KunleOshob:

^^^
@pastorAIO
I can tell you authuritatively that the type of tithes image123 collects in his church is found nowwhere in the bible. The type he collects is the one instituted by the mamon god and it's collection started when mamon invaded the church in the 19th century long after the bible had been compiled.

That concludes the matter for me.

Pastor AIO:

That you've failed to answer.

Failed to answer what? Are you blind? If you're referring to the OP's, hear from the 'horse's mouth'

kokoye:

That was funny. 

Confetti,  I am sorry I skipped your post earlier because of the lenght of it. I just had time to go over it now.  Maybe the Lord reward you in ways that you desire. Amen.

I directed him to confetti's post, to kunle's tithe thread pages 1-3 and to the 'summary on tithe' thread. Like i said earlier, these issues have been earlier addressed, contrary to that hypocrite kunle's claims that deut 14 is anyone's albatross. I still recall your follies, one of which was leaving nl and going all the way to yahoo to search for a nairaland thread. Why didn't you search on bbc or naija hot.jobs. Folly X Hypocrisy.
If it's some other question you imply, well i'm not obliged to answering foolish questions. I'll rather avoid them. I won't be suprised if you and your ilk still come later to repeat these. Bunch of drunk drinkands
Proverbs 23v34 Yea, thou shalt be as he that lieth down in the midst of the sea, or as he that lieth upon the top of a mast. 35 They have stricken me, shalt thou say, and I was not sick; they have beaten me, and I felt it not: when shall I awake? I will seek it yet again.
NEXT.

Image123:

. . . Bunch of drunk drinkands. . . .

Na real wah.

Image123:

Failed to answer what? Are you blind?

I was referring to the obvious question that you must have been blind not to have seen, after all you even quoted it before answering. Which one of the numerous tithes do you collect in your shursh?

PS. I used the search button on the top of all NL pages, so if you consider that folly, no problem. Okay, I'm a fool, please help me, tell me which kind of the numerous kinds of tithes do you collect in your church? Since it is not the Deuteronomy one.

I'm a drunken drinkard of a drunk. I'm happy. At least Jesus too was called a drunkard. Please which of the tithes do you collect in you shursh? (just in case you are an ibadan man, and you don't understand church).

Perhaps you will consider it a foolish question.

COFFETTI,
u cldnt have said it beta.
The only thing i want to add is this:
In as much as Tithing thanking God for his blessing, there's also a blessing attached.
There's a blessing or lack of it attached to any instructions{note i dindtn even say LAW} given.

Wheenver u give to the poor, there's specific blessing it draws, when u give to the Lord also.

Ma Pastor will always say, as new testatment believer u can do wateva u want with God
You r in a relationship with him, so the extent to which u commit urself in anyway to him
is decided by u. There are instructions, but u will have to decide whether u wanna do it or not.

Also, i dont kno a beta way to pay tithe now apart from money. Very few of us are farmer, with
crops and sheep and co. And even those who do it eventually convert it to money.

oNe

@DBR
New testament believers are not required to pay tithe in any form. Tithing is not part of the christian faith taught by christ and handed down to us by the apostles. Titheing was first smuggled into the church in the year 585 AD well over 500 years after christianity was established. I suggest you do some independent research of this false doctrine devoid of your church leadership who would obviously be biased.

^are you suggesting that he stops flocking like a sheep, and put on the goat jersey, looking for what is not lost?

KunleOshob:

@DBR
New testament believers are not required to pay tithe in any form. Tithing is not part of the christian faith taught by christ and handed down to us by the apostles. Titheing was first smuggled into the church in the year 585 AD well over 500 years after christianity was established. I suggest you do some independent research of this false doctrine devoid of your church leadership who would obviously be biased.

