*shake my head* @ the argument of the jesus freaks degenerating from my god is better than your god to "my church is richer than your church"

mr. joagbaje, why dont your multi-billion dolar pastors reach out to poorer nations like rwanda and afghanistan where they truly need to hear the gospel instead of establishing multi-branches in the UK and the US where the pounds and dollars is at, and where they already have enough of these blood sulking churches, if the sole aim of the ministry business is not money but spreading of the word?

how has the present expansion of prosperity peddling penterascal business enterprises affected our homeland nigeria? why are people still more greedy and corrupt and the poor still more impoverished while all the penterascal chalatans have to show is expanding business empires, private jets, mansions, designer suits etc? how positively have they impacted our society apart from the promotion of more greed and the reverance of the greedy (thieving politicians and thieving so-called men of god dog)? my boy, "charity begins at home". if nigeria is still rift with sin and corruption (and poverty) what is the essense of acquiring multi-million dollar private jets to go spread the gospel to others?

these thieves called themselves, bestowed on themselves titles, and have continued to sulk the ignorant masses into giving away their hard earned cash in these hard times just so they "can live the lifestyle of the rich and famous". And that is the only reason a private jet was bought

joagbaje, thanks for your support rendered to the thieving men of gawd. idiot

Mudley313:


mr. joagbaje, why dont your multi-billion dolar pastors reach out to poorer nations like rwanda and afghanistan where they truly need to hear the gospel instead of establishing multi-branches in the UK and the US where the pounds and dollars is at, and where they already have enough of these blood sulking churches, if the sole aim of the ministry business is not money but spreading of the word?

You are very wrong, are you not seeing tranlations of rhapsody in all these languages? We are reaching them also through satelite , and we are getting so many responses. Try get one of the decoders and see how many muslims have come to faith in those islamic nations. Many travelled all the way for healing school and got healed. Internet is another medium by which we are reaching them. That is what we are using our billions for. Give us few years from now if Jesus tarries and see how we wiil network the world through the gospel.

how has the present expansion of prosperity peddling penterascal business enterprises affected our homeland nigeria? why are people still more greedy and corrupt and the poor still more impoverished while all the penterascal chalatans have to show is expanding business empires, private jets, mansions, designer suits etc? how positively

The word of God is the first change agent.That is why the world class rhapsody is been made available for all. In their languages. We have them now in almost all nigerian languages. and we try as much as possibe to make it free for people. especially during independence celebration. We pay for millions of copies of these materials and give people , from Aso rock villa to anthony villa and ajegunle ghetto.We have a dream to make it available to all nigerians free someday. Change is taking place already in Nigeria. We are changing mindset of people .

We have The REACHOUT NIGERIA campaign every october 1st. To awaken the spirit of patriotism in the nation. We brought joy ,laughter and celebration back into our independence celebration which the nation has forgotten.We reach out to less priviledge children. through the INNER CITY MISSION. accomodate them and give them scholarships. We have hostels for them in different pars of the country. Our branch in PH gave the model school, there 5 million nara library material and built a high tech computer centre in the prison in ph. one of the lagos branches donated hilux patril vans to aide The nigerian polic work. These are just few among many many things we do with our billions.

So Why do you have bad belle over a pastor wearing designer suits. Is the suit for animals? Is it not for human beings?. what do you recommend for them to wear?

@Joagbaje:

There is something called a pyramid effect. It informs that if Jesus reached 12 and they reached 3000 and those reached 1, 000, 000, it was actually Jesus who reached the 1, 000, 000. Else how would they have gotten the message they passed on? Your words to Ogajim make you sound deprecating of Christ.

Please try to temper down the words you use in describing issues - I get the impression that you do not mean evil but the truth is that not only Christians read these things we write. Your words make you sound like an advocate of the hitler youth syndrome i.e. "we are superior to others". That is saddening coming from not just a Christian (humility being Christ's trademark) but a minister and you might be suprised to find that impression is why so many are vitriolic when responding to you - nobody likes to be looked down upon.

