budaatum:


I haven't made any point about Palestine being a state or not.

Facts are, some people who have chosen to call themselves Palestinians don't like thieves who arrived in 1948 taking their land.

budaatum:
Stop asking me questions I have answered. You don't need to like my answer, but stop with the needless bullying. Its pointless.



Jews may have always been in the land, but the State of Israel, which is the current entity the Palestinians are fighting, was not there and hadn't been there for many centuries prior to 1948.

so why did you say this in bold?

Before 1948, there was a civil WAR. The Israeli struggle did not start when they got their independence

bemeruca:

so why did you say this in bold?

Before 1948, there was a civil WAR. The Israeli struggle did not start when they got their independence

I agree there was war in the area, or conflict, at least.

The conflict has its origins in the rise of Zionism in Europe and the arrival of Jewish settlers to Ottoman Palestine in the late 19th and early 20th centuries.[23] The local Arab population opposed Zionism, primarily out of fear of territorial displacement and dispossession.[23] The Zionist movement garnered the support of an imperial power in the 1917 Balfour Declaration issued by Britain, which promised to support the creation of a "Jewish homeland in Palestine". Following the British occupation of the formerly Ottoman region during World War I, Mandatory Palestine was established as a British mandate. Increasing Jewish immigration led to tensions between Jews and Arabs which grew into intercommunal conflict.[24][25] In 1936, an Arab revolt erupted demanding independence, which the British suppressed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_conflict

And that above only refers to the current conflict, and not one I referred to as going back 5000 or so years!

As I said,

budaatum:

Bem, we are talking about one of the most embattled regions likely in the entire history of humankind. And it takes quite a lot of reading to even begin to realise how complex it is not to talk of understand it, unless you want to claim you've lived there for 5000 or so years so therefore know the various diverse cultures better than buda who clearly hasn't lived there.

Any day one chooses between the above is just the idle stupid choice of a date that suits ones argument, and I am not interested.

bemeruca:


as long as the aim and goal is to exterminate the Jews, they don't deserve the freedom to do that.

Are you twisted or what? Of course I don't deserve, nor do I have the freedom to exterminate the Jews! Israel is not going to give me any such freedom, just as I too will not give Israel the freedom to take my land and exterminate me.

That, donut, both of us not giving the other the freedom to exterminate the other, is precisely why there is conflict and war! If not, you will shake your powerful nuclear weapons and take my land and exterminate me and I will just accept it because I am weak like you and there will be no conflict at all because I'd be dead. Unfortunately for you, I am alive and I am bold and I am fighting back and there is conflict.

bemeruca:




so why did you say this in bold?

Before 1948, there was a civil WAR. The Israeli struggle did not start when they got their independence

Some back and forth with some people come up because they have to take the opposite position regardless.
On the Israeli Arab conflict, they have outright anti Israel bias. They only know the history from the Arabian perspective. They spout off propaganda disseminated by one side. Unlike you who has looked at both perspectives and drawn your own conclusion.
It boils down to anti semitism from the likes of Budaatum and ijebosb.

basilico:



It boils down to anti semitism from the likes of Budaatum and ijebosb.

I'm not interested.

ijebosb:


Here is Israel's former chief spy Tami Pardo, clearly not a Hamas lover or antisemite saying the same things I've been saying for a while now.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/arrogance-bullshit-top-insiders-netanyahu-025646703.html

France.

Socialist leader Raphaël Glucksmann:
“‘The only thing that matters to me is that the National Rally doesn’t win the elections and won’t govern the country. […] We can’t leave France to the Le Pen family’, he said

Sounds familiar. They know what's best for the people.
Better they just use AI to determine the next leader instead of having elections. Win win .

basilico:
France.

Socialist leader Raphaël Glucksmann:
“‘The only thing that matters to me is that the National Rally doesn’t win the elections and won’t govern the country. […] We can’t leave France to the Le Pen family’, he said

Sounds familiar. They know what's best for the people.
Better they just use AI to determine the next leader instead of having elections. Win win .