Wat?? Tithin smuggled into the church??
When d bible say we aint under the law, does that mean we do not obey the law?
Plus, tithin came before the law.
Abrahm payed tithe to Melchi and he was not under the law.
Tithin is acknowledgin God as the possesor of e'rthi u got.
So why will doin it be contrary to new testament belief?
Yes it's not like if u dont thunder will strike u or u forced to do it
But if u understand under wat circumstances t'was initially done,
that its sth that comes from a heart of gratitude u will wanna do it.
U here talkin AD, Jesus speakin to the pharises didnt say payin tithe was bad.
He also said there are wieghtier matas, still not negletin the former{tithe}.

oNe

DBR:

So why will doin it be contrary to new testament belief?

It is contrary to new testament beliefs if you keep refering to it as an instruction.

DBR:

There's a blessing or lack of it attached to any instructions{note i dindtn even say LAW} given.

DBR:

There are instructions, but u will have to decide whether u wanna do it or not.

@Zikky
ur point being. . ?
Not if u see instruction as information on how sth shud be done rather than LAW to be enforsed.
The entire bible from Gen to Rev is filled with instructions.
Whicheva way u slice it, New testament didnt abolish tithe cos tithe didnt start under the law.
Even in old testament if im correct it wasnt a do or die affair but instructions for those who doin it, how to do it.
It's not in the class of the THO SHALL or SHALL NOTs.

Sayin it's CONTRARY to new testament is awkward.
There are practises which are really contrary to the new tetament carried on in some orthodox churches
a carry over from the old testament. .ppple aint sayin nothin bout those o.
This money issue shaa, well, like we said do waeva u do with a good heart, but sure there's a blessing
to payin tithe.

oNe

@DBR
As you may not be aware tithing is a well and thoroughly discussed topic on this forum and all the lies being bandied about to decieve christians into tithing as been thoroughly debated on this here, you may wish to visit https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113108.0.html to know how far we have gone on this topic so you would realize that you have stated nothing new. I see you are appealing to the abrahamic tithe to justify the racket, but is there any instruction in the bible that Israelites or even christians should tithe based on this one off action of abraham? We all know that pastors preach tithes based on malachi 3 which is based on the law and not from abraham's example which is a one off free will offering so why use this scripture to justify the mandatory tithes being extorted by pastors in our churches today. What we are saying today is the church and by extention most pastors are not being truthfully as far as tithes is concerned, they twist scriptures to justify the unbiblical nature of the tithes they extort from the ignorant, as christians some of us believe this is evil and it is very wrong to use scriptures to deceive people into parting with their hard earned income, pastors must preach the truth and leave christians to decided how much of their income they want to use to support the church.

@Kunleoshob

Well, i kow it's been dicussed in excess botherin on overfloggin.
But here's ma view to it.
Abraham gave tithe b4 the law.
Under the law pple gave diffrerent types of Tithes.
1 of it supports the ministry.
Here comes new testament, we no longer under the law.
But wait, all the commandments were under the law.
So shud we not keep the commandment cos we not under the law in new testament.

Even tho it's stated that the law was neva meant to save man.
And since we are referd to as connected to abraham, being the example
of some1 who was justified by faith , and he did pay tithe,
plus we still have ministries and pastor workin full time, y shud
payin tithe be seen as a fruad
Plus, ma pastor doesnt threaten anybody bout tithe or offerin.
He tells u, u are a believer, in a relationship wit Jesus, waeva u wanna do
that's not contradicti d scripture do.
So if in appreciation of blessin and victory abraham gave, y must i think
it's a means of extortin money from me to give, mores when there's no pressure
from ma P to give it?? Plus, i kno there's a blessin in givin?

oNe

Kunle na by force?
The guy said "waever you do", are you a cultist? Why are you compassing land and sea, HYPOCRITE.

@DBR
As long as your pastor is not twisting scriptures to extort a mandatory tithe and he is also not using reverse psycology to put those not tithing into a guilt trap, then there is no problem with that. However provision made for support of ministers under the new covenant is free will offerings to be determined by the giver and NOT tithes. Presenting tithes as a christian doctrine is dishonest and misleading.

