johnydon22:


So, imperfection Aka Mr inevitable evil(natural evil or man-made evil) is necessary then?

All I did was demonstrate the necessity of evil by showing a world without evil is purposely dead.

Thank you

I've been following this and do not think a perfect world is a dead world, though a desireless one might be devoid of living things. Just imagine a world where the desire to breath in oxygen disappears. If the need for oxygen still exists, I do think there'd be quite a lot of ex-living things, but the world itself would just go on without you all, it wouldn't die! But that's probably thinking of human being evil.

Then again, is it true that if we all stop being evil in the religious section on Nairaland, for instance, Nairaland would die? I don't think so! True, we wouldn't be stabbing each other in thread after thread, but who's to say something a lot better, like making the whole of Nairaland devoid of evil, would not take the place of our continous stabbing? Same with the world, at least as far as human evil is concerned. Can't say about lions eating wilderbeast, though, if that is evil that is, or earthquakes and tsunamis, which aren't exactly evil unless one wishes to consider there's a higher being inflicting them on poor helpless earth.

budaatum:

I've been following this and do not think a perfect world is a dead world, though a desireless one might be devoid of living things. Just imagine a world where the desire to breath in oxygen disappears. If the need for oxygen still exists, I do think there'd be quite a lot of ex-living things, but the world itself would just go on without you all, it wouldn't die! But that's probably thinking of human being evil.

All these are possible in the realm of imagination, and just about anything is achievable there.

Let's IMAGINE "the whole of Nairaland devoid of evil" as you say, what will be the characteristics of such a forum? Will Seun need to set any rules? If so, why are rules or laws necessary on a perfect forum?

budaatum:

Same with the world, at least as far as human evil is concerned. Can't say about lions eating wilderbeast, though, if that is evil that is, or earthquakes and tsunamis, which aren't exactly evil unless one wishes to consider there's a higher being inflicting them on poor helpless earth.

As regards your "lions eating wilderbeast" analogy, does the prey ever see the predator in good light? I'm sure if they did, they wouldn't run from them or try to defend themselves or their territory when attacked by belligerent foes. Can killing, in any form, be termed a "good" thing?

In your own opinion as an atheist, if natural disasters, such as earthquake, tsunamis, cyclone, etc. are not evil, then why are they called "natural disasters" by humans?

hahn:


Absence of evidence is absence of evidence

Lol. Don't mind him. By saying "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence," he is admitting that he has no logical or evidence-based basis to make his assertion. Why then does he believes what he believes in?

LordReed:


I am still not seeing what your objection is. Is it that we should not seek solution, can you answer that clearly?

The "solution" must be necessary and compatible with reality.

gensteejay:

All these are possible in the realm of imagination, and just about anything is achievable there.

Let's IMAGINE "the whole of Nairaland devoid of evil" as you say, what will be the characteristics of such a forum? Will Seun need to set any rules? If so, why are rules or laws necessary on a perfect forum?


As regards your "lions eating wilderbeast" analogy, does the prey ever see the predator in good light? I'm sure if they did, they wouldn't run from them or try to defend themselves or their territory when attacked by belligerent foes. Can killing, in any form, be termed a "good" thing?

In your own opinion as an atheist, if natural disasters, such as earthquake, tsunamis, cyclone, etc. are not evil, then why are they called "natural disasters" by humans?

He might term it "evil" or not but one thing is certain-that it is against the wellbeing of humans!!!!

gensteejay:
All these are possible in the realm of imagination, and just about anything is achievable there.

Let's IMAGINE "the whole of Nairaland devoid of evil" as you say, what will be the characteristics of such a forum? Will Seun need to set any rules? If so, why are rules or laws necessary on a perfect forum?

Characteristics? Imagine? Ok, let's imagine. We could be a forum for good, promoting something worthwhile like goodness, education, anything worthwhile, instead of continued arguments, for instance.

gensteejay:
As regards your "lions eating wilderbeast" analogy, does the prey ever see the predator in good light? I'm sure if they did, they wouldn't run from them or try to defend themselves or their territory when attacked by belligerent foes. Can killing, in any form, be termed a "good" thing?

Depends who's killing, I guess.

gensteejay:
In your own opinion as an atheist, if natural disasters, such as earthquake, tsunamis, cyclone, etc. are not evil, then why are they called "natural disasters" by humans?

