najib632:
Provide for me an evidence of the messenger of Allah S.A.W crossing a river during his travels and I will keep shut right now, in Islam we don't just assume things we prove it from the Qur'an and the Sunnah. Other religions allowed this that's why they became corrupted.
The prophet Muhammad S.A.W was not referring to the entire peninsula because Christians are still allowed to settle there

Imam Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani maintains that:

The pagans are not allowed to settle specifically in the Hijaz region, meaning Makkah, Madinah, al-Yamamah, and their environs. It does not apply to other regions that are considered part of the Arabian Peninsula. This is because everyone is agreed that they may live in Yemen, though it is part of the Arabian Peninsula. This is the opinion of the majority of scholars. (Fath al-Bari 6/198)

Your questions are very funny. It is like asking me to provide evidence where some stories in the Qur'an came from knowing fully that we have the Jews and the Christian scriptures at the time of Mohammed from which Mohammed lifted (and edited) some of the stories into the Quran.

Let's look at this in two ways. One, he might have heard similar stories from the people around him on sea meeting but never mixing. I have never been to the US but my relatives, in the US, have told me many things and places in the US, they also share pictures with me as a physical evidence. I can equally pass this information across while I haven't seen set my foot on the US. So for the sake of argument, let's say Mohammed never saw a river or a sea, however he would have, in the course of his 50yrs adulthood, met people who have travelled far and wide and have told stories of what they saw on the sea and rivers. The distance between Saudi Arabia and Indian, by sea, is less than 48hrs and many Arab merchants travel across the Indian ocean for trade.

The second point is that he might have seen it himself. Before Mohammed's alleged prophethood, he was a salesman to a wealthy widow named khadija. He covered thousands of miles across many lands to do his business transaction, so it is almost impossible to assume that he never entered boat at one point or the other. Hence the idea that an imaginary god told his that rivers meet and never mix is a lie. It is like NASA telling the world that a god just tell them there is another planet while they have powerful machines to detect that.

In conclusion, no any Allah told Mohammed what he wrote in the Quran concerning this subject; he most certainly got it from a secondary source.

true2god:
Your questions are very funny. It is like asking me to provide evidence where some stories in the Qur'an came from knowing fully that we have the Jews and the Christian scriptures at the time of Mohammed from which Mohammed lifted (and edited) some of the stories into the Quran.

You seem to be a fool, show me the teacher that prophet Muhammad S.A.W studied under, if you claim he copied from the Torah or Zabur you're lying because he doesn't know how to speak Hebrew , if you say have he copied from Injeel you're still lying because he never had an encounter with any Christian apart from the cousin(Waraq ibn Nawfal) of his first wife Khadijah bint Khiwaylid. You think you can come here and declare things to be lies, with providing an academic argument. Scholars like Imam Malik, Imam Abu Hanifa, Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal, Imam As-shafi'i, Imam Az-zuhuri, the scholars from amongst the Sahaba, the khulafaa'u rashidun didn't falsify it, but you a common ignorant kafir who reads post from the internet and declares himself a scholar thinks he can falsify it, you must be really daft.

true2god:

Let's look at this in two ways. One, he might have heard similar stories from the people around him on sea meeting but never mixing. I have never been to the US but my relatives, in the US, have told me many things and places in the US, they also share pictures with me as a physical evidence. I can equally pass this information across while I haven't seen set my foot on the US. So for the sake of argument, let's say Mohammed never saw a river or a sea, however he would have, in the course of his 50yrs adulthood, met people who have travelled far and wide and have told stories of what they saw on the sea and rivers. The distance between Saudi Arabia and Indian, by sea, is less than 48hrs and many Arab merchants travel across the Indian ocean for trade.

This where you're being stupid, the Qur'an is a revelation to prophet Muhammad S.A.W from Allah through angel Jibreel, even he humbles himself to the words of the Qur'an when it rebukes him when he behaves, is about to do something or say or said something wrong. There are several places in the Qur'an that the messenger of Allah S.A.W is commanded to carry out an act or refrain from it such as forbidden him and family and relatives from accepting alms. What's the selfishness that you can point out to me that prophet Muhammad S.A.W had done which benefited him with wealth, this is some that did not have furnitures in his house even though he was the supreme leader of Arabia. And you're here saying nonsense this you don't even know about.

true2god:

The second point is that he might have seen it himself. Before Mohammed's alleged prophethood, he was a salesman to a wealthy widow named khadija. He covered thousands of miles across many lands to do his business transaction, so it is almost impossible to assume that he never entered boat at one point or the other. Hence the idea that an imaginary god told his that rivers meet and never mix is a lie. It is like NASA telling the world that a god just tell them there is another planet while they have powerful machines to detect that.

