superhumanist:



Stop repeating lies and revelling in ignorance.

There were freethinkers in the slavery abolition movement. Stop telling lies as if it was only christians that worked against slavery]

Apart from people like Ingersoll (an agnostic) who only voiced out after Christians led the front, please mention 10 other atheists who were slavery abolitionists. Don't forget agnostics are not even atheists but I give you the grace, you can also mention agnostics.

I can give you a list of 500 christian abolitionists by just a few clicks online

superhumanist:


2. There were also many christians who wanted slavery to remain the status quo. There was even a war to keep slavery in America.

this was mentioned and well explained in one of the points of the op. Don't just be in a hurry to refute anything Christianity, calm down and read. Don't develop high blood pressure for a God "that does not exist"

superhumanist:



3. In fact, christians enjoyed black slaves for over 300 years before abolishing it. So please, you cannot eat your cake and have it. Christianity supported slavery since the early catholic church- that is over 500 years and after enjoying it thoroughly, you want to take the glory for ending it.

The whole world enjoyed slavery since the beginning of humanity,

Many Christians used their worldview to justify slavery just the same way the pharisees tried to use the laws of moses to justify divorce and Jesus rebuked them.
I pointed out in the op that the christian abolitionists were infact the majority and they were bible believing Christians inspired by Christianity.

Christians can take the glory for ending the transatlantic slave trade, history is on our side.

winner01:
Of course, any rebuttal against atheism is false

firstly you have no proof of this.

Secondly, human logic always acts in the best interest of individual humans. And this has always been proven to be selfishly oriented. For instance, why won't I rob a bank if it will make me richer

Human empathy is also not a prerequisite for morality. All the humans who enslaved Africans had empathy, yet they didn't deem it fit to eradicate slavery until Christians took a stand.

Na you know. Atheists are atheists. Whatever sugar you wish to coat it with is your headache.

Its not a contradiction. Its only proof that morality is innate, it is god-given. You must steal from God while still claiming the God does not exist. This is the only justification for anything condemned by an atheist. I pointed out all these in the op, you people don't read.





Loo, you've said nothing dude. Why is slavery wrong if my actions are calculated to satisfy me, did your grandma fix a standard for my morality or that of everyone on earth

You have started being silly again. How can you say that all atheists are the same? Are all theists the same? Are all theists christians? Are all atheists like Chairman MAO Zedong? Why do you just want to be ignorant?


Oga, morality is a function of both logic and empathy. Both are needed for balance. Logic is true but cold and calculating while empathy balances the cold side of logic with love.


To illustrate this and also show why religion and god are useless when it comes to morality, I have an example for you-

WHY IS IT WRONG TO RA.PE A LADY?

1. BECAUSE IT WILL HURT HER PHYSICALLY AND MENTALLY
2. BECAUSE THE BIBLE SAYS RAPE IS BAD
3. BECAUSE YAHWEH DOES NOT LIKE IT
4. RAPE IS NOT WRONG. MORALITY IS AN ILLUSION



THE CLEAR ANSWER IS NUMBER 1. YOU WOULD EVEN RELY ON THE BIBLE FOR MORALITY BECAUSE THE BIBLE IS SILENT ON MANY ISSUES.

superhumanist:



You have started being silly again. How can you say that all atheists are the same? Are all theists the same? Are all theists christians? Are all atheists like Chairman MAO Zedong? Why do you just want to be ignorant?

No need to call me names, I wonder why you are angry.
All atheists are not like Mao ze dong but 95% of atheists who have found their way to political power ended up like Mao ze dong. You're calling me names just because a thread hurts you, I'm sure of you find your way to the presidency of Nigeria, you will be like Mao ze dong.

superhumanist:



Oga, morality is a function of both logic and empathy. Both are needed for balance. Logic is true but cold and calculating while empathy balances the cold side of logic with love.

This is still just words, no proof.

It is logically right to kill a baby with down syndrome but morally wrong. I can logically rob an old lady of 10 million naira if I'm sure I'll get away with it.