A natural disaster is not 'evil'. You might as well say death is evil too, when in fact, it's just the way things are. I guess one can imagine controlling the effects of natural disasters, however. The imagination can be that powerful. Regardless, shouldn't humans focus on what they can change instead of bothering about what they can't.

HellVictorinho:


The "solution" must be necessary and compatible with reality.

And eliminating animal killing is not compatible with reality?

Ranchhoddas:
No I don't. But I have no reason to believe they are lying. And I am not gullible or anything.
Tell me, what would be their motive? The motives of not just one, two, or three people. Many people with different cases of healing.

People lie for various reasons, you might not know their motive doesn't stop them from telling lies. After all you clearly admit that you don't know them and you weren't there.

Oyakhilome's healing school has being going on for years. Do you really want to tell me that no single sick person has being healed for years and it still going on? No one?

Healed of what exactly? Why are clear cut miracles an immpossiblity? Have you ever sat down and asked your self why? Have you ever seen a burn victim healed and had his skin restored back to the way it was? What about an amputee? Have you ever seen the amputated limbs of any body being restored? Pastor Chrishealing school that has been exposed as a scam by many people? SirJohn a nairalander went there like 10 years ago and exposed all the tricks they use there. . .He went there twice and documented everything here, you can look up the name SirJohn and christ embassy healing school. The expose went viral and even the church had to respond. The healing school has since lost its vigor and is no longer what it used to be after the expose. . .

Of course they may be cases of fake miracles, what it means is that not everyone gets healed for some reason or the other. My argument is that some people get miracle cures from religious places. Clear cut medicine-defying miracles that will be visible to any honest and impartial observer.
I am not sure why they happen. But they happen.

To the unbeliever, no proof is enough

Again, why are clear cut miracle always never happening? Why aren't amputees having their amputated limbs restored? Why are burn victims never having their skins restored? Why are babies born with down syndrome never healed? Why are midgets never made tall ? Name one clear cut miracle healing that you have personally witnessed and not hear say. Name just one clear cut miracle healing. . .

dalaman:


People lie for various reasons, you might not know their motive doesn't stop them from telling lies. After all you clearly admit that you don't know them and you weren't there.



Healed of what exactly? Why are clear cut miracles an immpossiblity? Have you ever sat down and asked your self why? Have you ever seen a burn victim healed and had his skin restored back to the way it was? What about an amputee? Have you ever seen the amputated limbs of any body being restored? Pastor Chrishealing school that has been exposed as a scam by many people? SirJohn a nairalander went there like 10 years ago and exposed all the tricks they use there. . .He went there twice and documented everything here, you can look up the name SirJohn and christ embassy healing school. The expose went viral and even the church had to respond. The healing school has since lost its vigor and is no longer what it used to be after the expose. . .




Again, why are clear cut miracle always never happening? Why aren't amputees having their amputated limbs restored? Why are burn victims never having their skins restored? Why are babies born with down syndrome never healed? Why are midgets never made tall ? Name one clear cut miracle healing that you have personally witnessed and not hear say. Name just one clear cut miracle healing. . .

*coughs*

I have one clear cut miracle healing

*coughs*

Smart people immediately become stupid when they enter churches

That is a clear cut miracle

dalaman:


People lie for various reasons, you might not know their motive doesn't stop them from telling lies. After all you clearly admit that you don't know them and you weren't there.



Healed of what exactly? Why are clear cut miracles an immpossiblity? Have you ever sat down and asked your self why? Have you ever seen a burn victim healed and had his skin restored back to the way it was? What about an amputee? Have you ever seen the amputated limbs of any body being restored? Pastor Chrishealing school that has been exposed as a scam by many people? SirJohn a nairalander went there like 10 years ago and exposed all the tricks they use there. . .He went there twice and documented everything here, you can look up the name SirJohn and christ embassy healing school. The expose went viral and even the church had to respond. The healing school has since lost its vigor and is no longer what it used to be after the expose. . .




Again, why are clear cut miracle always never happening? Why aren't amputees having their amputated limbs restored? Why are burn victims never having their skins restored? Why are babies born with down syndrome never healed? Why are midgets never made tall ? Name one clear cut miracle healing that you have personally witnessed and not hear say. Name just one clear cut miracle healing. . .

That brings to mind one of Jesus' supposed miracles, making a leper whole. I have not heard of this miracle being reproduced by any of the big time pastors or even any one for that matter. Yet their book says greater things they shall do. Hmmmmmm.

