opokonwa:



I found out that a good number of my entrepreneur role models, whom I had acquired books on their lives and success stories were either occultists or athiests.
Not all but a good number of them (both blacks and whites).
A sour point in my research on wealthy people, wealth creation and notable names in various fields of endeavour.
This is aside from them being very hardworking and highly-driven people

Some of them were bold enough to declare it in their books.
Others I discovered by researching some notable occult websites that had links to them and filtered the names of some their influential members.

It got to a point, some of those groups offered me membership in return for stupendous wealth.
They encountered 'the wrong candidate'.
I dropped my curiosity there and then.

Reminds me of the 'selling my soul to the devil' cry from Kuwena.

However, I believe that Christ is the head of all principalities and powers as declared in the Bible, precisely in Colossians 1:16
I also reasoned that if those peeps could trade their own souls to these 'principalities and powers' just to gain immense wealth and indomitable influence in their respective industries and trades,
Then, why shouldn't I trade my own soul to the Head of them all; Christ, who can do better?

If their own god can guarantee them immense wealth and 'success' as the world sees it. _{in place of their own souls}
Then mine should be able to do better, being the Head of them all.

Besides, my soul will be with me.
I do not need to lose it.

I only need to understand how to follow HIM
And what my purpose in life is.

Then I will get to where the farthest man or woman ever got to.
That process is part of what I am going through now.

@Opoks
You simply hit the nail on the head here. What those sources (books and occultic web pages) may not have bothered to tell us is what finally became of those members of theirs who were seemingly "rich, successful, wealthy, " The devil's gift is never free, and he always ends up taking back much more that what he "gave". Chips down, I would never really consider a man as successful, who did not identify himself with God and serve Him while on earth. The Bible is fundamentally clear on what happens to a nation that forgets God (Ps. 9:17, and Prov. 14:34), how much more a man who turns his back on his very Creator. What is the whole essence of life anyway? Is it just to make wealth? Could a man who has lost his own inner peace still add meaning to other lives?

@Kuwena
There's actually no contradiction with what the preacher woman said. Jesus was not actually poor, the Bible says, rather, that although He was rich, He was made poor, so that we, through His poverty, could be made rich. (2Cor 8:9). In other words,
1. He was made poor, but was not innately poor. His poverty was His free choice to which He consented
2. His poverty was with a purpose: So that we, His followers and worshippers, could be made rich.

But as His followers, also, His values should be our values. So, we're going to frequently choose to be poor so that others can be rich. The problem comes when many people (Preacher and parishioner alike) mistake wealth for materialism. Paul made it clearer when he stated that, though poor, they were making others rich. A Christian who has not handled wealth may never be sure how he would behave if he were to be rich. But one who has been blessed by God and yet has not allowed himself to be carried away with the riches, has maintained a simple lifestyle, content with what he needs and more interested in being useful to others on earth, has proven himself faithful.

I actually don't know from where the concept of religion being synonymous with poverty came from. Could it be because Jesus talked of preaching the good news "to the poor"? Or might it be because over the ages, the poor and oppressed have usually found solace in the hope of a better life in the hereafter? Well,,  even religious leaders have also oppressed their members wrongly, feeding themselves fat and not caring about the welfare of the flock, but Christianity is NOT a religion. It's a relationship with God, a walk with the Lord Jesus. It's God looking for man, as against all the religions of the earth that teach various ways by which man may look for God.

Kuwena, You may have passed through some fires in life, but I offered you some 2 keys a few days ago. have You really sat to consider them? You were maltreated by your uncle, and you complained of rejection, now you are being admired and reverred by colleagues at work, and you still complain of being in the limelight? Can't You see that God is the One ordering your steps to the point where You can fulfil His plans for your life? You are not the first to have turned your back on God, anyway, and may not be the last. Guess what? Even in the Bible, when people like Elijah, Jeremiah and Jonah felt like shouting at God (and actually did!) He didn't strike them dead instantly, but lovingly guided them through that crisis phase of their lives.

I advise you to retrace your steps and return to Him, you need His peace in your heart.


@Others
We're really getting down to some great ideas across board here. The brainstorming sessions are already on, and am sure others will be coming up with brainwaves as we go along. Opoks, what did You finally conclude with that former classmate of yours?

[size=55pt]Up Gunners! [/size]

I'm sure say we no go hear word again 2day!
@tommy, you fit open champagne? _{'cause you love Gunners pass your job.}
@Kenosky & Skeelo, make una no make too much noise o!

The one I hear around my street last night don do me.
I been dey wonder whether na Nigerian team dey play _{as fans went gaga!}

Speaking of Skeelo, the debate don carry am throway?!

@Kuwena,
I didn't respond to your post yesterday 'cause I had to leave the office for other engagements
I won't disprove with a back-hand everything you said; you have a right to freedom of speech.