Empathy is simply a construct of humanity according to most atheists. If you claim that empathy isbinnate, they it mean you're admitting that humans are not just most bone bags dancing to the tune of their DNA.

superhumanist:


To illustrate this and also show why religion and god are useless when it comes to morality, I have an example for you-

WHY IS IT WRONG TO RA.PE A LADY?

1. BECAUSE IT WILL HURT HER PHYSICALLY AND MENTALLY
2. BECAUSE THE BIBLE SAYS RAPE IS BAD
3. BECAUSE YAHWEH DOES NOT LIKE IT
4. RAPE IS NOT WRONG. MORALITY IS AN ILLUSION



THE CLEAR ANSWER IS NUMBER 1. YOU WOULD EVEN RELY ON THE BIBLE FOR MORALITY BECAUSE THE BIBLE IS SILENT ON MANY ISSUES.

This is a wrong illustration . Most Christians don't rely on the Bible for many issues, nor are they instructed to rely on the bible for such issues.
Rape is bad because almost every human on earth knows it's wrong to hurt a fellow human. The question I'm asking is not whether rape is wrong. I'm asking you to justify why rape is wrong.


If I have the chance to rape a lady I've been wanting to have and I know I can get a way with it, why won't I go for it considering that my actions will satisfy me? This is simple logic.

Also several famous and outspoken atheists have opined that rape is perfectly normal and that we are biological animals. Many atheists who don't believe this "cold truth" are simply borrowing from God or whatever religion they were brought up with.

winner01:


Also several famous and outspoken atheists have opined that rape is perfectly normal and that we are biological animals. Many atheists who don't believe this "cold truth" are simply borrowing from God or whatever religion they were brought up with.

Name 2 famous athiest that have opined that RAPE is perfectly normal. Just give me their statement on RAPE being perfectly normal.

winner01:


If I have the chance to rape a lady I've been wanting to have and I know I can get a way with it, why won't I go for it considering that my actions will satisfy me? This is simple logic.

Everybody including you will do things so long as they know they will get away with it. God can not and will never make you not to do anything you know you will get away with. In fact people use God to do things b cause they know they will get away with it once they invoke God.

What stops people from doing evil is the fear of being caught and the punishment or shame that comes along with it and not because of God.

Societies have punishment for people to serve as a deterrent. If God and morality is all that humans need to act right no country will have a police force, judges and other law enforcement officers. That is enough to show you that people will always do things regardless of God or no God so long as they will get away with it .

winner01:
Good God.

What is God in a God that commands people to buy foreign slaves and treat them as property to be passed on as inheritance to their children?

However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46)

winner01:

7. Christianity was present in Africa prior to the trans-atlantic slave trade
Many critics push that Christianity is a slave religion and if not because of Slavery, there will be nothing like christianity in Africa. They go ahead to mock christians by saying that chistians are still slaves (mentally) because they retain the christian ideology mostly spread by slave traders.
Some Christian apologists have responded by saying that slavery was Gods way of bringing christianity to Africa. I'd like to say that both the critics and apologists are incorrect to a large extent.

We must be historically informed that the above is inaccurate, Christianity existed in Africa before the transatlantic slave trade.

Many African empires were conquered by white slave traders because of the disparity in the weapons employed by both sides. Historians record that many Africans relied solely on their spiritual system to combat invaders while invaders (white supremacists) relied on their arms and ammunitions. As a result, many African empires fell and were at the mercy of the invaders.

