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Re: Gombe Muslim Students Have Put Me In Sorrow By Killing My Friend by stimulus(m): 11:17pm On Apr 11, 2007
The following is largely an online article that may have relevance on the present topic. Thereafter will follow my concerns as to the disturbing nature of the meaninglessness of a book that is untouchable, let alone understood.


Q. Are there special rules that one must follow when handling the Quran?

Muslims regard the Qur'an as the literal word of God, as revealed by the Angel Gabriel to the Prophet Muhammad. The revelation was made in the Arabic language, and the recorded text in Arabic has not changed since the time of its revelation 1400+ years ago. Although modern printing presses are used to distribute the Qur'an worldwide, the printed Arabic text of the Qur'an is still regarded as holy.

A. The Arabic text of the holy Quran, when printed in a book, is known as the mus-haf (literally, "the pages"wink. There are special rules that Muslims follow when handling, touching, or reading from the mus-haf.

The Qur'an itself states that only those who are clean and pure should touch the sacred text: "This is indeed a Holy Qur'an, in a book well-guarded, which none shall touch but those who are clean, " (56:77-79). The Arabic word translated here as "clean" is mutahiroon, a word that is also sometimes translated as "purified".

Some argue that this purity or cleanliness is of the heart, i.e. that only Muslim believers should handle the Qur'an. However, the majority of Islamic scholars interpret these verses to also refer to a physical cleanliness or purity, which is attained by making formal ablutions (wudu).

Therefore, most Muslims believe that only those who are physically clean through formal ablutions should touch the pages of the Qur'an.

As a result of this general understanding, the following "rules" are usually followed when handling the Qur'an:

1) One should make formal ablutions before handling the Qur'an or reading from its text.
2) One who is in need of a formal bath (after intercourse or menstrual bleeding) should not touch the Qur'an until after bathing.
3) A non-Muslim should not handle the sacred text, but may listen to tapes of the Qur'an or handle a translation or exegesis.
4) Those who are unable to handle the Qur'an based on these reasons should either avoid handling the Qur'an completely, or in necessity hold it while using some sort of barrier covering the hand, such as a cloth or a glove.

In addition, when one is not reading or reciting from the Qur'an, it should be closed and stored a clean, respectable place. Nothing should be placed on top of it, nor should it ever be placed on the floor or in a bathroom. To further show respect for the sacred text, those who are writing it should use clear, elegant handwriting, and those who are reading from it should use clear, beautiful voices.

In summary, Muslims believe that the Holy Qur’an should be handled with the deepest respect. However, God is All-Merciful and we cannot be held responsible for what we do in ignorance or by mistake. The Qur'an itself says: "Our Lord! Punish us not if we forget or fall into error" (2:286). Therefore, there is no sin in Islam on the person who mishandles the Qur'an by accident or without the realization of wrongdoing.

(article found on this weblink about Properly Handling the Quran).
Re: Gombe Muslim Students Have Put Me In Sorrow By Killing My Friend by stimulus(m): 11:21pm On Apr 11, 2007
Now, I have the premonition that a lot of reaction will follow that article. However, these are the issues I find really disturbing:

Some argue that this purity or cleanliness is of the heart, i.e. that only Muslim believers should handle the Qur'an. However, the majority of Islamic scholars interpret these verses to also refer to a physical cleanliness or purity, which is attained by making formal ablutions (wudu).

Therefore, most Muslims believe that only those who are physically clean through formal ablutions should touch the pages of the Qur'an.
- - -
3) A non-Muslim should not handle the sacred text, but may listen to tapes of the Qur'an or handle a translation or exegesis.
4) Those who are unable to handle the Qur'an based on these reasons should either avoid handling the Qur'an completely, or in necessity hold it while using some sort of barrier covering the hand, such as a cloth or a glove.

#1. In the first place, there is a general concensus that "only Muslim believers should handle the Qur'an." There are questions flying in all directions as to what this foreshadows. If non-Muslims are not to handle the Quran, then how does one find out for himself or herself what is actually written on its pages? Besides, doesn't the Quran itself invite people to read it? Quran 14 vs.52 says: "This is a clear message for mankind in order that they may be warned thereby" - but how can people be warned when they so-called message cannot be handled by those to who it was sent? Again, Q. 4 vs.82 states: "Do they not consider the Qur'an (with care)? Had it been from other Than Allah, they would surely have found therein Much discrepancy." Big question: how are we as non-Muslims ever going to "consider" a Quran that no one can handle, let alone be allowed to surely find the many discrepancies therein?

