Seun:

Do Witches & Wizards Exist? I Don't Think So!

Seun:

If you have the power to make decrees that supernatural forces will enforce, you should decree the creation of a pill that quickly cures all types of cancer and whose side effects are very mild on the human body, by April 1. This will not only convince me; it will convince the whole world!

OtemAtum:
okay, maybe

I have never said that people can't encounter whatever is called the holy spirit, but having encounter with it cannot be a physical encounter whereby it appears to you physically on earth. Maybe you encountered it through emotion, etc. However, having an encounter with the so-called holy spirit does not still prove that the god you worship is the universal one because the holy spirit itself could be telling you a big lie. For example, this holy spirit was said to tell all the prophets in the bible a lie in the days of Ahab. So I don't see a reason why the holy spirit can't be equated to a lying spirit though.

Some realities are abstract, some are universally real. We are here to argue realities. If not, you guys won't be arguing the reality of the atheists with them, so don't take offence for challenging and criticising your reality. It is good for the brain.


Yes, everything in the universe started existing at the same time. As a consciousness, I actually existed before I was born by my parent into this world. Take Yeshua( whom I call Faulkin) as an example; before he was born into the earth, he is already existing. Same goes for everyone else and it validates the concept of reincarnation.
Time, age, etc becomes meaningless in some higher realms. It is here we see it as something meaningful. I will refer you to NDE's that were recorded. If you are in the Mercury, our age cannot be the same. There is even something called time dilation, it's deep.
Yes, the universe, according to the scientists, is 13.7billion years, is the same as saying that the time when the physical universe came about is 13.7billion years ago. Yes, the deeper universes (which I call the inner universes) are older than this physical universe you and I relate with. What we call 'the beginning' is not actually a finite beginning that started 6000years ago. It rather has no beginning and no end, same as energy(Existence, God, Matter) which was never created nor can be destroyed(science).


okay


Well...I didn't say that we are more powerful or we are equal in power, but I actually said that we cannot tell. For example, to you, Yahweh could be seen as more powerful than myself, but I see myself as more powerful than him. Same way a Christian would say that he is more powerful than anything Islamic, because he sees Islam as the religion of the devil. So as I said earlier, power equality or inequality is subjective.

jamescross:
you don't think so is there no one that is absolutely sure they don't exist.

i know they exist in history, books and stories. just like i have never seen a dinasour before, only read about it. the way their existence is so detailed i cant help but think they do

darkchild64:


we might as well say that for "God" soon is 1trillion years, funny thing is this,the Apocalypse that Christianity preaches was even borrowed from another religion,and even from the bible Jesus predicted that his coming would be within the lifetime of his disciples, please dispute this one let me take you to the bible

Ericsunday619:
if God truly exist, am very sure it's neither Yehwah or Allah

hopefulLandlord:


Being well detailed doesn't mean they exist, there are well detailed fictional people

jamescross:
out of curiosity pls tell me which religion?

The Jesus i read in the bible never gave the time he will return. that your last statement though

OtemAtum:
okay, maybe

I have never said that people can't encounter whatever is called the holy spirit, but having encounter with it cannot be a physical encounter whereby it appears to you physically on earth. Maybe you encountered it through emotion, etc. However, having an encounter with the so-called holy spirit does not still prove that the god you worship is the universal one because the holy spirit itself could be telling you a big lie. For example, this holy spirit was said to tell all the prophets in the bible a lie in the days of Ahab. So I don't see a reason why the holy spirit can't be equated to a lying spirit though.

Some realities are abstract, some are universally real. We are here to argue realities. If not, you guys won't be arguing the reality of the atheists with them, so don't take offence for challenging and criticising your reality. It is good for the brain.


