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"How Wind Could Have Parted Red Sea" by Enigma(m): 9:48am On Sep 22, 2010
New computer simulations have shown how the parting of the Red Sea, as described in the Bible, could have been a phenomenon caused by strong winds.

The account in the Book of Exodus describes how the waters of the sea parted, allowing the Israelites to flee their Egyptian pursuers.

Simulations by US scientists show how the movement of wind could have opened up a land bridge at one location.

This would have enabled people to walk across exposed mud flats to safety.

The results are published in the open-access journal Plos One.

The researchers show that a strong east wind, blowing overnight, could have pushed water back at a bend where an ancient river is believed to have merged with a coastal lagoon.

From  http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-11383620
Re: "How Wind Could Have Parted Red Sea" by Jenwitemi(m): 9:57am On Sep 22, 2010
And so?
Re: "How Wind Could Have Parted Red Sea" by Enigma(m): 10:55am On Sep 22, 2010
grin works everytime
Re: "How Wind Could Have Parted Red Sea" by InesQor(m): 1:08pm On Sep 22, 2010
Wow! Thanks for the link, Enigma smiley

Let the reader understand
Re: "How Wind Could Have Parted Red Sea" by Nobody: 1:27pm On Sep 22, 2010
Jenwitemi:

And so?
grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin
Re: "How Wind Could Have Parted Red Sea" by DGIPLUS(m): 11:29pm On Sep 22, 2010
@Poster & co,

Who controls the wind?

How come the wind parted the sea just b4 pharaoh could catch up with the Israelites?

Think!
Re: "How Wind Could Have Parted Red Sea" by InesQor(m): 3:08am On Sep 23, 2010
@DGI-PLUS: "OP and co" are Believers in God and His Word, the Bible. Maybe you can explain to Jenwitemi from post #2.
Re: "How Wind Could Have Parted Red Sea" by aletheia(m): 4:25am On Sep 23, 2010
Jenwitemi:

And so?
^You won't understand.
Re: "How Wind Could Have Parted Red Sea" by nuclearboy(m): 6:36am On Sep 23, 2010
Interesting that scientists NOW accept the plagues of Egypt took place. They also accept the exodus. They also accept there was a flood which could have been the Biblical flood though they insist it was regional. Now this. Based on the desire to deny, what they do is try to find other reasons to ascribe for these phenomena - nature, volcanoes, earthquake etc. And why not? - accepting they were wrong will bring into focus the fact that most postulations MAY be wrong.

When it comes to their own theories of evolution, its supposition after supposition. There are as many dating techniques as there are scientists and 5 experts will offer 5 ages for any "fossil". But all of these mean not much. What matters and truly encapsules the truth is succintly exposed above - "And so?"

Whether it is true or not doesn't matter then. What matters is its to advantage to deny it or belittle it!
Re: "How Wind Could Have Parted Red Sea" by Gamine(f): 11:46am On Sep 23, 2010
Aleast them realize say the Sea part sha. LOL
Re: "How Wind Could Have Parted Red Sea" by omofat: 2:58pm On Sep 23, 2010
DGI-PLUS:

@Poster & co,

Who controls the wind?

How come the wind parted the sea just b4 pharaoh could catch up with the Israelites?

Think!

That's why it's a miracle duh
Re: "How Wind Could Have Parted Red Sea" by mazaje(m): 7:57pm On Sep 23, 2010
nuclearboy:

Interesting that scientists NOW accept the plagues of Egypt took place.[size=15pt] They also accept the exodus[/size]. They also accept there was a flood which could have been the Biblical flood though they insist it was regional. Now this. Based on the desire to deny, what they do is try to find other reasons to ascribe for these phenomena - nature, volcanoes, earthquake etc. And why not? - accepting they were wrong will bring into focus the fact that most postulations MAY be wrong.

