AbdelKabir:
With all the panel beating we see there, one single hadeeth breaks your backs and it says:

The prophet sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam said: oh Allaah bless us in our Makkah, and bless us in our madeenah, and bless us in our sham, and bless us in our Yemen, oh Allaah bless us in our sa'a and bless us in our mudd, then a man says: oh messenger of Allaah AND IN OUR IRAAQ, the prophet turned away from him, the man repeated it three times, every single time the man says "AND IN OUR IRAAQ" the prophet turned away from him, then the prophet sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam said: earthquakes and fitnah will happen therein, and from there the horn of shaytaan will appear "

This hadeeth is found in "al-ma'rifah wa at-taarikh" of imam Al-fasawiy rahimahullaah volume 2 page 746, as well as "Al-hilyah" of Abu na'eem volume 6 page 133, this hadeeth can also be found in "taarikh dimashq" of ibn asaakir volume 1 page 120, and other than them......


So find another copy paste faulting this particular hadeeth...

But note that the hadeeth is authentic according to the conditions of imam bukhari and imam Muslims in authenticating hadeeth....

Raintaker:
This why you need to do more studies and not just argue for argument's sake, there was no Iraq during the time of Prophet Muhammad(S.A.W).
The region was renamed Iraq in 1920 by the British.
This your Hadith is obviously Fabricated and Fake.

Raintaker:
This why you need to do more studies and not just argue for argument's sake, there was no Iraq during the time of Prophet Muhammad(S.A.W).
The region was renamed Iraq in 1920 by the British.
This your Hadith is obviously Fabricated and Fake.

Empiree:
Abdelkabir, is it not strange that you and other maintained Hadith that mentioned Iraq rather than a popular Hadith which mentioned najd?. When nabi (saw) mentioned Sham and Yemen people understood them as we understand them now. But why is Saudi Arabia which was not known to the prophet changed today?. Why did they change or dumped najd as known back then to Saudi?. Is it not the same thing done by the Young Turks to change the name of Constantinople which is the Sunnah to Istanbul?. They did this to divert attention.


When people of Medina asked him (saw) "and our najd", definitely they were referring to najd close by which is present day Saudi. I don't understand the kind of schoolarship you people trying to force on us. Horn of shaytan originally emerged from Saudi region.

I see that you are now trying to cling to Iraq mentioned in the second narration while ignoring the former because your aren't that comfortable with that. The so called elevated land to describe Iraq najd is rubbish.

Don't worry, by the time the prince lock up your ulama who want to remain faithful to the Deen, maybe you will realize they have been najd all along. Today they called it saudi Arabia to divert attention of Muslim from najd but we aren't fools.


I know you are still pained by group dhikr debate from 2yrs ago. I can't help you man. And I have just read last week a salafi website acknowledged evidence I presented back then. I will save this for another day

Empiree:
the hadith came from nowhere. I just read it yesterday and found it strange. As you can see he is holding on to that narration rather than najd narration.

Empiree:
As for the word "Iraq" in the hadith, i have to admit that Iraq had been use pre-sixth century according t my recent research.

AbdelKabir:


Even if you want to deceive yourselves you should at least be honest enough to correct your brother in deceit @Raintaker that said the word Iraaq came to be in 1920 and tell him this

AbdelKabir:


You are being restless for nothing, we are not holding to one hadeeth, rather we are using a clearer one for people like you that wish to change what was meant by the prophet.....najd was said in one hadeeth and iraaq mentioned in the other, what's wrong in taking to the clearer hadeeth especially when iraaq itself is a najd to madina?

Empiree:
right fine because that's public record. But the question remains that when the people asked nabi (saw) in Medina "OUR NAJD?". Where they referring to elevated area?

Empiree:
The so called elevated land to describe Iraq najd is rubbish.

Empiree:
right fine because that's public record. But the question remains that when the people asked nabi (saw) in Medina "OUR NAJD?". Where they referring to elevated area?

AbdelKabir:


The only thing left for you to do now is deny, even tho the truth points to your chest like a dagger, you've been told of another hadeeth that specifically mentioned iraaq and precisely defined the intended meaning of najd, why not use your 'hardworking man approach' you always profess?

I mean, the salafs, scholars have always understood najd here to be iraaq, it was when sufi grave worshippers were looking for what how to make people run from shaykul Islam Muhammad ibn Abdulwahhab rahimahullaah dhu rahmati waasi'ah, they now formed this theory which people like you are holding on to today...