Ethiopia however was not completely dominated and conquered, this was because King Menelik II understood that he needed more than just spirituality.
www.nairaland.com/attachments/6897159_img20180328170108_jpeg07a4430993f28dc525fe2f91bfdbfdf9
www.nairaland.com/attachments/6897151_img20180328172116_jpeg5a9a076ba99849937201c226411ea404


He knew he had to be practical and so he got guns, guns that rivalled that of the italian invaders. During the faceoff, the Ethiopians used their landscape to their advantage. Some historians concede that Italy underestimated the Ethiopians and their military genius and that this led to the fall of the italians.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/6897158_img20180328172034_jpegc2b532d58ffefbf0e72d41d5c3aec0f2
www.nairaland.com/attachments/6897160_img20180328170112_jpeg2d4cbe94bb7446ab2468a8053647674e

Interestingly, the western media began to portray king Menelik II as a white man because of this feat. He was depicted in pictures and cartoons as a white man because they didn't want the world to see that europe was defeated by a African man. Many historians also propose that Jesus Christ is also depicted in a similar way.
www.nairaland.com/attachments/6897152_img20180328172055_jpeg633a21aa3f67a518466d29c76866ba71


To cut this story short, Christianity was already present in Ethiopia. Hence the elitist modern Pan-african belief that Jesus Christ is a foreign God is quite misinformed.
In northern African territories under the Roman empire (Tunisia, Algeria, Morocco, Egypt and Lybia), Christianity was the predominant religion centuries before colonialism.

Ethiopia which also was not colonized has Christianity centuries before the colonizers came to Africa. Some of the Bishops at the First council of Nicea(which agreed on the uniform Christian biblical doctrine were from Africa I.e the church of Alexandria, the lybian pentapolis. Again centuries before colonialism.

In addition some historians believe that Matthew, one of the 12 disciples found his death while evangelizing in ethiopia, Africa centuries before colonialism.

Many Historians also believe that Jesus Christ lived his early years in African territories centuries prior to the white man's invasion. They have suggested that Christ's race and skin colour was anything but white.

Truly said.

Firearms were present in Ethiopia from 16th century onwards and Ethiopians understood how firearms and other modern weapons are important if you want to keep your independence. This was what Ethiopians jokily said after the war,
“What kinds of fools are they, in Europe? Why do they make their instruments of death and give them to us? With guns which they have brought, with cartridges they have brought, Menelik has roasted and exploded the foreign barley!“

I

superhumanist:



This your point 11 is laughable and false.

1) Morality comes from 2 sources; human logic and human empathy. God is not necessary for morality. In fact, religious people and countries are usually the most confused about morality.

The idea that humans are born naturally evil (and can only be moral if they become christians) is one of the more freaky things Christianity teaches. Some people like the OP, if they stopped believing for just one minute, would start raping and killing people. The truth is that even in the most christianless societies there is morality. You dont need any god to be moral. NONE. Even a 2 yr old child who has no idea who God is can tell that certain things are wrong. Even if you took a group of children (who have not heard about God) and left them in an island, they would not start killing each other. They would establish their own moral standards without God (or Satan)

winner01:


An atheist never thinks he/she was indoctrinated with morality

Everyone in some way is indoctrinated with morality thats why we tend to have moral standards of where we were born. This has been the case for millenia before anyone dreamt of God, Jesus, Allah, Mohammed etc. Even 30,000 yrs ago it was still the same. Its about empathy (mostly) and logic. Religion is just a joyrider that wants to take credit for something that nature itself demands of any species to succeed.

TayserMahiri:


Everyone in some way is indoctrinated with morality thats why we tend to have moral standards of where we were born. This has been the case for millenia before anyone dreamt of God, Jesus, Allah, Mohammed etc. Even 30,000 yrs ago it was still the same. Its about empathy (mostly) and logic. Religion is just a joyrider that wants to take credit for something that nature itself demands of any species to succeed.

Nature demands empathy for any species to succeed?

When was this time before anyone dreamt of God? You do know belief in some form of God is as old as humanity itself?

TayserMahiri:


The idea that humans are born naturally evil (and can only be moral if they become christians) is one of the more freaky things Christianity teaches.

Bullshit!. No reasonable religion even teaches this. Y'all just cook up stupid things to feel good. Did I not mention in the op that several atheists are even more moral than Christians?

