tintingz:
So what's the truth?


Really, why then those he wants people to believe in him(with threats) if he doesn't need any of us?

Are you not contradicting yourself?

Why does Allah wants people in hell if he's all merciful and good, how come he made sins and evil prevail when he hate it and can stop it from onset?

Your God has already chosen people he will favor, he knows everything and wants people to follow his rules with threats and you said he want nothing from us? Did you read what you posted? If you can't see the illogical and unreasonable thing in your beliefs sorry I can't help.

If there's actually a good loving perfect God existing that is ominipotent and knows everything, there shouldn't be hell or sins or evil because he's perfect!

The truth is that there's no god except Allah and Muhammad is his servant and messenger.

Allah wants people to believe in him so that they'll have hope to do good deeds and be afraid of spreading corruption on his earth. That's why the devil has been a promoter of atheism and the belief that anyone can should do whatever they desire, because through this system of belief he can cause all what you see that's happening that's making good people like you blame your Creator, he developed distractions to make the people not have time to seek knowledge and have a sound mind, this distractions has caused many human beings to forget their purpose of creation that's to worship Him alone without ascribing partners to Him in worship. This life is an exam which he has set to test us since the devil has taken an oath that he will misguide us, but Allah said he cannot misguide those who truly believe in Him that he should go and do whatever he can, instead of the devil to apologise and seek for forgiveness he instead became angry and more jealous. Now his major aim is to see me, you and every other human become relaxed, disbelieve in Allah or even become rebellious to Allah so that we'll become damned like him. He doesn't need any of us because if he wanted he could wipe out the human race and bring about a new creation and that's easy for him. But because of the love he has for us and due to the extreme tests we will face he has given us guidance through his messengers, prophets and holy books. Still many humans disbelieve but he lets us drink his water breath his air and gave us a brain to think and many more mercies. He just wants you and I to prove to the devil that we truly love and believe in Him and He will give us the greatest reward.

Allah created all this sins and evil deeds and allowed it in order to test us and as evidence to punish souls who partook in this because he had already told us that's what the devil will use against us. Now let's say you're my teacher and you know your students capability, will it be fair to just award us grades without us actually taking an exam? Won't it be better if we know that we failed or passed due to our efforts? Allah is the Just and he will never be unjust to anyone, nor will He let or tolerate a human telling him that "o Allah you put me in hell without knowing what I did"

I hope I don't sound contradicting though?

najib632:
The truth is that there's no god except Allah and Muhammad is his servant and messenger.

How did you know this is the truth?

Allah wants people to believe in him so that they'll have hope to do good deeds and be afraid of spreading corruption on his earth.

Humans can determine what's good and bad by themselves.

Are you good because of fear of Allah or because you're human?

That's why the devil has been a promoter of atheism and the belief that anyone can should do whatever they desire,

How is the devil promoting atheism when they don't believe in this fairy entity?

And what's wrong for people to do what they desire as long as it doesn't hurt the next person?

because through this system of belief he can cause all what you see that's happening that's making good people like you blame your Creator, he developed distractions to make the people not have time to seek knowledge and have a sound mind, this distractions has caused many human beings to forget their purpose of creation that's to worship Him alone without ascribing partners to Him in worship.

God is responsible for all that's happening because he's the creator of all including the devil, he even knows the future and has written it down.

Why not tell me why God created this distraction when he knows the end of it?

If God doesn't need anything from us, he's self-sufficient, why does he want us to worship him with threats, what does he gain from it?

This life is an exam which he has set to test us since the devil has taken an oath that he will misguide us, but Allah said he cannot misguide those who truly believe in Him that he should go and do whatever he can, instead of the devil to apologise and seek for forgiveness he instead became angry and more jealous. Now his major aim is to see me, you and every other human become relaxed, disbelieve in Allah or even become rebellious to Allah so that we'll become damned like him.

This is weak.

Like I said above, God created everything including the devil, the question is why did he create the devil when he's all good and knows the future?