When it comes to their own theories of evolution, its supposition after supposition. There are as many dating techniques as there are scientists and 5 experts will offer 5 ages for any "fossil". But all of these mean not much. What matters and truly encapsules the truth is succintly exposed above - "And so?"

Whether it is true or not doesn't matter then. What matters is its to advantage to deny it or belittle it!

I am waiting for the scientific findings that support the biblical exodus narrative or the biblical global flood narrative. . . . . .There's no evidence, for for the Exodus. There's no evidence that Jews were wandering around the area between Egypt and Palestine for 40 years. No evidence that massive amounts of Canaanites were displaced by an invading force at the time period that the Joshua narratives describe. There's no evidence that David (if he even existed) commanded a kingdom that spanned from Egypt to Turkey. There's not even any evidence that the two kingdoms were even one.

Even if the Exodus did happen, Egypt controlled the area that the Jews supposedly fled to. So the story is nonsense on its face.
Re: "How Wind Could Have Parted Red Sea" by naijacutee(f): 8:53pm On Sep 23, 2010
mazaje:

I am waiting for the scientific findings that support the biblical exodus narrative or the biblical global flood narrative. . . . . .There's no evidence, for for the Exodus. There's no evidence that Jews were wandering around the area between Egypt and Palestine for 40 years. No evidence that massive amounts of Canaanites were displaced by an invading force at the time period that the Joshua narratives describe. There's no evidence that David (if he even existed) commanded a kingdom that spanned from Egypt to Turkey. There's not even any evidence that the two kingdoms were even one.

Even if the Exodus did happen, Egypt controlled the area that the Jews supposedly fled to. So the story is nonsense on its face.

You're lagging behind, bros. There are whole books of evidence devoted to these topics, and we are now at the stage where the scientists agree. Let me help you here

1. Biblical Exodus Narrative


mazaje:

There's no evidence, for for the Exodus.

Evidence

http://www.amazon.com/Israel-Egypt-Evidence-Authenticity-Tradition/dp/019513088X
http://www.arkdiscovery.com/red_sea_crossing.htm

The second site contains pictures of exploration of the sea bed where they found thousands of chariot remains, human bones and horse skeletons! No carry last o, bros. Google is your friend.
Re: "How Wind Could Have Parted Red Sea" by nuclearboy(m): 10:18pm On Sep 23, 2010
Given a finding from the past, scientists are prone to "date" such to the maximum possible - casting doubt on the Bible. sad
Given information concerning events, the tendency is to say "no evidence exists" and thus fault claims. When such evidence surfaces, the choice is usually to ignore it and where impossible, to ascribe other causal factors - same idea - cast doubt sad
Given incontrovertible evidence, science says we're still learning more and its likely a power in the human that we haven't tapped or understood sad

Who's fooling who?

Most have made up their minds. Facts and truth mean nothing! Thats why assertions like the above come into existence - I choose not to believe and so refuse to accept truth no matter what!
Re: "How Wind Could Have Parted Red Sea" by InesQor(m): 10:35pm On Sep 23, 2010
grin LOL Mazaje are you eating footpie now?
Re: "How Wind Could Have Parted Red Sea" by mazaje(m): 11:18pm On Sep 23, 2010
naijacutee:

You're lagging behind, bros. There are whole books of evidence devoted to these topics, and we are now at the stage where the scientists agree. Let me help you here

1. Biblical Exodus Narrative


Evidence

http://www.amazon.com/Israel-Egypt-Evidence-Authenticity-Tradition/dp/019513088X
http://www.arkdiscovery.com/red_sea_crossing.htm

Is this what you call scientific evidence? A book written by a Christian fundamentalist? This is the same as you showing me a book written by an Islamic loony who claims to have evidence on how Prophet Mohammed divided the moon into two. . . . .I asked for scientific evidence that supports the biblical exodus narrative, up till date there is NO such evidence at all. . . . . A hundred years of archeological finding by professional archeologist has failed to provide any evidence to back up the biblical story. . . . .What am I to do with the second link of armature Christian archeologist who are finding things as far away as Saudi Arabia?. . . . . .That site is completely bogus because if you look at the site they claim to also have found the ark of covenant, something that the bible itself claims is no longer on earth, so how then are they discovering the ark of covenant?. . . . . .That site is just a waste of time. . . . . .They claimed to have found Noah ark and the ark of covenant amongst other things. . . .

