How Corruption Works In Countries Like The USA! - Politics (2) - Nairaland
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| Re: How Corruption Works In Countries Like The USA! by paddylo1(m): 3:11pm On May 27, 2010 |
The argument was that the refineries were sold far less than real worth. Yea but thats the whole point of my arguement. . I will take whatever corruption involved in selling those assets. .(eg selling below so-called real worth,whatever that means) over keeping those assets in Govt hands The first example is a one off type of corruption(if it actually was sold cheaply) that actually benefits society The second is continuous corruption,yr in yr out budgeting billions. . with no benefit to society Dangote runs the largest cement companies in Nigeria and one of the largest in Africa I am sure he would have repaired those refineries by now and reduced Nigerias imports of petrol More importantly he would have saved u and me from more NNPC corruption and Waste Leaving more dollars for the Nigerian nation to spend on health and education Instead we hear that NNPC spends $2billion every yr on T.A.M. . with nothing to show |
| Re: How Corruption Works In Countries Like The USA! by Leonidis: 3:37pm On May 27, 2010 |
A bit of a tenuous argument by paddy lo - if indeed the aforementioned - Otedola, Dangote etc, were so confident of the viability of refinery ownership, surely there would be some project under way by now to build one of their own (without the hang ups and deficiencies of the poorly run government ones) with full flexibility on whether to serve the domestic or international market? Their refusal to put their money into starting their own refineries indicates the intent might not have been to refine, but to secure guaranteed allocations of crude oil to refineries that can be sold on to the highest bidder abroad. The failure of the privatisation of NITEL is clear warning that privatisation will NOT yield improvements every time and may worsen services in reality. To say corruption 'works' is a misnomer - systems work in the USA because there are sufficient controls in place to achieve the stated goal with minimal losses. While not every offence or infringement will be captured/punished, in the overwhelming majority of cases, the intent of the activity is to produce/sell/buy/provide services and this will be accomplished. This should not be mistaken with the prevalent practice in Nigeria where the intent is to steal and carry out corrupt practices, while using the ruse of providing services/goods (which are ultimately unsuitable, substandard or never rendered) as cover for the corrupt activities. |
| Re: How Corruption Works In Countries Like The USA! by Cohomology: 3:45pm On May 27, 2010 |
Yes corruption exists everywhere yadi yadi yada, we've heard.  In Nigeria, corruption is a god, worshiped by 99% of the government. Mighty temples have been erected in Abuja and many parts of Nigeria for the daily (sometimes hourly) supplication to this popular god. In the USA, corruption is a contained (not eradicated) disease, with occasional but limited breakouts. No comparison whatsoever! |
| Re: How Corruption Works In Countries Like The USA! by Kobojunkie: 3:59pm On May 27, 2010 |
Leonidis: CUT, & PRINT! agitator:  |
| Re: How Corruption Works In Countries Like The USA! by paddylo1(m): 4:50pm On May 27, 2010 |
A bit of a tenuous argument by paddy lo - if indeed the aforementioned - Otedola, Dangote etc, were so confident of the viability of refinery ownership, surely there would be some project under way by now to build one of their own (without the hang ups and deficiencies of the poorly run government ones) with full flexibility on whether to serve the domestic or international market?[b] The Refineries were sold as part of a broader plan to fully deregulate the downstream sector Its not just Otedola or Dangote not building Refineries in Nigeria,its everybody thats not building refineries shell,chevron,exxon. . etc. . but they build it in Qatar,or Saudi Arabia and co Have u bothered to ask yourself why that is so?,well because price controls of PMS in Nigeria means no-one will put money in the sector its simple as ABC. . So i dont buy your arguement. . the point remains we are 3yrs down this road and nothing to show are u waiting for God to come and build the new Refineries for Nigeria. . come on As for NITEL. . IF it is sold and cant compete,then let it die I dont understand your arguement here,There are already so many telecomms companies in Nigeria so what is so special about NITEL? My problem is that i dont want The Nigerian GOVT spending billions of Naira every yr on a dead asset like NITEL right now they are owing NITEL staff over N30billion or so the staff claim they should cut it loose,if it makes money they tax it. . if not its good riddance[/b] |
| Re: How Corruption Works In Countries Like The USA! by Wallie(m): 5:02pm On May 27, 2010 |