And FYI, you can never dream of reaching the number of people Jesus reached even if you spend another thousand years on earth.

nuclearboy:

@Joagbaje:

There is something called a pyramid effect. It informs that if Jesus reached 12 and they reached 3000 and those reached 1, 000, 000, it was actually Jesus who reached the 1, 000, 000. Else how would they have gotten the message they passed on? Your words to Ogajim make you sound deprecating of Christ.

Far from it. We are expected to do more than he did.according to your pyramid effect, Abraham should take all the glory since. The promise was for Abraham and Jesus was the seed of Abraham. It doesn't work that way . We are all extensions of Christ and Jesus is still working through us now . But we were talking about the work Jesus did while on earth. We are expected to do more and greater than he did. We are not competing with him. He is glorified that we do greater works.he is not jealous but rather he will filled fulfilled .

Please try to temper down the words you use in describing issues - I get the impression that you do not mean evil but the truth is that not only Christians read these things we write. Your words make you sound like an advocate of the hitler youth syndrome i.e. "we are superior to others". That is saddening coming from not just a Christian (humility being Christ's trademark) but a minister and you might be suprised to find that impression is why so many are vitriolic when responding to you - nobody likes to be looked down upon.

i don't agree with you here . I sometimes use some hard words when certain posters get insultive. And many times i try to ignore the insults and stick to the topic. It's only when it gets on me sometimes I reply them according to the tone of their posts like proverbs says.

Proverbs 26:5
5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.

And FYI, you can never dream of reaching the number of people Jesus reached even if you spend another thousand years on earth.

Jesus had 120 converts in his earthly ministry. Read the bible for yourself.

Acts 1:15
15 And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said,( the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty,

The highest he had in a single crusade was a little above 5,000 . We have churches of 10, 20,50,000 single congregation and more. People have crusades of millions in Single meeting.

John 14:12
12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater[ works] than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

whatever result we are having , he is glorified we are not talking down on him.

@Poster: Does a president trully need a private jet?

Pastor Joagbaje is free to call Jesus Christ any how he sees our savior to each his own plus each of us have to "work out his/her own salvation with fear and trembling" unless this doesn't apply to the "wofers"

Africankel:

@Poster: Does a president trully need a private jet?

NO

UK prime minister, German Chancellor don't  own a jets, British airways/Lufthansa, I am sure there are plenty of countries that don't feel the need to waste their resources like that.

Churches that are supposed to look after the body of Christ should even be more careful with resources than secular authorities but I guess some of them want to measure up with corporate CEO s hence the need to act like them.

KIDS, KIDS STOP 'FIGHTING', u want a PRIVATE JET? now then, lemme get ONE for u in the DOLLAR store!

** You have to be MATURED enough(spiritually that is) to understand the statement above **

Nothing wrong with anyone buying what they can afford, the question is how did they get the money, ask your selves who gives them the money. Frankly i think they will enjoy the money here and go on to heaven to continue the groove.

^^^
Really?so it is o.k for them to enjoy ur money and use it to groove, while you wallow in poverty?And you still pray for them to make heaven after blatant acts of unGodliness?You are simply brainwashed.In essence you that has suffered here to make sure they enjoy their groove will end up suffering where? In hell?

Well. . . I think a pastor need one, as long as he can affored it. He aint spending anyones money, its he's. BTW, if he cannot aford one and I can, I'll simply buy him one and continue driving in my Lambohrgini

@Joagbaje. I still worship at CEC here in Holland, I have seen a lot of things that makes me shake my head and say indeed Jesus will bounce so many pastors and followers like you back on the last day. The message of CEC looks ok and sound when you hear it, but if you really follow it up you can almost tell where he is going to end up the message, its all about bring money and God will bless you. Every little project is CEC the members will be ask to contribute money to carry out that project, but what happened to the Big business empire Chris is running in the name of the church ? is there no profit ? who owns that profit? where does the profit goes to? The money raised from rhapsody alone is enough to print copies for distribution for another 3 to 4 years without having to bug anyone for more contributions. Look these guys are running a profitable organisations agree with me or not.

