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Re: Zimbabwe Grows For First Time In 11 Years by MyJoe: 3:20pm On Jun 07, 2010 |
Afam: Has nothing to do with? This what you said Afam Afam:And in reply I made it clear that while I do not like the IMF, it is convenient to blame them for Zimbabwe without proving it. The truth is that the IMF[b] has something to do with[/b] every country's economy, particularly in the third world. Its policies have failed in many places, particularly Africa, but unfortunately, the IMF continues to implement them. But let's not forget the fact, if we are honest, that the same policies have worked in some places outside Africa. Now to Zimbabwe, I am aware of how badly the IMF treated Zimbabwe in 2001 when the country defaulted on its debt - that, of course, is my subjective assessment, an opinion, of what happened. I do not the energy to lay all the facts here right now. Suffice to say that I do not like the IMF and the way it has conducted itself in Africa, and that includes Zimbabwe. But the idea that they are responsible for what befell Zimbabwe or that they conspired to ruin the country, is untrue. I have already stated my disgust for the old land situation in Zimbabwe - what is wrong is the manner Mugabe carried out his redistribution. Tudor already described it well. It was Mugabe's policies that brought down Zimbabwe. I refuse to be deceived by Mugabe's antics. Did someone say Idi Amin used the same tactics? They all do. |
Re: Zimbabwe Grows For First Time In 11 Years by Afam(m): 3:32pm On Jun 07, 2010 |
MyJoe: Even as developed as the US is today it is indebted to the tune of trillions of dollars. This simply means that the US today cannot even afford to pay its debts. This also means that even the US is being sustained by credit lines being granted it by the likes of World bank and IMF. Now, when a nation as developed as the US depends on these credit lines and loans to survive how do you think a country like Zimbabwe would fair when the IMF and co chose to freeze or with hold what the country had access to before? All these back and forth started from your claim that the IMF and the World bank had nothing to do with the economic problem in Zimbabwe and that was the basis for my position that debating anything with you would amount to a huge waste of time if such a position should be allowed to stand. I never stated that only IMF crippled the economy of Zimbabwe, I merely highlighted and applauded the people of Zimbabwe and the president for growing the economy in spite of what the IMF and the World bank did to the country. |
Re: Zimbabwe Grows For First Time In 11 Years by MyJoe: 3:53pm On Jun 07, 2010 |
Afam:The US does have huge debts, but I am not aware that such debts are owed to the IMF and World Bank. The IMF did not freeze Zim's money. They merely refused to reschedule the country's debt when it was up for payment and refused further lending. It was their money and legally speaking they had the right to do what they did. But objectively speaking, I see what they did as wrong not least because they let Argentina to reschedule its debt when it had similar problems. Not that this makes them the author of Zimbabwe's problems. Afam:I did not say highlighted. I wrote this earlier: MyJoe: Afam:I basically disagree that there is much to applaud. I also happen to believe that Mugabe created the problems in the first place. That's why I mentioned NEPA. Read this: Ibime: |
Re: Zimbabwe Grows For First Time In 11 Years by Tudor6(f): 4:19pm On Jun 07, 2010 |
Afam:This just proves what we knew all along. . . . You are an EMPTY BARREL that is both illiterate and pitifully ignorant! Is this the pitiful excuse that you can come up with to blame the IMF for zimbabwe's woes? The US is one of the biggest contributors to the IMF and World bank! Maybe you should read up on US finance and economy the you can claim to know. Idiot. The fool doesnt know the US sells treasury bills/securities to investors/foreign governments and co. . . He thinks they go a begging from IMF. . .see how daft you are? Your ignorance WILL be EXPOSED TODAY! Pls keep |
Re: Zimbabwe Grows For First Time In 11 Years by Afam(m): 5:11pm On Jun 07, 2010 |
