Villa scored 138 goals during Pele era.

Villa was a good team in that ERA they beat teams like Man United in FA cup final and Barcelona in a European super cup match. Them no be moin moin. But just like Liverpool, they have declined over the years.

Your analogy seems out of place.

I'm sick and tired about people saying that messi is the greatest football player in the world. Is this retardation or insanity? How could a normal human who knows alot about football be saying such sick statement.I'm not a big fan of messi but honestly this guy his good but not GREAT.How can people be comparing messi and PELE on the same level "abi oloshi nii gbo gbo yin nii" that's insanity,common folks we are talking about football great not clubside great.A person with common sense will never compare messi and pele.The GREAT PELE single-handedle won three world cups for brazil(facts are there).What major tournament has messi won for Argentina before we start saying such barbaric shiit like messi is better than MARADONA N PELE.Infact messi can never wear the same shoes as ZIDANE, EL PHENOMENON(aka RONALDO), ROMARIO, PLATINI list goes on.I'm not messi can never be the greatest baller but folks should stop comparing messi and pele together.Same thing on Eurosport they were asking" who is the greatest world cup player ever" i can believe that some people would be saying such thing like messi n gay ronaldo are one of the greatest world cup player   OMG.Messi stiil has a long way to go but pls we should stop that nonsense.

This debate is suppose to be b/w

Argentina and Brazil


In the history of nigeria football, which nigerian player don score 150 goals?

una dey here dey argue for another country,

rub-ish

Messi is still young and might surpass the great ones of football in future, for now i rate the great Ronaldo and Zizu ahead of him.it's only natural u know

Pele is a bitter old man.
He loves the limelight too much and is always insecure once someone good enough shows up.
He should stick to peddling Viagra.

The fastest car in d world is a MESSI-dis-BENZ !!!!!!

Save the fairytales abeg. . . . there was a lot more space for strikers in the old days, thats why matches regularly end up 7-3, 5-2, 8-1 etc. . .  .

No striker in the modern era can score the amount of goals those old guys did cos space is simply at a premium cos players run more than double the distance they used to, thus closing up any space. . .

Till infinity, no one will ever outscore Just Fontaine who scored 13 goals in 1958 World Cup or Gerd Mullers 10 goals in 1970. . . . thats how easy it was to score those days, so please save your "Thunder Balogun" stories about football being a difficult game in the old days. . . .

Just Fountain scored 13 goals in a WC (the only WC) that was played on league (round robin) format. Yea, football (wit advanced technology n way more money involved) is now in a more advanced form now but same way u lil kids say pele cant score as much is same way messi 9without all the high tech training facilities of 2day) cant do as much back in the days when strikers where not protected by referees like lil kids. i dont even think they wore shin guards then.


i see the fanatism that has come wit the popularity of supporting european teams has taken over alot of u lil kids. pele n messi dont belong in the same sentence talkless of being compared. point, blank, period.

Mudley313:

Just Fountain scored 13 goals in a WC that was played on league (round robin) format. Yea, football (wit advanced technology n way more money involved) is now in a more advanced form now but same way u lil kid[/b]s say pele cant score as much is same way messi 9without all the high tech training facilities of 2day) cant do as much back in the days when strikers where not protected by referees like [b]lil kids. i dont even think they wore shin guards then.


i see the fanatism that has come wit the popularity of supporting european teams has taken over alot of u lil kids. pele n messi dont belong in the same sentence talkless of being compared. point, blank, period.

Sorry sir,  but I'll call you agba'ya too. LOL

sulad82i:

Sorry sir, but I'll call you agba'ya too. LOL

n i'll call u olodo rapata

Mudley313:

n i'll call u olodo rapata

LOL

Mudley313:

Just Fountain scored 13 goals in a WC (the only WC) that was played on league (round robin) format. Yea, football (wit advanced technology n way more money involved) is now in a more advanced form now but same way u lil kids say pele cant score as much is same way messi 9without all the high tech training facilities of 2day) cant do as much back in the days when strikers where not protected by referees like lil kids. i dont even think they wore shin guards then.


i see the fanatism that has come wit the popularity of supporting european teams has taken over alot of u lil kids. pele n messi dont belong in the same sentence talkless of being compared. point, blank, period.

And I must say, I feel the same way about the comment you made. Pele is a very good player that achieved what he did in the era he was playing in and the atmosphere and caliber of players that go along with it. Messi is great, not by himself but in comparison to the other players in the game.

Tbh, Pele made a valid point.
Messi being hailed as the best ever is highly pre mature in my books.

Dont mind Pele, i dont think he can half of Messi's goal in this modern football. Its more easier in playing pants then.

I can hardly believe pele scred 1000 goals, did he count monkey post with it? pele scored 1068 goals not 1280 as someone said

rich_john:

I can hardly believe pele scred 1000 goals, did he count monkey post with it? pele scored 1068 goals not 1280 as someone said

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA

omodapson:

They said the same thing about Ronaldinho, where is he today? Not even relevant to be called into the Brazillian team. Let's give Messi the chance to really prove himself before we start calling him the greatest! Can he continue to play at the topmost level the way Zidane did even to the point of retirement?

.
wtf you guyz saying.most of those heroic goals pele scored for brazil.who created and gave the assist for pele have a simple finish.i thought it was garrincha.i think messi in sum ways has a unique ability(solo run) which is far better than anything pele did.just that messi has to show d extraordinary @ wc2010.