He doesn't need any of us because if he wanted he could wipe out the human race and bring about a new creation and that's easy for him. But because of the love he has for us and due to the extreme tests we will face he has given us guidance through his messengers, prophets and holy books. Still many humans disbelieve but he lets us drink his water breath his air and gave us a brain to think and many more mercies. He just wants you and I to prove to the devil that we truly love and believe in Him and He will give us the greatest reward.

If he doesn't want anything from us, why is he angry for not worshiping him?

Allah created all this sins and evil deeds and allowed it in order to test us and as evidence to punish souls who partook in this because he had already told us that's what the devil will use against us. Now let's say you're my teacher and you know your students capability, will it be fair to just award us grades without us actually taking an exam? Won't it be better if we know that we failed or passed due to our efforts? Allah is the Just and he will never be unjust to anyone, nor will He let or tolerate a human telling him that "o Allah you put me in hell without knowing what I did"

I hope I don't sound contradicting though?

Still weak analogy.

So Allah created sins, evil to test imperfect humans, he knows the end of it yet he's merciful and all good and blame humans for their actions when he has destined it? Can't you see how illogical it sound?

God know evil is bad, hell is cruel, humans are imperfect, knows the future but created the devil for whatever meaningless reasons to gain what exactly?

If I'm a teacher and knows the future of my students if they fail, which will be very cruel, I won't even create any silly test or better still create any school. That's reasonable and moral.

tintingz:
How did you know this is the truth?

Because I have tasted the sweetness of faith, and Islam is the only thing has provided the most logical answers to me.

tintingz:
Humans can determine what's good and bad by themselves.

Yes if most of them were not influenced by the devil. But you will agree with me that majority of people are not good. Plus the most civilised country and the world power(USA) is logically supposed to be helping make the world a better place but they have a hand in all the problems around the world, plus they are the major supporters of atheism.

tintingz:
Are you good because of fear of Allah or because you're human?

Naturally a human is good, but he gets contaminated as he gets older and only the fear of Allah is able to keep him in the best state.

tintingz:
How is the devil promoting atheism when they don't believe in this fairy entity?

That's actually the best strategy he has ever laid out. Because you will always be relaxed and not care about the evil whispering you hear from within you, you think it's your own thoughts but it's not, you could prepare to fight an enemy you don't, but what will you do if don't believe the enemy exists? Nothing!

tintingz:
And what's wrong for people to do what they desire as long as it doesn't hurt the next person?

They hurt them selves and the society because Allah warns us that if we see people doing wrong and we don't tell them to correct them selves when then consequences come up it will consume us all, this is to force us to always remind each other to do good.

tintingz:
God is responsible for all that's happening because he's the creator of all including the devil, he even knows the future and has written it down.

That's not fair if you blame God after he sent you prophets and messengers and holy books telling you the right things to do. These are the last days before the end of the world we are really going to see many evil things.

tintingz:
Why not tell me why God created this distraction when he knows the end of it?

Let me tell you something about Allah and his creations, Allah is the only one that has a will and we choice, so he sets out a complex algorithm called destiny that's what we're going to choose to do what we're doing. You destiny might have an easier way to hell but you choosing that one hard option of asking Allah to have mercy on you and show you the right path could be your ultimate test. Just an example.

tintingz:
If God doesn't need anything from us, he's self-sufficient, why does he want us to worship him with threats, what does he gain from it?

The threats are out of love if those are indulged in sin and those who have faith become afraid of his threat and repent, and ask for his forgiveness he will forgive them, increase them in faith and through his mercy admits them into gardens that rivers flow beneath. But they're out of hatred if the people mock the verses,signs, prophets, messengers and callers to Allah and come up with arguments about Allah, killing people without regard, spreading corruption on the earth, becoming arrogant to the extent of forgetting that Allah made them from a drop of sperm, and certainly the threats are justified and Allah will admit them into a blazing fire whose fuel is Men and stones.

tintingz:
This is weak.

Submit to the truth!

tintingz:
Like I said above, God created everything including the devil, the question is why did he create the devil when he's all good and knows the future?