TayserMahiri:

Some people like the OP, if they stopped believing for just one minute, would start raping and killing people. The truth is that even in the most christianless societies there is morality. You dont need any god to be moral. NONE. Even a 2 yr old child who has no idea who God is can tell that certain things are wrong. Even if you took a group of children (who have not heard about God) and left them in an island, they would not start killing each other. They would establish their own moral standards without God (or Satan)

Morality is innate, god-given. Something that DNA, bones and all our biological make-up can't provide.
No one would kill anyone because they don't want to kill anyone. The problem arises when people want to kill people, then you realize that both you and the killer have equal rights to act in your personal interests, in this "inconsequential universe".

winner01:
Nature demands empathy for any species to succeed?

When was this time before anyone dreamt of God? You do know belief in some form of God is as old as humanity itself?

Yeah, most species thrive on empathy. To take care of their young, close relatives in packs etc. I know that sounds like rocket science.

You do know God (Yahweh) isnt that old? He is barely 3000 years old. Unless you provide contrary evidence. I thought it was standard practice to use G o d in reference to Yahweh and god for all others unless you are saying they are all equal, in which case I totally agree because it is true.

winner01:
Bullshit!. No reasonable religion even teaches this. Y'all just cook up stupid things to feel good. Did I not mention in the op that several atheists are even more moral than Christians?

Morality is innate, god-given. Something that DNA, bones and all our biological make-up can't provide.
No one would kill anyone because they don't want to kill anyone. The problem arises when people want to kill people, then you realize that both you and the killer have equal rights to act in your personal interests, in this "inconsequential universe".

Which god gives this god-given morality? Is it RA, Tenjin, Shiva, Yemoja? Which one?

When people want to kill, they will kill regardless. In fact they will justify it with God in some cases. And the good book comes in handy in such situations. Its even worse when they know they will just repent. But since you know very well that if you kill you will go to jail, or be killed in revenge. You will be less likely to kill. Did you just agree with the fact that logic plays the major role in such a scenario and religion is just secondary (joyrider) in the highlighted part? I bet you did

TayserMahiri:


Yeah, most species thrive on empathy. To take care of their young, close relatives in packs etc. I know that sounds like rocket science.

Most species thrive on empathy and this is what you think the basis for morality is?

If morality is based on ethics, does that not mean your subjective experience (which differs from mine) is the basis for your ethical behavior?

What is the universal standard of what is proper empathy and what is not?

Or if you propose collective empathy, what if what one person says is proper empathy does not agree with another person? So what happens then?

TayserMahiri:

You do know God (Yahweh) isnt that old? He is barely 3000 years old. Unless you provide contrary evidence. I thought it was standard practice to use G o d in reference to Yahweh and god for all others unless you are saying they are all equal, in which case I totally agree because it is true.

Stop messing around, you referred to a time when no one ever dreamt of God, Jesus, mohammed , Allah etc, and I'm putting it to you that when was this time when humanity was void of a belief in the supernatural?

TayserMahiri:



Which god gives this god-given morality? Is it RA, Tenjin, Shiva, Yemoja? Which one?

Many of your friends don't like to play the 5000+ gods card with me because they already know my response. The God that gives you headache, that gives you sleepless nights. The God that prompted your reply on this thread.

I see people all over the world who die for a certain god, they abduct girls, blow up buildings and threaten sovereign nations because of this god (even our country Nigeria), I see next to no threads on this god neither do I see atheists trying to convince the followers of this god which otherwise may be easily brainwashed into being terrorists. Does this mean atheists don't concern themselves with a lie?

TayserMahiri:


When people want to kill, they will kill regardless. In fact they will justify it with God in some cases. And the good book comes in handy in such situations. Its even worse when they know they will just repent. But since you know very well that if you kill you will go to jail, or be killed in revenge. You will be less likely to kill. Did you just agree with the fact that logic plays the major role in such a scenario and religion is just secondary (joyrider) in the highlighted part? I bet you did

of course people will kill for their own interests if they know they will get away with it.

You're missing the point here, what is the basis for these man-made laws?.