Yes, everything in the universe started existing at the same time. As a consciousness, I actually existed before I was born by my parent into this world. Take Yeshua( whom I call Faulkin) as an example; before he was born into the earth, he is already existing. Same goes for everyone else and it validates the concept of reincarnation.
Time, age, etc becomes meaningless in some higher realms. It is here we see it as something meaningful. I will refer you to NDE's that were recorded. If you are in the Mercury, our age cannot be the same. There is even something called time dilation, it's deep.
Yes, the universe, according to the scientists, is 13.7billion years, is the same as saying that the time when the physical universe came about is 13.7billion years ago. Yes, the deeper universes (which I call the inner universes) are older than this physical universe you and I relate with. What we call 'the beginning' is not actually a finite beginning that started 6000years ago. It rather has no beginning and no end, same as energy(Existence, God, Matter) which was never created nor can be destroyed(science).


okay


Well...I didn't say that we are more powerful or we are equal in power, but I actually said that we cannot tell. For example, to you, Yahweh could be seen as more powerful than myself, but I see myself as more powerful than him. Same way a Christian would say that he is more powerful than anything Islamic, because he sees Islam as the religion of the devil. So as I said earlier, power equality or inequality is subjective.

darkchild64:


Zoroastrianism

“For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and will then repay every man according to his deeds. Truly I say to you, there are
some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom. “ (Matthew 16: 27, 28)

awesomeJ:

Not anymore. The time passed.
I was gonna make a decree on something that'll happen to you within a timeframe, and we'd have both agreed on the details of the circumstance. I would then have made the decree, and you would have experienced it. And that would have demonstrated to you that the supernatural exists. Because it would have been such forces that would have gone out to work out the manifestation of the decree, God having established it.

It would have surely worked as have several others I have made.

But why you didn't sign up for it yesterday is what I still don't understand. Now it's late already.
And before you start questioning why it can't be done at just any time, you should know like I have said that there are principles which govern things including spiritual things, and they must be rightly applied.

I WAITED TILL about 10:45pm last night. Deal would be off by 12:00am. I didn't have to mention that to you. it wasn't necessary.
So since something undefined to me kept you from picking up the challenge, I figure, God must have decided to save you a ton of troubles.

Not to worry though. Just one of these days. Could be years from now, when the atmosphere is right as it really was yesterday for me to present YOU another proof I will.

SO THIS THREAD IS OFFICIALLY OVER.

We'll continue the conversation on those other threads you make comments on.

Have a great week. God bless you.

jamescross:
so you're telling me that Jesus after saying he was going to die then rise, he died then rose, called his disciples together just to tell them a lie?


if that is so, then tell me why? would he do that?

greiboy:


1)No one ever said that the encounter with the holy spirit is physical

Encounter with the holy spirit doesn't prove that God exists but it raises the possibility that God exists. It satisfies the christian mind. It give us assurance that we communicate with a supreme entity that we cannot see.

in the Bible, God didn't deceive Ahab, but he allowed a spirit of deceit to deceive him. Ahab was already told by a servant of God (Micaiah) that he will lose the war but he refused. Ahab preferred false prophecies that will confirm what he wanted to hear (1king 22:18)

2) I am not disputing that we are here to argue realities. I am arguing against you dismissing an abstract reality similar to yours. I.e. people question the existence of God, just like people question the existence of spirit and ghost.

Therefore, the believe in spirits just like the believe in God cannot be called a universal reality


3) So if everything came into existence at the same time, why do we have time? You actually believe you have existed before your mom gave birth you ? I don't think science can prove that

Anyways, scientists believe the formation of the earth and other planets was a gradual process. They believed that after the sun was created, smaller particles came together to form the earth and other parts of our solar system as a result of gravity. So in essence, they believed it was a gradual process


Anyways, I have proven that my faith in God is just as good as your believe in spirits, which was my aim

stay blessed

chemystery:

I have also seen lots of Christians confessing Lucifer at the tail end of their lives

OtemAtum:


Do you know how many times scientists carry out experiments before they establish it as a fact? That thing had to have happen to you for at least six times before it can be established as a fact. As a matter of fact, whether spirit influences success or not, I won't advocate such ideology because it breeds laziness. Let the spirits be helping themselves to succeed in their spiritual realms, we will succeed if we follow our own principles of success.
Pls don't teach your children to fast and pray for academic success o. Tell them to read their books and be in a good psychological frame of mind instead. Peace.

chemystery:

Jesus failed to come in the generation he promised to come just like the bible verse darkchild64 gave you. Here is yet another bible verse:
Matthew 10:23

So, brace up and face reality.

