obailala:
The simple answer to that question is YES. It all depends on the size or the proposed size of the business.

LaudableXX:

Oh,how would the new Nigerian Air which has not started operations yet and has posted zero revenue, have its shares more highly valued than those of Virgin Atlantic that has been running for years, owns multiple assets and has a large fleet size? Can a business who value is yet to be determined and currently has zero value, be worth more than an enterprise which already exists, and has churned out profits before recording a loss in just one year?

LaudableXX:

Oga, stop defending this Nigerian Air valuation, it is not worth it. How many planes would be in their fleet? Would they be a regional carrier or a long-haul trans-atlantic carrier? Virgin Atlantic currently has a fleet size of 39 planes, and is renewing its fleet. It has ordered an additional 17 Boeing 787s. It flies to over 40 destinations world wide. It operates a total of 32 daily nonstop flights between North America and the UK. Do you have proof that Nigerian Air's fleet & destinations would exceed this size? Can a proper valuation be carried out, based on this?

obailala:
The simple answer to that question is YES. It all depends on the size or the proposed size of the business. You cannot automatically expect a keke napep to cost more than a brand new BMW simply because the keke napep is currently in operation on the streets and making profits. First question that really should have been asked is, "what is the size of the proposed Nigeria Air in comparison to the current size of Virgin Atlantic?"... It's only when/if it is established that both airlines are of similar size, that is the only time the comparison by Mr Mustafa Obi would be meaningful.

Oga I'm only defending common sense here and trying to promote fact based arguments.

How many planes would be in their fleet? = You do not know.
Would they be a regional carrier or a long-haul trans-atlantic carrier? = You do not know
Virgin Atlantic currently has a fleet size of 39 planes = You do not know the proposed fleet size of the Nigeria Air.

Try and read through everything you wrote again, every single thing you wrote is an ASSUMPTION.

How can you make an assumption in your head, then automatically hold your ASSUMPTION as FACT, and then proceed to make public arguments and condemnations based purely on your assumption?... And then plof course when I or anyone else faults the logic in your argument, you accuse me of "defending Nigeria Air"? ...What ever happened to waiting and sourcing right info first before proceeding to make arguments and condemnations of everything?

LaudableXX:


Oga, there were no assumptions in my posts, only questions. Virgin Atlantic's fleet size, assets and destinations are a matter of public record. Nigeria Air's fleet size, destination and assets are totally unknown, or nowhere to be found. And you expect any rational logical person to swallow that Nigerian Air's valuation, hook, line & sinker? Oga, na wa for you, o!

obailala:
Good thing you know and acknowledge that you do not have any info about the proposed Nigeria Air. But the question I have is, "if you do not have any details of its fleet size, number of destinations etc, how exactly does it then make any sense to compare a something you have zero info on to Virgin?.... Cant you still see how pointless that comparison is?....

By the way I think I read somewhere that the plan is to have Nigeria Air cover up to 84 destinations; that already is double the coverage of Virgin. You and I still do not know the total number of planes Nigeria Air plans to acquire, but based on this sketchy information, you and Mustafa already proceeded to make economic judgements and comparison between Nigeria air and Virgin. Once again, can you still not see how pointless your comparison is?

Firefire:
......Good luck on your enterprise of defense.

“*Air Nigeria/Nigeria Air*

Ordinarily, it should gladdens the heart when plans were set to revive Nigeria air fleet for commercial purpose.

But critical comparison to other countries with national fleets has propounded these questions begging for answers.

One might ask why the rush to unveil a logo when there are no aircraft's, personnel's, websites and other functional apparatus on ground? Is this another gimmicks to score points.

*Time shall tell*


- Who are the owners of the *95%* equity?

- Why is the ownership shrouded in secrecy?

- Why is *5%* equity holder funding the business?

- Where are these fundings *$8m, $300m coming from? Budget? Borrowing*?

- Are the aircrafts under lease agreement? *If yes, for how many years*?

- If it's private investment, why would a *5%* equity holder determine the *name, logo and other trademarks* of the airline?