Tudór: Stick to the debts if you can or go to hell if you can't. MyJoe: I am very blunt so would not be playing with words here. To claim that IMF and World bank does not have a hand in the economic situation of Zimbabwe is to argue against a fact. The level of involvement could be debatable but certainly not whether they contributed to the economic problem or not. That the US is indebted to the tune of over 10 trillion dollars as at 4 or 5 years is not in doubt. I wonder when they intend to pay this money if at all it will ever be repaid even though introducing any diversions at this point would be meaningless as I have emphasized my position which cannot be faulted based on the facts available. So, if you agree that the IMF and the World bank contributed to the economic problem of Zimbabwe then you can go ahead and ask your questions which I will gladly respond to. Without any basic agreement on basic issues we will only succeed in wasting our times. |
Re: Zimbabwe Grows For First Time In 11 Years by Romeo4real(m): 5:37pm On Jun 07, 2010 |
@My Joe, not sure if i understood what you meant. Did you want me to post on this thread regarding the other thread? |
Re: Zimbabwe Grows For First Time In 11 Years by MyJoe: 5:51pm On Jun 07, 2010 |
Romeo4real:Ouch! So sorry, I've corrected my error. Please go back and click on that link again. |
Re: Zimbabwe Grows For First Time In 11 Years by igboitalo: 6:03pm On Jun 07, 2010 |
people like tudor and myjoe are the problem in africa, the worship the white man ,anything the whiteman does is ok. the have one thing in common cnn and bbc are thier bible .they are what i call modern day uncle tom's https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zUIjP4KWok, maybe that link will help u know the kind of person you are, you house nigga. |
Re: Zimbabwe Grows For First Time In 11 Years by Beaf: 6:22pm On Jun 07, 2010 |
igboitalo: True,especially Tudor, the woman in crisis. She thinks that being aimlessly and foolishly obnoxious is somehow a display of knowledge and a worthy sacrifice to her white gods. Its a real pity. MyJoe at least, makes arguments (even if they are rote recitals); the frustrated Tudor on the other hand, makes ZERO arguments, disgraces her womanhood and shames her black skin. . . The character of a serial convict and idiotic, fawning at the feet of whitey sellout. |
Re: Zimbabwe Grows For First Time In 11 Years by Romeo4real(m): 7:23pm On Jun 07, 2010 |
oops, wrong post! |
Re: Zimbabwe Grows For First Time In 11 Years by 4Play(m): 8:01pm On Jun 07, 2010 |
I have addressed this IMF red herring before but it's worth addressing again as a lot of ignorance pervades around this issue. The IMF will not, I repeat WILL NOT lend money to a country unless that country is in severe economic distress. The IMF only lends money to countries who, due to their economic problems, are desperately short of money and can't obtain loans from the markets because either, lenders refuse to lend or lenders will only lend at exorbitant rates. Zimbabwe only sought, remember that the IMF has to be invited by the debtor nation and cannot invite itself, IMF help due to its economic problems. The IMF cannot be blamed for plunging Zimbabwe into distress any more than you can blame the Fire Service for causing fires because you usually see the Fire Service at fire outbreaks. Get this into your blockheads. Now, there are serious questions about whether IMF panacea - tax hikes, spending cuts, trade liberalisation and deregulation - for dealing with economic problems are effective. However, if a country did not mismanage its economy in the first place, it won't have to deal with the IMF anyway. In Zimbabwe's case, long before Mugabe started land 'reforms', the country was in deep economic malaise in respect of which it sought IMF loans to alleviate the situation. When the land 'reforms' started, the IMF pulled the plug on its co-operation with Zimbabwe. Since the so called reforms, the economy has deteriorated at a cataclysmic pace contracting in 10 out of the past 11 years with hyper-inflation to boot, who remembers the ''billionaires''? As for the World Bank, not