You should provide an evidence from the seerah or hadith that the routes he followed had rivers if you cannot may Allah disgrace you.

true2god:

In conclusion, no any Allah told Mohammed what he wrote in the Quran concerning this subject; he most certainly got it from a secondary source.

وَلَقَدۡ أَنزَلۡنَآ إِلَيۡكَ ءَايَٰتِۭ بَيِّنَٰتٖۖ وَمَا يَكۡفُرُ بِهَآ إِلَّا ٱلۡفَٰسِقُونَ

(Sahih International)
And We have certainly revealed to you verses [which are] clear proofs, and no one would deny them except the defiantly disobedient.

-Sura Al-Baqarah, Ayah 99

You must provide an evidence of a secondary source, give us a name an instance or a hadith or a verse from the Qur'an or previous revelations to other prophets that he was educated, or from a seerah source that he had a teacher kr attend poetry classes like Umar ibn khattab R.A.

Ya still in this

true2god:

- Even the Shia and some other Muslim sects will disagree with you Muhammad was an illiterate.

Any Muslim that disagrees with this statement is an innovator and on the verge of disbelief. Let them provide an evidence of the messenger of Allah S.A.W writing, or studying apart from him revising the memorization of the Qur'an with angel Jibril.

true2god:

- You can't provide strong independent evidence Muhammad was an illiterate, you only read it from books that made the claim, you only believe in the myths you were told.

provide a myth that has an acknowledged chain of narrators that claim he was literate or a scholarly concensus from a scholar the first 300 years of Islam that says so and what are his reasons.

true2god:

- Even if we for assumption sake agree Muhammad was an illiterate it doesn't stop him from copying and composing the Quran, it's something he can call someone to write it for him which he eventually did according to some Muslim beliefs. The Quran was written by his companions and assembled together by them.

How would an literate subject himself to an illiterate if truly what Muhammad S.A.W brought was not an outstanding truth? You know that the companions have been recording revelations since the time of prophet Muhammad S.A.W then why do you say that I should be suspicious of Uthman R.A. when you know well that he so much loved the Qur'an that he was permitted to recite the whole of it everyday? Your hypocrisy will lead you to the hell fire.

true2god:

- Since the Quran was assembled after his death, you aren't skeptical of anything?

Why should I be sceptical about anything when Allah has taken an oath to protect the Qur'an from any temparing? You accuse the most trusted companions of the messenger of Allah S.A.W who are trusted by Allah and his messenger of corruption? By Allah these men are better than and will forever be better than what you think about them. Any one who believes that the Qur'an is tampered with is a disbeliever. May Allah expose the liers.

true2god:

- The story of Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, David, Alexander, Solomon, Jesus etc to name the few. They were all Jewish and some ancient mythology, the Quran copied these stories, many Quran stories are rip-off of previous ancient myths, the Jews and some other tribes lived with the Arab pagans during pre-islamic era.

You're just stupid, challenging what you don't know. All of these stories have more or less details in Islam and we will stick to what Allah and his messenger taught us. Dawud A.S. that the Jews accuse of fornication, they call Suleiman A.S. a womanizer, the Jews that don't even believe in the prophet of Isa A.S. Stupid arrogant person who doesn't know anything but thinks he can challenge the religion of Allah from his ignorance. Tell me any Jewish tribe from the Tribe of Quraish or living close to Mecca or in Mecca or in Ta'if, Or tell me of any encounter with the messenger of Allah S.A.W with any Jew before his migration to Medina.

true2god:

If we are to go to court, we would sue the writer/s of the Quran for plagiarism if it were today. I gave analogy how i copied stories from previous comics and published it, I can be sue for copyright infringement.

This shows how stupid you are comparing a book of guidance with that of entertainment. Sue the writers of the Qur'an and you will still come out disgraced.

najib632:
Any Muslim that disagrees with this statement is an innovator and on the verge of disbelief. Let them provide an evidence of the messenger of Allah S.A.W writing, or studying apart from him revising the memorization of the Qur'an with angel Jibril.

You copied me on wrongly, as if I made the original statement, while attempting to quote 'Tintinz'. You need do a better job on who you wanna qoute. That aside, it is a common knowledge among Muslim historians that Mohammed was employed by a wealthy widow, Khadija (who later became his wife), as a salesman and a book-keeper. There is no any logical reason for a millionaire like Khadija to employ a stark illiterate to run her business empire. No one does that,either then or now.

najib632:
Provide a myth that has an acknowledged chain of narrators that claim he was literate or a scholarly concensus from a scholar the first 300 years of Islam that says so and what are his reasons.