LordReed:


And eliminating animal killing is not compatible with reality?

Is it feasible?And even if it is,would that satisfy/please most societies considering its implications

HellVictorinho:


Is it feasible?And even if it is,would that satisfy/please most societies considering its implications

Pardon me but let me ask you a question in response, is marijuana legalisation feasible? Will it satisfy/please most societies?

LordReed:


That brings to mind one of Jesus' supposed miracles, making a leper whole. I have not heard of this miracle being reproduced by any of the big time pastors or even any one for that matter. Yet their book says greater things they shall do. Hmmmmmm.

I tire oo.

LordReed:


Pardon me but let me ask you a question in response, is marijuana legalisation feasible? Will it satisfy/please most societies?

Marijuana possession is not legal in every country(fact).And it will never be-realistically.Besides,we are talking about making killing of animals illegal, ultimately. And that is just farfetched no matter the advancements we make in science. Global Feeding goes beyond "good" and "bad"/scientific movements. And what you are calling "evil" is actually an 'act of nature' in Biology.

budaatum:

Characteristics? Imagine? Ok, let's imagine. We could be a forum for good, promoting something worthwhile like goodness, education, anything worthwhile, instead of continued arguments, for instance.


Depends who's killing, I guess.


A natural disaster is not 'evil'. You might as well say death is evil too, when in fact, it's just the way things are. I guess one can imagine controlling the effects of natural disasters, however. The imagination can be that powerful. Regardless, shouldn't humans focus on what they can change instead of bothering about what they can't.

Since you're mainly interested in discussing unreal possibilities, which are only a product of imagination, I guess I would have to draw the curtain on this ratiocination.

I am primarily interested in discussing realistic concepts, not utopian ones.

budaatum:

We could be a forum for good, promoting something worthwhile like goodness, education, anything worthwhile, instead of continued arguments, for instance.

One can learn by engaging in arguments with people, once such people are learned, pragmatic, civil, and not dogmatic. Anything short of this could be a waste of time.

You stated you're a Jungian on a thread yesterday. By being a Jungian, does that mean you subscribe to Carl Jung's philosophy?

HellVictorinho:


Marijuana possession is not legal in every country(fact).And it will never be-realistically.Besides,we are talking about making killing of animals illegal, ultimately. And that is just farfetched no matter the advancements we make in science. Global Feeding goes beyond "good" and "bad"/scientific movements. And what you are calling "evil" is actually an 'act of nature' in Biology.

My bringing up marijuana had nothing to do with the banning of killing animals, I didn't even mention that at anytime.

Why I mentioned marijuana is because ideas gain a groundswell and begin to cascade change. It doesn't always require it to be immediately apparent to be beneficial to everyone, the change will come as more people are convinced it should.

Cultured meat may or may not require legislation to drive it but like most good modern ideas it will gain a groundswell that will direct change. It doesn't even matter if not everybody likes the meat, there are vegetarians who find kill animals reprehensible, it doesn't stop people from eating meat from killed animals. If vegetarianism was what gained groundswell then that would have stopped animal killing for meat but it didn't. This one may or it may not, the point being it is a solution grounded in reality.

gensteejay:


You stated you're a Jungian on a thread yesterday. By being a Jungian, does that mean you subscribe to Carl Jung's philosophy?

Did I? Know of, would be more accurate, and, influenced by, amongst many others, the Bible and Christianity included. I'm as Jungian as I am Christian, which I'm not, or at least I'm told I'm not being an atheist.

I'm live not by bread alone but by just about every book I've read.

gensteejay:

One can learn by engaging in arguments with people, once such people are learned, pragmatic, civil, and not dogmatic. Anything short of this could be a waste of time.

Oh, this I agree to. When buda wastes your time, please let me know and I'll gladly do the reigning in.

gensteejay:

Since you're mainly interested in discussing unreal possibilities, which are only a product of imagination, I guess I would have to draw the curtain on this ratiocination.

I am primarily interested in discussing realistic concepts, not utopian ones.

Hey, that's not fair! The thread itself was about imagining! How else could we have gotten to a world without evil, or it's corresponding, good, for that matter?!

I'm hurt!

hahn:
It is simple really

There is obviously no god because there is no evidence for it and if there is a god then it is a failure, judging by all the bad in the world, and it is not worthy of my attention or worship.