The Roman Catholic can afford to buy 10 jets at once if they so wish to do so, because they have more than enough for such waste spending. There are villages in Nigeria that have not heard the Gospel why these pastors are not going there to establish a church or use that money to create awareness of our Lord Jesus Christ? Pastor Chris will soon announce his own Jet watch out!

^^^ Ganjaseed, Pastor Joagbaje already stated on this thread that the Pope couldn't afford a private jet hence he doesn't own one, now you see the kind of information he has access to for him to draw such conclusions. He might need some EDUCATION for him to understand Church WEALTH vs the HUMILITY, AUSTERITY lifestyle required of Christians.

This question will be better restricted to Pastor Nigeria. i.e does a Pastor in Nigeria NEED a private Jet?If it's need then the most likely correct answer will be a resounding NO. But they have not committed a sin by having a Private Jet.
If the Pastor purchased the Private Jet from his own (or family) hard earned money and seeks to maintain it personally, then he is free to do that. But in a country like Nigeria with high unemployment rate, high poverty level etc it will not be better if he does not spend such money on a private jet. Unfortunately, the rumour going around is that those with the private Jet might have purchased them through other people contribution and possibly maintained the Jets with others money. It will be 'embarrassing' to the Lord if the Tithes and offerings' were spend on this in Naija or if the poor members were levied- either indirectly by motivational sermons on giving or directly not to talk of using stolen public fund given by church members (that in the heart of the 'man of God' is unexplainable by the regular income of such contributors) to purchase and maintain them.
If Paul, Peter, etc were here would they have spend the church money on Jets? How come we did not read about the Donkeys, horses, ship they bought to facilitate their evangestic outreaches.
Men and Brethren, let no man DECEIVE YOU. PRIVATE JETS LOOKS LIKE THE MANIFESTATION OF CLASS EGO COMMON AMONG THE RICH IN NAIJA WHICH UNFORTUNATELY HAVE ENTERED INTO THE CHURCH.

^^GBAM, nothing more to add

@ogajim
You are right my brother people like pastor joagbaje might be those having their little gathering anticipating to get rich with peoples wealth at all cost. I can say this to any GOC face to face, "they have no need of a private Jet" Having a private Jet is indeed not a sin but for a church that does not manufacture anything for commercial purpose but lied to the government that they are non profitable organisation but have more money than legitimate businesses in the country. Can anybody tell me where the source of the money used in purchasing these things came from ? Surely from tithe, offering and donations, if this money is diverted to purchase a private Jet, are they doing the right thing like that ? what happen to the fatherless, the widows and the less privilege in their midst ?

Nigerians are very brilliant people we love education, but not many can afford it, but we have churches in the country with a private Universities all over the place how many of their members who even contributed money to the building of that university are students there ? can they afford the fees? Yet we clap our hands to hail these GOC's and some even respect their philosophical deceptive words and ready to hang their neck for GOC's.

The Bible says " The blessing of God maketh rich and added no sorrow to it" Private Jet for these churches is not a blessing from God because we have already seen the sorrow which is being attached to it (maintenance, fueling, crew members, landing and taking off fees, insurance and TAX) If you put all these money together per month it will surprise you how foolishly they have been busy fulfilling their selfish purpose and not the purpose of God.

@Ganjaseed:

Nice thoughts and posts but one thought comes to my mind reading you - considering what you say and believe about CE, do you feel morally justified still attending that church? Sorry but I feel you "offer" tacit support when you still come together with them. Imagine that out of 400 members, 300 think and believe as you do yet quietly attend. Wouldn't they be better served by "coming out" so the leadership can ask themselves what is going wrong when the pews become empty?

@nuclearboy
The problem is that Nigerian churches in diaspora also serve as a sort of social platform were nigerians can meet regularly with other nigerians. As such the real attraction to most of these churches is the social benefit and not necessarily spiritual/religious.