As I said earlier, hadith is basically large volumes of gossips and Chinese whispers most of which has been deemed as weak or completely fabricated. How can you trust a source which most has been certified as 'unauthentic'?

najib632:
How would an literate subject himself to an illiterate if truly what Muhammad S.A.W brought was not an outstanding truth? You know that the companions have been recording revelations since the time of prophet Muhammad S.A.W then why do you say that I should be suspicious of Uthman R.A. when you know well that he so much loved the Qur'an that he was permitted to recite the whole of it everyday? Your hypocrisy will lead you to the hell fire.

Buhari is rumored not to have school certificate but his VP is a 'professor' of Law subjected to a near literate. This does not make Buhari's decisions divine. A less educated but powerful man can employ a highly qualified man to do his job. Asari Dokubo owns a University but I doubt if he a University graduate. Even educated men still employ a secretary. On Uthman, how do you know he loves the Quran? The present Quran has no manuscript dated from the time of Uthman because he burnt them. Why did Uthman burn what could have been used to validate the authencity of the quran if he has nothing to hide?

najib632:
Why should I be sceptical about anything when Allah has taken an oath to protect the Qur'an from any temparing? You accuse the most trusted companions of the messenger of Allah S.A.W who are trusted by Allah and his messenger of corruption? By Allah these men are better than and will forever be better than what you think about them. Any one who believes that the Qur'an is tampered with is a disbeliever. May Allah expose the liers.

Where did you get this claim outside the Islamic source itself? A man once told me that exclusivity is the right claim when making a truth statement. All religion claim authentic from their own religious document and this is highly subjective and relative. A christian and a Jew will equally claim the quran to be false while their Bible is the only truth. All now depends on the side of the divide you find yourself. And for the records, Allah was in the business of abrogating; this alone is a red-flag.

najib632:
You're just stupid, challenging what you don't know. All of these stories have more or less details in Islam and we will stick to what Allah and his messenger taught us. Dawud A.S. that the Jews accuse of fornication, they call Suleiman A.S. a womanizer, the Jews that don't even believe in the prophet of Isa A.S. Stupid arrogant person who doesn't know anything but thinks he can challenge the religion of Allah from his ignorance. Tell me any Jewish tribe from the Tribe of Quraish or living close to Mecca or in Mecca or in Ta'if, Or tell me of any encounter with the messenger of Allah S.A.W with any Jew before his migration to Medina.

There is no any book written to confirm that the Jews called David and Solomon womanizers. Internet trolls can do that. The Jews do not believe in Jesus, and so? All religion that sound irrational should be challenged to defend their religion with facts and not emotions as you are displaying here.

najib632:
This shows how stupid you are comparing a book of guidance with that of entertainment. Sue the writers of the Qur'an and you will still come out disgraced.

In this modern world the writer of the quran will be sued for plagiarizing the Jewish Torah and talmud, the Christian injil and the Zoroastrian scriptures. You can't copy and edit from existing material and call your new material 'the one and only truth'. That's crazy!

najib632:
You seem to be a fool, show me the teacher that prophet Muhammad S.A.W studied under, if you claim he copied from the Torah or Zabur you're lying because he doesn't know how to speak Hebrew , if you say have he copied from Injeel you're still lying because he never had an encounter with any Christian apart from the cousin(Waraq ibn Nawfal) of his first wife Khadijah bint Khiwaylid. You think you can come here and declare things to be lies, with providing an academic argument. Scholars like Imam Malik, Imam Abu Hanifa, Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal, Imam As-shafi'i, Imam Az-zuhuri, the scholars from amongst the Sahaba, the khulafaa'u rashidun didn't falsify it, but you a common ignorant kafir who reads post from the internet and declares himself a scholar thinks he can falsify it, you must be really daft.