And of course you wouldn't bother checking why.

https://apnews.com/article/france-far-right-le-pen-antisemitism-march-1be755267b978c056de65f88a33c3302

basilico:


Some back and forth with some people come up because they have to take the opposite position regardless.
On the Israeli Arab conflict, they have outright anti Israel bias. They only know the history from the Arabian perspective. They spout off propaganda disseminated by one side. Unlike you who has looked at both perspectives and drawn your own conclusion.
It boils down to anti semitism from the likes of Budaatum and ijebosb.

you have people who migrated to a land controlled by the Ottomans trying to prevent the Jews from coming back to their ancestral land. at least 100k Jews were massacred in Ukraine before Hitler rose to power. So much antisemitism was going on in Europe which fostered the Zionist movement. these people without a state and in the land of the Jews does not want Jews coming back to their home land so they started a civil war and rejected the partition by the UN.

budaatum:


Are you twisted or what? Of course I don't deserve, nor do I have the freedom to exterminate the Jews! Israel is not going to give me any such freedom, just as I too will not give Israel the freedom to take my land and exterminate me.

That, donut, both of us not giving the other the freedom to exterminate the other, is precisely why there is conflict and war! If not, you will shake your powerful nuclear weapons and take my land and exterminate me and I will just accept it because I am weak like you and there will be no conflict at all because I'd be dead. Unfortunately for you, I am alive and I am bold and I am fighting back and there is conflict.

who is talking about you here? I am talking about the Palestinians. Since they refused to live in peace with their neighbors for a land they don't own, they started a civil war this is why the two-state solution came into play... Arab state and Jewish State. The Jews Accepted and their independence was established, but the Arabs rejected hoping to take everything. they lost even more since then.

bemeruca:


who is talking about you here? I am talking about the Palestinians.

So am I, Bem. We are talking about Palestine and Israel, and Ukraine and Russia, and my body my choice too.

I wear my dress with pride.

bemeruca:


who is talking about you here? I am talking about the Palestinians. Since they refused to live in peace with their neighbors for a land they don't own, they started a civil war this is why the two-state solution came into play... Arab state and Jewish State. The Jews Accepted and their independence was established, but the Arabs rejected hoping to take everything. they lost even more since then.

The Jews have always prayed facing Jerusalem for millinea while in exile.
We know that the qibla was Jerusalem first but once the Jews refused, it was changed.The direction of prayer was 'corrected' in a revelation. I won't get into that.
The Jews in exile started buying up land in Israel under the Zionist movement from the Ottoman and Arabs in Israel from the 1850s.They developed the kibbutz system, Arabs flocked there to look for work.
After Holocaust Jews moved in en mass.At Israel declaration almost all Jews 800K were expelled from surrounding Arab countries, Egypt Iraq, Syria, Iraq, Saudi, Tunisia, Algeria etc. Israel resettled them with no problems. Going as far as to airlift Ethiopian Jewry to Israel.
As for Arabs who fled the war, they were never resettled by their brothers. No Arab country wants to assimilate them like Israel did to their exiled Jews, the Palestinians brazenly lie about being descendants of the ancient Philistines. Those who never fled the 1948 war today are Israel Arabs with full citizenship rights ,serve in the Knesset, have equal opportunities and are 20% of the population. The Druze in north Eastern part are full Israel citizens who willingly serve in the army. The Israeli Arabs and the Druze would never accept to relinquish Israel citizenship for Palestinian.
That says it all.
We only hear of those oppressed Arabs now known as Palestinians who caused problems in Lebanon, were expelled from Jordan and also Kuwaiti. They were notorious in airplanes hijack

My Body My choice . Budaatum what's wrong here.

2023. The House passed the Born-Alive Abortion Survivors Protection Act, which says any infant born alive after an attempted abortion is a "legal person for all purposes under the laws of the United States." Doctors would be required to care for those infants as a "reasonably diligent and conscientious health care practitioner would render to any other child born alive."
The bill passed 220-210, and all 210 of the "no" votes came from Democrats. Only one Democrat voted for the bill — Rep. Henry Cuellar of Texas — and one other Democrat, Rep. Vicente Gonzalez of Texas, voted "present."

The Bill passed the house.
100% of the 210 Nay votes from democrats.
Democrats don't want a baby who survives abortion to be allowed to live. In that case they want a post birth abortion. Can't figure out why.

I've not checked the Bills progress in the Schumer controlled senate.

budaatum:


And of course you wouldn't bother checking why.

https://apnews.com/article/france-far-right-le-pen-antisemitism-march-1be755267b978c056de65f88a33c3302

Rubbish. Marie Le Pen is not antisemitic. Her father was. She is not.