The devil also has a back story before he went rogue. He was actually very pious to the extent that Allah allowed him to live in the heavens after his kind sinned to extent that Allah banished them into the sea. But devil was not worshipping Allah for pleasing Allah but for power. So Allah loves his creations so much that gif there's something bad hidden in depths of their hearts he makes it apparent to them. So Allah said he was going to appoint a vicegerent on the earth the devil was happy when he heard this news but the Allah said he's going to make a new creation that will take up the position, the angels argued with Allah, that why is He going to create a new creation that will spill blood and spread corruption on the earth after they glorify Him. Allah told them "I know what you know not" then Allah created Adam from different earths (sand, or clay) when Allah created Adam the devil witnessed the creation of Adam and he wasn't impressed, then his jealousy became pride, finally when Allah breathed into Adam He ordered the angels to prostrate to Adam, everybody did except for Iblis (Lucifer) he was of the jinn, he has freedom of choice, he chose to be arrogant. When Allah asked him why he didn't bow down Iblis said I am better than him because you made me from fire and him from clay. Then Allah said be gone you are cursed instead of seeking forgiveness of Allah the devil became angry that Allah humiliated because of Adam then he said to Allah to spare him from death until the day of judgement and he also said:

لَعَنَهُ اللَّهُ ۘ وَقَالَ لَأَتَّخِذَنَّ مِنْ عِبَادِكَ نَصِيبًا مَفْرُوضًا

(Mufti Taqi Usmani)
whom Allah has cursed. He (the Satan) said, “Surely I will take an appointed share from Your slaves,

-Sura An-Nisa', Ayah 118

وَلَأُضِلَّنَّهُمْ وَلَأُمَنِّيَنَّهُمْ وَلَآمُرَنَّهُمْ فَلَيُبَتِّكُنَّ آذَانَ الْأَنْعَامِ وَلَآمُرَنَّهُمْ فَلَيُغَيِّرُنَّ خَلْقَ اللَّهِ ۚ وَمَنْ يَتَّخِذِ الشَّيْطَانَ وَلِيًّا مِنْ دُونِ اللَّهِ فَقَدْ خَسِرَ خُسْرَانًا مُبِينًا

(Mufti Taqi Usmani)
and I will lead them astray, and I will tempt them with false hopes, and I will command them, whereby they shall slit the ears of cattle, and I will command them, whereby they shall alter the creation of Allah.” Whoever takes the Satan for friend, instead of Allah, incurs an obvious loss.

-Sura An-Nisa', Ayah 119

So you see that's a really determined enemy, someone who has accepted damnation just to see you fall.

If he doesn't want anything from us, why is he angry for not worshiping him? [/quote]Because a lot of us have become misguided instead of following the path of Allah we are following shaytan(devil)

tintingz:
Still weak analogy.

Submit! Submit to the truth!

tintingz:
So Allah created sins, evil to test imperfect humans, he knows the end of it yet he's merciful and all good and blame humans for their actions when he has destined it? Can't you see how illogical it sound?

How's it illogical when he has told us our destiny and about our arch enemy? Sent us prophets and messenger and holy books and wisdom? How's that unfair?

tintingz:
God know evil is bad, hell is cruel, humans are imperfect, knows the future but created the devil for whatever meaningless reasons to gain what exactly?

To punish the fools and evil wicked people that proudly followed and supported the devil. And don't forget Allah also made good and he said he will reward the doers of, Allah also said no matter the amount of sin the son of Adam accumulates investors he sincerely repent he will forgive him and if does good he will change his sins into good deeds, Allah is balanced woe onto those that love evil may Allah destroy them.

tintingz:
If I'm a teacher and knows the future of my students if they fail, which will be very cruel, I won't even create any silly test or better still create any school. That's reasonable and moral.

nope then you're not a teacher. Mr. Logical I swear by Allah if this doesn't make sense to you then I live you in the hands of the our creator, he guide whom he wills. May Allah open your eyes, I know a few scientific facts that prove the existence of Allah that the atheist are hiding may Allah expose them. They spend billions of dollars sponsoring wars and exploring space when they haven't even finished exploring the earth if they're good then let them use the money to feed the poor and help the needy. But no they are the supporter of capitalism, we will all get what we have earned. We are all going to die wether we like it or not.

najib632:
Because I have tasted the sweetness of faith, and Islam is the only thing has provided the most logical answers to me.