Empiree:
this is not about any individual. So I don't get why you keep talking about Sufi, ibn wahab etc. My question is nabi(saw) mentioned Sham and Yemen, there was no dispute as to there locations and what they are. People didn't point to Africa when Yemen was mentioned. They didn't point to Europe when Sham was mentioned. They didn't interpret these two places to mean other places. Why is that when najd (their own town) was attributed to evil they now interpreted najd knowing too well a place called najd is right at their nose?. When they realized evil emerged from there they started interpreting najd. The famous hadith we all know is najd. Not Iraq.

And here you accused people of grave worshippers which means they are kufar. You would do yourself a big favor now to tell us those ulama at that time of ibn abdulwahab were all kufar?. Please tell us bcuz you just stylishly made compound declaration of kufr on majority and later you would backtrack from statement?.

AbdelKabir:

Any individual that is a grave worshipper is not an Aalim but a jaahil mubtadi' mushrik kaafir.

AbdelKabir:


Stop saying "the famous hadeeth we all know", say the one you know, and knowledge don't end at what you know, hadeeth that mentioned Iraaq has been known for ages, so you should be humble enough to accept this hadeeth, I only brought up ibn Abdulwahhab because that was when the sufi grave worshippers started interpreting it as najd of Saudi since they knew he is from najd.

For the umpteenth time, there are many najds, and iraaq is one of them, the first hadeeth that mentions najd making it prone to unrestricted interpretation and we find another hadeeth that says iraaq hence restricting the intended meaning of " najd", what's difficult to understand there?



Any individual that is a grave worshipper is not an Aalim but a jaahil mubtadi' mushrik kaafir.

Raintaker:

The region was renamed Iraq in 1920 by the British.
This your Hadith is obviously Fabricated and Fake.

AbdelKabir:


If you can't tell us what exactly is wrong with the hadeeth academically, then your defense is as weak as spider webs....

AlBaqir:





1. The hadith to start with is Mar'foo.

2. The hadith that mentioned "Najd vis-à-vis East" is Mutawattir.

Interestingly, the chain that mentioned "Najd vis-à-vis East" [s]has been tampered with in Musnad Ahmad (or whatever other sources that copied it)[/s]; perhaps, that's one of the reason it is Mar'foo.


Pix Attached is the hadith in Sahih Muslim and the one in Musnad Ahmad

# Sahih Muslim's chain:

Ibn Numayr - Ishaq (Ibn Sulayman) - Hanzala - Salim - Ibn Umar - (then to the holy) Prophet
https://sunnah.com/muslim/54/62



# Musnad's chain:

Ibn Numayr - Hanzala - Salim - Ibn Umar - (then to the holy) Prophet


Like Raintaker said, it is a false hadith.

AlBaqir:



# Like the following "mushrikuna":



1. Sahabi Bilal (RA):


# Imam Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani:

Ibn Abu Shaybah transmitted it with a " SOUND CHAIN OF TRANSMISSION" the narration from Abi Salih as Samaan
from Malik al Dar the treasurer of Umar (ra) that : The people were gripped by famine during the tenure of 'Umar
(Ibn al-Khattab). Then a man walked up to the Prophet's grave and said, "O Messenger of Allah, please ask for rain from Allah for your Ummah who is in dire straits." Then he saw the Prophet (SAW) in dream… till the end of hadith. Sayf narrates in his Fatuh, the one who saw the dream was Bilal bin Harith al Mazni who was one of the sahaba.

Source: Fath ul Bari : Volume No.2, Page No. 495




2. Sahabi Abu Ayyub al-Ansari:


Imam al-Hakim documents:

It is attributed to Dawud bin Abu Salih. He says: one day Marwan came and he saw that a man was lying down with his mouth turned close to the Prophet’s grave. Then he (Marwan) said to him, “Do you know what are you doing?”

When he moved towards him, he saw that it was Abu Ayyub al-Ansari . (In reply) he said, “Yes (I know) I have come to the Messenger of Allah (s) and not to a stone. I have heard it from the Messenger of God (s) not to cry over religion when its guardian is competent. Yes, shed tears over religion when its guardian is incompetent.




3. Prominent Sunni Imam Shafi:

He describes his own experience about the blessings of the tomb of Imam Abū Hanīfah: I derive blessing from the person of Imam Abu Hanifah and I visit his grave everyday. When I face a problem, I offer two optional cycles of prayer and visit his grave and (while standing) I pray to Allah to solve my problem. And I have not even left the place that my problem is solved.