The position that there is no god is less stressful because if god, as depicted especially by Christianity and Islam, actually existed we'd be all doomed having a psychopath running loose who does not take responsibility for it's failure but is more concerned about burning people up and enjoying the smell of suya

Thank god there is no god

Hmmmm..pride goeth before a fall

budaatum:

Hey, that's not fair! The thread itself was about imagining! How else could we have gotten to a world without evil, or it's corresponding, good, for that matter?!

I'm hurt!

Lols. I didn't mean any insult. Sorry.

budaatum:

Oh, this I agree to. When buda wastes your time, please let me know and I'll gladly do the reigning in.

I see you read wide and are a knowledgeable person; that was why I made reference to your comment on being a Jungian.

budaatum:

Did I? Know of, would be more accurate, and, influenced by, amongst many others, the Bible and Christianity included. I'm as Jungian as I am Christian, which I'm not, or at least I'm told I'm not being an atheist.

I'm live not by bread alone but by just about every book I've read.

I am trying to reconcile the fact that you lean toward Jungian philosophy with your atheistic philosophy.

Carl Jung was a man, well versed in spirituality and philosophy, and did a number of studies that involved paranormal and occultic (not necessarily evil as ignorant religionists say) concepts.

His ideals seem contradictory to those of an atheist. How then do you regard some of his philosophical notions as veracious?

budaatum:
I don't particularly have a problem with my atheistic position. I don't after all assume that atheism has an answer to everything. I am comfortable accepting that I would not possibly know the answers to questions like how the universe began. But there's no reason to fill in the gap with some ignorant belief if the truth is, "I don't know".

My atheism goes along with a scientific way of looking at things with the scientific method being a lens I see through. It gives me a critical mind towards things, which I am better off for having on the whole.

I just thank the gods that I am an atheist as I'd hate reasoning like theists do - believing in the unseen made up in my own head with faith that it may be true.

Exactly!.

gensteejay:

Lols. I didn't mean any insult. Sorry.
I see you read wide and are a knowledgeable person; that was why I made reference to your comment on being a Jungian.
I am trying to reconcile the fact that you lean toward Jungian philosophy with your atheistic philosophy.

Carl Jung was a man, well versed in spirituality and philosophy, and did a number of studies that involved paranormal and occultic (not necessarily evil as ignorant religionists say) concepts.

His ideals seem contradictory to those of an atheist. How then do you regard some of his philosophical notions as veracious?

Many have understood Jung that way, but for me, he pulled the wool off the spiritual and occult. I don't read intending to confirm my already held views, I guess, and hope to be challenged, which he did. Besides, I'd read a lot of anthropology before approaching him so I might have been immune.

He explained how religion works and how it affects and influences people, and did say one has to kill one's gods. It depends how one sees him and the lens one wears whilst reading his works I'd say. I'd go as far as claiming he was an atheist at heart, or would be described as one by those who like labels. Same way I am labeled an atheist, gods being things that only exist in the minds of those in whom they are created. Gods are not created in my mind, but I understand how they exist in the minds of some. I guess the gods created buda an atheist, for all intents and purposes.

You didn't insult me by the way. buda is just oversensitive, as muttley says.

budaatum:

You didn't insult me by the way. buda is just oversensitive, as muttley says.

**Modified

All right. Although, I'm irreligious, I'm not an atheist either. And I also hate labels.

I perfectly understand why an atheist would regard the concept of God in religions as a sham. God and his attributes, as explained in religions, are creations and fabrications of men.

That doesn't mean there is no God. But I don't like to use the word, "God", to describe the Entity that I regard as Infinte Intelligence because that word has been grossly abused by all those jealous, insecure, and vengeful gods of religions that seek to be worshipped.

I know the universes, men, animals, and all that exists are created by an Entity. I prefer to call it The All, as Hermetic philosophers would say, or the Infinte Intelligence, and such an Entity wouldn't demand worship, punish people for evils they commit, and wouldn't create paradise or hell as places of reward or retribution, as the case may be.

And the Entity isn't sitting up there, monitoring our activities and regulating our affairs; every living thing, planet, universe, multiverse ... lies in The All. In other words, we are all parts or aspects of The All.

Associating things, like worship, prayer, forgiveness, benevolence, hate, love to the Infinite Intelligence is erroneous like the religionists do.

For instance, when science gets to an advanced level and virtually all societies become advanced ones, there is no need for anyone to pray. Prayer, as some philosophers say, is for the weak. Thinking is better and wiser.