Speaking on inferiority complex, it is understandable and natural for a black person to feel inferior to a white man _{at least to a certain age.}
I grew up seeing electricity and knowing that it was invented by a white man, the same thing about cars, tvs, the water cistern I used at home, etc.
I read Physics, Chemistry and Biology in School (even though I later settled for Marketing), all the theories and formulas I learnt in class were invented by white men. You watch their films and they show you an environment neater and apparently more civil their yours.
So it's natural to feel inferior to a white man 'cause you grow up seeing and knowing that almost every comfort and everything 'good' comes from them.

But for how long?

I grew up in the same world like you Kuwena. But I got to a certain age and consciousness and began to see that these people (the white men) are human just like I am.
They shit like I do . They have red blood (and not blue or gold) running in their veins. They experience all the psychological and physiological challenges I do, so why should I feel inferior??

So I had to talk myself out of the negative impression and inferiority complex which my world has forced me to accept.
And this is the Opoks! you see today; confident, super-confident and ever wanting to prove the odds wrong.

I expected you to have shed off that complex by now Kuwena.
Every African, indeed every black man goes through it (because we are living in the world that sees us as 'under-dogs')
But your not having shed that complex up till now, is what baffles me
I think everyone has his or her time.

@Kuwena

'I love you' is a common expression with Americans (not even with the British)
It's like saying 'how far?' in Naija.
Every society has a parlance that goes naturally with their social structure.
That Sade, a black American screamed 'I love you' 31 times or whatever does not necessarily imply that she fell in love with you.
She fell in love with your work instead and like I said earlier, 'I love you' is one of the parlance that Americans express freely.

We (in Naija) are not very emotional people by culture and tradition, so you should not expect an 'I love you' from anybody.
We are often very cript and conservative in our emotions. So get it? Every society is different. We cannot throw away our own cultural identity just to copy America or Americans.
I must confess that sometimes, I would feel like giving my mum, dad or parley a hug but it just won't come out.
Simply because I was not brought up that way. The Nigerian way has become part of me after all, I am a typical Nigerian.

Again, let us not judge words literally, some words, depending on the society you find yourself actually have a different meaning from the literal interpretation.
Thus when a Nigerian blurts out openly 'that he or she envies you', I don't think it is a threat.
I think that the person in question is thrilled by your brillance and wished at that moment that he had as much brillance as you did.
I could say that to you. Would it then mean that you're now a 'gold fish' who has no hiding place.
Try to understand Nigerians and what Nigerians would mean in some particular words, after all, you are a Nigerian.

Again, can't you take yabs from people?
Your friend puts on a pair of reading glasses to yab you 'cause he probably thinks you are one 'Efiko' and you are freaking out?
Then you cannot stand me
'Cause I yab people silly; in fact in that area, 'I flow like Orionocco Flow!'
One minute I am yabbing you, the next minute I'm talking serious.
Yes, I have hurt people who could not stand my yabs but I've also made numerous friends wiho love my sense of humour.
You actually sounded 'British' in that line b/c the few Americans I've met have a better sense of humour than that.
Or wait till you meet 'Crazy Kenosky' in the flesh. The young guy throws yabs at random and at everyone like a truly 'crazy one'
At times, I myself marveled at his sense of humour. At other times, I 'attacked' him with mine
Guy, get a sense of humuor, it is the Nigerian way.
_{Except you have a chip on your shoulder, that is when you cannot take simple yabs.}

I want to go to a place where I am accepted; a place where when I ask a question I am not seen to be too inquisitive; where if I give a suggestion I don't seem to know too much; a place where no one has to call me Mr. Sam, instead of simply Sam, or Oga in derision. I want to go to a place where when I enter a room, someone shouts from one end: 'Hey there! What's popping?' And he runs towards me, and we lock in embrace; then he slaps my back and makes a snide comment; I give him a piquant rejoinder, and he laughs, then he says, 'You're a-okay, bro!' And then we go buy sharwamas and lounge, rap up the chicks, and hang out at the gym. I want to go to a place where my intelligence is adored and not disdained; a place where people hug me seven times at least, each day.

from Kuwena

On this, I would say, 'Create your own Nigerian dream' _{if you have one}
Don't let the values and the roles that society force on you limit you.
You can define what your character will be and be the influence that 'forces' others to accept you the way you are.
This is what people like Opoks! have done with their world.

But it's obvious at this point that your destiny lies in America _{by your own choice}

I wish you well.

kuwena:


Oh, how I recall the day we went to represent our school at Abuja! There was an American delegation there. Sade came (that's the woman that saw my book and kept declaring shameless love). We had finished the session on Public relations and were coming out for recess, when I ran into her. As soon as she saw me, she threw herself at me with such passion and squeezed me to her breast and said: 'My son!' A woman I did not know from Adam was calling me her son. I felt so loved, so wanted, so full of a sense of belonging. No rancour; no competition, no jealousy, just love. She said, 'My son!' This has never happened to me before.

O boy! Na only breast she squeezed you with?

Anyway Kuwena, you need love, I would have felt the same way you did if an American (fully loaded) lady gave me that breast job
I understand sha!

kuwena:


Hmmm. I am praying feverishly that I will go home this year, home to where I belong, home where I do not have to be apologetic for being who and what I am; home where my heart is.