#2. It is also claimed that the Quran should never be placed on the floor. Abeg una, years back I saw Muslim local book hawkers on the dirty streets of Kaduna, Kano and Abuja (Julius Berger junction before the bridge was built) who spread copies of the Quran on the floor, most of which gathered dust like no man's business! Did the imams of those places suddenly wake up to change the rules recently by pretending to look the other way?

#3. Now, what happens if a Muslim desecrates the untouchable Quran? You guessed right - the rules are altered! Qur'an 2:286 comes to the rescue: "Our Lord! Punish us not if we forget or fall into error!" How many Muslims have been beaten to death, stripped naked and burnt alive for desecrating the Qur'an one way or another? I read a gentleman by the username belloti offering to defend the indefensible, by stating the following:

belloti:

The kids were wrong, she doesnt deserve to die but there are tendencies for things like that to happen when mistakes are made.

"Tendencies," you call it? And what mistakes are you referring to, that Quran 2:286 applies to Muslims who get away with the same "mistakes"; whereas, others must suffer such hideous "tendencies" for the same "errors"?

Well, one thing that keeps baffling me is that, with all the hot air around the untouchable Quran, it is no more than a meaningless book, especially as Muslims themselves claim that the Qur'an is no longer that word of Allah as soon as it is translated into another language!
Re: Gombe Muslim Students Have Put Me In Sorrow By Killing My Friend by 4Play(m): 11:24pm On Apr 11, 2007
In some ways I like this Islamic philosophy grin If someone disagrees with me,I behead him grin Instead of engaging in arguments,I just behead the person and the best part-I get to go to heaven(72 virgins cool )
Re: Gombe Muslim Students Have Put Me In Sorrow By Killing My Friend by Nobody: 11:27pm On Apr 11, 2007
I wonder if we can find out if this particular koran that is the fungating abscess in this case was an Arabic koran or a translated text?
The sad story of this death is that the reporter stated that the offended koran was never produced!!
Hmm!!!
Re: Gombe Muslim Students Have Put Me In Sorrow By Killing My Friend by Nobody: 11:28pm On Apr 11, 2007
4 Play:

In some ways I like this Islamic philosophy grin If someone disagrees with me,I behead him grin Instead of engaging in arguments,I just behead the person and the best part-I get to go to heaven(72 virgins cool )



72 virgins with endless supply of hymen
Isn't that a perverts dream?
God have mercy
Re: Gombe Muslim Students Have Put Me In Sorrow By Killing My Friend by Nobody: 11:36pm On Apr 11, 2007
I quote,not my writing please.

Modern apologists of Islam try to downplay the evident materialism and sexual implications of such descriptions, but, as the Encyclopaedia of Islam says, even orthodox Muslim theologians such as al Ghazali (died 1111 CE) and Al-Ash'ari (died 935 CE) have "admitted sensual pleasures into paradise". The sensual pleasures are graphically elaborated by Al-Suyuti (died 1505 ), Koranic commentator and polymath. He wrote: "Each time we sleep with a houri we find her virgin. Besides, the penis of the Elected never softens. The erection is eternal; the sensation that you feel each time you make love is utterly delicious and out of this world and were you to experience it in this world you would faint. Each chosen one [ie Muslim] will marry seventy [sic] houris, besides the women he married on earth, and all will have appetising vaginas."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/saturday_review/story/0,3605,631332,00.html


I guess they have something to look forward to
Re: Gombe Muslim Students Have Put Me In Sorrow By Killing My Friend by alexis(m): 1:40am On Apr 12, 2007
Aboki Belloti,

Alexis is a regular nairalander, if you are offended by my post about your religion, put bombs around you and blow yourself up, I am sure allah will reserve more than 72 virgins for only you. If you don't want to go to heaven yet, take a chill pill and act civilized, even if it's for awhile.

I am not surprised by your attitude & posts - you are only displaying the fruits of your savage religion. What can I appreciate from your one-sided analysis mallam belloti? - THAT YOU HAVE REFUSED TO SAY WHAT YOUR MUSLIM FAITHFULS DID TO AN INNOCENT WOMAN IS WRONG?