You think its logical for those who embezzle government funds to pay dearly for it, and we have many embezzlers in Nigeria. Why do you think its wrong to embezzle? Is this empathy playing a role? Do you realize your idea of empathy may differ from that of an average Nigerian politician?

winner01:
Most species thrive on empathy and this is what you think the basis for morality is?

If morality is based on ethics, does that not mean your subjective experience (which differs from mine) is the basis for your ethical behavior?

What is the universal standard of what is proper empathy and what is not?

Or if you propose collective empathy, what if what one person says is proper empathy does not agree with another person? So what happens then?


Stop messing around, you referred to a time when no one ever dreamt of God, Jesus, mohammed , Allah etc, and I'm putting it to you that when was this time when humanity was void of a belief in the supernatural?

Many of your friends don't like to play the 5000+ gods card with me because they already know my response. The God that gives you headache, that gives you sleepless nights. The God that prompted your reply on this thread.

I see people all over the world who die for a certain god, they abduct girls, blow up buildings and threaten sovereign nations because of this god (even our country Nigeria), I see next to no threads on this god neither do I see atheists trying to convince the followers of this god which otherwise may be easily brainwashed into being terrorists. Does this mean atheists don't concern themselves with a lie?



of course people will kill for their own interests if they know they will get away with it.

You're missing the point here, what is the basis for these man-made laws?.

You think its logical for those who embezzle government funds to pay dearly for it, and we have many embezzlers in Nigeria. Why do you think its wrong to embezzle? Is this empathy playing a role? Do you realize your idea of empathy may differ from that of an average Nigerian politician?

There is nothing like universal standard for empathy or morality. That is your construct. Think of it this way, there is a capsizing ship with many people including you, two of your younger sisters and your friend. You have just one life bag that can only carry three of you. If you were four guys, one MUST DIE. (its a hypothetical situation dont start telling me no they can all live). Three is the maximum number beyond which the bag is useless. So, as the elder one, you somehow gotta make the decision. I know you'd choose yourself, and your two sisters and let the friend die. That thing that would make you do that is not religion but subjective empathy. And it varies from person to person. Some people like me would choose to die and save both sisters and the friend. Its SUBJECTIVE. In fact, religion is a subjective experience. If for some reason I survive the capsizing boat (I was to drown, remember) and the reason for my survival is that a shark (or dolphin) saved my ass, I would see it as empathy from the shark while you would see it as a miracle straight from heaven. Why for me? Because the same lord who reached down from heaven had the synergy to save everyone on the ship by sending a thousand sharks to rescue everyone, but he didnt! So, its luck on my part, and an extremely bad day for the ones who drown.

Away from the drowning

Belief in a supernatural power is not universal. Check out online. Some tribes had no gods untill recently when Yahweh and Allah were pushed down their throats.

No lying, I dont like to talk so much about Allah because his fans (followers) are some of the most barbaric in this world. In fact, the most barbaric, they can blow you up or cut your throat. But I also dont spare them, look at my signature, thats a jab straight at them. Here, christianity and christians get the props for being reasonable. But not all, some are jerks, esp the ones who oppose science as part of their religious duty.

In the last part about corruption, thats why I said that empathy is subjective. You know why? Because I think that embezzlers should be shot. Like in China. But your religion is against capital punishment and so what happens? Leaders steal and when neccesary get saved so that they fool you to forget it, they know they cant get killed anyway and if you suggest they get killed, they will point you to the bible. . It also happens in Kenya, whereby even Indians embezle public funds (billions) then get saved and become pastors. Remember they are Hindus but they know Africans are a gullible lot.