Guy! I wish you well!

kuwena:


And may the day come when the psychoanalytic renaissance I spoke about for the black man be a reality. I have no friends here. Not even on this thread do I truly feel at home; not anywhere in Nigeria do I feel loved and appreciated; maybe because the average Nigerian is so busy envying each and everyone else, that he can have no time to love; or maybe because love simply does not exist. Maybe. But these days I am learning not to care for love. I am thinking outside the box, trying to claim for myself a certain level of individual success that the black man probably does not permit himself to attain to, in view of all the pervading pettiness. In spite of his religion. Which brings me to another issue.

Now, this is an insult to Nigerians including me.
This is one of the reasons why I've quarrelled with you in the past.

You still feel that the average Nigerian dwells in envy (including Opoks!, Adrianic, Alfaprime, Uche, Kenosky and everyone on and off this thread? )

Now I feel this is a psychological issue that you have to deal with.
Because of a mentality like this, many peeps who could not stand you or your take on their identity (their nationality) left the thread.
It's b/c peeps like me no send you, that is why I can look you in the face and tell you my mind.

You have nothing worth envying _{at least from my point of view}
I do not know why you cannot quit this 'insecurity' of yours.

Maybe what you need is to get out! get out! get out of this country!
But then, this image of yours that you would be projecting to Americans will be so untrue.
But coming from you and considering that you write well, they might begin to believe you.

I wish that Opoks! will be around, anytime you try to give Nigeria bad PR with your stories.

On religion Kuwena,

I will deal with it if and when I have more time.

Right now, let me go do better thing.
_{zoom . . . zoom! . . . zoom!! . . . zzzzzzzzzzzzooooooooooooooooooooooooommmmmmmmmmmmm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!}

kuwena:


Most times, I confess, I am tempted to say this: it appears to me that the black man is inferior. I beg you, Opoks dear, not to crucify me for saying this, but that has been my experience. Or could it just be that I have the misfortune of always encountering the wrong people?

**highlighted points - Are you referring to yourself here, or the average Nigerian? Cos, a man's interpretation of his environment is only a reflection of himself. A cheerful person sees his environment as a happy place. A sad person sees his environment as a melancholic place. An inferior person sees his everyone else as , Like the saying goes, if the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to treat everything like a nail.

kuwena:

I said to myself: Where can I go to and be ordinary, and belong, and fit in and roll with the crowds

why would you want to be ordinary, why would you want to fit in? For someone that wants to be rich and famous, i think this is a smokescreen, , and not a portrayal of who you really are. I beg to ask, kuwena, who are you?


@ Alfaprime, Opoks!, Skeelo, Kenosky, Uchetobi, Kuwena, pgm, kenosym et al

"What's your definition of wealth?" At what point would you consider yourself as being wealthy?


www.folayemianifowoshe.

Sadly, Clinton defeated Obama in both Texas and Ohio. This breaks my heart. So bad. So so bad.

By KELLEY SHANNON / Associated Press


Hillary Rodham Clinton won Texas' Democratic primary Tuesday and rejuvenated her bid for her party's presidential nomination, while John McCain sealed the Republican nomination with a victory in the state.

McCain had been expected to win, but Clinton's victory came after a neck-and-neck battle with Barack Obama. Each Democratic senator won different minority voting blocs in a huge turnout election that wasn't definitive until midnight.

On a four-state primary night, Clinton also took Ohio and Rhode Island, while Obama won Vermont.

But the Texas race wasn't over with the primary vote: Caucuses were still proceeding — some just beginning — after midnight. Obama was the preferred candidate of 54 percent of caucus-goers in the handful of caucuses reporting.

Democratic Party officials suspended their count of the caucus results around 1 a.m. Wednesday with plans to resume later in the morning.

The two candidates saw their best results in parts of Texas where they spent the most time campaigning — Clinton in predominantly Hispanic South Texas and Obama in major metropolitan areas. Obama also won in the college towns of Austin, the state's most liberal city where the University of Texas is based, and in Brazos County, home to Texas A&M University.

"I am thrilled at this vote of confidence from the people of the great state of Texas, a state that I know and love," she said.

Before several hundred supporters in San Antonio, Obama said, "No matter what happens tonight we have near the same delegate lead as we had this morning and we are on our way to win the nomination," Obama said.

While Obama enjoyed a strong showing in Dallas-Fort Worth and Houston, Clinton held the advantage in Bexar, Nueces, Hidalgo and other counties in South Texas.

The strength of Clinton's lead among Hispanic voters was surprising, even though she was expected to fare better than Obama, said political scientist Jerry Polinard at the University of Texas-Pan American. "I think he expected to cut into her Latino vote a little bit more than that," he said.

Clinton had counted on Latinos, who comprised 30 percent of the Texas Democratic primary vote, to help her in a state where she and former President Bill Clinton have political ties dating to the early 1970s. She was winning two-thirds of the Hispanic vote.