The article writer is being a little disingenuous about DOD’s procurement procedure by painting it black and white. The article writer complained about “a spec (two years ago) that required Core2duo computers with 2GB ram and Windows XP ….[and] the spec is obsolete, and it costs far more to buy a bunch of obsolete Core2Duo machines with 2GB RAM than it would have cost to buy more-powerful computers at Costco.” It is probably true that it costs more to buy the older parts with guaranteed spare-parts but what he failed to mention is that the older parts, albeit not the latest and greatest, are x10 more stable and proven. Do you all remember what happened during the Windows ME and Vista upgrades with it not being compatible with different peripherals and technologies? How much does he think it will cost to continually upgrade fielded technologies? The write said “If the military wants a Mercedes, they just issue a spec that requires a hood ornament with three lines trisecting a circle, and see whichever car company meets the spec at the best price …Which means that the DOD is probably the only buyer in the world paying sticker price.” Isn’t this the same thing we do when we go see a doctor? We tell the doctor our symptoms or problems and it is up to him to come up with a diagnosis. The DOD usually wants highly complicated systems that they cannot by off-the-shelf. They really don’t know how or have the resources to make it but they know what they want the system to do. How best can one address the situation other by saying that the experts go ahead and design a system that could satisfy their specification and based on your design, I’ll determine who to give the project to? I think the writer should have focused his article on corruption on how cost reimbursement contracts are creating wastage and how fixed-price contract should return. |
| Re: How Corruption Works In Countries Like The USA! by GEW: 5:31pm On May 27, 2010 |
Cohomology:truth 100%. i dont know why some people think it is ok becos it is happening in america. why dont we get the good hospitals, electricity and good roads before we start comparing ourselves with "poor" america? |
| Re: How Corruption Works In Countries Like The USA! by bidemi12(m): 12:55am On May 28, 2010 |
you guys dont seem to understand. there is no place on earth that fraud/crime does not exist but the point of arguement is what measures the government has put in place to prevent fraud/crime and the kind of punishment metted out to those caught as a deterent to others thinking of doing same. You also have to put into consideration the percentage of people engaged in fraud/crime vis a vis the population. In Nigeria you steal one billion and you get one year in prison, prime example alameisi of bayelsa. In the US, just the improper disposal of garbage can land you 5 years in prison. |
| Re: How Corruption Works In Countries Like The USA! by marvix(m): 7:22am On May 28, 2010 |
Quote from paddy lo Also Nigerians cant seem to understand that the more u keep these companies under govt control,the less money Govt will allocate to education,health or security because they will have to keep spending money on power,NITEL salaries,TAM for refineries every yr with nothing to show. . One thing you are yet to factor in is that privatising govt entities does not mean that those stealin our money will stop stealing it, or has d privatisation nd deregulation of NITEL ended d corruption in d telecoms sector, the amt been budgeted 2 dat agency which new sector has benefitted from it. Also privatisin to cronies nd undercuttin d process does not mean dat d new owners wld run it or wat did we xperience in d sale of our steel companies. Now to d section I quoted, if we kip privatising and selling off I assure you that one day they would bring reasons 4 us to privatise,deregulate nd sell off our health institutions nd educational institutions and may be the end of it would be the privatisation of the country mayb by deregulating the electoral body so that the highest bidder can just bid 4 d country and make it work. |
| Re: How Corruption Works In Countries Like The USA! by hallo(f): 11:09am On May 28, 2010 |
I still believe that its' selfishness and corruption that is the major problem in this country  . And its been done with no guilt feeling, at least who is going to get them. All they think about is how to amass wealth to themselves and their children children making it go round their lineage instead of spreading it out  . Well i don't feel any pity for the likes of ibori. Let him dance to the music he has started.  |
| Re: How Corruption Works In Countries Like The USA! by paddylo1(m): 11:39am On May 28, 2010 |
One thing you are yet to factor in is that privatising govt entities does not mean that those stealin our money will stop stealing it, or has d privatisation nd deregulation of NITEL ended d corruption in d telecoms sector, the amt been budgeted 2 dat agency which new sector has benefitted from it. Also privatisin to cronies nd undercuttin d process does not mean dat d new owners wld run it or wat did we xperience in d sale of our steel companies. I believe corruption in the telecomms sector is down since the licensing of private GSM operators and if NITEL cannot survive they should be put out of their misery The UN usually has a benchmark of what developing countries should spend on health and education as a % of yearly budget Nigeria consistently underbudgets for those areas because we have a bloated federal workforce cutiing loose things like NITEL,NEPA,NNPC and so on will leave u with more money to spend on poverty alleviation and improving HDI. . .what makes HDI anyway? its things like water supply,health care,education infant mortality and so-on If Govt must spend money that is where it should go and on infrastructure And Yea Privatization should follow due process and best global practices |
| Re: How Corruption Works In Countries Like The USA! by pappilo(m): 12:17pm On May 28, 2010 |
Best thread I have read on Nairaland in a very very long time. No yabis just straight to the point and well put arguments and counter arguments. Someone did try to derail the thread but was firmly put in her place. Nice one guys. I dey gbadun una arguments. |
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