What mistake did this woman make Mallam Belloti? is it that she was a christian or what? Call a spade a spade man; put your feet on the ground and be honest even when it comes to your belief. For the record - believing in something that is wrong and even when you are 100% honest about it doesn't make it right.
Re: Gombe Muslim Students Have Put Me In Sorrow By Killing My Friend by Nobody: 1:46am On Apr 12, 2007
I read somewhere where a commentator was talking about Islam and he said and I quote

"How can a religion that is all about peace turn it's staunch adherents into animals,is it possible to take aspirin to cure a headache and end up with cancer as a side effect?"
Re: Gombe Muslim Students Have Put Me In Sorrow By Killing My Friend by debosky(m): 1:52am On Apr 12, 2007
We all know the peace thing a fallacy, All the other staunch 'Musulumi Ododo' as my Yoruba brethren call them - babs787 and co have not come here, instead they keep arguing about whether Christ was crucified or not!

Tendencies for stuff like this to happen?? May God have mercy on you and your religion of death.
Re: Gombe Muslim Students Have Put Me In Sorrow By Killing My Friend by dblock(m): 4:09am On Apr 12, 2007
Islam is a religion gone wrong
Re: Gombe Muslim Students Have Put Me In Sorrow By Killing My Friend by ibrahim007: 11:32am On Apr 12, 2007
to me ALLAH[s.w.t] is the master of all jugdements,no one has the right to jugde a fellow human being.Te Quran contains the word of ALLAH[s.w.t] so thereforea believer who fears ALLAH[s.w.t] should always protect it at all times.I sympathize with he family of the deceased,for the little boy lookig at him on the papers i really felt for him.But ALLAH[s.w.t] is the best jugde.No one hould critize islam for one person's act though we muslims are one family.
Re: Gombe Muslim Students Have Put Me In Sorrow By Killing My Friend by batu: 1:18pm On Apr 12, 2007
ibrahim007:

to me ALLAH[s.w.t] is the master of all jugdements,no one has the right to jugde a fellow human being.Te Quran contains the word of ALLAH[s.w.t] so thereforea believer who fears ALLAH[s.w.t] should always protect it at all times.I sympathize with he family of the deceased, for the little boy lookig at him on the papers i really felt for him.But ALLAH[s.w.t] is the best jugde. No one hould critize islam for one person's act though we muslims are one family.

@All,
Here comes another "closed-circuit" reasoning by Mallam (James Bond) Ibrahim007. What he has just said is that he "sympathises with the deceased and the family, but what's got to be-got to be." Isn't it? In other words, dont criticise Islam for what anybody does in the name of allah of Islam, because we are all one family and we support each other no matter what.
Well, we have billions of true believers who do not fear your idol called 'allah' who is nothing more than one of the fallen angels or nephilims; as such we will judge both Islam and allah "itself" by faith. And the whole world regardless of faith, belief or unbelief will also judge Islam and 'allah' for the inherent immorality, pervesions and wickedness.
Re: Gombe Muslim Students Have Put Me In Sorrow By Killing My Friend by Nobody: 1:30pm On Apr 12, 2007
ibrahim007:

to me ALLAH[s.w.t] is the master of all jugdements,no one has the right to jugde a fellow human being.

It is not a question of what you say but what allah says. Allah says to behead the infidels, apes and pigs; the Gombe girls did just that!

ibrahim007:

Te Quran contains the word of ALLAH[s.w.t] so thereforea believer who fears ALLAH[s.w.t] should always protect it at all times.

Is it not hypocritical that the same muslims have no qualms destroying bibles that contain the words of Jehovah?

ibrahim007:

I sympathize with he family of the deceased,for the little boy lookig at him on the papers i really felt for him.But ALLAH[s.w.t] is the best jugde.No one hould critize islam for one person's act though we muslims are one family.

Yet another hypocrite! You sympathize with the family, you feel for the motherless 10 month old baby YET no one should criticize criminals for murdering in the name of allah? Are we still surprised that we have yet to hear a single word of condemnation from the sultan and other amorphous islamic groups who threatened fire and brimstone over the removal of the ajami? Are they not all one big family of terrorists, murderers, liars and hypocrites?