@Kunle:

I get your point. I hope you remember I am totally in support of Ganjaseed's position - I was just looking for some way whereby disapproval can be shown. I guess at this point, the only thing that comes to mind is the advise to pluck out our eyes if they will see us to hell. Maybe its time to cut out the social gatherings

^^^ Kunle took the words right out of my mouth, I still fellowship with a local RCCG branch close to home though I don't share some of their beliefs anymore.

I do believe a "Church" doesn't make the Christian, the Christian is the one that makes the "Church" and the Temple is the Christian. Some of the American Churches are even worse when it comes to these worship of "MOGs", most of the Nigerian Pastors took the page from their US counterparts  

One don't have to buy fully into what they're selling (tithe, seed sowing, etc) knowing who we really SERVE is paramount and practicing the kind of AGAPE love Christ preached and LIVED.

@ogajim:

Its not like I don't get what you and kunle are saying. However, how many people look up to you guys who see you attend, assume all is well and sit easy? They might not be able to sift out the weeds from the fruits, if you get my point! And for these, you've provided tacit support, though not deliberately.

But I guess man cannot be an island anyway. God help us all

. . .surprised no one has rolled out the Jesus was materially rich argument yet, to buttress their egomania.

nuclearboy:

@ogajim:

Its not like I don't get what you and kunle are saying. However, how many people look up to you guys who see you attend, assume all is well and sit easy? They might not be able to sift out the weeds from the fruits, if you get my point! And for these, you've provided tacit support, though not deliberately.

But I guess man cannot be an island anyway. God help us all

I understand your point nuclearboy, I do have a study group that meet informally any chance we get even via teleconference sometimes. We can't "forsake the gathering of Saints" so as not to our growth in Christ Jesus.

It is also our Christian DUTY to educate those in "spiritual bondage" self or "MOG" induced!

aletheia:

. . .surprised no one has rolled out the Jesus was materially rich argument yet, to buttress their egomania.

True that.

The Robe woven of Gold, Silver and Diamond thread He wore that even Pontius Pilate and Caeser drew swords over; the borrowed donkey which was equivalent of a personalised Lear Jet today (I wonder what the model number of a personalised donkey would be : " Yeshua 001" perharps stamped on its nose with farts smoke emitting from its behind announcing the arrival of the GOM [God of man]) and his tomb: the envy of the ages as even angels came to admire its architecture and the design of its arches.

Not to imagine the material wealth it takes to feed 5, 000 hungry Isrealis (those people who love food so much) and to use perfume to wash His feet every minute. One cannot but wonder what was used to wash his hair if the hair of Halle Berry and/or J-Lo was sponge and "UltraRed" by Paco Rabanne was the soap. Chei, imagine Beyonce using her hair to wash my feet (I need to become a MOG).

Which is why every follower particularly those self called to be high-priests of a priesthood that has only one true High-Priest ought have 16 SUVs like their fellow Akingbola, 2 town mansions and a country home in each state, a personal university, a few hundred designer suits, 3 pre-teens children each of whom has a million dollars in cash as spending allowance yearly and NOW - a private Jet.

Hopefully Concorde will be resurrected so "WE" can be in a class of our own seeing as our reward is here.

Besides the point is the fact that he had nowhere to lay his head and his clothing and manner was so poor they couldn't even separate Him from His disciples. And of course, it is idiotic to remember Paul's desire to complete his work and get his desired reward which supposedly was not on earth.

But then, Paul? What did that pauper with a mouth filled with baby teeth "know" when you consider todays revelation knowledge and its possibilities? Afterall, brains partially fried with "Jeri curls" are best suited to knowing the "real" truth of God's Kingdom

^^^ chei, ROFLMAO nuclearboy don kill me still in stiches.

Ganjaseed:

@Joagbaje. I still worship at CEC here in Holland, I have seen a lot of things that makes me shake my head and say indeed Jesus will bounce so many pastors and followers like you back on the last day.