Her familiarity in the Latino community and her continued message of "experience, experience, experience" ensured that she did well with Hispanics and kept the race close, Polinard said.

Exit polls showed that Obama won heavy margins among black voters, with a nearly 6-to-1 edge. Blacks accounted for 20 percent of the Democratic primary voters.

Overall voter turnout set a state record at 28 percent and some polling places were still open at midnight.

"This is a historic election, and you are seeing historic turnout," said state Democratic Party spokesman Hector Nieto as party officials monitored delegate counts and caucusing from their Austin headquarters.

In the Republican race, Texas gave John McCain the delegates he needed to clinch the GOP nomination. Mike Huckabee immediately dropped out of the presidential race and pledged he would work for party unity. The former Arkansas governor had hoped Texas' social and religious conservatives would boost his struggling candidacy.

But with McCain so close to sealing the nomination, there was little interest in the Republican race in Texas compared with the close Democratic presidential contest, and large numbers of voters in conservative pockets of the state opted to vote in the Democratic primary.

In Collin County, one of the state's most Republican counties, Democratic turnout was five times its normal size, according to local media reports.

McCain had the backing of state GOP elected officials, including Gov. Rick Perry, who originally endorsed moderate Republican Rudy Giuliani and irritated some in his social conservative base with that decision. His later choice of McCain — who's not a favorite of some hard-line conservatives — didn't go over well either with social conservatives, but that irritation didn't help Huckabee.

Texas will send 140 delegates to the national GOP convention, almost all awarded based on the primary vote.

Texans didn't wait until Election Day to vote in large numbers. An estimated 2 million people showed up during two weeks of early voting.

In a complex system, nicknamed the "Texas Two-step," Democrats have 193 pledged delegates to dole out based on primary vote results and a series of caucuses that began after the polls closed, some grossly delayed by long lines of voters still in line at midnight. Thirty-five others are unpledged delegates. Only voters who cast a ballot in the Democratic primary could take part in a caucus.

Texans didn't expect to figure prominently in the presidential nomination race after the Legislature declined last year to move up the state's primary to Feb. 5, leading to widespread speculation that the presidential nomination would be decided well before the race ever got to Texas.

At times the presidential race overshadowed other races on the Texas ballot.

State Rep. Rick Noriega led a crowd of four Democrats competing for their party's nomination for U.S. Senate. The winner will face Republican Sen. John Cornyn, who had nominal primary opposition.

In congressional races, Shelley Sekula Gibbs and former Cornyn aide Pete Olson led a field of 10 Houston-area Republicans to become the one to face U.S. Rep. Nick Lampson in the fall, while Republican Lyle Larson won the primary and will face Democratic incumbent Rep. Ciro Rodriguez in the fall.

Several Democratic Texas House members closely tied to Republican Speaker Tom Craddick tried to fight off primary challenges from opponents who took issue with their alliance with Craddick. The speaker, criticized from some legislators in both parties as too iron-fisted, took control of the House in 2003.

Republican primary voters approved three ballot resolutions urging that federal immigration laws be upheld, that voters be required to have a photo ID and that local spending be limited unless there's voter approval.







Copied from the Dallas morning news.

O God, please let Obama win the party nomination. It would make me feel swell. Please, God.

But perhaps this prayer will go the way many others have gone in the face of reality; nowhere. Sighs.

@Kuwena
I read your post on religion and all I could come up with first was:
what a confused mind.

I do not know where to begin to put you clearly 'cause there were lots of issues with your line of thought.
First, I want you to get the idea that 'religion' is different from 'one's personal relationship with God'
Most people might claim to be Christian, Great One, etc but may have a very poor personal relationship with God.
Even some of the occultists in our society are either in Ogboni, Lodge, Ekpe etc and yet are leaders in their respective churches.
Some of the very rich people in Nigeria play double standards, hence are hypocrites to the core.
Then there are those who tell you outrightly, that they do not believe in God; atheists. Most whites do not have any shame professing this openly.
Our black people are usually few that does; the Soyinkas, et al. The rest play the 'double standard' game thinking God can be fooled.

Speaking of those who had a personal relationship with God, they were very rich:
Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Daniel, Solomon, David his father, etc were extremely rich and influential people in their time, to mention a few.
I do not believe that it is everyone's destiny to be rich (in material things), yet many of us desire to.
I do not also believe that the richer you are, the happier you get.
I do not know how many people in this world lived a more fulfilling and influential life than Mother Teresa of Calcutta, yet she never owned a car.
Her burial and influence after death would have taught you a thing or two about destiny, working with God and finding one's purpose in life.
Most christians go to church but how many have a true personal relationship with him??
That is a question for you to ponder.