The universe is governed by laws, and these laws do not recognize Forgiveness. The Infinite Intelligence is not emotional like the gods of religions.

All other examples I gave above — love, hate, etc.— are mere relativistic concepts, whose meanings and implications change, depending on your frame of reference.

I don't fathom how atheists have sought answers to these questions satisfactorily and reached the conclusion that there is no Infinite Intelligence (not God or gods as described in religions) behind the creation of our world and several hundreds of billion worlds out there.

Most people became an atheist due to the way and manner God is described in religions. After studying a number of religions myself, I have seen their flaws, which is why I embraced irreligion.

I have also studied atheism, and its core concepts, like the problem of evil and the problem of good, and have seen its flaws. (Though if a large percentage, or even 50% of Nigerians were atheists, this country would have been much more developed than this.)

How is it possible for the hundreds of billions of planets and billions of galaxies to come into existence from NOTHING?

I feel atheists, having recognised the flaws in religions, should also critique the atheistic philosophy and note its flaws, and read books on philosophy, especially the Hermetic Philosophy. These will enable one gain a better insight on reality and grow, instead of being stagnant in the parochiality of atheism.

gensteejay:

**Modified

All right. Although, I'm irreligious, I'm not an atheist either. And I also hate labels.

I perfectly understand why an atheist would regard the concept of God in religions as a sham. God and his attributes, as explained in religions, are creations and fabrications of men.

That doesn't mean there is no God. But I don't like to use the word, "God", to describe the Entity that I regard as Infinte Intelligence because that word has been grossly abused by all those jealous, insecure, and vengeful gods of religions that seek to be worshipped.

I know the universes, men, animals, and all that exists are created by an Entity. I prefer to call it The All, as Hermetic philosophers would say, or the Infinte Intelligence, and such an Entity wouldn't demand worship, punish people for evils they commit, and wouldn't create paradise or hell as places of reward or retribution, as the case may be.

And the Entity isn't sitting up there, monitoring our activities and regulating our affairs; every living thing, planet, universe, multiverse ... lies in The All. In other words, we are all parts or aspects of The All.

Associating things, like worship, prayer, forgiveness, benevolence, hate, love to the Infinite Intelligence is erroneous like the religionists do.

For instance, when science gets to an advanced level and virtually all societies become advanced ones, there is no need for anyone to pray. Prayer, as some philosophers say, is for the weak. Thinking is better and wiser.

The universe is governed by laws, and these laws do not recognize Forgiveness. The Infinite Intelligence is not emotional like the gods of religions.

All other examples I gave above — love, hate, etc.— are mere relativistic concepts, whose meanings and implications change, depending on your frame of reference.

I don't fathom how atheists have sought answers to these questions satisfactorily and reached the conclusion that there is no Infinite Intelligence (not God or gods as described in religions) behind the creation of our world and several hundreds of billion worlds out there.

Most people became an atheist due to the way and manner God is described in religions. After studying a number of religions myself, I have seen their flaws, which is why I embraced irreligion.

I have also studied atheism, and its core concepts, like the problem of evil and the problem of good, and have seen its flaws. (Though if a large percentage, or even 50% of Nigerians were atheists, this country would have been much more developed than this.)

How is it possible for the hundreds of billions of planets and billions of galaxies to come into existence from NOTHING?

I feel atheists, having recognised the flaws in religions, should also critique the atheistic philosophy and note its flaws, and read books on philosophy, especially the Hermetic Philosophy. These will enable one gain a better insight on reality and grow, instead of being stagnant in the parochiality of atheism.

Atheists do not say the universe comes from nothing, that is a religious worldview. Besides cosmology is not core to atheism neither is evolution but of course after rejecting the god or gods one is left with the burden to explain nature and reality.

As with all god(s) your position comes up against the question, what evidence do you possess of this infinite intelligence?

LordReed:


Atheists do not say the universe comes from nothing, that is a religious worldview. Besides cosmology is not core to atheism neither is evolution but of course after rejecting the god or gods one is left with the burden to explain nature and reality.

As with all god(s) your position comes up against the question, what evidence do you possess of this infinite intelligence?

A plethora of evidence abound: from microsystems, like microbes, animals, men, women, plants, etc. to macrosystems, like natural satellites (moons), planets, stars (or suns), galaxies, etc.