Son of Hamas founder.
Mosab Hassan Yousef, also called The Green Prince, is a Palestinian ex-militant who defected to Israel in 1997, thereafter working as an undercover agent for the Shin Bet until he moved to the United States in 2007.

Voting machines. Elon Musk , Kennedy Jr.

Paper ballots that democrats don't want. They want to be rid off Trump to "save our democracy"

basilico:
Voting machines. Elon Musk , Kennedy Jr.

Paper ballots that democrats don't want. They want to be rid off Trump to "save our democracy"

Trump’s single-voting day proposal would either need the concurrence of all the 50 state-level secretaries of state and/or a federal constitutional amendment, before it becomes law. Besides, many would oppose a single voting day because of many other extraneous factors that are familiar to most of us 🤷🏾‍♂️

basilico:


Rubbish. Marie Le Pen is not antisemitic. Her father was. She is not.

Never said she is antisemitic. Can you not understand however how some might hold her father against her?

What happens there is we don't trust you. Any baby born alive is already considered a person, and killing it is murder, so your bill is stupid and pointless.

basilico:
My Body My choice . Budaatum what's wrong here.

2023. The House passed the Born-Alive Abortion Survivors Protection Act, which says any infant born alive after an attempted abortion is a "legal person for all purposes under the laws of the United States." Doctors would be required to care for those infants as a "reasonably diligent and conscientious health care practitioner would render to any other child born alive."
The bill passed 220-210, and all 210 of the "no" votes came from Democrats. Only one Democrat voted for the bill — Rep. Henry Cuellar of Texas — and one other Democrat, Rep. Vicente Gonzalez of Texas, voted "present."

The Bill passed the house.
100% of the 210 Nay votes from democrats.
Democrats don't want a baby who survives abortion to be allowed to live. In that case they want a post birth abortion. Can't figure out why.

I've not checked the Bills progress in the Schumer controlled senate.

basilico:


The Jews have always prayed facing Jerusalem for millinea while in exile.
We know that the qibla was Jerusalem first but once the Jews refused, it was changed.The direction of prayer was 'corrected' in a revelation. I won't get into that.
The Jews in exile started buying up land in Israel under the Zionist movement from the Ottoman and Arabs in Israel from the 1850s.They developed the kibbutz system, Arabs flocked there to look for work.
After Holocaust Jews moved in en mass.At Israel declaration almost all Jews 800K were expelled from surrounding Arab countries, Egypt Iraq, Syria, Iraq, Saudi, Tunisia, Algeria etc. Israel resettled them with no problems. Going as far as to airlift Ethiopian Jewry to Israel.
As for Arabs who fled the war, they were never resettled by their brothers. No Arab country wants to assimilate them like Israel did to their exiled Jews, the Palestinians brazenly lie about being descendants of the ancient Philistines. Those who never fled the 1948 war today are Israel Arabs with full citizenship rights ,serve in the Knesset, have equal opportunities and are 20% of the population. The Druze in north Eastern part are full Israel citizens who willingly serve in the army. The Israeli Arabs and the Druze would never accept to relinquish Israel citizenship for Palestinian.
That says it all.
We only hear of those oppressed Arabs now known as Palestinians who caused problems in Lebanon, were expelled from Jordan and also Kuwaiti. They were notorious in airplanes hijack

Notice how no one is putting serious pressure on Hezbollah. Just wait till Israel starts to hit them hard and see how Israel becomes the villain.

PDPGuy, raumdeuter and budaatum what do you guy think about this comment from a black church in detroit.
https://twitter.com/BehizyTweets/status/1802083027347976429?t=G3m7AFwvBUZ3FJUbg76iww&s=19

budaatum:
What happens there is we don't trust you. Any baby born alive is already considered a person, and killing it is murder, so your bill is stupid and pointless.

Trust me? Why. That's a fact. All House democrats 210 of them rejected a bill that would force doctors to keep baby alive if it survives an abortion.
****
Senate democrats also rejected the bill.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/born-alive-act-senate-rejects-born-alive-bill-anti-abortion-advocates-reignite-late-term-abortion-debate-2019-02-27/

You can also interpret Balckface Governor comment any way you want......