@DBR
You need to understand this topic very well,
No body is saying tithing is bad but the way and manner this pastors cook it
this days is not scriptural, most churches document it and they refer to it
any time you have some thing doing in church "are you a tither"
and that will go a long way to determine how they will attend to you.
just imagine, bible did not made it compulsory for us to bring our tithe to church
the way all this pastor are preaching this day,
What about the widow, the fatherless and the stranger no body care for them
all the pastors care about is bring the money to church and even when they
remember this set of people they will raise special offering for them, so what happen to tithe then.

tommy t
ma issue is the generalisation, "ALL THESE pastors".
Plus, they all at diferent level of understanding the scriptures.
But why so much about the money?
What bout incense burnin' and some other practices contrary to new testament??

Plus, u have to understand the dynamics of the church. .
Not e'rthin that is now, was then. Churches were held in homes then,
so is it wrong to have edifices now? There was a common purse of believers then,
shud all christians now share a common purse today?
So tithing has become a systematic way of giving and supportin' the church, it's
staff et al. I think most pple complainin have money issues, really?
Also, if u concetrate on how much YOU give as tithe u'l see it's meagre
compared to wat the church is doin' in terms of up keep, salaries and all.
Let's say YOU make a million in a month, ur tithe is just a 100k, forget wat OTHERS
are payin, so dyu expect the church to funtion, the pastor to live, ad pay salaries and every other thing
on 100k WHICH U MAY NOT GIVE cos u dot feel like it
Shud the salaries of workers in the church,upkeep of the pastor, bills and which are regular
now be left to a whims of the people. They have to be encouraged to do it.
And the Bible is NOT AGAINST IT.
PLUS, THERE'S A BLESSING IN GIVIN" i cant say that enuff.
So if u feel ur church and pastor shud get regular support from u, Tithing
becomes a SYSTEMATIC way to do it.

Lemme even say, let's assume u were forced to do it,
if u truly believe that it's u acknowledging tha God has blessed u,
and he does it not ones in a while and that there's a blessing in tithing
i tell u, u wuddnt mind doin it afterall.



oNe

Abraham gave tithe b4 the law.

Abraham also offered burnt offering and compulsory circumcision b4 the law was given .Why don't pastors peach these ones in church ?

chukwudi44:

Abraham also offered burnt offering and compulsory circumcision b4 the law was given .Why don't pastors peach these ones in church ?

LOL. . .
Cos burnt offering,circumcision aint required no more for salvation. .u havnt read that??
U hav to understand things that are salvation based and those that are social/civil conduct.
Christ has been sacrificed ones and for all, so we need not do burt sacrifice again and as paul
said there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcised nor uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave nor free, but Christ is all and in all.

However, giving or tithig remains, not as a means of Salvation, but as an act of gratitude to God for blessing u.
That was what Abraham did. He called God the POSSESOR of all things. He's acknowledgin that the victory he
had at the battle of the 5kings was because of God, he acknowledged that it's God that's prospering him, so he tithed.

So if u believe God is same to u, is the possesor of all u have, he's the one blessing u, that it's not ur intellect, or power
that has given u all what u have and the victories u'v had. . .and the ones u xpecting, how can TITHE be called fraudulent.
and some of u say it's not for New testament believer??
Plus, no one isputtin a gun at ur navel sayin UR TITHE OR UR LIFE.
Or is there?

oNe

DBR:

LOL. . .
Cos burnt offering,circumcision aint required no more for salvation. .u havnt read that??
U hav to understand things that are salvation based and those that are social/civil conduct.
Christ has been sacrificed ones and for all, so we need not do burt sacrifice again and as paul
said there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcised nor uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave nor free, but Christ is all and in all.

However, giving or tithig remains, not as a means of Salvation, but as an act of gratitude to God for blessing u.
That was what Abraham did. He called God the POSSESOR of all things. He's acknowledgin that the victory he
had at the battle of the 5kings was because of God, he acknowledged that it's God that's prospering him, so he tithed.

So if u believe God is same to u, is the possesor of all u have, he's the one blessing u, that it's not your intellect, or power
that has given u all what u have and the victories u'v had. . .and the ones u xpecting, how can TITHE be called fraudulent.
and some of u say it's not for New testament believer??
Plus, no one isputtin a gun at your navel sayin your TITHE OR your LIFE.
Or is there?

oNe

What if I want to make burnt offering in gratitude to God (not for salvation). Is that okay?