much needs to be said other than that only the stupefyingly ignorant will blame an organisation which provides developing countries with no strings attached low cost loans as responsible for Africa's woes. Even China continued to seek World Bank loans even in circumstances where one could argue that they were rich enough to no longer qualify for it. The problems of Zimbabwe are mainly down to Mugabe's mis-management. It's a measure of how psychologically traumatised Africans are that we clutch desperately to an alternative reality of 'standing up to the West' spun by dictators such as Mugabe and Abacha(Afam's hero). It's the quintessential case of cutting your nose to spite your face. A policy that reduces a people to starvation and begging for food handouts from the West is hardly liberating. This irony never seems to affect the bone-headed Mugabe praise singers. |
Re: Zimbabwe Grows For First Time In 11 Years by Afam(m): 8:53pm On Jun 07, 2010 |
4 Play: Only a confused idiot will post what you posted above and still not see the role of IMF and World bank in the Zimbabwe issue. If you cannot understand this then you are simply stupid. |
Re: Zimbabwe Grows For First Time In 11 Years by 4Play(m): 9:10pm On Jun 07, 2010 |
Afam: Rich coming from the same stark raving ignoramus that claimed that the US is indebted to the IMF/World Bank. It's verminous imbeciles like you that blight the continent of Africa with their moronic apologies for dictators like Mugabe and Abacha(who apparently is your hero) and a shocking lack of anything resembling sound judgement. |
Re: Zimbabwe Grows For First Time In 11 Years by igboitalo: 9:14pm On Jun 07, 2010 |
Afam:afam don't mind them, they dont understand the issue and they will still open their mouth and talk trash ask them this simple question are they for land reform in zimbabwe or not they will never give you an answer ,stupid oyibo houseboy |
Re: Zimbabwe Grows For First Time In 11 Years by 4Play(m): 9:20pm On Jun 07, 2010 |
Afam: Just look at the ignorant dross this man's faecal infested brain conjures. What kind of country do we have that a supposed graduate comes up with such idiocy? igboitalo: It's like an assemblage of imbeciles. What contribution do you have to make on the 'great' achievements of your hero, Mugabe? I hope you contributed money the last time there was a fund raising campaign to raise money for food aid to Zimbabwe, idiot. |
Re: Zimbabwe Grows For First Time In 11 Years by Afam(m): 9:30pm On Jun 07, 2010 |
4 Play: The funny thing about the internet is that any idiot can come up and claim to be an expert on any issue so go ahead with the nonsense you keep writing. I can arrange otapiapia for you if you need any. |
Re: Zimbabwe Grows For First Time In 11 Years by igboitalo: 9:32pm On Jun 07, 2010 |
4 Play:only grammer u sabi blow,lets do some fact checks america might not be indebted to IMF/WORLD BANK that am not but they have debts of thirteen trillion dollars which in the long they can't pay this debts, your white masters will be very proud of you for being a good house nigga because only an uncle tom will be against land reform in zimbabwe |
Re: Zimbabwe Grows For First Time In 11 Years by 4Play(m): 9:34pm On Jun 07, 2010 |
Afam: It takes an extremely cretinous individual to utter the ignorant guff you have spewed on this thread. The only thing I can arrange for you is lobotomy as you are retarded beyond belief. |
Re: Zimbabwe Grows For First Time In 11 Years by 4Play(m): 9:37pm On Jun 07, 2010 |
igboitalo: Why is this idiot worried about America's debt whilst praising Mugabe's ''brilliant'' management of Zimbabwe's economy? Why haven't you migrated to Zimbabwe, I'm sure neither or any of your family is applying for Zimbabwe's visa. |
Re: Zimbabwe Grows For First Time In 11 Years by Afam(m): 9:40pm On Jun 07, 2010 |
4 Play: Frustration seems to be setting in and I am liking it. Keep asking questions with obvious answers mumu like you. |
Re: Zimbabwe Grows For First Time In 11 Years by 4Play(m): 9:44pm On Jun 07, 2010 |
Afam: This from the retard who thinks the US owes money to the IMF and the World Bank. |
Re: Zimbabwe Grows For First Time In 11 Years by igboitalo: 9:47pm On Jun 07, 2010 |