Welcome to allah's big family of slaves.
Re: Gombe Muslim Students Have Put Me In Sorrow By Killing My Friend by 9ja4eva: 7:49am On Apr 13, 2007
What have they done to the students?Hope they are not moving about freely?
Re: Gombe Muslim Students Have Put Me In Sorrow By Killing My Friend by olutomiwa(m): 11:33am On Apr 13, 2007
islam religion of peace MY FOOT,where is the peace in the religion,when minors are already killing people of other religions,may all the murderers and thier collaborators RUST IN HELL,WHILE THE SOUL OF YOUR FRIEND REST IN PEACE.
Re: Gombe Muslim Students Have Put Me In Sorrow By Killing My Friend by gbadex1(m): 4:52pm On Apr 13, 2007
i can bet my ass those criminal students are moving around scot free. God would surely avenge the death of that woman
Re: Gombe Muslim Students Have Put Me In Sorrow By Killing My Friend by 9ja4eva: 3:27am On Apr 14, 2007
I tell u oh.
Re: Gombe Muslim Students Have Put Me In Sorrow By Killing My Friend by alexis(m): 10:48pm On Apr 14, 2007
The blood of the children of God calls to Him everyday and justice will be done. Our God never fights a battle and looses. That being said - God loves mankind, where you are a muslim or not and He wants to save them, this is the time of grace - I pray that God will touch their hearts and save them. Glory be to God that the gospel is reaching the middle east, people in pakistan and other arab counties are getting healed an the gospel is spreading, no amount to Arab dollars can stop the Word of God.

While we pray for our muslim friends, we should show them the fallacy of their religion in love. We should be wise as the serpent when doing this, we should be soft when they are soft and hard when they are hard.
Re: Gombe Muslim Students Have Put Me In Sorrow By Killing My Friend by 9ja4eva: 11:36pm On Apr 14, 2007
Nice post.
Re: Gombe Muslim Students Have Put Me In Sorrow By Killing My Friend by Horus(m): 12:34am On Apr 16, 2007


These are photographs of the 22 people on the FBI's "Most Wanted Terrorists" list
Re: Gombe Muslim Students Have Put Me In Sorrow By Killing My Friend by 9ja4eva: 2:42am On Apr 16, 2007
All Muslims?Na wa oh
Re: Gombe Muslim Students Have Put Me In Sorrow By Killing My Friend by nossycheek(f): 10:48am On Apr 16, 2007
72 virgins embarassed
What a materialistic and perversed religion!
Re: Gombe Muslim Students Have Put Me In Sorrow By Killing My Friend by Nobody: 11:53pm On Apr 17, 2007
Horus:



These are photographs of the 22 people on the FBI's "Most Wanted Terrorists" list


Hmm,here alone we're talking (72 x 22) virgins=1,584
That is a whole lot of 9 year olds,poor girls cry cry cry
Re: Gombe Muslim Students Have Put Me In Sorrow By Killing My Friend by 4Play(m): 11:56pm On Apr 17, 2007
babyosisi:

Hmm,here alone we're talking 72 multiplied by 22 virgins.
Kai,poor virgins grin grin cry cry

With all the suicide bombing happening in Iraq,Afghanistan,e.t.c,they must be running out of virgins to distribute grin

They might start considering slutty women
Re: Gombe Muslim Students Have Put Me In Sorrow By Killing My Friend by Nobody: 11:57pm On Apr 17, 2007
4 Play:

They might start considering slutty women

you no well,lol
Sorry I modified my post on you
Re: Gombe Muslim Students Have Put Me In Sorrow By Killing My Friend by belloti(m): 12:30pm On Apr 18, 2007
So much hatred and so much venom against islam. We muslims loves you all and your continued hatred can not get you any result but more anguish and frustration. what is needed here is understanding and brotherhood. I don't hate anyone but i understand your anger about the recent events in the country especially the brutal murder of the christian sister in gombe. you don't seem to accept my condemnation of the youth and my condolences to the family but God almighty knows how i feel about it and thats what matters to me now.

Beccia and alexis seem to be the new aggressors on the bloc. i welcome you guys and look forward to having a more fruitful discussion with you both.