P.S:
Another thing worth noting in that verse is that Jesus didn't even expect his disciples to take his message beyond the towns of Israel before he comes again. I don't know how some clowns now made it to reach us here.

Seun:

If you have the power to make decrees that supernatural forces will enforce, you should decree the creation of a pill that quickly cures all types of cancer and whose side effects are very mild on the human body, by April 1. This will not only convince me; it will convince the whole world!

jamescross:
chemystery
p.s:
mark 16:15 go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel.

in matt 10 Jesus sent 12 disciples specifically to the cities of israel, matt 11:1 when Jesus finished commanding the disciples.

are you really that bad in reading

if darkchild failed to read the continuation of matt 16:28 in 17:1-13.
how am i supposed to help both of you is it poor understanding or you just don't care.

even if reality is staring at you in the face you will not still realise it.

darkchild64:


the proof that we can not deny is a regrown limb,show us a video of an amputee getting a new limb and you win your argument

chemystery:


OK, you said nothing about Jesus promising to come before his disciples must have finished their work in the towns of Israel. Which implies that his coming will happen within their generation and when they're still alive. I assume you agree with me that he has totally failed in fulfilling that promise.

Meanwhile, here is another verse where Jesus asked his disciples to preach only to Israelites:

These twelve men were sent out by Jesus with the following instructions: “Do not go to any Gentile territory or any Samaritan towns. Instead, you are to go to the lost sheep of the people of Israel. Go and preach, ‘The Kingdom of heaven is near!’
Matthew 10:5‭-‬7 GNT

If he asked them to go to the world, and he had already promised his second coming before they even finish in the town of Israel, then which other time do they have to go into the world after his second coming?

You can't reconcile these discrepancies without coming into agreement that Jesus contradicted himself or that some parts of the bible should just be ignored?

LightSpirit:
ONCE UPON A TIME, two explorers came to a clearing in the jungle. It was a beautiful place -- thousands and thousands of flowers were blossoming. One of the explorers said, "There must be a gardener tending these flowers, looking after this plot." He was a believer.
The other disagreed and said, "I don't see any gardener here. I don't even see anybody's footprints. And there seems to be no point in making such a beautiful garden in such a dense and deep forest. Who will come to look? Who will enjoy these flowers? Nobody ever passes by. No, there is no gardener. The whole garden is just an accident."

They argued. The second was a nonbeliever, a skeptic. But there was no way to decide who was right, so they pitched their tent and waited for seven days. No gardener ever appeared. The skeptic was very happy. He said, "Look, there is no gardener. It has been proven now." But the believer said, "The gardener is invisible. He comes, but we cannot see him; he comes, but we cannot hear his footsteps. This garden is impossible without a gardener." So they set a barbed wire fence up around the garden. They electrified the wires, they brought bloodhounds, and they patrolled day and night. But nobody ever entered. No shriek was ever heard from the shock of the electricity flowing in the wires. The bloodhounds never gave a cry.

After seven days, the skeptic said. "Finished! Now it is proven beyond doubt that there is no gardener -- visible or invisible." But the believer was not convinced. He said, "The gardener is not only invisible, he is intangible. He has no scent. He is eternally elusive: you cannot catch him by electrified wires, you cannot catch him by bloodhounds, and our eyes cannot see him. But he is -- for certain he is." Now the skeptical friend, in great despair, said, "What happened to your original statement? What is the difference between an invisible, intangible, eternally elusive God, or gardener, and one which is just imaginary, or one which does not exist at all? What is the difference between the two?"