4. Sunni Prominent Imam Al-Hafidh Ibn Hibban


Ibn Hibban (rah) relates his own account of going to Al-Ridha’s (rah) grave, performing Tawassul through him and states that whenever “I was afflicted with a problem during my stay in Tus, I would visit the grave of Ali bin Musa ar-Ridho (Allah (SWT)’s blessings be upon his grandfather and him) and ask Allah (SWT) to relieve me of that problem and it (my dua) would be answered and the problem alleviated. And this is something I did, and found to work, many times


Source: [Ibn Hibban, Kitab uth-Thiqat Volume 008, Page No. 456-7, #14411]



Obviously, there were many more "grave worshipper mushriqun" among the Sahabah, Tabi'ieen and prominent Sunni scholars. Abi bee koni Rashidi?

Empiree:
You see, problem with thier interpretation is base on what goes on in Iraq at the time which is proven in another narration posted by raintaker, that people of Iraq asked about killing of mosquitoes, killing on Hussayn and other etc. This is the reason they arrived at this conclusion by mentioning Iraq. But i am just curios why many of those scholars till date and you too refrain from quoting many ahadith clearly show timeline of kingdom of Saudi and Imam Mahdi, earthquake in medina that throws out kufar and munafiqun, fire in the arabia and all that. These are fitna obviously but i barely see them quote these ahadith except few like Abdulrahim Green and Sheikh Faisal (Jamaican). Most other relatively quite on this. Even at the time of nabi(saw), didnt his own people caused fitan even from Najd present location?.

I know Iraqi have been through a lot and especially a movie predicting current calamities in Baghdad. The movie was made int he 50s titled "Seven Voyage Of Sinbad" onishigi as i used to call it a child. All the atrocities that goes on in Iran at least post 9/11 al kaida, is!si etc had roots from Saudi. Isnt alkaida linked and emerged from there which hadith say "horn of shaytan" by funding those people and their khawarij brothers?. The menace did not necessarily started from Iraq.

If you want i can start posting those ahadith that directly effect the ruling kingdom, then you gonna have to choose which najd the hadith is talking about. Even islamqa reluctants before saying najd refers to iraq, and based their proof on 2 scholars interpretation. The website didnt shy away from saying there are different interpretation. So just wait as najd unfolds.

AbdelKabir:



OK you've resorted to stories, you can't prove the hadeeth is false, your case is dismissed!

AbdelKabir:


a marfoo' hadeeth is a hadeeth that has an unconnected chain to the prophet sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam, so thank you very much for admitting the hadeeth is marfoo' .a numayr....

Empiree:
Escape route when you know for sure where i am driving at . The people that stretched and interpreted meaning of Najd, did they not tell stories before arriving at their conclusions?

Empiree:
You did the same 2 yrs ago on dhirk debate but stubbornly slinged

AbdelKabir:


Ya Albaqir when a hadeeth is marfoo' what's the meaning? You are just too ignorant, wallaahi, a marfoo' hadeeth is a hadeeth that has an unconnected chain to the prophet sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam, so thank you very much for admitting the hadeeth is marfoo' ...






By the way, the way the hadeeth I quoted is not via numayr....

AlBaqir:


# You better removed the chewing gum in your eyes.

# We have proven to you the break in the hadith of Musnad. Ishaq got missing between . How it is RAISED (MAR'FOO) to the Prophet is what is alarming. The hadith is purely forged.

Between Hanzala and Ibn Numayr ?


# And I know you can never read your bunch of graveworshippers Kuffar Mushriqun.

How did I derailed? You passed a fatwa that all grave worshippers are Mushriqun, and I helped you bring out examples from Sahabah and your Imams.

AbdelKabir:


Chai! Albaqir, you first used the word "marfoo'" as if its a bad thing, when your ignorance was unveiled you want to change what you were saying, anyway too bad the hadeeth I quoted did not come with that chain, even the one you are trying to fault if u decide to look at it very I know nothing is wrong with it, but anyway my chain is different........so try harder.....

Once again thanks for admitting the hadeeth is marfoo', this way we are sure you agree the hadeeth is authentic...


By the way that place I wrote "unconnected" it should be "unbroken" I used the word wrongly!

AbdelKabir:

So albaqir tell us the meaning of a marfoo' hadeeth...

AbdelKabir:

By the way, the hadeeth I quoted is not via numayr....

AlBaqir:



# Are you sleeping ni? I quoted the two chain and faulted the one of Musnad in which a glaring name was missing. That alone should tell you I am faulting the hadith.

Yes in the case of that hadith which I said it is Mar'foo, it is simply attributed to the Prophet in an unconnected chain. That render it useless.


# The chain is broken, and that is why I used unconnected.

AbdelKabir:


Oga marfoo when used by [s]muhaddithoon is tantamount to it being authentic[/s].

Plus when you saw marfoo in that text you thought its a bad thing but again, is that the hadeeth. I quoted on this thread?

AlBaqir:


# Hadith with no sanad Give us the sanad and prove its rijal.