I don't seem to understand this part, have you tested all faith or just Islam?

We have over thousands of faiths in the world, what makes you think Islam provides the most logical answers? I'm interested in knowing this logical answers.

Yes if most of them were not influenced by the devil. But you will agree with me that majority of people are not good.

People are good and people are bad, a socio-construct that's developed by the people.

But then I can practically tell you why your actions are good or bad e.g A muslim killing apostates or homosexuals is murder and immoral.

Plus the most civilised country and the world power(USA) is logically supposed to be helping make the world a better place but they have a hand in all the problems around the world, plus they are the major supporters of atheism.

Lol, why USA? Dont blame them, there are muslim countries that are not making the world a better place.

And US are not the major supporters of atheism, the president of US is not an athiest hope you know that?

Naturally a human is good, but he gets contaminated as he gets older and only the fear of Allah is able to keep him in the best state.

False, there are many factors that can make someone keep him or her in the best state.

Fear of Allah is not necessary to make someone good, infact I don't see such person as genuinely good reason because he's only good out of fear.

And hope you know fear of Allah can also make someone bad, like killing apostates and homosexuals I mentioned above.

That's actually the best strategy he has ever laid out. Because you will always be relaxed and not care about the evil whispering you hear from within you, you think it's your own thoughts but it's not, you could prepare to fight an enemy you don't, but what will you do if don't believe the enemy exists? Nothing!

No, false.

We athiests don't hear any imaginary whispering, anyone who hears that is suffering from schizophrenia. Athiests don't believe in imaginary fairy beings, we are more concerned about what is realistic than some mumbo jumbo.

They hurt them selves and the society because Allah warns us that if we see people doing wrong and we don't tell them to correct them selves when then consequences come up it will consume us all, this is to force us to always remind each other to do good.

And you think Islam provide all the morality we need?

No, it doesn't, every society has it own morality.

That's not fair if you blame God after he sent you prophets and messengers and holy books telling you the right things to do. These are the last days before the end of the world we are really going to see many evil things.

It still point back to Allah, he's the creator of evil, if Allah can't stop evil from onset but sent some prophets and messengers for what he is responsible of, I don't think that God is potent or knows what he's doing or even exist.

Let me tell you something about Allah and his creations, Allah is the only one that has a will and we choice, so he sets out a complex algorithm called destiny that's what we're going to choose to do what we're doing. You destiny might have an easier way to hell but you choosing that one hard option of asking Allah to have mercy on you and show you the right path could be your ultimate test. Just an example.

The Qur'an said human destiny is already known by Allah and it's already written down before existence. There's no choice here.

The threats are out of love if those are indulged in sin and those who have faith become afraid of his threat and repent, and ask for his forgiveness he will forgive them, increase them in faith and through his mercy admits them into gardens that rivers flow beneath. But they're out of hatred if the people mock the verses,signs, prophets, messengers and callers to Allah and come up with arguments about Allah, killing people without regard, spreading corruption on the earth, becoming arrogant to the extent of forgetting that Allah made them from a drop of sperm, and certainly the threats are justified and Allah will admit them into a blazing fire whose fuel is Men and stones.

The threats is not out of love but out of incapability or malevolent.

If God actually knows what he's doing and he's all good and merciful, such thing as evil he hated should not exist in the first place!

Submit to the truth!

What truth?!