I believe that Christ is a son of God and that he came to the world for a purpose.
When a man (even today) identifies his purpose, making money (if not part of it) becomes a distraction.
How can you say that a man who fed 5,000 peeps with only 5 loafs and 2 fishes is poor?
How can you say that the same man who fed 4,000 men (excluding women and children) with seven loaves and two fishes is poor?
A man who once paid his tax by instructing one of his apostle to draw a fish and pick a coin from its mouth?
Are you even thinking Kuwena or have you gone totally nuts??!
How can you say that such a man who did uncountable things is poor
A man who met his apostles fishing all night (professional fishermen all their lives!) and when they were tired out, simply asked them to cast their fishing net just once. The result you and I know was that they caught so much fish that they had to call for help from other neighbouring fishermen! Their nets were breaking of so much fish.
How can you utter that such a man was poor?
Don't you have any respect or regard in your life?
Or at least, don't you have any wisdom?

I am appalled.

Christ's choosing to come into this world and be born in a manger (instead of a hospital) and of a virgin, a carpenter's wife (instead of a rich man's wife) was simply a mark of humility from God _{which baffles the human mind}
He was interested in saving people's souls for a better Kingdom (heaven) through repentance and holiness _{and not to enrich them on earth.}
That doesn't mean that he encouraged poverty. He dined with both rich and poor but had more compassion on the poor, neglected, sick and most importantly the 'lost souls' in the world.
His calling and coming did not include making people to afford Hummer Jeeps.
Does it now make him and his preaching less attractive to you and your type? Sorry. I am really sorry.

Those that sell their souls to the devil (through Occultism, atheism or whatever means) do not believe that another life exists after this world.
So they would readily do the needful to make it here by all means.
I want to be rich. I want to be wealthy. I want to support lives in a global way but I am not ready to give up what is most precious to me; my soul.
Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Moses, David, Daniel etc were equally very rich and wealthy but still made it to heaven.
But despite my desire, if I find out that it is not my calling? Why? I drop the idea and follow my calling like a lamb.
Everything here is temporal and if you don't understand it, too bad!

Finally, I would like to take you up on your last statement below:

_{But you know the catch? Though I have no religion, that does not mean I have no God. I do not say there is God; but mark this clearly: I do not say that there is no God. I am neutral of the subject.}

Nothing you've ever said is as contradictory as that above.
You can fool some people some time but you cannot fool all the people all the time
In my little understanding of the spiritual realm (which rules and affects our physical world), there is no room for void or neutrality.
Tell that to men of low understanding; don't tell me that.
There are two kingdoms and two masters; it's either you are for God or you are for satan (formerly Lucifer).
There is no third, neutral or middle position; you can use that to confuse 'children' who do not know better.
Even the Bible made it clear in Revelation chapter 3 vs 15 & 16
I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot

So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold or hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

By implications, those Americans, Nigerians and others who are either atheists or dedicated occultists are even better in the eyes of God than your proclaimed and deceptive neutrality.

Further verses 17 & 18 answers your quest to be rich at all cost.
You can complete verses 19 to 22, if it will make sense to you.

Good luck!

@alphaprime & aniffy, I will answer your questions soon, when and if I get time.
Now I've to run.

@others
Somebody should please tell this guy (Kuwena) some home truths
instead of looking like a Lucozade

Maybe, you have an opportunity to save a soul.

Kudos to the gunners, though am not an arsenal fan but u guys really, really deserved the victory and in Cesc Fabregas, you got a true world class champion.

Despite AC Milan's legendary cummulative team age, they fell to inexperience - Pato's and Kalac's. Wonder why Ancellotti pulled of Inzaghi instead of an out-of-sorts Pato.
Pirlo was uncharacteristically miserable yesternight, made me wonder whether dem give the guy akamu drink before the game. He made a hash of most of his possesion and passes.

Anyway it was and ominous end to a dreadful season for milan. Oh how AC missed Seedorf especially in the first half.
Well this might just mark the end of 3 different eras -

one, Kaka might just have lost his chance to retain the WFY crown he won last year (wonder who's next?)

two, definitely the end of the Ancellotti era (step in Jose Mourinho or maybe Lippi)

and finally, no more 'grandpa' soccer. When you are marking someone less than half your age (Maldini -> Wallcot),then
there is a problem, infact the sage was a full 21 years older than 'child abuse'.

Anyway my reccomendation for milan, do away with the old hags and recruit fresh and 'young' bloods like danny shittu,
obinna nwaneri, etuhu, eroimogbe, Utaka, Apam and Olofinjana. With such you can never go wrong.

My advice for the gunners, concentrate very well on the champion's league cos no show for EPL.

PAK
i dont get d jokes about 9ja players in Milan
And also I guess u support ManU

Opoks,Ken
Tanx,i was so glad.Make una continue una Bilbe battles if e worse wella i go add fire

As per d grammar,I am feelin it watching from outside,cos i cant string good english this way,If na pidgin now,ehen i go yan.

@aniffy4eva
I'll get to answer your questions by tomorrow, sorry I can't take it up now. The subject of a precise and accurate definition of wealth is really a most interesting one. This is hoping the entire forum will do justice to it.