By studying all these and appreciating their complexity, one can observe a number of facts about them:

1. Each of the systems is governed by (natural/universal) Laws, Principles
2. Like these Laws and Principles cannot just become manifest out of thin air, these systems must have been designed by some intelligence
3. The precision in the mathematics of these system designs, though not perfect as far as humans can discern in their limited intelligence, is incredibly remarkable and couldn't have come about by chance, lest everything science and philosophy have been studying for ages, and even our own reality, wouldn't have been worth it.

All these pieces of evidence point to the important fact that there is a Great Intelligence, who is the brain behind all these systems. It's quite apparent, unless you believe something, and not just anything but gigantic universes, can come out of nothing.

gensteejay:

A plethora of evidence abound: from microsystems, like microbes, animals, men, women, plants, etc. to macrosystems, like natural satellites (moons), planets, stars (or suns), galaxies, etc.

By studying all these and appreciating their complexity, one can observe a number of facts about them:

1. Each of the systems is governed by (natural/universal) Laws, Principles
2. Like these Laws and Principles cannot just become manifest out of thin air, these systems must have been designed by some intelligence
3. The precision in the mathematics of these system designs, though not perfect as far as humans can discern in their limited intelligence, is incredibly remarkable and couldn't have come about by chance, lest everything science and philosophy have been studying for ages, and even our own reality, wouldn't have been worth it.

All these pieces of evidence point to the important fact that there is a Great Intelligence, who is the brain behind all these systems. It's quite apparent, unless you believe something, and not just anything but gigantic universes, can come out of nothing.

These are not evidence these are assertions. You are simply saying I can't think of what could have caused things to be therefore great intelligence did it.

You have no direct knowledge of the methods or styles this great intelligence uses to create by which you may distinguish its work from that of others. You have no direct proof of it creating anything. You have no direct knowledge of this great intelligence's autograph either by itself or on any material in this universe by which you may justify a claim to
creation.

Your assertions seem to be as unfounded as any of that of religions.

LordReed:


These are not evidence these are assertions. You are simply saying I can't think of what could have caused things to be therefore great intelligence did it.

You have no direct knowledge of the methods or styles this great intelligence uses to create by which you may distinguish its work from that of others. You have no direct proof of it creating anything. You have no direct knowledge of this great intelligence's autograph either by itself or on any material in this universe by which you may justify a claim to
creation.

Your assertions seem to be as unfounded as any of that of religions.

Very funny, so if I had such knowledge, I would be engaging in this discussion with you on Nl or will still be on this planet.

So, how did all those systems I mentioned earlier come about?By chance? Evolution? That's the answer I expected from you, not what you stated above.

gensteejay:

**Modified

All right. Although, I'm irreligious, I'm not an atheist either. And I also hate labels.

I perfectly understand why an atheist would regard the concept of God in religions as a sham. God and his attributes, as explained in religions, are creations and fabrications of men.

That doesn't mean there is no God. But I don't like to use the word, "God", to describe the Entity that I regard as Infinte Intelligence because that word has been grossly abused by all those jealous, insecure, and vengeful gods of religions that seek to be worshipped.

I know the universes, men, animals, and all that exists are created by an Entity. I prefer to call it The All, as Hermetic philosophers would say, or the Infinte Intelligence, and such an Entity wouldn't demand worship, punish people for evils they commit, and wouldn't create paradise or hell as places of reward or retribution, as the case may be.

And the Entity isn't sitting up there, monitoring our activities and regulating our affairs; every living thing, planet, universe, multiverse ... lies in The All. In other words, we are all parts or aspects of The All.

Associating things, like worship, prayer, forgiveness, benevolence, hate, love to the Infinite Intelligence is erroneous like the religionists do.

For instance, when science gets to an advanced level and virtually all societies become advanced ones, there is no need for anyone to pray. Prayer, as some philosophers say, is for the weak. Thinking is better and wiser.

The universe is governed by laws, and these laws do not recognize Forgiveness. The Infinite Intelligence is not emotional like the gods of religions.

All other examples I gave above — love, hate, etc.— are mere relativistic concepts, whose meanings and implications change, depending on your frame of reference.

I don't fathom how atheists have sought answers to these questions satisfactorily and reached the conclusion that there is no Infinite Intelligence (not God or gods as described in religions) behind the creation of our world and several hundreds of billion worlds out there.

Most people became an atheist due to the way and manner God is described in religions. After studying a number of religions myself, I have seen their flaws, which is why I embraced irreligion.