The devil also has a back story before he went rogue. He was actually very pious to the extent that Allah allowed him to live in the heavens after his kind sinned to extent that Allah banished them into the sea. But devil was not worshipping Allah for pleasing Allah but for power. So Allah loves his creations so much that gif there's something bad hidden in depths of their hearts he makes it apparent to them. So Allah said he was going to appoint a vicegerent on the earth the devil was happy when he heard this news but the Allah said he's going to make a new creation that will take up the position, the angels argued with Allah, that why is He going to create a new creation that will spill blood and spread corruption on the earth after they glorify Him. Allah told them "I know what you know not" then Allah created Adam from different earths (sand, or clay) when Allah created Adam the devil witnessed the creation of Adam and he wasn't impressed, then his jealousy became pride, finally when Allah breathed into Adam He ordered the angels to prostrate to Adam, everybody did except for Iblis (Lucifer) he was of the jinn, he has freedom of choice, he chose to be arrogant. When Allah asked him why he didn't bow down Iblis said I am better than him because you made me from fire and him from clay. Then Allah said be gone you are cursed instead of seeking forgiveness of Allah the devil became angry that Allah humiliated because of Adam then he said to Allah to spare him from death until the day of judgement and he also said:

لَعَنَهُ اللَّهُ ۘ وَقَالَ لَأَتَّخِذَنَّ مِنْ عِبَادِكَ نَصِيبًا مَفْرُوضًا

(Mufti Taqi Usmani)
whom Allah has cursed. He (the Satan) said, “Surely I will take an appointed share from Your slaves,

-Sura An-Nisa', Ayah 118

وَلَأُضِلَّنَّهُمْ وَلَأُمَنِّيَنَّهُمْ وَلَآمُرَنَّهُمْ فَلَيُبَتِّكُنَّ آذَانَ الْأَنْعَامِ وَلَآمُرَنَّهُمْ فَلَيُغَيِّرُنَّ خَلْقَ اللَّهِ ۚ وَمَنْ يَتَّخِذِ الشَّيْطَانَ وَلِيًّا مِنْ دُونِ اللَّهِ فَقَدْ خَسِرَ خُسْرَانًا مُبِينًا

(Mufti Taqi Usmani)
and I will lead them astray, and I will tempt them with false hopes, and I will command them, whereby they shall slit the ears of cattle, and I will command them, whereby they shall alter the creation of Allah.” Whoever takes the Satan for friend, instead of Allah, incurs an obvious loss.

-Sura An-Nisa', Ayah 119

So you see that's a really determined enemy, someone who has accepted damnation just to see you fall.

With this myth story you narrate here, you didn't see the flaws?

Allah missed many things, some of them is he never knew Satan will be the devil and cause evil or he knew but couldn't stop it or he's just malevolent.

If he doesn't want anything from us, why is he angry for not worshiping him? Because a lot of us have become misguided instead of following the path of Allah we are following shaytan(devil)

Then Allah wants something from us, he wants people to worship him so that he can appear relevant.

Still weak analogy. Submit! Submit to the truth!

Hope you know your truth sucks. No offense.

How's it illogical when he has told us our destiny and about our arch enemy? Sent us prophets and messenger and holy books and wisdom? How's that unfair?

You still don't see the flaws?

Kindly answer, why can't Allah stop Satan from onset or knew beforehand Satan will be the devil?

To punish the fools and evil wicked people that proudly followed and supported the devil. And don't forget Allah also made good and he said he will reward the doers of, Allah also said no matter the amount of sin the son of Adam accumulates investors he sincerely repent he will forgive him and if does good he will change his sins into good deeds, Allah is balanced woe onto those that love evil may Allah destroy them.

Who's the creator of evil/devil?

Mr. Logical I swear by Allah if this doesn't make sense to you then I live you in the hands of the our creator, he guide whom he wills. May Allah open your eyes,

Let me test your logic, if you are a president and you know beforehand about a terrorists and his attack, what will you do as a good powerful leader?

I know a few scientific facts that prove the existence of Allah that the atheist are hiding may Allah expose them.

Please mention them, I'm interested. Lol.

They spend billions of dollars sponsoring wars and exploring space when they haven't even finished exploring the earth if they're good then let them use the money to feed the poor and help the needy. But no they are the supporter of capitalism, we will all get what we have earned. We are all going to die wether we like it or not.

Wow, You actually know athiesm position, we sponsor wars. Lol.

Hope you know the poorest president in the world, hope you know he's an athiest?

You are right, I also think that dreams are just part of our imagination and should not really look for meaning in them very much or rely on them. However, I often read the meanings of sleep on the site https://islamdreaming.com/ just to understand it more or learn something new.