You need open your critical reasoning mind. The Jews and were living in Mecca and Medina before Mohammed was born and the people there were familiar with the contents of their scriptures, either written or oral transmission. I am not a Muslim but I am familiar with some basic Islamic beliefs, and I want to believe that Mohammed was equally familiar with the basic christian beliefs (quran 9:28,30). If what Mohammed preached was similar to Jewish and Christians beliefs, it is logical to assume that his thought and beliefs was shaped by what was being preached and practiced within his immediate environment. Mohammed did not teach anything related to Chinese or Japanese culture. This shouldn't be too hard to understand.

najib632:
This where you're being stupid, the Qur'an is a revelation to prophet Muhammad S.A.W from Allah through angel Jibreel, even he humbles himself to the words of the Qur'an when it rebukes him when he behaves, is about to do something or say or said something wrong. There are several places in the Qur'an that the messenger of Allah S.A.W is commanded to carry out an act or refrain from it such as forbidden him and family and relatives from accepting alms. What's the selfishness that you can point out to me that prophet Muhammad S.A.W had done which benefited him with wealth, this is some that did not have furnitures in his house even though he was the supreme leader of Arabia. And you're here saying nonsense this you don't even know about.

I am not stupid, you only need to open your mind to divergent view. When Mohammed was alive there nothing like the quran as we have it today. Mohammed will be shocked if he rises from the dead and see what you call the quran today. The present-day quran is the project of the khalifa and was sanctioned and approved by Uthman Ibn Affan, a government project. This is one of the reasons the quran does not make any sense without the seerah or the hadith. The Khalifa did a bad job of what they were not sent to do by Mohammed.

najib632:
You should provide an evidence from the seerah or hadith that the routes he followed had rivers if you cannot may Allah disgrace you.


وَلَقَدۡ أَنزَلۡنَآ إِلَيۡكَ ءَايَٰتِۭ بَيِّنَٰتٖۖ وَمَا يَكۡفُرُ بِهَآ إِلَّا ٱلۡفَٰسِقُونَ

(Sahih International)
And We have certainly revealed to you verses [which are] clear proofs, and no one would deny them except the defiantly disobedient.

-Sura Al-Baqarah, Ayah 99

You must provide an evidence of a secondary source, give us a name an instance or a hadith or a verse from the Qur'an or previous revelations to other prophets that he was educated, or from a seerah source that he had a teacher kr attend poetry classes like Umar ibn khattab R.A.

All the evident you need are in your source documents. A hadith narration confirmed that mohammed assumed the sun set in a muddy spring. How did he know that if he never saw any body of waters? You asked Allah to disgrace me? You will grow old and nothing Allah will do to me.

Empiree:
Ya still in this

ignorance

You mistake my post with true2god.

And I can see how frustrated you're. @bolded

najib632:
Any Muslim that disagrees with this statement is an innovator and on the verge of disbelief. Let them provide an evidence of the messenger of Allah S.A.W writing, or studying apart from him revising the memorization of the Qur'an with angel Jibril.

Actually they have their evidence, they won't be making such statement without their subjective evidence.

provide a myth that has an acknowledged chain of narrators that claim he was literate or a scholarly concensus from a scholar the first 300 years of Islam that says so and what are his reasons.

- Muhammad was said to be a business man, you can't tell me such person is completely an illiterate.

- Are you also saying Muhammad was not able to confirm what was revealed to him?

- There was a time Muhammad requested for pen and paper, please to do what?

How would an literate subject himself to an illiterate if truly what Muhammad S.A.W brought was not an outstanding truth? You know that the companions have been recording revelations since the time of prophet Muhammad S.A.W then why do you say that I should be suspicious of Uthman R.A. when you know well that he so much loved the Qur'an that he was permitted to recite the whole of it everyday? Your hypocrisy will lead you to the hell fire.

So you completely trust those that assembled the Quran?

Why should I be sceptical about anything when Allah has taken an oath to protect the Qur'an from any temparing? You accuse the most trusted companions of the messenger of Allah S.A.W who are trusted by Allah and his messenger of corruption? By Allah these men are better than and will forever be better than what you think about them. Any one who believes that the Qur'an is tampered with is a disbeliever. May Allah expose the liers.

Humans are not perfect, you don't put complete trust on humans.

According to Muslims the previous scriptures were tampered, if Allah cannot protect his previous books I don't understand how the Quran can't be tampered and besides I don't see the purpose of the imaginary protection of the Quran when there are already diversity in the Muslim ummah.

You're just stupid, challenging what you don't know. All of these stories have more or less details in Islam and we will stick to what Allah and his messenger taught us. Dawud A.S. that the Jews accuse of fornication, they call Suleiman A.S. a womanizer, the Jews that don't even believe in the prophet of Isa A.S. Stupid arrogant person who doesn't know anything but thinks he can challenge the religion of Allah from his ignorance. Tell me any Jewish tribe from the Tribe of Quraish or living close to Mecca or in Mecca or in Ta'if, Or tell me of any encounter with the messenger of Allah S.A.W with any Jew before his migration to Medina.