I have also studied atheism, and its core concepts, like the problem of evil and the problem of good, and have seen its flaws. (Though if a large percentage, or even 50% of Nigerians were atheists, this country would have been much more developed than this.)

How is it possible for the hundreds of billions of planets and billions of galaxies to come into existence from NOTHING?

I feel atheists, having recognised the flaws in religions, should also critique the atheistic philosophy and note its flaws, and read books on philosophy, especially the Hermetic Philosophy. These will enable one gain a better insight on reality and grow, instead of being stagnant in the parochiality of atheism.

I think the problem is that you don't really understand what atheism is
As an atheist I don't believe in God but that does not mean I don't believe that the universe could have an entity which caused or played a role in its existence ,there are a lot of things that we don't know about yet about the universe so I can sit here and make up theories about things I know nothing about,the word God like u said is often abused,I agree and you are also guilty of that because what u described in ur post as "The All" is not exactly what God is, so I think u are mixing things up
Atheists are not people who say that the universe does not have an entity that played a part in its existence,rather atheists are people who say that "God"(I mean the dictionary definition of God,not your own definition) is not the entity that played a role in the existence of the universe even if such an entity does exist,or once existed.
The entity in this case could be a singularity,uncountable or infinite, a being,a force,an immaterial thing or something completely beyond our reasoning and comprehension
So atheists are not close minded as you suggest,if the definition of God would be changed from a being that has emotions like us to mean the entity that played a role in the existence of the universe without any feature or nature being attached to it,then I could describe myself as agnostic,till then I am an atheist and I have no questions about my opinion

P.S I am not saying that such entity as described in my post exist,my opinion is simple,the universe is very complex and there a re a lot of things we don't know about it yet,science is making giant strides but it is unfortunate we don't recognize or even acknowledge them,u are an example,for you to question evolution shows that we are still far,even if it didn't occur exactly in the pattern described by scientists we have numerous solid evidences that evolution did occur but I won't go into that,but of course u should know that evolution doesn't claim to exist how the universe began.Back to what I was saying,I am not emphatically claiming that there is an entity that caused or created the universe(whatever u thnkthe word "created" means),I am rather implying that such is possible,there are a myriad of other possible explanations that could be given as well,so for now I wouldn't say that such an entity exists until there is proof so in that sense I would describe myself as agnostic (if I can use the word).
Lastly considering the relatively little knowledge I have about cosmology I feel that if such entity does exist it would be something beyond our comprehension maybe undimensional

Hermes019:

I think the problem is that you don't really understand what atheism is
As an atheist I don't believe in God but that does not mean I don't believe that the universe could have an entity which caused or played a role in its existence ,there are a lot of things that we don't know about yet about the universe so I can sit here and make up theories about things I know nothing about,the word God like u said is often abused,I agree and you are also guilty of that because what u described in ur post as "The All" is not exactly what God is, so I think u are mixing things up
Atheists are not people who say that the universe does not have an entity that played a part in its existence,rather atheists are people who say that "God"(I mean the dictionary definition of God,not your own definition) is not the entity that played a role in the existence of the universe even if such an entity does exist,or once existed.
The entity in this case could be a singularity,uncountable or infinite, being,a force,an immaterial thing or something completely beyond our reasoning and comprehension
So atheists are not close minded as you suggest,if the definition of God would be changed from a being that has emotions like us to mean the entity that played a role in the existence of the universe without any feature or nature being attached to it,then I could describe myself as agnostic,till then I am an atheist and I have no questions about my opinion

What's this one saying? Read and comprehend my post again and come up with a logical response to it. All I see here is balderdash.

Explain that nonsense I highlighted above, taking into consideration the distinction between atheism and theism. You don't believe in God but you believe an entity (which could in fact be a deity) has caused or played a role in the existence of the universe.

That's tripe. You're just confused.

gensteejay:

What's this one saying? Read and comprehend my post again and come up with a logical response to it. All I see here is balderdash.

Explain that nonsense I highlighted above, taking into consideration the distinction between atheism and theism. You don't believe in God but you believe an entity (which could in fact be a deity) has caused or played a role in the existence of the universe.

That's tripe. You're just confused.

Saying I am confused and calling what I said "nonsense" is a bit harsh and uncivilized but I will let it pass

Could you define God ?
Tell me God's features and
Tell me how you came to ascertain them

I hope we can have a mature and intellectual conversation without cursing at each other or trying to claim that "I am right and you are wrong "

I also modified the post I made earlier u might want to check that out