budaatum:

Blood, I do agree with you, somewhat. Jesus is so benevolent with his love, and not for what we do but simply because we are human. After all, scripture clearly states that "for God so loved the world". I, myself, would not trust that God does not extend that benevolence to goats and sheep too who do no work, after all we've all heard of the birds and the bees that work not. But can I be of Christ and claim "I am justified"? Or should I even justify others? Who made me God, blood? But even after accepting that love of Christ and the power therein, would that love and power not manifest in me and produce much fruit so that God in heaven be glorified?

I believe faith without works that produce fruits is like salt that has lost its saltiness. Christ did give two commands, love God, which is work, and love one another, which is even more work considering how nasty neighbours can be at times. And no, I am not suggesting one is justified by ones work, but that work still needs to be done, unless one thinks singing aleluya is all God requires. I am a Jamesiam I guess, so my faith (the Power of Christ in me) manifests in what I do which is my works, my conduct and my behaviour. Though that's no reason to go about claiming I have done work so therefore I am justified or righteous! As I've said here, claiming righteousness is arrogance. The Pharisee tried it and Christ's retort is clear, “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.” However worshipping God is itself work, especially when one considers worshipping God to mean the love one must have for one's neighbour. Or do you not see how much work one must have done in order to be able to turn the other cheek? And is not written that in as much as ye have worshipped the least of these the God in heaven is [url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+5%3A16&version=KJV]worshipped⁴⁵[/url]? And yet, they are not for righteousness, which I must be careful not to practice in front of others to be seen by them, or I will have no reward from the Father in heaven".

Though some claim works are irrelevant, I do not believe they believe they should therefore do no work (it is here that I agree with you, bloodofthelamb), and scripture is clear on this fact! I bet we all work, even if its preaching the gospel. As for being righteous though, I leave that to God to decide.

Buda, now, we are on the same page speaking one language. Those who derives joy and satisfaction in sin have neither seen him nor know him. Grace is no license to im morality. Genue faith in Christ will definitely produce a changed heart which will result in change of attitude and conduct that brings glory to God.

You are a liar, if you say you know him and still practice lawlessness continuously. When Christ becomes your Vine, your fruit (love, Joy, patience, kindness, etc) will be good.

By this UNDESERVED KINDNESS, indeed, you have been SAVED through FAITH; and this is not OWING to you, it is GOD’S GIFT. No, it is not OWING to WORKS, in order that no man should have ground for BOASTING.—Ephesians 2:8, 9.

A CHRISTIAN’S not being under LAW does not, certainly should not, make him LAWLESS. Because of being under God’s GRACE his FREEDOM from SUBJECTION to LAW should result, not in a LACK of RIGHTEOUSNESS, but in a SUPERIOR RIGHTEOUSNESS, a RIGHTEOUSNESS from God, BASED on FAITH, LOVE and TRUTH, rather than on OBEDIENCE to a RELIGIOUS CODE. In the same way, his BEING saved on the BASIS of FAITH rather than WORKS should RESULT, not in INACTIVITY, PASSIVITY or APATHY, but in SUPERIOR activity, flowing from those SAME FACTORS(FAITH LOVE and TRUTH).

John 6:28,29 So they said to him: “What MUST WE do to carry out the WORKS of GOD?” 29 In answer Jesus said to them: “This is the WORK of GOD, that you EXERCISE FAITH in the one WHOM he SENT.”

budaatum:

The evidence for this is replete on here. Many claim they believe, but their actions are contrary to what they claim to believe. And that is precisely why I am against "believe", after all even demons believe, so how could it be a virtue, especially when there are many verses that state that God prefers undemonic behaviour?

I wholly agree with with you on this. Our actions exposes what we truly believe. Jesus says, "out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks and should l also add that we also act out of the abundance of our heart."

For example, you can't believe that vengeance is the Lord's, yet you are going to avenge yourself at the same time. By you going to avenge yourself simply portrays that you don't believe in the truth that vengeance is for the Lord.

bloodofthelamb:


I wholly agree with with you on this. Our actions exposes what we truly believe. Jesus says, "out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks and should l also add that we also act out of the abundance of our heart."

For example, you can't believe that vengeance is the Lord's, yet you are going to avenge yourself at the same time. By you going to avenge yourself simply portrays that you don't believe in the truth that vengeance is for the Lord.

A thief will never believe he is but observers will notice and conclude 'he is a thief' so if you ask the onlooker he/she will say with conviction 'that person is a thief' with proof and explanation. You can use the same logic for those claiming believe!

budaatum:
Solite3, this is an example of a 'believer' who is 'righteous', and by his works.

how was he righteous by his work?

My position is that the righteous do not claim righteousness because righteousness is like an honour that only God bestows on one and bestowing it on oneself is very unrighteous indeed. It's called hubris, and it leads to nemesis, and it is the lesson clearly taught in the [url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+18%3A9-14&version=KJV]Parable of the tax collector[/url].

@bold honor base on what? do you expect a theif to be honored however the good works he perform? God is righteous he cannot honor sin, Anyone who has sinned shall pay the wages which is death, good deeds does not cancel it.

no one can declare himself righteous because all are guilty.
righteousness is a free gift given to all who put their faith in Jesus.
Jesus took the penalty of sin so that whoever will trust in him shall be free but whoever does not believe on Jesus is already condemn.


so on account of what Jesus had done on the cross Christians are declared righteous.

I solite3 I am the very righteousness of God.