Most stories in the Quran are Jewish mythical stories and rip-off of other ancient mythology, you can't take that fact away.

And you said you know about your religion, during the pre-islamic era the Jews and some other traders in other nations lived with the arabs, go read your religion history.

Their cultures and beliefs were known by the arabs, you can't tell me Muhammad never heard of their beliefs and mythologies.

This shows how stupid you are comparing a book of guidance with that of entertainment. Sue the writers of the Qur'an and you will still come out disgraced.

Lol, Your holy book is more like a bed time story for kids.

You have been brainwashed to the highest degree, it takes prayers and fasting for Allah to unbrainwash you.

tintingz:
ignorance

how

tintingz:
You mistake my post with true2god.

And I can see how frustrated you're.

Actually they have their evidence, they won't be making such statement without their subjective evidence.


- Muhammad was said to be a business man, you can't tell me such person is completely an illiterate.

- Are you also saying Muhammad was not able to confirm what was revealed to him?

- There was a time Muhammad requested for pen and paper, please to do what?

So you completely trust those that assembled the Quran?

Humans are not perfect, you don't put complete trust on humans.

According to Muslims the previous scriptures were tampered, if Allah cannot protect his previous books I don't understand how the Quran can't be tampered and besides I don't see the purpose of the imaginary protection of the Quran when there are already diversity in the Muslim ummah.

Most stories in the Quran are Jewish mythical stories and rip-off of other ancient mythology, you can't take that fact away.

And you said you know about your religion, during the pre-islamic era the Jews and some other traders in other nations lived with the arabs, go read your religion history.

Their cultures and beliefs were known by the arabs, you can't tell me Muhammad never heard of their beliefs and mythologies.

Lol, Your holy book is more like a bed time story for kids.

You have been brainwashed to the highest degree, it takes prayers and fasting for Allah to unbrainwashed you.

It is obvious that Apostates are ignorant fools. This is all I will say to you because you do not deserve any clarity. Provide the evidence for your claims you cannot. You can only be tricky in the matter of science but I swear by Allah the creed of Islam will disgrace a ignorant attacker.

najib632:
It is obvious that Apostates are ignorant fools. This is all I will say to you because you do not deserve any clarity. Provide the evidence for your claims you cannot. You can only be tricky in the matter of science but I swear by Allah the creed of Islam will disgrace a ignorant attacker.

Lol.

Take it easy my brother.

Empiree:
how

There's no Atlantic and Pacific ocean meeting.

That's Gulf of Alaska an arm of Pacific ocean.

tintingz:
There's no Atlantic and Pacific ocean meeting.

That's Gulf of Alaska an arm of Pacific ocean.

take your argument to the CHRISTIAN who posted it on FB. Main concern here is 2 OCEANS MEET but do not MIX

Empiree:
take your argument to the CHRISTIAN who posted it on FB. Main concern here is 2 OCEANS MEET but do not MIX

Again not two oceans.

One is a glaciers water(a melt ice water) and sediments from the Pacific shores where there are ice and mountains while the other water is the gulf of Alaska, the glaciers water traveled down to the offshore but due to the density (thickness) of the glaciers water it does mix instantly with the ocean but they will eventually mix with time.

The believe that two oceans don't mix because of an imaginary barrier is false and a myth.

tintingz:
Again not two oceans.

One is a glaciers water(a melt ice water) and sediments from the Pacific shores where there are ice and mountains while the other water is the gulf of Alaska, the glaciers water traveled down to the offshore but due to the density (thickness) of the glaciers water it does mix instantly with the ocean but
The believe that two oceans don't mix because of an imaginary barrier is false and a myth.

if you think I'm here to argue with you over obvious, glaring evidence, you are in your own.

they will eventually mix with time.

when?. In another 50 million years?. You have idea how long it was there and never mixed?. Keep waiting until that happens

Empiree:
if you think I'm here to argue with you over obvious, glaring evidence, you are in your own.

Ignorance is a bliss.

when?. In another 50 million years?. You have idea how long it was there and never mixed?. Keep waiting until that happens

The glaciers water dissolves/deform gradually with the ocean.

It's like when you put a huge amount of snow in a pool of water, it will take some time to dissolve and mix with the water.

Glacier
a slowly moving mass or river of ice formed by the accumulation and compaction of snow on mountains or near the poles.

tintingz:
Ignorance is a bliss.

The glaciers water dissolves/deform gradually with the ocean.

It's like when you put a huge amount of snow in a pool of water, it will take some time to dissolve and mix with the water.