Afam:can you do us a favour and answer this questions, 1,are u for land reform in zimbabwe 2 do you think is okay for one percent of a population to control more than ninty percent of the land in a nation |
Re: Zimbabwe Grows For First Time In 11 Years by 4Play(m): 9:54pm On Jun 07, 2010 |
igboitalo: Idiot, I support the redistribution of land to redress the injustice of the past where land was allocated on the basis of skin colour. However, unlike imbeciles like you, I do not support Mugabe's present charade of a reform which is a smokescreen to hang on to power Land reform must be done in a manner that benefits the average Zimbabwean and does not harm the economy. It may take longer, but there are sensible ways of doing it. Beating up Zimbabweans, creating famine and driving millions of Zimbabweans into neighbouring countries is not a brilliant idea. |
Re: Zimbabwe Grows For First Time In 11 Years by igboitalo: 10:01pm On Jun 07, 2010 |
while i do not advocate for violence u r naive if you think does white farmers will give up those land and again u said it will take time thirty years is it not a enough time |
Re: Zimbabwe Grows For First Time In 11 Years by Afam(m): 10:02pm On Jun 07, 2010 |
4 Play: See olodo, so Mugabe is crating famine ehn kwa? The mumuness no get part 2. |
Re: Zimbabwe Grows For First Time In 11 Years by 4Play(m): 10:11pm On Jun 07, 2010 |
igboitalo: It doesn't matter if the Govt has to remove the white farmers at gunpoint provided the locals who run the farms maintain and expand the level of output. If you, instead, dole out land to your friends and relatives like a typical African despot, output will drop considerably. Shouldn't idiots like you be asking Mugabe why in 30 years, he hasn't been able to produce a sensible land reform programme that doesn't reduce Zimbabwe to an economic basket case? Afam: I-diot, is famine a natural and regular phenomenon in Zimbabwe or the outcome of the odious policies of Mugabe? I think you will find it's the latter but your tongue is glued to Mugabe's ar-se to realise this. |
Re: Zimbabwe Grows For First Time In 11 Years by Beaf: 10:23pm On Jun 07, 2010 |
4 Play: Hmmmmm! Contradictions galore! You support land redistribution, yet you do not support Mugabe's reforms? Zimbabwe suffered the same food shortages as the whole of East Africa which was affected by a divastating drought (which "all powerful" as he may be, Mugabe did not cause). Ridiculous. Droughts are a regular and devastating occurence in Eastern and Southern Africa, not just Zimbabwe. Droughts cause famine, not Mugabe. Drought in Tanzania http://www.irinnews.org/report.aspx?reportid=46508 Drought in Zimbabwe http://ocha-gwapps1.unog.ch/rw/rwb.nsf/db900sid/ACOS-64C673?OpenDocument Drought in Namibia http://www.odi.org.uk/work/projects/pdn/drought/rothauge.html Drought in Zambia http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/2721275.stm |
Re: Zimbabwe Grows For First Time In 11 Years by 4Play(m): 10:32pm On Jun 07, 2010 |
Beaf: It may be too difficult for your cretinous mind to comprehend but there are ways of effecting land redistribution without following Mugabe's path which is a mere smokescreen. A competent leader can nationalise the farms with local farmers, who have been adequately trained, being shareholders leading to eventual privatisation. Droughts are a regular and devastating occurence in Eastern and Southern Africa, not just Zimbabwe. Droughts cause famine, not Mugabe. This man's idiocy is staggering. The presence of drought does not ipso facto lead to hunger and starvation. Droughts are a natural phenomenon which occur practically everywhere. There are droughts in Britain, droughts in Australia,e.t.c Droughts do not equal hunger unless your country has become, thanks to incompetent leaders like Mugabe, a basket case. |
Re: Zimbabwe Grows For First Time In 11 Years by Ibime(m): 10:55pm On Jun 07, 2010 |
Its getting hot in here. . . . |
Re: Zimbabwe Grows For First Time In 11 Years by Beaf: 11:10pm On Jun 07, 2010 |