Pastor AIO:

What if I want to make burnt offering in gratitude to God (not for salvation).  Is that okay?

Hehehe. . .Dude , go ahead.
If after u have the understandin' that He's no longer interested in such sacrifices.
Maybe if u put enuff Kilishi or Suya seasonin' He'l change his mind.

Like ma P says, u are in a relationship with Jesus, ask him.
Wateva u wanna do, pls do. And if He's told u this is wat i accept,
u may be able to convince Him, tell Him u really wanna thank Him but u feel
burnt offering wuld be the better way that'l acceptable to Him.
Goodluck. .{no Jonathan} 

oNe

DBR:

Also, if u concetrate on how much YOU give as tithe u'l see it's meagre
compared to wat the church is doin' in terms of up keep, salaries and all.
Let's say YOU make a million in a month, your tithe is just a 100k, forget wat OTHERS
are payin, so dyu expect the church to funtion, the pastor to live, ad pay salaries and every other thing
on 100k WHICH U MAY NOT GIVE cos u dot feel like it

What’s wrong in just listing out the liabilities of the church (as an independent and registered entity), and requesting members support to cover these costs?

DBR:

Shud the salaries of workers in the church,upkeep of the pastor, bills and which are regular
now be left to a whims of the people.

YES. It’s their money and it’s called free-will.

DBR:

They have to be encouraged to do it.
And the Bible is NOT AGAINST IT.

Forced to do it, that’s what you are saying here.

DBR:

So tithing has become a systematic way of giving and supportin' the church, it's
staff et al.

So who came up with the idea of making tithing a systematic way of giving and supporting the church, it's staff et al?

DBR:

So if u feel your church and pastor shud get regular support from u, Tithing
becomes a SYSTEMATIC way to do it.

I see you are recommending tithing here to support your pastor. You’re beginning to sound like pastor sir. But there is no problem if the congregation agrees to go along with your recommendation. It only becomes a problem if you have to lie/coerce (by twisting the words to your advantage) them into cooperating.

DBR:

Lemme even say, let's assume u were forced to do it,

You really don’t care bout these souls, do you? Look like you it’s the money you are after. What is the value in the show of gratitude if it’s not coming from a willing heart?

DBR:

and some of u say it's not for New testament believer??

Correction: New Testament believers are not mandated to tithe. The decision to tithe is personal.

We treated it in church yesterday.
MALACHI 3:8-12

Zikkyy:

Correction: New Testament believers are not mandated to tithe. The decision to tithe is personal.

Y'all make laff, seriously.
Dunno if u'v been readin me or not.
New testament saint aint even MANDATED to do anythin'. .if
u wanna look at mandate as LAW.
There are many things we are not mandated to do, but we do
and advised to do cos they have benefits.
U are NOT under the law as NTS, yet we know it's expedient to keep it
and so we do, dont we? I ask again why this particular interest in Tithe

The decision to be a Christian is personal, still u are admonished to be one
because there's benefit.
It's pesonal to be act as a christian but shud u be "Christianly" only when u want to?.
So dont come here sayin all that tithe is a personal thing,
Ur faith, ur walk, prayer life . . .e'rthing is personal, yet we get preached to
everyday to daily. . hourly live in a particular way.
Y havnt u complained bout those??
oNe

DBR:

I ask again why this particular interest in Tithe

Because it is the main means via which many criminal organisations fleece poor and gullible people. It is concern for this scam that is making so many christians speak out against the tithing malarkey.

Pastor AIO:

Because it is the main means via which many criminal organisations fleece poor and gullible people.  It is concern for this scam that is making so many christians speak out against the tithing malarkey. 