Maximus69:
A thief will never believe he is but observers will notice and conclude 'he is a thief' so if you ask the onlooker he/she will say with conviction 'that person is a thief' with proof and explanation. You can use the same logic for those claiming believe!

who told you a theif doesn't know he is one? the conscience is there to convict people of their sins.

because all have sinned God everyone is unrighteous but however this unrighteousness manifest in divers ways.
the fact you are not committing the type of sin others are commiting does not make you better than them.

solite3:
who told you a theif doesn't know he is one? the conscience is there to convict people of their sins.

because all have sinned God everyone is unrighteous but however this unrighteousness manifest in divers ways.
the fact you are not committing the type of sin others are commiting does not make you better than them.

Stealing is in various ways Sir but after a careful investigations a shrewd observer would say 'with the evidence on ground this person is surely a thief' but even the offender might find it difficult to admit he's guilty! We all have conscience,some their conscience is dead,some theirs is inactive while some have trained their conscience with God's word.
So don't conclude that it's everybody that fully understands the gravity of their blunders!

Maximus69:
Stealing is in various ways Sir but after a careful investigations a shrewd observer would say 'with the evidence on ground this person is surely a thief' but even the offender might find it difficult to admit he's guilty! We all have conscience,some their conscience is dead,some theirs is inactive while some have trained their conscience with God's word.
So don't conclude that it's everybody that fully understands the gravity of their blunders!

people usually do not admit they are thieves because they want to cover it up and avoid the punishment if not why do you think a theif always try to do it secretly. Even for those who have dead conscience, they still know.

solite3:


I solite3 I am the very righteousness of God.

I get you, righteous solite3. I will pray.

solite3:
people usually do not admit they are thieves because they want to cover it up and avoid the punishment if not why do you think a theif always try to do it secretly. Even for those who have dead conscience, they still know.

NO! Sir, that is another weapon Satan is using to deceive people!
STEALING is in so many ways but if your conscience is not trained you can't discern it on your own!
¤Sleeping with a woman to whom you're not married is one example! A young boy and girl could be sleeping together as DATING, and nobody dares disturb them even when noticed!
Adam paid dowry to God with his bone and so all men or women must do something to show everyone that they're getting married as in HOOKED to a soulmate as a sign of commitment. When unmarried people sleeps together, they're STEALING what belongs to another man or woman!
Please Sir STEALING is in so many ways, not only when someone hides it alone. There are many tricks Satan has inculcated in the hearts of men to make them STEAL without feeling any guilt!

Maximus69:
NO! Sir, that is another weapon Satan is using to deceive people!
STEALING is in so many ways but if your conscience is not trained you can't discern it on your own!
¤Sleeping with a woman to whom you're not married is one example! A young boy and girl could be sleeping together as DATING, and nobody dares disturb them even when noticed!
Adam paid dowry to God with his bone and so all men or women must do something to show everyone that they're getting married as in HOOKED to a soulmate as a sign of commitment. When unmarried people sleeps together, they're STEALING what belongs to another man or woman!
Please Sir STEALING is in so many ways, not only when someone hides it alone. There are many tricks Satan has inculcated in the hearts of men to make them STEAL without feeling any guilt!

Adam didnt pay dowry. Payment of dowry is just a social construct.

People are already under the bondage of sin but sin is known in two ways the written law or through conscience.
Conscience can be deaden that its why there is the written law.

Shepherd00:

Lolzzzzz.

Let's see more of it then.
Romans 2:10-17
But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
Mark the Worketh good in this verse.

For there is no respect of persons with God.
For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
It doesn't matter who does what God commands, Jews or Gentles.

(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
Then it comes to my point. For even if it's the Gentles who keeps to the law, if they do what it says, they are justified.

For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Have you seen what this verse says. It's about doing what is written to stand right with God.

Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another
Which shows the WORKS OF THE LAW? wow. I most have written that by myself.

[bIn the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
[/b]

The day the Lord Jesus shall judge the Earth, it is those who did what he commanded that will stand Justified.

the works of the law is fulfilled in those that work by faith.
It is those fulfill the whole law that will be justified pls note that you have to do the whole law without breaking anyone to be justified by it. For immediately you break one law you are disqualified already hence it is not possible to be justified by the works of the law.
Justification only comes by faith in christ Jesus but the law is fulfilled in those who walk by faith not those who walk by the law.
The result of the grace of God through Jesus Christ upon the believer is goodness which result in good works, holiness and righteous living and the end eternal life.

solite3:
Adam didnt pay dowry. Payment of dowry is just a social construct.

People are already under the bondage of sin but sin is known in two ways the written law or through conscience.
Conscience can be deaden that its why there is the written law.

Haaaa!
I do not agree with you on the first statement Sir.
People today are paying dowry from their sweat but Adam paid Eve's dowry WITH ONE OF HIS RIBS! Genesis 2:21-24
Apart from this, you've spoken my mind!

bloodofthelamb:


I wholly agree with with you on this. Our actions exposes what we truly believe. Jesus says, "out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks and should l also add that we also act out of the abundance of our heart."

For example, you can't believe that vengeance is the Lord's, yet you are going to avenge yourself at the same time. By you going to avenge yourself simply portrays that you don't believe in the truth that vengeance is for the Lord.

You will never tire.

Maximus69:
Haaaa!
I do not agree with you on the first statement Sir.
People today are paying dowry from their sweat but Adam paid Eve's dowry WITH ONE OF HIS RIBS! Genesis 2:21-24
Apart from this, you've spoken my mind!

to whom did Adam pay bride price to?

solite3:
to whom did Adam pay bride price to?

To the one who gave him a WIFE!
Take note that during wedding day, a man will hold his daughter's hand and hand her over to another man as a wife! {Genesis 2:18-22}
In the same way, God presented Eve to Adam as a wife and Adam fell in love with what he saw that day! Genesis 2:23
So Adam himself knew very well that God COLLECTED something from him before presenting his daughter to Adam which is Adam's rib!