Glacier
a slowly moving mass or river of ice formed by the accumulation and compaction of snow on mountains or near the poles.

Give whatever theories you want. The two oceans will not mix as Quran rightly said. Let us know when they mix to prove Quran wrong. Right now Quran is right.

Empiree:
Give whatever theories you want. The two oceans will not mix as Quran rightly said. Let us know when they mix to prove Quran wrong. Right now Quran is right.

This is serious delusion.

My goodness. They mix in hours time, days, months.

tintingz:


This is serious delusion.

back to sender

v v v

They mix in hours time, days, months.

true2god:
You need open your critical reasoning mind. The Jews and were living in Mecca and Medina before Mohammed was born and the people there were familiar with the contents of their scriptures, either written or oral transmission. I am not a Muslim but I am familiar with some basic Islamic beliefs, and I want to believe that Mohammed was equally familiar with the basic christian beliefs (quran 9:28,30). If what Mohammed preached was similar to Jewish and Christians beliefs, it is logical to assume that his thought and beliefs was shaped by what was being preached and practiced within his immediate environment. Mohammed did not teach anything related to Chinese or Japanese culture. This shouldn't be too hard to understand.

You think you're so smart eh? Well this is the wrong Muslim to try that with, you must provide your proof from the Qur'an or Hadith or seerah that there were Jews and Christians practising in Mecca, you must cite this. You don't even know what you're challenging. Provide an evidence from the Seerah of ibn ishaq. Then we can proceed to assumptions, small boy, you think becoming a scholar is easy.

true2god:

I am not stupid, you only need to open your mind to divergent view. When Mohammed was alive there nothing like the quran as we have it today. Mohammed will be shocked if he rises from the dead and see what you call the quran today. The present-day quran is the project of the khalifa and was sanctioned and approved by Uthman Ibn Affan, a government project. This is one of the reasons the quran does not make any sense without the seerah or the hadith. The Khalifa did a bad job of what they were not sent to do by Mohammed.

Hahahahaha, you're a very funny person, scholar who doesn't know that prophet Muhammad S.A.W had a secretary named Zaid bin Thabit R.A. who the messenger of Allah S.A.W used to ask to record the Qur'an when ever there was a new revelation. No one knew the secrets of the messenger of Allah S.A.W like this man, this was a man that the messenger of Allah S.A.W told everything including all the names of the hypocrites in Medina. This was a man that who Said Ibn Al-Musayyib stated: "I attended the funeral of Zaid bin Thabit. After he had been buried, ibn Abbas said, 'O you people! Whoever wishes to know how knowledge leaves us should know that it is like this that knowledge leaves. I swear by Allah that a great deal of knowledge has just left us today."
He was the person who Abubakar, Umar and Uthman R.A. assigned to oversee the writing of the Qur'an, although they were all memorizers of the Qur'an, Abubakar R.A even had a copy of the Qur'an that was written in the Quraish dialect, Zaid ibn Thabit R.A. collected his copy too although he was a memorizer of the Qur'an in all the seven dialects. You come here to insult the successors of the messenger of Allah S.A.W without even knowing the virtue of these men, if they were wrong the Ahlul bayt or atleast Ali R.A. would have reacted, but he didn't even when his copy of the Qur'an was rejected and Alhamdulillah it was rejected, because it was later foundout to have contained a fabricated narration in his tafsir that originated from the Jews. Even though they didn't read it; what they were afraid of was prevented. Find other people to ridicule but not these men, I swear by Allah if you will gather everyone on the surface of the earth they never be as good as Abubakar, Umar, Uthman and Ali R.A.

true2god:

All the evident you need are in your source documents. A hadith narration confirmed that mohammed assumed the sun set in a muddy spring. How did he know that if he never saw any body of waters? You asked Allah to disgrace me? You will grow old and nothing Allah will do to me.

lack of intelligence and wisdom is what you reek of, He was talking about the far East and West. Anybody that says he meant any other thing else is not a reasonable person. Only Allah knows wether I will grow old, and I swear by Allah if you don't repent you will be condemned. Foolish men every where now a days, even though time is running fast they forget they'll die, idiots.

true2god:
So what's the basis for our argument if you now agree that, even if bodies of water meeting was written in the Bible, Allah also revealed it. Is the Torah, the injil and sabura no longer corrupt? It is you Muslims that are celebrating that it was recorded in the Quran, not in the Bible, that ocean meet but never mix, but when some facts are presented to you the language is gradually changing.