Believers go on talking about an invisible God, skeptical minds go on disproving any possibility of it, and they both seem to be right. Or, they both are wrong. The argument never comes to a conclusion. From the very beginning, the whole line of inquiry has taken the wrong route. Once you separate the gardener from the garden -- God from the creation -- the problem arises. Then it can never be settled. The garden is enough proof of the gardener. But the gardener is not separate. He does not come to tend the garden: He is in the garden; He IS the garden. He does not look after the flowers: He is IN the flowers; He IS the flowers. Not that HE is invisible -- He is visible, but visible as flowers. If you have an idea of God, you will never find Him. The very idea will become the barrier. Only those who have no idea of God come upon Him, or allow God to come upon themselves. If you have a certain idea, the very idea is going to be the wall, the brick wall, between you and the truth.

The believer was not wrong, but he took a wrong line of argument: he divided the gardener from the garden. The gardener cannot be proved because the gardener doesn't exist. A gardener separate from the garden is nonexistential. That's why the skeptical friend could argue. And his argument is valid -- valid not against God or the gardener; valid against the believer. The believer has taken the wrong argument.

To me, God is herenow. All that you see is God. God is not something beyond; God is something within. Or, if you like paradoxes, you can call God the within beyond or the beyond within. But God is intrinsic, God is the innermost core of existence. Unless you start in the right direction, you will go on missing. Never believe in a God who is separate from His creatures and the creation. He is not, He cannot be. He is one with it: He is in it, He is it. Once this is understood, you start flowing; your whole life becomes a prayer.

That is the basic message of Jesus. That's why he goes on saying that "God is my father." It is a way of saying what I am saying to you. Between the father and the son, or between the mother and the child, there is a continuity. The father goes on living in the son; the mother continues in the child. The son is nothing but an extension of the existence of the father -- an extended hand: as if the old body has become incapable of existing and is going to disappear, and the father has created a new body to live within. When Jesus says, "God is my father," he simply means that "I am continuous with Him; there has never been a separation. He is flowing in me: in my every cell He is flowing. Nowhere has there been a discontinuity." That is the whole meaning of it, but he uses the word 'father' because he is talking to very simple, unsophisticated people. He is talking to real people, not to plastic people; he is not talking in a university. He is talking to real people -- people who are alive. He uses the word 'father'. And it is beautiful in a way, because unless religion becomes personal, it remains a philosophy. When religion becomes personal, it becomes life. Religion is something to be lived, not something to brood about. It is something that should become a milieu around you; it is something that should become a continuous breathing, continuous beating of the heart. Religion is a way of life, a way of being. It has nothing to do with thinking. When Jesus says, "God is father," he means this existence is not alien, this existence is a home. You can rest in it, you can rely on it; you need not be afraid.

This is one of the most significant things to be understood, because modern man is so much afraid. Never before has that been so. Never before in the history of humankind has man been as afraid as he is now.

The world is a unity. Existence is a family; we exist together. Life is togetherness, and that togetherness is God. If you cannot feel that togetherness, you will feel alien and you will always be afraid. To a truly religious man(not the Christian, Muslim etc), fearlessness happens spontaneously. To a nonreligious man, fear is the only way to be. 'God, the father' can be translated. It means: existence is one; it is a togetherness. It is a harmony, not a conflict. We are members of each other. Whenever somebody dies, something in me also dies. Whenever a new child is born, something is born into me also. Whenever a new child is there, life becomes more alive through him -- life smiles. Whenever somebody dies, there are tears. It has to be so, because I come out of life; I go back into life. Life was trying to do something through me. Everybody is a messenger; everybody is a messiah; everybody has a destiny to fulfill. And until you fulfill that destiny, you will never feel fulfilled. You can have much money, but fulfillment will not come through it. You can have much sex; fulfillment will not come through it. You can have much power; fulfillment will not come through it.