I pity your condition. How can you be attending a church you dont believe in. What are you doing there. You are a contradiction if  i may say. You dont have convictions. a real man you live by convictions. It is said ," if you are not leading, or following, get out of the way" live for a cause

The message of CEC looks ok and sound when you hear it, but if you really follow it up you can almost tell where he is going to end up the message, its all about bring money and God will bless you. Every little project in CEC the members will be ask to contribute money to carry out that project,

That is living for a cause brother. Were people not giving for projects in the bible? answer me. From the building of the temple to welfare for the needy?When Paul announced for money to be laid aside every sunday saying to them, " for God  loveth  a cheeeeeeeerful giver" what would you do if you were there? What do you do with your own money. We take pleasure in giving, we have fulfillment is serving God with all that we have and we are blessed for it.You are the one having a problem here been unable to give . You may critisice  pastor Chris but at least he is doing something for his generation. What do you offer?

but what happened to the Big business empire Chris is running in the name of the church ? is there no profit ? who owns that profit? where does the profit goes to? The money raised from rhapsody alone is enough to print copies for distribution for another 3 to 4 years without having to bug anyone for more contributions. Look these guys are running a profitable organisations agree with me or not.

If there is any business Pastor Christ is running  as some of you claim,, Then he must be running it like any business man. paying tax and duties etc. But whats your problem with that? If a pastor is not working, trouble. If a pastor  is doing business, i thought there should have been commendation but its trouble still.

Pastor Chris will soon announce his own Jet watch out!

You definately dont know Pastor Chris, He is not a worldy man. Forget what you see on TV. He live a very simple life. He recieves a lot of gifts Just as Jesus , Paul, elijah , Elisha did.

Luke 8:2-3
   And certain women, which had been healed of evil spirits and infirmities, Mary called Magdalene, out of whom went seven devils, [3] And Joanna the wife of Chuza Herod's steward, and Susanna, and many others, which ministered unto him of their substance.

He doesnt spend money on personal thing.He puts everything into the work of ministry. He wants to reach the entire world for christ. This can only be achieved by technology.That is why everybody love Pastor Chris. And he is a great giver. Listen to his messages.

One thing I agree with Joagbaje over: Chris Oyakilome is not likely ever to purchase a Jet. We may not like much of what the guy does but he honestly does not seem to tend in that direction. It would have just been really nice if the thrust was less on cash and offerings and more on holiness, the life of Christ and the waity for Heaven. I sincerely think the man started out with a good dream but this world has a way of bringing a lot of what you do not want with what you want - thats why so much amazing rubbish then comes in.

I have been so very close to some heavy weight MOGs and found out its easy to believe many "sinners" will change as they listen to you when you see them coming in. You pray, claim, believe and hope for "miraculous change" Unfortunately, "pearls and pigs do not go hand in hand" and it is a little folly that spoils a lot of wisdom (according to the Bible); not the other way around. Where many of these guys miss it is this - they allow the weeds in and little by little, truth starts to be watered down to keep them in in the hope of change. Sadly, it becomes almost impossible to turn around because in the initial euphoria and excitement, a lot has passed under the bridge. Then we blame them. Maybe we ought pray more for them.

On their own part however, what they "claim" informs a strength that should be able to make an about turn and say "I made a mistake and am sorry. I am turning back". It is this "i am a god" matter that makes that difficult to say and is why many are (humanly) irredemable.

@Joagbaje:

Whist I initially agreed with you that he ought not stay "in Babylon", there was a reason offered for him staying. And I am sorry - true it is that money is needed for much BUT money is not a CAUSE to live for! I would have thought a pastor would ask us to live for God, not for money!
The end of the matter is this - You, Pastor Chris, KunleOshob, me ALL have the same status before God as a 2 year old who has accepted Christ 5 minutes ago and NONE of us is perfect. It is your claims to the contrary that make all this arguments needful

Joagbaje:

I pity your condition. How can you be attending a church you dont believe in. What are you doing there. You are a contradiction if  i may say. You dont have convictions. a real man you live by convictions. It is said ," if you are not leading, or following, get out of the way" live for a cause

That is living for a cause brother. Were people not giving for projects in the bible? answer me. From the building of the temple to welfare for the needy?When Paul announced for money to be laid aside every sunday saying to them, " for God  loveth  a cheeeeeeeerful giver" what would you do if you were there? What do you do with your own money. We take pleasure in giving, we have fulfillment is serving God with all that we have and we are blessed for it.You are the one having a problem here been unable to give . You may critisice  pastor Chris but at least he is doing something for his generation. What do you offer?