I expected you to maintain the narrative that it was only recorded in the Quran hence authenticating the divine nature of the Quran. Even the Christians, whose scripture has a similar narrative, never made any claim that the phenomenon is divine and never name a big deal out of it. Muslims should find more miracle in the Quran and not this please.

Ocean meeting and never mixing is never a miracle in this scientific world but can be a miracle to some illiterate and medieval Arab men.

The Qur'an knew about this phenomenon 1400 years ago and clearly calls it a barrier, and that barrier is the difference in density. Knew age idiots claiming that they know everything when they haven't even finished exploring the earth they're exploring the universe.

najib632:
The Qur'an knew about this phenomenon 1400 years ago and clearly calls it a barrier, and that barrier is the difference in density. Knew age idiots claiming that they know everything when they haven't even finished exploring the earth they're exploring the universe.

A density concerning the gulf of Alaska is not a barrier!

Empiree:
back to sender

v v v

Sigh.

Empiree:
Give whatever theories you want. The two oceans will not mix as Quran rightly said. Let us know when they mix to prove Quran wrong. Right now Quran is right.

These people that challenge the Qur'an are just a bunch of ignorant and arrogant people. They do not ask the scholars of Islam because they know their questions will be clarified, but they are attack the ignorant ones that don't even know the basics of Islam and try to misguide them, may Allah protect us. This really shows the significance of knowledge in Islam and why the messenger of Allah S.A.W emphasised on it so much.

najib632:
These people that challenge the Qur'an are just a bunch of ignorant and arrogant people. They do not ask the scholars of Islam because they know their questions will be clarified, but they are attack the ignorant ones that don't even know the basics of Islam and try to misguide them, may Allah protect us. This really shows the significance of knowledge in Islam and why the messenger of Allah S.A.W emphasised on it so much.

they aren't here for the truth

najib632:
These people that challenge the Qur'an are just a bunch of ignorant and arrogant people. They do not ask the scholars of Islam because they know their questions will be clarified, but they are attack the ignorant ones that don't even know the basics of Islam and try to misguide them, may Allah protect us. This really shows the significance of knowledge in Islam and why the messenger of Allah S.A.W emphasised on it so much.

What a Delusion.

Despite the explanations of the phenomena you still think the explanation is of ignorance and arrogance. What an irony.

My goodness.

tintingz:
What a Delusion.

Despite the explanations of the phenomena you still think the explanation is of ignorance and arrogance. What an irony.

My goodness.

Which stupid explanation? How do you fail to see a clear example that Allah is telling us that he made water varying in density not mix? How do you expect Bedouins to understand what's density? Qur'an is a book that transcends time and space, if you fail to use the eye of insight you'll remain a disbeliever.

najib632:
You think you're so smart eh? Well this is the wrong Muslim to try that with, you must provide your proof from the Qur'an or Hadith or seerah that there were Jews and Christians practising in Mecca, you must cite this. You don't even know what you're challenging. Provide an evidence from the Seerah of ibn ishaq. Then we can proceed to assumptions, small boy, you think becoming a scholar is easy.

You seem very ignorant of your religion. The Jewish tribe of Banu Qurayza and Banu Nadir were in mecca long before Islam. The Jewish people of Khaibar was also in saudi arabia long before Islam.

najib632:
Hahahahaha, you're a very funny person, scholar who doesn't know that prophet Muhammad S.A.W had a secretary named Zaid bin Thabit R.A. who the messenger of Allah S.A.W used to ask to record the Qur'an when ever there was a new revelation. No one knew the secrets of the messenger of Allah S.A.W like this man, this was a man that the messenger of Allah S.A.W told everything including all the names of the hypocrites in Medina. This was a man that who Said Ibn Al-Musayyib stated: "I attended the funeral of Zaid bin Thabit. After he had been buried, ibn Abbas said, 'O you people! Whoever wishes to know how knowledge leaves us should know that it is like this that knowledge leaves. I swear by Allah that a great deal of knowledge has just left us today."
He was the person who Abubakar, Umar and Uthman R.A. assigned to oversee the writing of the Qur'an, although they were all memorizers of the Qur'an, Abubakar R.A even had a copy of the Qur'an that was written in the Quraish dialect, Zaid ibn Thabit R.A. collected his copy too although he was a memorizer of the Qur'an in all the seven dialects. You come here to insult the successors of the messenger of Allah S.A.W without even knowing the virtue of these men, if they were wrong the Ahlul bayt or atleast Ali R.A. would have reacted, but he didn't even when his copy of the Qur'an was rejected and Alhamdulillah it was rejected, because it was later foundout to have contained a fabricated narration in his tafsir that originated from the Jews. Even though they didn't read it; what they were afraid of was prevented. Find other people to ridicule but not these men, I swear by Allah if you will gather everyone on the surface of the earth they never be as good as Abubakar, Umar, Uthman and Ali R.A.