- Since it's private sector driven, why not adopt any of the existing airlines in Nigeria as the National carrier?

- Are there sinister motives? Sure! Time shall tell.

Facts that you may need to compare notes:

Other National carriers in Africa.

*Kenya*
Fleet size: *40*
Kenya Airways is *48.9%* owned by the Government of Kenya

*Ethiopia*
Fleet size: *100*
Ethiopian Airways is *100%* owned by government.

*Morocco*
Fleet size: *56*
Royal Air Maroc is *100%* owned by government of Morocco

*South Africa*
Fleet size: *47*
South African Airways is *100%* owned by Government of South Africa.

*Rwanda*
Fleet size: *12*
Rwandair is *99%* owned by the Government of Rwanda

*Tunisia*
Fleet size: *29*
Tunisair The company is *74%* owned by the Tunisian government

*Egypt*
Fleet size: *54*
Egypt Air is *100%* owned by the Government of Egypt

*Nigeria Air*
Fleet size: *Unknown*
Nigeria Air is *5%* owned by the government .

Even the British Airways was *solely owned* by the British Government until it was privatised in *1987*.

So, where are we?” - copied

kmariko:
Here's the complete quote from the Africanews link the op presented

" initial capital is likely to be in the range of $US 150 to 300 million, invested in tranches over time from start up through the first years of operation,” a government document stated.

It said the government will provide initial capital but did not state the sum or give further details.

The government will “facilitate the process for opening up the capital of the airline to private sector financial investors”, the document stated.

No where was it stated that the 5% was for the initial start up cost.

Secondly, it clearly stated that the government will provide the initial capital.

Third, the estimation left rooms for cost over runs as there was no clear time frame when the government will stop the funding..

Fact remains that the proposal is still murky and lacks transparency.

Chile obi might be right in his initial assessment until the government proves otherwise.

LaudableXX:

Oga, you read that Nigeria Air is to have 84 destinations? Where? Please post the url and link, so we can all read and verify. I repeat: No rational, sensible, logical adult would accept the valuation of a non-existent airline whose assets, fleet etc are unknown, especially if it is an entity that has not earned any revenue, when it is compared with those of an existing airline with a balance sheet, whose existing fleet, destinations and asses are well-known. I believe in verifiable facts and figures.

You are free to write another long epistle to justify your inane stand. Kindly do not quote me when next you do so. I do not argue with those whose views are based on a flawed premise.

obailala:
This man clearly still does not understand the futulity of comparing something he knows nothing about with something else whose facts and figures can be verified. It seems you're just more interested in 'winning an online argument' without even paying attentionto what's being talked about.

Nigeria air is in the conceptual stage. A figure of $300million has been mentioned. Neither you nor I can confirm if this $300m represents 5% of the full proposed investment or if the $300m is the full figure. We both do not also know the proposed fleet size of the new airline, and we do not even have details of the proposed travel destinations. In summary, we both do not have any details of the proposed airline (correct me if I'm wrong on this).

So if we all acknowledge that we do not have details on the proposed airline, vis a vis its fleet size, type of planes, travel destinations etc, then on what basis are you and Mustafa Chike Obi comparing an 'UNKNOWN' to Virgin Atlantic to arrive at your conclusion that its value is suspicious?....

How exactly is this my point so difficult to understand to warrant your subtle jabs?

LaudableXX:


Didn't I ask you not to quote me again, with your inane comments? Mustafa Chike-Obi made a comparison. So did a few of us, here. And you want to muzzle our views, by claiming that nobody has a right to make comparisons, because the total details of the proposed airline are unknown? If the details are unknown, what informed their start-up figure of 300 million USD? How did they arrive at that figure? How did they arrive at the 5% shares, that is expected to be Nigeria's equity shareholding? Are you saying Nigerians have no right to ask questions? Oga, if dem send you come, tell dem say you no find me....