I still don't understand what FBI list is doing on this thread but i suppose it was meant to spite the muslims and to confirm the global anti-islam conspiracy. I wish the world get to know more about the real islam, the peaceful and loving Islam not the popular misconception about islam
Re: Gombe Muslim Students Have Put Me In Sorrow By Killing My Friend by Nobody: 2:58pm On Apr 18, 2007
Mallam,there is no Islamic conspiracy,none at all.
Two days ago there was a massacre at VT,nobody is going around dogging Asians and Koreans because the guy did not do this as a religious obligation unlike these Islamic hoodlums.

You cannot tell us you regret the murder of this woman and at the same time tell us allah says to kill for such actions of desecration
Keep your sorry deceptive talks to yourself,we already have seen through you!!
Re: Gombe Muslim Students Have Put Me In Sorrow By Killing My Friend by Nobody: 3:46pm On Apr 18, 2007
belloti:

I still don't understand what FBI list is doing on this thread but i suppose it was meant to spite the muslims and to confirm the global anti-islam conspiracy. I wish the world get to know more about the real islam, the peaceful and loving Islam not the popular misconception about islam

Over 120 people killed in separate bomb attacks in Iraq today alone. Yep that is just one more example of the "peaceful and loving islam". Violence is just a misconception.

Perhaps the FBI wont have a long list of muslims if the criminals did not spend all their time and resources plotting how to slaugher more innocent people in the blood thirsty name of allah.
To call this a "global anti-islam conspiracy" is to play taqiyya!
Re: Gombe Muslim Students Have Put Me In Sorrow By Killing My Friend by alexis(m): 3:56pm On Apr 18, 2007
I understand belloti frustration.

He is trying to be civil but is betrayed by his religion. How can you expect a religion that is militant in nature to be peaceful. Perhaps we have to consult the hadith and koran to demonstrate the true nature of Islam.

I am reading BBC at the moment and here is the first paragraph on the article

"Some 25 Islamic militants have been killed in an offensive near the city of Kano in Nigeria's north, the army says.

Militants held an area after attacking a police station on Tuesday. Nine Islamists have been captured, as well as a quantity of arms, the army says"

Only God knows what next they will do, perhaps they want the star and moon cresent to be on every building in the country before they are happy. Belloti, so you should know, violence is not a monopoly for any one religion.

I am yet to see you rebuke the killing of the lady in honest and true terms. To do that, you should start with what motivated the muslim students to her - perhaps then, we can accept that you are offering an honest apology.

Tell us what understanding and brotherhood you want - no one has attacked any muslim or killed any muslim, it's your folks that are doing the harm. Even with all that, we are still talking and talking, no christian has burnt down any mosque. Expect you don't want any analysis of the koran. In my view - it is necessary to identify the motive of killing an innocent mother and the continious hatred for christians and christianity in general.
Re: Gombe Muslim Students Have Put Me In Sorrow By Killing My Friend by olutomiwa(m): 4:09pm On Apr 18, 2007
Horus:



These are photographs of the 22 people on the FBI's "Most Wanted Terrorists" list

see dem face ANIMALS IN HUMAN SKIN.
Re: Gombe Muslim Students Have Put Me In Sorrow By Killing My Friend by Nobody: 6:40pm On Apr 18, 2007
I don't envy his situation.
On one hand he has to agree with allah on killings for apostacy and koran "desecration" on the other hand he has to condemn those who actually killed for desecration.
Poor boy.
Bellotti not your fault,you were born a Muslim but God gave you a brain,please use it and see how ridiculous you sound.
Re: Gombe Muslim Students Have Put Me In Sorrow By Killing My Friend by belloti(m): 12:29pm On Apr 19, 2007
I don't need your symphathy baby. i am proud to be a muslim and proud of my religious obligations. Even if i was born a non-muslim and knowing what i know about islam now, i will still have converted to Islam.

I very much agree with islam positions on any aspect of life but i disagree with reckless and brutal murder of any innocent soul. i have said enough about the killing in gombe and there is nothing more to add except if you want me to renounce islam to appease you and your fellow demi-gods.

We have a situation in the world where some extremists kills in the name of religion, we wish they don't do that but we can only pray for God guidance. Everyone is accountable for his action, islam does not send anyone to kill innocent soul, just like the majority of armed robbers and cultists who are mostly christians. These are bad eggs who are beyond our reach.

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