If there is any business Pastor Christ (Mistake? I think not)is running  as some of you claim,, Then he must be running it like any business man. paying tax and duties etc. But whats your problem with that? If a pastor is not working, trouble. If a pastor  is doing business, i thought there should have been commendation but its trouble still.


You definately dont know Pastor Chris, He is not a worldy man. Forget what you see on TV. He live a very simple life. He recieves a lot of gifts Just as Jesus , Paul, elijah , Elisha did.

Luke 8:2-3
   And certain women, which had been healed of evil spirits and infirmities, Mary called Magdalene, out of whom went seven devils, [3] And Joanna the wife of Chuza Herod's steward, and Susanna, and many others, which ministered unto him of their substance.

He doesnt spend money on personal thing.He puts everything into the work of ministry. He wants to reach the entire world for christ (DUDE! ). This can only be achieved by technology.That is why everybody love Pastor Chris. And he is a great giver. Listen to his messages.

Pastor joagbaje, tonye-tithe is around somewhere to assist you because nuclearboy is taking you to the cleaners man. Remember that God will not share his glory so don't give any MAN what is God's because our God is a jealous God. I am tempted to call Jo names but I won't get low, this is not about who is right, it is about what is right and of God.

Performing "miracles" don't mean they are of God we must remember, Every waking moment is a miracle I believe.


We always seem to forget Satan was dismissed along with a 3rd of the Angels and don't be surprised they get front row seats on Sundays in most of these so called Churches.

@Ogajim,

If there is any business Pastor Christ (Mistake? I think not)is running as some of you claim,

have you not made mistake in typing before? Dont make an issue about this. You know it was not deliberate.
But that doesnt take away the fact that we are Christ.

Joagbaje:

@Ogajim,

have you not made mistake in typing before? Dont make an issue about this. You know it was not deliberate.
But that doesnt take away the fact that we are Christ.

Pastor Joagbaje,


No one is above mistakes especially when it comes to typing, it does seem like a calculated (intended) mistake as one of your fellow CEC folks already made the same "mistake" that was pointed out. same with the capital C and lower case c mistake on both right?


We strive to be like Christ but we are not Christ as he can't be replicated.

This "Pastor Christ" thing seems to be quite common on NL - I believe this is like the 4th time I'm coming across it. I pray it remains just a mistake which we strive to correct. However, Joagbajes further claim that "we are Christ" makes me wonder.

Joagbaje, no wahala what you call yourself but just as calling yourself "Goodluck" won't make you president, calling your pastor "Christ" won't make a difference to who he really is - Pastor Chris Oyakilome, respected by many and reviled by as many; believed to be a man of God by many and to be a fraudster by many others. It will not make him Christ.

However, one thing these "boasts" definitely do is make Christians look like a deluded set of individuals when they say Christ is God and they are Christ. Not only christians read these posts and it smacks of hypocrisy, pride and total insanity to hear such claims of divinity. The Apostles were much more humble and careful with what they said - yet these were people who raised the dead openly, got cripples to walk and were bitten by deadly snakes. That last reminds me of a pastor who supposedly was shouting "praise the Lord" in church, got excited and carried away and jumped with his hands stretched up. Sadly (for the bugger), there was a fan operating above. The inevitable impact between hand and fan-blade(s) solicited a shout: "yee Shangooooo"

I wonder what you shout, sir.

^^ That's a classic piece right there, good job nuclearboy.

I find it hard to believe these CEC/Love World inc. folks don't know what they are doing for the most part. Don't forget Kunle exposed Pastor Joagbaje as Goodluck's local CEC branch Pastor here on NL but he refused to accept he was the same guy mentioned in the article.
Not even the birthday greetings to 'Pastor Chris' where he showed the same email address could sway him otherwise.

I have learnt a lot on NL, not all that glitters is gold and not all that claim Christ even know him.