TayserMahiri:


There is nothing like universal standard for empathy or morality. That is your construct. Think of it this way, there is a capsizing ship with many people including you, two of your younger sisters and your friend. You have just one life bag that can only carry three of you. If you were four guys, one MUST DIE. (its a hypothetical situation dont start telling me no they can all live). Three is the maximum number beyond which the bag is useless. So, as the elder one, you somehow gotta make the decision. I know you'd choose yourself, and your two sisters and let the friend die. That thing that would make you do that is not religion but subjective empathy. And it varies from person to person. Some people like me would choose to die and save both sisters and the friend. Its SUBJECTIVE. In fact, religion is a subjective experience. If for some reason I survive the capsizing boat (I was to drown, remember) and the reason for my survival is that a shark (or dolphin) saved my ass, I would see it as empathy from the shark while you would see it as a miracle straight from heaven. Why for me? Because the same lord who reached down from heaven had the synergy to save everyone on the ship by sending a thousand sharks to rescue everyone, but he didnt! So, its luck on my part, and an extremely bad day for the ones who drown.

Away from the drowning

Belief in a supernatural power is not universal. Check out online. Some tribes had no gods untill recently when Yahweh and Allah were pushed down their throats.

No lying, I dont like to talk so much about Allah because his fans (followers) are some of the most barbaric in this world. In fact, the most barbaric, they can blow you up or cut your throat. But I also dont spare them, look at my signature, thats a jab straight at them. Here, christianity and christians get the props for being reasonable. But not all, some are jerks, esp the ones who oppose science as part of their religious duty.

In the last part about corruption, thats why I said that empathy is subjective. You know why? Because I think that embezzlers should be shot. Like in China. But your religion is against capital punishment and so what happens? Leaders steal and when neccesary get saved so that they fool you to forget it, they know they cant get killed anyway and if you suggest they get killed, they will point you to the bible. . It also happens in Kenya, whereby even Indians embezle public funds (billions) then get saved and become pastors. Remember they are Hindus but they know Africans are a gullible lot.

Can you give me examples of tribes that had no gods UNTIL YAHWEH AND ALLAH WERE FORCED DOWN THEIR THROATS?

And where do you guys get your ideas, a government ordering the capital punishment is not in contrast with the Bible and I won't even discuss it with you.

You people cook up some B.S cos y'all angry you didn't enjoy your childhood or your parents forcefed you Christianity.

winner01:
Can you give me examples of tribes that had no gods UNTIL YAHWEH AND ALLAH WERE FORCED DOWN THEIR THROATS?

And where do you guys get your ideas, a government ordering the capital punishment is not in contrast with the Bible and I won't even discuss it with you.

You people cook up some B.S cos y'all angry you didn't enjoy your childhood or your parents forcefed you Christianity.

The Piraha tribe

superhumanist:



The Piraha tribe

Lol. I didn't have to go too far. They believe in the supernatural?

Belief in God or the supernatural is natural to humans. Humans are naturally predisposed to believe.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1386533/Belief-religion-simply-universal-human-nature.html
http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/05/12/religious-belief-is-human-nature-huge-new-study-claims/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/8510711/Belief-in-God-is-part-of-human-nature-Oxford-study.html

Nigga, get a job.

winner01:
Lol. I didn't have to go too far. They believe in the supernatural?

Belief in God or the supernatural is natural to humans. Humans are naturally predisposed to believe.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1386533/Belief-religion-simply-universal-human-nature.html
http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/05/12/religious-belief-is-human-nature-huge-new-study-claims/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/8510711/Belief-in-God-is-part-of-human-nature-Oxford-study.html

Why are you just trying to be silly and dishonest?

Those links you put have nothing to do with the piraha tribe. You used the links to cover the fact is that your whole argument against the piraha tribe is based on a biased Reddit post.


Had you even bothered to scroll down the Reddit thread you linked to, you would have seen comments explaining that


1. The Piraha tribe have no concept of god.

2. The Piraha tribe are more like animists who assign anthropomorphic natures to things that they can see. The use of 'spirits' from a western understanding does not really capture their culture.


Please, don't quote me. You are not ready for a honest debate.

superhumanist:



Why are you just trying to be silly and dishonest?

Those links you put have nothing to do with the piraha tribe. You used the links to cover the fact is that your whole argument against the piraha tribe is based on a biased Reddit post.