@Opoks
U've really shown from Ur posts to Kuwena on religion, that U're truly not after making much money just for the heck of it. but as an instrument for service. Highly commendable. Don't b too hard on Kuwena, however. He's writing based on his personal experience in life, and also his worldview, Most of his posts on this issue seem to be more like questions from a mind that is seeking justification for continued belief in God, for which there are plenty.

@Kuwena
I understand. Opoks raised a lot of issues in his post that U would do well to consider. God has been good to you. He's still the creator of even the whiteman, anyway. And speaking of the whiteman, like Opoks said, they're fully humans like us. I once asked my uncle who is a University prof in New York whether his students have ever cheated in class exams. hear him: "O, cheating is a universal phenomenon. Sure, I've caught some cheating, " One of my classmates came to the point where he believed that he would amount to a failure except he left Nigeria for good. Those of us who didn't think that way with him, are not failures today. Again, in a high tech software training class that I was once privileged to attend, one of my coursemates complained to our expartriate Indian instructor that there were no jobs in Nigeria. Hear the Indian's reply: "Then what am I doing here in Nigeria, if there are no jobs?"

See what I mean? Success is what U decide to make of your life!

kenosky:

[size=13pt]opoks, skeelo no sabi yarn plenty plenty grammar and analysis like u, alfaprime and kuwena so i guess im just dey siddon look. Meanwhile, i sure say im go post 2day as Arsenal don do wetin no English club don fit do (them hammer Manchester United 3-0 last year if u remember)- beat Milan at San siro, kai!

@brainstorming, i'm glad this thread has been infused with the vigour it once had- i'm saddened though that we can't read from adrianic because he brought an incisive pattern of analysis to the thread but i guess we'll just have to make do with opoks, kuwena, alfa prime and all of them good natured peeps wey dey contribute.

@pak, u self don do like runs away?

@tommyex, pop champagne because u v won your double birthday present. I sabi person wey win over £50 yesterday on Arsenal (lost £20 at the Emirates). No b small thing![/size]

@ everone
i neva comot for this tren, i just den relax dey watch things
@ kenosky
person wey no well no we

opokonwa:

@Kuwena
I read your post on religion and all I could come up with first was:
what a confused mind.

I do not know where to begin to put you clearly 'cause there were lots of issues with your line of thought.
First, I want you to get the idea that 'religion' is different from 'one's personal relationship with God'
Most people might claim to be Christian, Great One, etc but may have a very poor personal relationship with God.
Even some of the occultists in our society are either in Ogboni, Lodge, Ekpe etc and yet are leaders in their respective churches.
Some of the very rich people in Nigeria play double standards, hence are hypocrites to the core.
Then there are those who tell you outrightly, that they do not believe in God; atheists. Most whites do not have any shame professing this openly.
Our black people are usually few that does; the Soyinkas, et al. The rest play the 'double standard' game thinking God can be fooled.

Speaking of those who had a personal relationship with God, they were very rich:
Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Daniel, Solomon, David his father, etc were extremely rich and influential people in their time, to mention a few.
I do not believe that it is everyone's destiny to be rich (in material things), yet many of us desire to.
I do not also believe that the richer you are, the happier you get.
I do not know how many people in this world lived a more fulfilling and influential life than Mother Teresa of Calcutta, yet she never owned a car.
Her burial and influence after death would have taught you a thing or two about destiny, working with God and finding one's purpose in life.
Most christians go to church but how many have a true personal relationship with him??
That is a question for you to ponder.

I believe that Christ is a son of God and that he came to the world for a purpose.
When a man (even today) identifies his purpose, making money (if not part of it) becomes a distraction.
How can you say that a man who fed 5,000 peeps with only 5 loafs and 2 fishes is poor?
How can you say that the same man who fed 4,000 men (excluding women and children) with seven loaves and two fishes is poor?
A man who once paid his tax by instructing one of his apostle to draw a fish and pick a coin from its mouth?
Are you even thinking Kuwena or have you gone totally nuts??!
How can you say that such a man who did uncountable things is poor
A man who met his apostles fishing all night (professional fishermen all their lives!) and when they were tired out, simply asked them to cast their fishing net just once. The result you and I know was that they caught so much fish that they had to call for help from other neighbouring fishermen! Their nets were breaking of so much fish.
How can you utter that such a man was poor?
Don't you have any respect or regard in your life?
Or at least, don't you have any wisdom?

I am appalled.

Christ's choosing to come into this world and be born in a manger (instead of a hospital) and of a virgin, a carpenter's wife (instead of a rich man's wife) was simply a mark of humility from God _{which baffles the human mind}
He was interested in saving people's souls for a better Kingdom (heaven) through repentance and holiness _{and not to enrich them on earth.}
That doesn't mean that he encouraged poverty. He dined with both rich and poor but had more compassion on the poor, neglected, sick and most importantly the 'lost souls' in the world.
His calling and coming did not include making people to afford Hummer Jeeps.
Does it now make him and his preaching less attractive to you and your type? Sorry. I am really sorry.

