@image.
Read my long post above again more carefully and try to respond to it. Many people in debates like this think its about how much scripture you can produce to support what you're saying. But its not so. The Word of God doesn't work that way. The truth is One. It can't be this and again be that. There has to be harmony.

Bigbashiru
You say you are an agnostic, then neutral? And you call others enemy of the cross? Are you joking or on medication? And the passage I quoted is irrelevant?
Little wonder you ooze contradictions.
You have little or no say in this, for you know not what to say

Image123

Does not the Bible say that Esau & Jacob before they had done anything good or bad, that God loved one and hated the other? Go figure.

toluxa1
A certain you on post 7 talked about 'proper Bible study and comparing scripture with scripture. That you later commented on babes in bible study. But now, scriptures shouldn't be produced to support what I'm saying, seeing it disharmonises your views. You're one funny set. That's why I loved this thread.
Was Joshua an alien, not a man, when he CHOSE with his family(we will) to serve God. I just read your 'long post', I hope you've been reading mine? We are not zombies, we are created in God's image. We have a will(WHOSOEVER WILLS,let him take the water of life FREELY).revelation 22

"Depart from me ye cursed into everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels"

Matthew 13

The Parable of the Weeds Explained
36Then he left the crowd and went into the house. His disciples came to him and said, "Explain to us the parable of the weeds in the field."

37He answered, "The one who sowed the good seed is the Son of Man. 38The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one, 39and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels.

40"As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. 41The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. 42[b]They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.[/b] 43Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.

@IMAGE
Ok. Now I didn't say you shouldn't quote scriptures. If you didn't get my point, this is it- That it shouldn't be a case where I quote two scriptures and you reply with two other scriptures, and I reply again with two other scriptures without addressing the former scriptures quoted. That's what I discover a lot do here (notice I wasn't totally addressing you). If you notice most of the scriptures I have quoted and verses that explains the verses you quote. But you ignor mine and either bring another one or repeat the same thing (just as you have done in your last post). Now to your last post, I will repeat again that once is comes to salvation, our will is TOTALLY CONTROLLED BY GOD.[b] "It is God that worketh in you both to WILL and to do. . . ."[\b].

Read John 1:12 [b]and 13[\b]. Romans 9:16 says [b] it is not of him that willeth [\b] nor of him that runneth, but of God that showeth mercy.
This is all pointing to the fact that as far as salvation is concerned, IT (including out will) IS ALL ABOUT GOD (lest no man boost).

@BIG.B Agnostic? Not quite sure I know exactly what that means but sounds like Atheism to me. Now thats totally off. I don't attend any church (the church is dead- matter for another day) but agnost. . . no no no. You say its because of false doctrines. Doesn't sound like a bright excuse to me. The false doctrines are coming from men and not the bible so if you know the truth then why. . . . Well let me not say too much, maybe I don't really know what that means sha (I'm just 20- lol)

@tolu
I am not actually agnostic; I was just playing devils advocate - I am a dedicated Christian determined to eliminate false doctrines of free will choice in salvation. I hope I have been able to do that with this thread.

NB: Agnostic means ppl who acknowledge a God, but do not actively live by the God.

@Image123
Further Proof: Paul, speaking by the Holy Ghost on pentecost after being asked why the disciples were speaking in other tongues said: "In the last days I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh, "

Then He said this:

""For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call"

The promise is therefore not for the world/ all but for the Body of Christ.

Again in Isaiah, "He was bruised for our iniquities". "Our" is not "all".

Such a great thread and written with the purpose I had in mind when I created the thread,'' Can A Believer Lose Salvation?''.
Toluxa1, thanks were it not for your reference to it, I would still be ignorant of the existence of this thread.

Image123

Please read, ''The Bondage Of The Will'' (http://www.truecovenanter.com/truelutheran/luther_bow.html ) by Martin Luther (the man who sparked off the reformation). It will help you a lot, especially with such passages as you quote, which says what man ought to do, man's responsibility.The abridged version is at http://www.reformedreader.org/bow.htm .

BigBashiru
Posts: 53

Not Ordained To Life Eternal
« on: April 26, 2010, 02:11 PM »

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Contrary to the thinking of false teachers and false prophets on this forum, the Bible is very clear that not everybody is ordained to eternal life & therefore not everybody will be saved. Wicked freewill apologists preach the anti-Bible doctrine that Christ is preached so that men out of their "freewill" "accept" Christ. What these wicked men dont understand is that the names of everybody that must be saved was written before they were born according to the everlasting covenant. men must stop spreading the lie that everybody will get saved.

The 'freewill' teaching is false. A lot of teachings are based on it and are false also.Great thread!

Image123

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You must be ignorant to think that everybody will get saved. Some people were needed by an oil company recently. It was already ordained that not everyone will be accepted, there was a limited number of positions to be filled. Right before applications, everything had been prepared. That's planning. Only a lazy bone will give up with the excuse that not everybody will be picked, the company already knows what/who they're looking for. Go figure if you can.


You are both agreed that not all will be saved ,so why the talk of someone being ignorant?
You are here again with yet another false analogy. So you now give Man the power of ordaining? Do you not know that what is for-ordained or ordained must necessary come to pass? If the company gets burnt on the eve of the interview, can it still take place? Does the management know the persons that would attend the interview before the advert is placed? Will they take applicants by grace (without merit)? If yes, what’s the aim of the interview?
Believers still preach the gospel even though not all are ordained because the bible tells them to and it is the means by which God calls the elects (those ordained, fore-ordained, predestinated, appointed) to salvation. The invitation (message) is for all men but only the elects can receive it.

John 6:44,66;Matt.11:25-27.

Posted by: Image123
Insert Quote
toluxa1
I'm yet to say that we have ability to choose God. You have added 'God' of your volition. I said we have ability to choose and quoted scriptures to that effect(Proverbs 1v29). Another says 'choose you this day who you will serve'. Except this scriptures are wrong and you are right sha. But Bible clearly tells us that we have a say in this matter. We're not programmed zombies, programmed for heaven/hell. Whosoever WILL, let him take the water of life FREELY


What difference is there between the ability to choose God and to choose to believe in Him?

Image123:

toluxa1
Rewind come back small. I quoted John 3v16 saying WHOSOEVER believes in him will not perish. I implied that anyone/everyone can have a go at salvation. I didn't say all will be saved, instead ANYONE/WHOSOEVER believes, not some 'chosen' sect.
Then came someone saying whosoever means 'not all' or as many as. That's why I put the two words in place of WHOSOEVER in John 3v16 to show how different they sound. They sure didn't look synonymous in that passage.

Everyone who believes will be saved , but not all CAN believe. I refer you to Rom.9 especially
15-18. Fallen Man's ability does not match his responsibility.He is required to believe, but he does not have the ability to do so, except he is aided by the Spirit.
''And so God's blessings are not given just because someone decides to have them or works hard to get them.They are given because God takes pity on those he wants to''. (Rom.9:16,TLB).