Had you even bothered to scroll down the Reddit thread you linked to, you would have seen comments explaining that


1. The Piraha tribe have no concept of god.

2. The Piraha tribe are more like animists who assign anthropomorphic natures to things that they can see. The use of 'spirits' from a western understanding does not really capture their culture.


Please, don't quote me. You are not ready for a honest debate.

That was from an atheist forum and by an atheist but it doesn't even matter.

Every scholar who has studied them have alluded to the fact that they believe in spirits. I remember Johnydon mentioning them in my thread "the origin of unclothedness", and despite the fact that this is only example referred to by atheists, all written literature points to the fact that they believe in abstract spiritual beings, they believe in the supernatural. If you think other wise, then give me proof other than just your claims.

On

winner01:
On

Mr Religulous, does belief in ancestors also fall in your category of supernatural? You seem to mean everything 'supernatural' falls in the same category and therefore normal and probably right and human and so on.. So what makes you feel nice about people believing (and worshiping) ancestors and people believing and worshiping Yahweh?? Is that some kind of back up for your case?

In other words, would you be comfortable to stand in front of a gathering of christians and tell them that one of the reasons you worship God is because there are tribes who worship ancestors and that is proof enough that you need something like Yahweh or Allah just because it is natural to believe in some extraordinary stuff? Wouldnt that be quite shocking to your audience? You just have to worship something?!!

Your point that humans historically believed in the supernatural is just evidence that your belief is no more different than idol worship or ancestor worship or satan worship or any other kind of wor-sheep

TayserMahiri:



Mr Religulous, does belief in ancestors also fall in your category of supernatural? You seem to mean everything 'supernatural' falls in the same category and therefore normal and probably right and human and so on.. So what makes you feel nice about people believing (and worshiping) ancestors and people believing and worshiping Yahweh?? Is that some kind of back up for your case?

In other words, would you be comfortable to stand in front of a gathering of christians and tell them that one of the reasons you believe in God is because there are tribes who worship ancestors and that is proof enough that you need someone like Yahweh or Allah just because it is natural to believe in some extraordinary stuff? Wouldnt that be quite shocking to your audience?

Your point that humans historically believed in the supernatural is just evidence that your belief is no more different than idol worship or ancestor worship or satan worship or any other kind of wor-sheep

Ok..


Every generation of human has believed in one form of god or the other. I haven't seen any solid evidence for a counter claim.

winner01:
Ok..


Every generation of human has believed in one form of god or the other. I haven't seen any solid evidence for a counter claim.

And that is evidence for your god?

TayserMahiri:


And that is evidence for your god?

I do not debate the existence of God with atheists or anyone.

Humanity has always believed in one form of god or the other in a bid to reach accurately for the supernatural. The beliefs may have been perverted but it only proves that atheism is alien to humanity. I've asked for proofs of counter claims and found none.

winner01:
I do not debate the existence of God with atheists or anyone.

Humanity has always believed in one form of god or the other in a bid to reach accurately for the supernatural. The beliefs may have been perverted but it only proves that atheism is alien to humanity. I've asked for proofs of counter claims and found none.

So you are comfortable with people believing in the dead, or juju masters just because humanity has always believed something, but uncomfortable with people reasoning rationally?

TayserMahiri:


So you are comfortable with people believing in the dead, or juju masters just because humanity has always believed something, but uncomfortable with people reasoning rationally?

I'm not saying in comfortable with anything, you're the one projecting your thoughts to me.

My point once again: Humanity have always been religious, atheism is alien to humanity and that's why despite years of outspokenness and rallies, it remains a minority worldview.


The is no proof that a certain part of humanity ceased to believe in the supernatural. I'm simply considering at the biological make up of man.

winner01:
I'm not saying in comfortable with anything, you're the one projecting your thoughts to me.

My point once again: Humanity have always been religious, atheism is alien to humanity and that's why despite years of outspokenness and rallies, it remains a minority worldview.