Those that sell their souls to the devil (through Occultism, atheism or whatever means) do not believe that another life exists after this world.
So they would readily do the needful to make it here by all means.
I want to be rich. I want to be wealthy. I want to support lives in a global way but I am not ready to give up what is most precious to me; my soul.
Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Moses, David, Daniel etc were equally very rich and wealthy but still made it to heaven.
But despite my desire, if I find out that it is not my calling? Why? I drop the idea and follow my calling like a lamb.
Everything here is temporal and if you don't understand it, too bad!

Finally, I would like to take you up on your last statement below:

_{But you know the catch? Though I have no religion, that does not mean I have no God. I do not say there is God; but mark this clearly: I do not say that there is no God. I am neutral of the subject.}

Nothing you've ever said is as contradictory as that above.
You can fool some people some time but you cannot fool all the people all the time
In my little understanding of the spiritual realm (which rules and affects our physical world), there is no room for void or neutrality.
Tell that to men of low understanding; don't tell me that.
There are two kingdoms and two masters; it's either you are for God or you are for satan (formerly Lucifer).
There is no third, neutral or middle position; you can use that to confuse 'children' who do not know better.
Even the Bible made it clear in Revelation chapter 3 vs 15 & 16
I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot

So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold or hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

By implications, those Americans, Nigerians and others who are either atheists or dedicated occultists are even better in the eyes of God than your proclaimed and deceptive neutrality.

Further verses 17 & 18 answers your quest to be rich at all cost.
You can complete verses 19 to 22, if it will make sense to you.

Good luck!

@ kwena & opoks
una grammar hard , anyway thanks 4 keepin the trend alive. alfa prime, kip the trend going wt ur intellectual words

pak:

Kudos to the gunners, though am not an arsenal fan but u guys really, really deserved the victory and in Cesc Fabregas, you got a true world class champion.

Despite AC Milan's legendary cummulative team age, they fell to inexperience - Pato's and Kalac's. Wonder why Ancellotti pulled of Inzaghi instead of an out-of-sorts Pato.
Pirlo was uncharacteristically miserable yesternight, made me wonder whether them give the guy akamu drink before the game. He made a hash of most of his possesion and passes.

Anyway it was and ominous end to a dreadful season for milan. Oh how AC missed Seedorf especially in the first half.
Well this might just mark the end of 3 different eras -

one, Kaka might just have lost his chance to retain the WFY crown he won last year (wonder who's next?)

two, definitely the end of the Ancellotti era (step in Jose Mourinho or maybe Lippi)

and finally, no more 'grandpa' soccer. When you are marking someone less than half your age (Maldini -> Wallcot),then
there is a problem, infact the sage was a full 21 years older than 'child abuse'.

Anyway my reccomendation for milan, do away with the old hags and recruit fresh and 'young' bloods like danny shittu,
obinna nwaneri, etuhu, eroimogbe, Utaka, Apam and Olofinjana. With such you can never go wrong.

My advice for the gunners, concentrate very well on the champion's league because no show for EPL.

@ pak, una see as Arsenal wipe AC MULION, Abi AC Milan, we dey on top and in form.
make no body try us

opokonwa:

@Kuwena
I read your post on religion and all I could come up with first was:
what a confused mind.

I do not know where to begin to put you clearly 'cause there were lots of issues with your line of thought.
First, I want you to get the idea that 'religion' is different from 'one's personal relationship with God'
Most people might claim to be Christian, Great One, etc but may have a very poor personal relationship with God.
Even some of the occultists in our society are either in Ogboni, Lodge, Ekpe etc and yet are leaders in their respective churches.
Some of the very rich people in Nigeria play double standards, hence are hypocrites to the core.
Then there are those who tell you outrightly, that they do not believe in God; atheists. Most whites do not have any shame professing this openly.
Our black people are usually few that does; the Soyinkas, et al. The rest play the 'double standard' game thinking God can be fooled.

Speaking of those who had a personal relationship with God, they were very rich:
Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Daniel, Solomon, David his father, etc were extremely rich and influential people in their time, to mention a few.
I do not believe that it is everyone's destiny to be rich (in material things), yet many of us desire to.
I do not also believe that the richer you are, the happier you get.
I do not know how many people in this world lived a more fulfilling and influential life than Mother Teresa of Calcutta, yet she never owned a car.
Her burial and influence after death would have taught you a thing or two about destiny, working with God and finding one's purpose in life.
Most christians go to church but how many have a true personal relationship with him??
That is a question for you to ponder.

I believe that Christ is a son of God and that he came to the world for a purpose.
When a man (even today) identifies his purpose, making money (if not part of it) becomes a distraction.
How can you say that a man who fed 5,000 peeps with only 5 loafs and 2 fishes is poor?
How can you say that the same man who fed 4,000 men (excluding women and children) with seven loaves and two fishes is poor?
A man who once paid his tax by instructing one of his apostle to draw a fish and pick a coin from its mouth?
Are you even thinking Kuwena or have you gone totally nuts??!
How can you say that such a man who did uncountable things is poor
A man who met his apostles fishing all night (professional fishermen all their lives!) and when they were tired out, simply asked them to cast their fishing net just once. The result you and I know was that they caught so much fish that they had to call for help from other neighbouring fishermen! Their nets were breaking of so much fish.
How can you utter that such a man was poor?
Don't you have any respect or regard in your life?
Or at least, don't you have any wisdom?