Fulfillment comes only when you have fulfilled a certain destiny that you were carrying, that was coded within you, that was deep in your blueprint. Unless you have become that for which you were made -- unless you have attained to being -- you will never be fulfilled. Fulfillment is peace, fulfillment is bliss, fulfillment is contentment. And only a fulfilled heart can pray, because only a fulfilled heart can be grateful and can feel the grace descending: the spirit of God, like a dove.

darkchild64:


a matter of time before what happens,didn't the bible say that Jesus is coming SOON,now 2000 years has passed and he is still coming soon,abeg I don't want to abuse anybody or religion,allow us atheists to be

aboyaji:
You have a point. I like your write up.

LightSpirit:
ONCE UPON A TIME, two explorers came to a clearing in the jungle. It was a beautiful place -- thousands and thousands of flowers were blossoming. One of the explorers said, "There must be a gardener tending these flowers, looking after this plot." He was a believer.
The other disagreed and said, "I don't see any gardener here. I don't even see anybody's footprints. And there seems to be no point in making such a beautiful garden in such a dense and deep forest. Who will come to look? Who will enjoy these flowers? Nobody ever passes by. No, there is no gardener. The whole garden is just an accident."

They argued. The second was a nonbeliever, a skeptic. But there was no way to decide who was right, so they pitched their tent and waited for seven days. No gardener ever appeared. The skeptic was very happy. He said, "Look, there is no gardener. It has been proven now." But the believer said, "The gardener is invisible. He comes, but we cannot see him; he comes, but we cannot hear his footsteps. This garden is impossible without a gardener." So they set a barbed wire fence up around the garden. They electrified the wires, they brought bloodhounds, and they patrolled day and night. But nobody ever entered. No shriek was ever heard from the shock of the electricity flowing in the wires. The bloodhounds never gave a cry.

After seven days, the skeptic said. "Finished! Now it is proven beyond doubt that there is no gardener -- visible or invisible." But the believer was not convinced. He said, "The gardener is not only invisible, he is intangible. He has no scent. He is eternally elusive: you cannot catch him by electrified wires, you cannot catch him by bloodhounds, and our eyes cannot see him. But he is -- for certain he is." Now the skeptical friend, in great despair, said, "What happened to your original statement? What is the difference between an invisible, intangible, eternally elusive God, or gardener, and one which is just imaginary, or one which does not exist at all? What is the difference between the two?"

Believers go on talking about an invisible God, skeptical minds go on disproving any possibility of it, and they both seem to be right. Or, they both are wrong. The argument never comes to a conclusion. From the very beginning, the whole line of inquiry has taken the wrong route. Once you separate the gardener from the garden -- God from the creation -- the problem arises. Then it can never be settled. The garden is enough proof of the gardener. But the gardener is not separate. He does not come to tend the garden: He is in the garden; He IS the garden. He does not look after the flowers: He is IN the flowers; He IS the flowers. Not that HE is invisible -- He is visible, but visible as flowers. If you have an idea of God, you will never find Him. The very idea will become the barrier. Only those who have no idea of God come upon Him, or allow God to come upon themselves. If you have a certain idea, the very idea is going to be the wall, the brick wall, between you and the truth.

The believer was not wrong, but he took a wrong line of argument: he divided the gardener from the garden. The gardener cannot be proved because the gardener doesn't exist. A gardener separate from the garden is nonexistential. That's why the skeptical friend could argue. And his argument is valid -- valid not against God or the gardener; valid against the believer. The believer has taken the wrong argument.

To me, God is herenow. All that you see is God. God is not something beyond; God is something within. Or, if you like paradoxes, you can call God the within beyond or the beyond within. But God is intrinsic, God is the innermost core of existence. Unless you start in the right direction, you will go on missing. Never believe in a God who is separate from His creatures and the creation. He is not, He cannot be. He is one with it: He is in it, He is it. Once this is understood, you start flowing; your whole life becomes a prayer.