The is no proof that a certain part of humanity ceased to believe in the supernatural. I'm simply considering at the biological make up of man.

What should perhaps be triggering your brain is the fact that in all of the past, humans were less knowledgeable in just about everything compared to now. People are more atheistic today than the past because of raised levels of awareness of the surrounding ( yeah I know its still a small number of atheists but it is still far more than at any point in history, and the reason why so few are atheists has to do with several factors including fear (of parents or society), being uninformed (uneducated), wanting to fit in etc.. Back then no one had an idea of what the Sun was for instance, or what rain is. You would have to be one hell of a hardcore dude not to believe that the rain was not God himself peeing for example, or heaven being up there in the stars. But now we know heaven is nowhere up there or else it has to be somewhere beyond several billion galaxies because they have been peeped through and found to be no different from our local galaxies. And though we may now know so many of the things that were unexplainable in the past to be explainable stuff now, there is still alot to be explained. In fact we havent even scratched the surface. There is still a heap of a lot to be known, and one thing that seems pretty clear is that every time something is investigated, it is found to be very explicable without requiring magic explanations.

I really cant get what your point is in the last point. You sound so comfortable with it when in fact it makes me even surer that your God is no different from Zeus or Thor

TayserMahiri:


What should perhaps be triggering your brain is the fact that in all of the past, humans were less knowledgeable in just about everything compared to now. People are more atheistic today than the past because of raised levels of awareness of the surrounding ( yeah I know its still a small number of atheists but it is still far more than at any point in history, and the reason why so few are atheists has to do with several factors including fear (of parents or society), being uninformed (uneducated), wanting to fit in etc.. Back then no one had an idea of what the Sun was for instance, or what rain is. You would have to be one hell of a hardcore dude not to believe that the rain was not God himself peeing for example, or heaven being up there in the stars. But now we know heaven is nowhere up there or else it has to be somewhere beyond several billion galaxies because they have been peeped through and found to be no different from our local galaxies. And though we may now know so many of the things that were unexplainable in the past to be explainable stuff now, there is still alot to be explained. In fact we havent even scratched the surface. There is still a heap of a lot to be known, and one thing that seems pretty clear is that every time something is investigated, it is found to be very explicable without requiring magic explanations.

I really cant get what your point is in the last point. You sound so comfortable with it when in fact it makes me even surer that your God is no different from Zeus or Thor

Thanks for the same, repeated bed time story.

Those who have helped humanity in the area of knowledge have been mostly religious.

I'm a scientist too, and I'm firmly spiritual

Atheism is an age old worldview, its had all the time to grow. Hopelessness and emptyness doesn't sell well with humanity.

If you think my God is not different from Brahma, you do well. You'll notice I don't argue the existence of God with anyone here, I simply give my points on carefully selected subjects.

winner01:
Thanks for the same, repeated bed time story.

Those who have helped humanity in the area of knowledge have been mostly religious.

I'm a scientist too, and I'm firmly spiritual

Atheism is an age old worldview, its had all the time to grow. Hopelessness and emptyness doesn't sell well with humanity.

If you think my God is not different from Brahma, you do well. You'll notice I don't argue the existence of God with anyone here, I simply give my points on carefully selected subjects.

You dont sound like a scientist at all. I cannot believe that one. What field. Care to tell us? You sound like a religious braggart who cant understand how on earth anyone cant understand him.

About atheism not growing is because it is not a religion. You wont find an atheist 'preaching' to you because there is nothing to preach. An atheist will simply tell you you are deluded and stop wasting his/her time with shenanigans. Not preaching. Atheism being the denial of deities means that your question on why it is unpopular is like asking why is the lack of love for football not popular. Otherwise if atheism was a religion with teachings and so forth it would be doing very well especially because there is no constant threats of eternal suffering in hell. I can bet with you that in 5000 years from now the world will be very much atheist. Because ppl will be more informed, and perhaps with less problems, good technology, you can live 1000s of yrs and suddenly eternal life becomes useless, some travelling to other star systems etc