Yea yea, i've asked is any1 pointin a gun to your groin sayin your Tithe or your life??
Callin your church a criminal organisation becos of Tithe really shows the kinda christian u urself are
. . and that's just assumin u r one. And it means u are also a member of the criminal organisation.
And if we calculate your own tithe i guess it's less than wat can be refered to as FLEECE.
And believe me, i aint an easy person to persuade or convince, so im far from being gullible.
The fact that u cannot exercise the level of faith to do it is no person's problem but urs.
pple doin it are following a good example that is biblical,and beneficiary to them.

Plus, Im waiting when threads will be opened about what the churches are doin right, but of
course none of y'all is interested in such as it wont give u the opportunity to engage in
malarkey as u call it. Cos y'all r d ones talkin nonesense, really.

Term it wateva u want, as long as Abraham ,Jesus, the apostles and the bible didnt call it so, ma bruv
knock urself out with waeva label u wanna put on it.

oNe

DBR:

New testament saint aint even MANDATED to do anythin'. .if
u wanna look at mandate as LAW.
There are many things we are not mandated to do, but we do
and advised to do cos they have benefits.

DBR:

The decision to be a Christian is personal, still u are admonished to be one
because there's benefit.
It's pesonal to be act as a christian[b] but shud u be "Christianly" only when u want to?.[/b]
So dont come here sayin all that tithe is a personal thing,

I don’t understand you sir, first you agree tithe is not mandatory, and then you make statements like the one above. Are you saying I am not a Christian if I don’t pay my tithe? Your post above suggests you support mandatory tithing. Please clarify sir?

DBR:

Plus, Im waiting when threads will be opened about what the churches are doin right, but of
course none of y'all is interested in such as it wont give u the opportunity to engage in
malarkey as u call it.

Why don’t you come up with one? Raise a topic on what churches are not doing right, am sure you get the required contributions.

DBR:

And if we calculate your own tithe i guess it's less than wat can be refered to as FLEECE.

You are definitely hungry. If found guity of robbery, the jail term will not be calculated based on the value of the amount stolen.

DBR:

Cos y'all r d ones talkin nonesense, really.

I understand. Anti-corruption talks always sound like nonsense to the average politician in Nigeria, really

Zikkyy:

I don’t understand you sir, first you agree tithe is not mandatory, and then you make statements like the one above. Are you saying I am not a Christian if I don’t pay my tithe? Your post above suggests you support mandatory tithing. Please clarify sir?

Gosh!!!!. . .now i think im gettin wat d dudes being sayin 'bout goin in circles.
Wat satisfaction do u get from takin text out of context??
Shud i write in your mother tongue to help your comprehension?
Cos i feel u kno exactly wat im sayin but u just need to. . .
Anyways, i'ma go again. .

The major issue is this, some guys say tithin is nit for NTS.
I say yes it is. Cos Tithing started b4 the LAW,
the reason for tithing still exists in two ways:
1-personal, acknowledgin that God is the possesor, the one who blesses u, and prospers u.
2-as a support system for the pastor, the church bills and xpenses et al.
So as long as there is church, pastor and u agree that God is the blesser, u have the
"authorization" or platform to tithe.

Is it Mandatory?
I say NO, nothin is MANDATORY in the new testament, but there are things that are expedient.

People taggin it as fraudulent, scam, fleece, criminal is what i'm amazed at.
Jesus didnt tell pple not to pay tithe, he didnt enforce it either, he didnt enforce anythin, really.
He didnt say it's a LAW for u to give your life, to accept Him or anythin.

Some say ITS PERSONAL, so Pastors shudnt talk about it, and i say e'rthin is personal.
Faith is personal, yet they talk bout it e'rtime, o one is complainin'.
Prayer is personal, they talk bout it, no one is frownin, even tho it can be so tiresome to pray
and u dontt feel like it.

So dear, if u r born again u are goin to heaven cos u a christian,
not payin your tithe wont stop u, as ma P will say.

OK zikky, i was answering u , until i saw your 2nd post and it's apparent u out for balderdashh.

Why don’t you come up with one? Raise a topic on what churches are not doing right, am sure you get the required contributions.

Is anythin stoppin u? iF of all i said these are the things u quotin, i dont kno wat to make of your intention, definately not to discuss and see reasons.