The GREAT PELE single-handedle won three world cups for brazil(facts are there).

The words of an ignoramus.

The best player of 1958 were Dida, Fontaine and Vava

The best player of 1962 was Garricha. Pele didnt have any impact in 1962 yet you claim he won 3 world cups singlehandedly

The best player of 1970 cant be Pele, We have Gerd Muller, Carlos Alberto, Rivelino, Jairzinho, Tostao, Gerson

An interesting topic that can be argued for as long as people care I believe!
Some points are worth noting sha;
without mentioning names,it appears a number of forumites started watching football in recent years,and rely so much on Wikipedia for their arguments.Not that this is bad,but 4 pple 2 say the videos from de past are grainy and so they don't or can't see the quality in games from way back until maybe the "era of DSTV in 9ja and Sky sports in UK/Eire" is nothing short of amusing!for those who care,try and get the film "boys from Brazil".Pele was trying to chip the GK in 1970(beckham did it about 10yrs ago,and pple were in awe!)Look at the free-kick goals in the tape and see what you think.my point is very little of the skills that u see now is completely new!By the way pple trying to use fostaine and Muller's WC scoring records to show how easy it was back then to score goals,what do they have to say to the fact the my idol;ronaldo became the first player 2 break the 6-goal barrier after many WC tournaments??does that mean that the WC held between 82 & 98 were harder??
As for Messi,any genuine football lover will agree that he is light years ahead of the current crop of players.
G.O.A.T??That's a big joke!!can he become the G.O.A.T?absolutely!
why do i say this;some of the posters have made the points already but i'll touch on some;Ronaldo a.k.a el fenomenon was described as the best 17 year old ever by Bobby Robson.look at his records in barca!then it was thought that he would be the greatest ever,but see what happened to him?what about Dinho?this guy got a standing ovation at the Bernabeu,he was passing the ball with his back,and you'd have thought he communicated with the ball in a special and unique language!!I have not mentioned the dean/emeritus professor a.k.a-Zizzou!please watch france vs portugal at Euro 2000(semis),or is it the UCL winner against leverkusen?(a goal that was celebrated as soon as the ball left the foot of Roberto Carlos!!).pardon my rambling,point is it's 2 premature to label Lionel the G.O.A.T.
Lastly Youtube videos are what they are-Clips!!if you have access,try to watch some of these games to fully appreciate all these players that have payed this great game of ours!G/nyt all

marco74:

An interesting topic that can be argued for as long as people care I believe!
Some points are worth noting sha;
without mentioning names,it appears a number of forumites started watching football in recent years,and rely so much on Wikipedia for their arguments.Not that this is bad,but 4 pple 2 say the videos from de past are grainy and so they don't or can't see the quality in games from way back until maybe the "era of DSTV in 9ja and Sky sports in UK/Eire" is nothing short of amusing!for those who care,try and get the film "boys from Brazil".Pele was trying to chip the GK in 1970(beckham did it about 10yrs ago,and pple were in awe!)Look at the free-kick goals in the tape and see what you think.my point is very little of the skills that u see now is completely new!By the way pple trying to use fostaine and Muller's WC scoring records to show how easy it was back then to score goals,what do they have to say to the fact the my idol;ronaldo became the first player 2 break the 6-goal barrier after many WC tournaments??does that mean that the WC held between 82 & 98 were harder??
As for Messi,any genuine football lover will agree that he is light years ahead of the current crop of players.
G.O.A.T??That's a big joke!!can he become the G.O.A.T?absolutely!
why do i say this;some of the posters have made the points already but i'll touch on some;Ronaldo a.k.a el fenomenon was described as the best 17 year old ever by Bobby Robson.look at his records in barca!then it was thought that he would be the greatest ever,but see what happened to him?what about Dinho?this guy got a standing ovation at the Bernabeu,he was passing the ball with his back,and you'd have thought he communicated with the ball in a special and unique language!!I have not mentioned the dean/emeritus professor a.k.a-Zizzou!please watch france vs portugal at Euro 2000(semis),or is it the UCL winner against leverkusen?(a goal that was celebrated as soon as the ball left the foot of Roberto Carlos!!).pardon my rambling,point is it's 2 premature to label Lionel the G.O.A.T.
Lastly Youtube videos are what they are-Clips!!if you have access,try to watch some of these games to fully appreciate all these players that have payed this great game of ours!G/nyt all

Chai marco74,

u deh write essay? If u put those words together it will be longer than the direction from Silver Spring, to Bethesda, back 495, to Greenbelt, through College Park, inside UMD _{My school}, back on East West hgwy, to Silver Spring. LOL

I dont think I want to read cos its toooooo long

Messi ain't even better than Ronaldo da Lima.He ain't a legend like Kempes was in Argentina.
What are we saying here?
Officially only two players can lay claim to G.O.A. T.:Pele and Maradona.
Until Messi proves he can do the biz at national level,there's nothing to debate.Remove Xavi-like midfielders and he's nealry ordinary.
@Ibime the headmaster/school teacher,
Still points to the fact that great players no longer come through like they used to.Footie these days is not even at the level of 10 years ago.
Players these days are mediocre and largely over-hyped and over-paid.Simple.