I am appalled.

Christ's choosing to come into this world and be born in a manger (instead of a hospital) and of a virgin, a carpenter's wife (instead of a rich man's wife) was simply a mark of humility from God _{which baffles the human mind}
He was interested in saving people's souls for a better Kingdom (heaven) through repentance and holiness _{and not to enrich them on earth.}
That doesn't mean that he encouraged poverty. He dined with both rich and poor but had more compassion on the poor, neglected, sick and most importantly the 'lost souls' in the world.
His calling and coming did not include making people to afford Hummer Jeeps.
Does it now make him and his preaching less attractive to you and your type? Sorry. I am really sorry.

Those that sell their souls to the devil (through Occultism, atheism or whatever means) do not believe that another life exists after this world.
So they would readily do the needful to make it here by all means.
I want to be rich. I want to be wealthy. I want to support lives in a global way but I am not ready to give up what is most precious to me; my soul.
Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Moses, David, Daniel etc were equally very rich and wealthy but still made it to heaven.
But despite my desire, if I find out that it is not my calling? Why? I drop the idea and follow my calling like a lamb.
Everything here is temporal and if you don't understand it, too bad!

Finally, I would like to take you up on your last statement below:

_{But you know the catch? Though I have no religion, that does not mean I have no God. I do not say there is God; but mark this clearly: I do not say that there is no God. I am neutral of the subject.}

Nothing you've ever said is as contradictory as that above.
You can fool some people some time but you cannot fool all the people all the time
In my little understanding of the spiritual realm (which rules and affects our physical world), there is no room for void or neutrality.
Tell that to men of low understanding; don't tell me that.
There are two kingdoms and two masters; it's either you are for God or you are for satan (formerly Lucifer).
There is no third, neutral or middle position; you can use that to confuse 'children' who do not know better.
Even the Bible made it clear in Revelation chapter 3 vs 15 & 16
I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot

So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold or hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

By implications, those Americans, Nigerians and others who are either atheists or dedicated occultists are even better in the eyes of God than your proclaimed and deceptive neutrality.

Further verses 17 & 18 answers your quest to be rich at all cost.
You can complete verses 19 to 22, if it will make sense to you.

Good luck!

@ opoks
u and kwena, una grammar go soon cause crisis
as for me , make Madam USA win the vote make we see wetin go happen,
good nyt

tommyex:

PAK
i don't get d jokes about Nigeria players in Milan
And also I guess u support ManU

Opoks,Ken
Tanx,i was so glad.Make una continue una Bilbe battles if e worse wella i go add fire

As per d grammar,I am feelin it watching from outside,because i can't string good english this way,If na pidgin now,ehen i go yan.

@ tommyex,
i celebrate with u on the slaughterin and conquering of the old men in AC MILAN
We suppose celebrate am
[size=48pt]ONE LUV, ARSENAL FANS[/size]

[size=13pt]aniffy, ur question 'what is my definition of wealth?' is one dat must be answered no matter how much we try to run away from it. I however get some assignments to do and surely i believe that i'ld give u an answer 2mrw. Peace of mind though combined with the ability to get what u want when u want it would qualify to some extent as wealthy for mii! [/size]

kenosky:

[size=13pt]tommyex, u got your birthday gift- so just take it and relax

pak, u well so? utaka, aiyegbeni, obafemi, etuhu, eromoigbe- na sunshine stars team u dey recommend players for?

opoks, inside mi and u, who get 'wicked' sense of humor pass? I b good boi o, u don jam skeelo? kai, d guy get 'bad mouth' not b small, and i know u'll give anything to get that American hug from those American busts wey kuwena enjoi from Sade- pally, go find your American to give u your own hug! [/size]

@ kenosky,where u been run go before, na wao. na ur mouth b bad mouth, no b ur fault, e be like say na reduction in spongy level dey worry u
u no well at all

[size=48pt]GOOD MORNING ALL[/size]

skeelo:

@ kenosky,where u been run go before, na wao. na your mouth b bad mouth, no b your fault, e be like say na reduction in spongy level dey worry u
u no well at all

@kenosky
[size=18pt]_{the gentility of a lion does not mean that its teeth cannot bite again, it is only lookin for a better meal,} [/size]

all
[size=18pt]Na go i dey so[/size]

@kenosky
[size=18pt]_{the gentility of a lion does not mean that its teeth cannot bite again, it is only lookin for a better meal,} [/size]

[quote][/quote]


@skeelo, do i smell fear? Meanwhile opoks would tell u dat u r not a Super Lion so dont go brandishing dat term up and down like u know wat it takes to b one. see ur big mouth!