Ralph Northam: You know, I wasn't there, Julie, and I certainly can't speak for Delegate Tran, but I would tell you -- one, the first thing I would say is this is why decisions such as this should be made by [healthcare] providers, physicians, and the mothers and fathers that are involved. There are -- you know when we talk about third-trimester abortions, these are done with the consent of, obviously, the mother, with the consent of the physicians, more than one physician by the way. And it's done in cases where there may be severe deformities, there may be a fetus that's non-viable. So in this particular example, if a mother is in labor, I can tell you exactly what would happen. The infant would be delivered, the infant would be kept comfortable, the infant would be resuscitated if that's what the mother and the family desired, and then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and the mother . So I think this was really blown out of proportion ...

basilico:


Trust me? Why. That's a fact. All House democrats 210 of them rejected a bill that would force doctors to keep baby alive if it survives an abortion.
***

You don't know how dumb you are. You just read this stuff, apply the most "maths is racist" logic and you got your new talking point. Its why I hardly bother, but its Sunday. So Rules. Its the one day we must use our God given brains.

At the moment, and currently all over the world, families are going to court to sue doctors who want to switch off the life support of their family member whom doctors have certified brain dead, they need the bed. Families are even sometimes suing doctors to terminate their brain dead family member because they can no more pay the bill. But maga republican you want doctors to "baby alive if it survives an abortion", and Ijebosb is telling me to be scared of maga basilicos, lol.

Who pays the bill? And how they voting?

The infant would be delivered, the infant would be kept comfortable, the infant would be resuscitated [b]if that's what the mother and the family desired,

After aborting a near term foetus that then got born, then "what the mother and the family desired"!?!

Please tell me the democrats imposed the abortion on the unwilling "mother and the family".

basilico:


Trust me? Why. That's a fact. All House democrats 210 of them rejected a bill that would force doctors to keep baby alive if it survives an abortion.
****
Senate democrats also rejected the bill.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/born-alive-act-senate-rejects-born-alive-bill-anti-abortion-advocates-reignite-late-term-abortion-debate-2019-02-27/

You can also interpret Balckface Governor comment any way you want......

Which abortion method does a baby survive?

budaatum:


You don't know how dumb you are. You just read this stuff, apply the most "maths is racist" logic and you got your new talking point. Its why I hardly bother, but its Sunday. So Rules. Its the one day we must use our God given brains.

At the moment, and currently all over the world, families are going to court to sue doctors who want to switch off the life support of their family member whom doctors have certified brain dead, they need the bed. Families are even sometimes suing doctors to terminate their brain dead family member because they can no more pay the bill. But maga republican you want doctors to "baby alive if it survives an abortion", and Ijebosb is telling me to be scared of maga basilicos, lol.

Who pays the bill? And how they voting?

Your problem is the bill?
You think all aborted babies are chopped up with a scapel and vacuumed out. Or the ones poisoned ?
There are those who induce labor and baby is born prematurely.

basilico:


There are those who induce labor and baby is born prematurely.

And who are these people? Are they the doctors? Lawyers? Democrats? The pregnant person?

Who induces whose labor and baby is born prematurely?

LordReed:


Which abortion method does a baby survive?

Since when did I become the creator?

budaatum:


And who are these people? Are they the doctors? Lawyers? Democrats? The pregnant person?

Who induces whose labor and baby is born prematurely?

Ask those who are in that field

bemeruca:
PDPGuy, ramdeuter and budaatum what do you guy think about this comment from a black church in detroit.
https://twitter.com/BehizyTweets/status/1802083027347976429?t=G3m7AFwvBUZ3FJUbg76iww&s=19

I'm for anything that brings people together regardless of race.

basilico:


Your problem is the bill? You think...

No, my problem is not the bill. My point is, who the heck is electing idiots who come up with this rubbish? And it shows why Ijebosb is scared, because there are millions of you and you do win some battles.

You present a "bill that would force doctors to keep baby alive if it survives an abortion", but "the infant would be resuscitated if that's what the mother and the family desired".

But I feel you. Telling buda what buda thinks instead of reading buda's lip.

basilico:


Ask those who are in that field

Really! No wonder you can't decide if the "doctor decides" or the "mother wants".

basilico:


Since when did I become the creator?

Then why are you talking about it, speaking from ignorance?

LordReed:


Then why are you talking about it, speaking from ignorance?

I'll talk about Hamas then.