I cannot agree with your views. And I am not interested in winning anything. Just get off my mentions. I have made my views known and I stand by them. If it upsets you too much.... then too bad!

obailala:
Thank you very much for finally getting close to comprehending the very simple message I was trying to pass across all along.... Heck! It took you so freakin long to get this close.... Learn to stop being unnecessarily paranoid and feeling the need to fight everyone you meet online. FYI, I did not say Nigerians had no right to ask questions, as a matter of fact, I repeatedly said the exavt opposite of that.

If only you had the littlest ability to comprehend before jumping to needless arguments, you would have noticed that the very first point I made on this thread (and which I've been trying to make) was that the right thing to do at this stage was to ASK QUESTIONS and get info so as to enable a more informed discussion on the topic, as opposed to just cropping up assumptions, assumptions, and then jumping to judgement and condemnation based on mere assumptions.

RevenGeMission:





Una do well weldone , with all your sense i doubt you own a business in reality the same way Dy/Dx is useless for you now is the same way your poly or Uni degree in economics and business administration is useless

Reality is different

LaudableXX:


Hehehe.....so this is how you are trying to save face, ba? Nobody is arguing with you, so stop deluding yourself. You are the one that has been chasing around my posts on this thread, repeatedly quoting me with your inane remarks. You first tried to muzzle any alternative views, by claiming nobody had a right to make comparisons between established airlines and Nigerian Air, which does not exist. Now, you have turned round to say something else. You are still splitting hairs trying to defend the indefensible, even when sane minds have pointed out the futility of your line of argument. Keep consoling yourself with your inane comments, while the rest of us keep laughing at your clueless attempts to defend Nigeria Air's valuation! Now, how many times do I have to repeat myself that you should stop quoting me in your lame responses? Na by force?

obailala:
Nope, I'm not trying to save any face, I'm still just trying to get simple education into your repellent skull. And yes you're right, I've been chasing you around the thread and the reason was cos I was just too shocked and embarrassed that a person with such command of English (which to a large extent depicts 'literacy') could not just read and comprehend a simple piece first before jumping to respond with attacks; I was obviously frustrated by your slow comprehension skills, so no thanks to you for that.

Like I said from the start of the thread, the thing sensible people do when they are availed with limited info is to ask more questions and seek for more details, not jumping to conclusions and passing pointless obviously prejudiced judgements. All I did on this thread was wonder why so many folks including yourself did not think it was necessary to first of all ask questions before proceeding to the all too familiar point of bashing. Like seriously, what sound person passes judgement before getting details if not for the many unbaked characters one meets online in Nigeria?

Meanwhile, he still keeps talking of Nigeria Air's valuation being flawed even though on the other hand, he admits he has no clue on the details of the deal; talk of premium buffoonery! And of course the classic comeback when you point out this poor logic is the accusation that "you are defending A or B"

obailala:
Thank you very much for finally getting close to comprehending the very simple message I was trying to pass across all along.... Heck! It took you so freakin long to get this close.... Learn to stop being unnecessarily paranoid and feeling the need to fight everyone you meet online. FYI, I did not say Nigerians had no right to ask questions, as a matter of fact, I repeatedly said the exavt opposite of that.

If only you had the littlest ability to comprehend before jumping to needless arguments, you would have noticed that the very first point I made on this thread (and which I've been trying to make) was that the right thing to do at this stage was to ASK QUESTIONS and get info so as to enable a more informed discussion on the topic, as opposed to just cropping up assumptions, assumptions, and then jumping to judgement and condemnation based on mere assumptions.

Great2017:

Can uncertainty have better value than certainty if we are to reason in a logical manner? What we are saying is there is little or no business sense for a start-up business to have more value than an established enterprise. The reason being that the risks are higher. The Nigerian Government needs to explain to us why they feel they are not being short-changed in this partnership as already pointed by the anology. Or is it that there is something fishing about the venture?

izombie:
that guy just made you eat humble pie but instead of you to thank him for educating on why an existing business is costlier than a start-up, you dey here dey yan rubbish and showcasing your zombeism.

Alariiwo:


Don't mind them..

We've left the system in the hands of unscrupulous elements for long.

Nigerians are awake now and we support a national carrier that will crash air fares and take back control of Aviation sector for Nigerians.