Zaib Ibn Thabit is not the only secretary Mohammed had. One of Mohammed's secretary was Abdulah Ibn Sa'd Ibn Abi Saar. He was a foster brother to Uthman Ibn Affan and apostacised when he discoverred that mohammed was making up the quran and was never from any angel (Ibn Ishaq page 550, Sunnah Abu Dawood 14:2677, 38:4345-6). You also made a claim below:

I swear by Allah if you will gather everyone on the surface of the earth they never be as good as Abubakar, Umar, Uthman and Ali R.A: This is very bold claim and filled with lies. FYA, Abu Bakr (and his daughter Aisha) was an enemy of Fatimah (the only surviving child of Mohammed). Abu Bakr buried Mohammed without the consent and knowledge of either Fatima or her husband Ali. It was also recorded that Aisha died prematurely as a result of the evil meted out to her by the Khalifa you listed above. If these men are your standard then Islam has no honorable men as role model.

najib632:
lack of intelligence and wisdom is what you reek of, He was talking about the far East and West. Anybody that says he meant any other thing else is not a reasonable person. Only Allah knows wether I will grow old, and I swear by Allah if you don't repent you will be condemned. Foolish men every where now a days, even though time is running fast they forget they'll die, idiots.

As a said earlier, you will grow old and Allah will do nothing to me because he never even existed in the first place except in the wrap imagination of Mohammed only. Tell me, has Allah spoken to any Muslim before? Has he spoken to you either by dreams or vision?

najib632:
The Qur'an knew about this phenomenon 1400 years ago and clearly calls it a barrier, and that barrier is the difference in density. Knew age idiots claiming that they know everything when they haven't even finished exploring the earth they're exploring the universe.

You made a claim that nowhere was it recorded that there was a 'barrier' between see till Allah revealed it to Mohammed about 1400 years ago. 'Tintinz' provided a passage from the Bible where similar event was recorded long before Mohammed/Islam, why are you guys now shifting the goal post? The truth is that Mohammed was not deaf and dump when he was alive; he definitely heard the story from people around him before concocting it into his quran. You are one of the lazy students that still believe that Mungo Park discoered River Niger. I am very sure that, to you, Mungo Park, is also a prophet.

najib632:
Which stupid explanation? How do you fail to see a clear example that Allah is telling us that he made water varying in density not mix? How do you expect Bedouins to understand what's density?

Quran made three false claims.

- That there are two oceans meeting.

- That the oceans have a barrier.

- That the oceans don't mix.

Qur'an is a book that transcends time and space, if you fail to use the eye of insight you'll remain a disbeliever.

Lmao, what a ridiculous statement.

Do you know what it means to transcend time and space?

You are always making absurd statement day by day.

tintingz:
Here is what Halocline is.

In oceanography, a halocline (from Greek hals, halo- 'salt' and klinein 'to slope') is a subtype of chemocline caused by a strong, vertical salinity gradient within a body of water. Because salinity (in concert with temperature) affects the density of seawater, it can play a role in its vertical stratification. Increasing salinity by one kg/m3 results in an increase of seawater density of around 0.7 kg/m3.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halocline

So what is up?

From the shore of the environ where the Ocean is which is the Pacific, there are mountains, ice etc the ice form glaciers which is like a melting ice popping out huge amount of glaciers water and sediments that travelled to the offshore of the ocean but due to the density(thickness) of the glaciers water it doesn't mix instantly with the ocean given that line which is the Halocline, but they will eventually mix with time.

This is like my third time of explaining this phenomena, there is no barrier and it's not miraculous!

What's up about is an illiterate man that has never seen where two rivers meet talking about it

najib632:
What's up about is an illiterate man that has never seen where two rivers meet talking about it

You guys always celebrating Mohammed's alledge illiteracy with pride. It is only in Islam that Mohammed's illiteracy is a thing of joy instead of being a grave concern. For the sake of argument, even if Mohammed was an illiterate man, he could still see, speak and hear. He surely heard this from a secondary source and no any god reveal any stuff to him.

And Fya, many of his sahabas were equally illiterate yet they committed many part of the quran to memory. There is a big difference between being an illiterate and being dumb. A man can be an illiterate but yet smart and intelligent while some can be lettered but cannot think critically.