4 Play: You will notice I refrain from cheap abuse like you. Not because I can't. . . It all points to a difference in upbringing. Who knows? Gutter behaviour might even be due to a lack of a mothers loving breas't milk at a tender age, leaving the mind crazed for good. Just a hypothesis. Droughts occur in Australia and might not lead to hunger there, but droughts in Africa ALWAYS lead to hunger. And last time I looked, Australia was nowhere near Zimbabwe, neither was Britain . Weird examples, those! . . .Could be the milk thing again. |
Re: Zimbabwe Grows For First Time In 11 Years by Kobojunkie: 4:11am On Jun 08, 2010 |
* IMF sees Zimbabwe growth slowing to 2.2 pct in 2010 * IMF says multi-currency system serving Zimbabwe well * Record of good policies will help restore donor funds (Adds IMF growth forecast in paragraph 3 and debt estimate in paragraph 6) By Lesley Wroughton WASHINGTON, May 25 (Reuters) - The IMF on Tuesday urged Zimbabwe to take corrective measures to repair its economy, warning that without them economic growth could slow significantly this year and undermine progress made so far. In its annual review of Zimbabwe's economy, the International Monetary Fund said there were signs economic and humanitarian conditions were improving after a decade of steep economic decline and hyperinflation. The IMF projected growth is likely to slow to 2.2 percent this year from about 4.0 percent last year, following a contraction of 14.5 percent in 2008. The IMF 2010 estimate is much lower than Zimbabwe's Finance Minister Tendai Biti's growth forecast. He told Reuters in an interview on Tuesday growth could reach 7 percent this year. See story: [nLDE64O2CK] "To solidify these gains, as well as to reduce the significant external and financial vulnerabilities, it will be critical that the authorities undertake decisive policy measures," the IMF said in a statement. It said a track record of good policies will help restore donor funding to Zimbabwe and could eventually lead to the cancellation of the country's foreign debts, which the IMF estimated at about $7.1 billion, or 162 percent of gross domestic product, by end 2009. Zimbabwe's economy has stabilized since a unity government formed by rivals President Robert Mugabe and Prime Minister Morgan Tsvangirai last year adopted the use of multiple foreign currencies to replace a worthless local dollar. The IMF said the multi-currency system "would serve Zimbabwe well in the the coming years." It said the Zimbabwe dollar could be reintroduced once the government had established a track record of sound policies and adopted a framework focused on price stability. The IMF report cautioned that the outlook for 2010 was "highly uncertain" and urged the authorities to reduce the wage bill and non-essential spending to preserve gains made so far. It also expressed concern about increasing vulnerabilities in Zimbabwe's banking system amid stronger credit growth. The Fund said the wage bill was crowding out growth-orientated expenditures, while private capital inflows have declined over worries about a government scheme to force foreign-owned firms to sell majority stakes to local people. Mugabe's chaotic land reform program, which forced many farmers off their land and destroyed Zimbabwe's once vibrant agricultural sector, is still fresh in investors' mind. The IMF said maintaining the rule of law, enforcing property rights and ensuring security of land tenure were important to improving the business climate. "Sound policies and good governance will be critical to pave the way for eventual debt relief and access to donor financing," the IMF said. The Fund said some IMF directors believed that a track record on good policies should be built with the help of an IMF-monitored staff program, which does not entail funding. Other IMF directors, however, said the authorities should demonstrate clear progress in economic policies and data collection before an IMF-monitored program is considered. (Reporting by Lesley Wroughton; Editing by Andrew Hay) http://uk.reuters.com/article/idUKN25607887 |
Re: Zimbabwe Grows For First Time In 11 Years by Kobojunkie: 4:12am On Jun 08, 2010 |
Why in the world is Mugabe the one getting PRAISED for the growth in the economy? |
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