You are definitely hungry. If found guity of robbery, the jail term will not be calculated based on the value of the amount stolen.

Errmm. . u kinda right, im hungry. It's past ma breaktime and here i am talkin wit sm1 who aint reasonin wit d point.
Wats the bullock u typed above? cant make any sense of it and wat it's gotta do with the discussion.

I understand. Anti-corruption talks always sound like nonsense to the average politician in Nigeria, really

Still don t know the relevance, u sure u on the right thread.?
Check well, maybe u missed the Nigeria at 50 button.


oNe

The tithe was a requirement of the law in which all Israelites were to give 10 percent of everything they earned and grew to the Tabernacle/Temple (Leviticus 27:30; Numbers 18:26; Deuteronomy 14:24; 2 Chronicles 31:5). In fact, the Old Testament Law required multiple tithes which would have pushed the total to around 23.3 percent, not the 10 percent which is generally considered the tithe amount today. Some understand the Old Testament tithe as a method of taxation to provide for the needs of the priests and Levites in the sacrificial system. The New Testament nowhere commands, or even recommends, that Christians submit to a legalistic tithe system. Paul states that believers should set aside a portion of their income in order to support the church (1 Corinthians 16:1-2).

The New Testament nowhere designates a percentage of income a person should set aside, but only says it is to be “in keeping with income” (1 Corinthians 16:2). Some in the Christian church have taken the 10 percent figure from the Old Testament tithe and applied it as a “recommended minimum” for Christians in their giving.

We are to give as we are able. Sometimes that means giving more than 10 percent; sometimes that may mean giving less. It all depends on the ability of the Christian and the needs of the church. Every Christian should diligently pray and seek God’s wisdom in the matter of participating in tithing and/or how much to give (James 1:5).

Above all, all tithes and offerings should be given with pure motives and an attitude of worship to God and service to the body of Christ. “Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver” (2 Corinthians 9:7).

@Pastor DBR
i think Zikkyy has done justice to most of what i have for you
but how come you skip those bold part of my message, in fact let me post again for you

tommy t:

What about the widow, the fatherless and the stranger no body care for them
all the pastors care about is bring the money to church and even when they
remember this set of people they will raise special offering for them, so what happen to tithe then.

i think this are the group of people the tithe is meant for not all the salary stuff you talk abou
also pls try and back up the you plenty plenty point with bible at least a verse
cos have started thinking you are one those pastors that always tell their congregation
that if they don't pay tithe things will be tight for them

@DBR
you still don't get it, nobody is saying it is wrong to give any percentage of your income to the church to support it's activities. What we have consisitently said is wrong, fraudulent and evil is to twist the word of God to justify mandatory tithing which is not required of christians. Your appeal to abrahamic tithe does not hold water cos this was a one off transaction on a special occassion, Abraham was never recorded to tihe regularly from his income like those scammers would have us believe. That aside the true church of christ was never intended to be the kind of large organized structures we have today running large overheads with the pastor CEO earning a seven figure salary. The structure of the biblical church was simple and overheads limited, infact offerings was mostly used to take care of the poor and the needy amongst them contrary to the practise today that it is mostly used to "run" the church and ensure a luxurious lifestyle for the CEO. It is quite shamefull that most churches have ignored the primary reason for collections in the early church which was for charity and they now use most of the funds to build edificies [which don't glorify God in anyway] to the glory of themsleves and the ego of their pastor whilst ignoring the saints jesus clearly mandatged us to take care of. Jesus even went to the extent of making it a requirement for salvation in matthew 25:31-40 yet these greedy pastors would rather lead the flock astray and send them to damnation becos of their love for filthy lucre. I can asure you that when jesus comes he would deny at least 95% of the churches that claim to preach in his name becos they are not doing his will or the will of the father who they claim to worship. A word is enough for the wise, wake up and follow christ instead of following your pastor or manmade church doctrines at the detriment of your salvation. The bible says "people perish for lack of knowledge" i hope this will not be your case in Jesus name.