That is the basic message of Jesus. That's why he goes on saying that "God is my father." It is a way of saying what I am saying to you. Between the father and the son, or between the mother and the child, there is a continuity. The father goes on living in the son; the mother continues in the child. The son is nothing but an extension of the existence of the father -- an extended hand: as if the old body has become incapable of existing and is going to disappear, and the father has created a new body to live within. When Jesus says, "God is my father," he simply means that "I am continuous with Him; there has never been a separation. He is flowing in me: in my every cell He is flowing. Nowhere has there been a discontinuity." That is the whole meaning of it, but he uses the word 'father' because he is talking to very simple, unsophisticated people. He is talking to real people, not to plastic people; he is not talking in a university. He is talking to real people -- people who are alive. He uses the word 'father'. And it is beautiful in a way, because unless religion becomes personal, it remains a philosophy. When religion becomes personal, it becomes life. Religion is something to be lived, not something to brood about. It is something that should become a milieu around you; it is something that should become a continuous breathing, continuous beating of the heart. Religion is a way of life, a way of being. It has nothing to do with thinking. When Jesus says, "God is father," he means this existence is not alien, this existence is a home. You can rest in it, you can rely on it; you need not be afraid.

This is one of the most significant things to be understood, because modern man is so much afraid. Never before has that been so. Never before in the history of humankind has man been as afraid as he is now.

The world is a unity. Existence is a family; we exist together. Life is togetherness, and that togetherness is God. If you cannot feel that togetherness, you will feel alien and you will always be afraid. To a truly religious man(not the Christian, Muslim etc), fearlessness happens spontaneously. To a nonreligious man, fear is the only way to be. 'God, the father' can be translated. It means: existence is one; it is a togetherness. It is a harmony, not a conflict. We are members of each other. Whenever somebody dies, something in me also dies. Whenever a new child is born, something is born into me also. Whenever a new child is there, life becomes more alive through him -- life smiles. Whenever somebody dies, there are tears. It has to be so, because I come out of life; I go back into life. Life was trying to do something through me. Everybody is a messenger; everybody is a messiah; everybody has a destiny to fulfill. And until you fulfill that destiny, you will never feel fulfilled. You can have much money, but fulfillment will not come through it. You can have much sex; fulfillment will not come through it. You can have much power; fulfillment will not come through it.

Fulfillment comes only when you have fulfilled a certain destiny that you were carrying, that was coded within you, that was deep in your blueprint. Unless you have become that for which you were made -- unless you have attained to being -- you will never be fulfilled. Fulfillment is peace, fulfillment is bliss, fulfillment is contentment. And only a fulfilled heart can pray, because only a fulfilled heart can be grateful and can feel the grace descending: the spirit of God, like a dove.

darkchild64:


a matter of time before what happens,didn't the bible say that Jesus is coming SOON,now 2000 years has passed and he is still coming soon,abeg I don't want to abuse anybody or religion,allow us atheists to be

darkchild64:


Zoroastrianism

“For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and will then repay every man according to his deeds. Truly I say to you, there are
some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom. “ (Matthew 16: 27, 28)

DavilleBadt:
Seun,
Seun,
Seun.
The time is coming when u will understand all these things.
Death is inevitable and when it comes u will understand.
Is it not better to believe there is a God and after everything you make Heaven than u not believing and u later regret and go to hell.
Think about this words.

If u like ban me. I have nothing to lose.

chemystery:


So the essence of belief in god is not necessarily because it exist but because there is a reward for believing. Don't you think an omniscient god will know you are believing just for the reward of making heaven? And since there are over 4000 gods worshipped by humanity, are you advising we just believe in any one to be on a safer side? What if we end up choosing the wrong god or an invented god over the one true god? Won't it infuriate the true god? Won't the true god prefer we believe in no god than believing in in the wrong one?

So tell me, how do you differentiate a true god from an invented god?

chemystery:


So the essence of belief in god is not necessarily because it exist but because there is a reward for believing. Don't you think an omniscient god will know you are believing just for the reward of making heaven? And since there are over 4000 gods worshipped by humanity, are you advising we just believe in any one to be on a safer side? What if we end up choosing the wrong god or an invented god over the one true god? Won't it infuriate the true god? Won't the true god prefer we believe in no god than believing in in the wrong one?

So tell me, how do you differentiate a true god from an invented god?