The second site contains pictures of exploration of the sea bed where they found thousands of chariot remains, human bones and horse skeletons! No carry last o, bros. Google is your friend.

Again that site is a waste of time, as i aforementioned I am more interested in peer reviewed  scientific findings. . . .

Rabbi David Wolpe of Sinai Temple has been on record since 2001 as disputing the Exodus story.

" . . .The reason that modern scholars dispute the historicity of the Exodus  doesn’t have anything to do with the first two parts of the story [slavery in Egypt, the journey through the desert]; it has to do with the third part [when they arrive in the land].

“If, in fact, hundreds of thousands of Jews left Egypt, then you should be able to see new settlement patterns in Israel — [size=15pt]and archaeologists have excavated Israel, and they don’t see a change in the building structure, in the pottery, all the things you think would change if there was a huge immigrant influx[/size],” Wolpe said.

I find it impossible to believe that 10 plagues happened ,  and all the first born were murdered by God. . . . . .and the Red Sea parted and yet the only record of this is in the bible.  And people lived out on the sand eating starch that fell out of the sky. It's a folk tale, probably embellished over long years of retelling.


Of prior concern here should be the date of the sources in Exodus  1- 14 judged empirically on the basis of datable details. The latter, it must be admitted, are few and most are of a toponymic nature. Research on these place-names, however, has proceeded far beyond the stage of Cazelle's classic article of thirty-five years ago; and we can now genuinely speak of a unanimity of the evidence. Whoever supplied the geographical information that now adorns the story had no information earlier than the Saite period (seventh to sixth centuries B.C.). The eastern Delta and Sinai he describes are those of the 26th Dynasty kings and the early Persian overlords: his toponyms reflect the renewed interest in the eastern frontier evidenced for this period by fort building and canalization. He knows of "Goshen" of the Qedarite Arabs, and a legendary "Land of Ramesses." He cannot locate the Egyptian court to anything but the largest and most famous city in his own day in the northeastern Delta, namely Tanis, the royal residence from about 1070 to 725 B.C. (cf. Psalm 78:12, 43), which survives as a metropolis into Roman times; and he mistakenly presses into service the adjacent marshy tract "the reed-(lake)" as the "Reed-sea," the scene of Israel's miraculous passage to safety. The route he is familiar with is that which traverses the same tract as the canal of Necho II (610-594 B.C.) from Bubastis to the Bitter Lakes; then he moves north in his mind's eye past the famous fort at Migdol to Lake Sirbonis (Ba'al Saphon) where Horus had already in the mythical past thrown Seth out of Egypt. In short, with respect to the geography of the Exodus, the post-Exilic compiler of the present Biblical version had no genuinely ancient details. He felt constrained to supply them from the Egypt of his own day and, significantly perhaps, cited several places where Asiatic elements and especially Judaean mercenaries resided in the sixth and fifth centuries.

--Donald Redford


http://www.mailstar.net/archaeology-bible.html


Re: "How Wind Could Have Parted Red Sea" by mazaje(m): 11:26pm On Sep 23, 2010
The premise proposed in 'The Bible Unearthed' by Finkelstein and Silberman who are professional archeologist seems profoundly sensible.

In a nutshell:

There never was a real exodus as described, and that the Israelites were really just another Canaanite tribe. No copies of these accounts appear till the 7th century BCE when king Josiah 'finds' a copy of the book of the law (convenient, as the nation was falling apart). He suggests that the accounts really represent 7th century sensibilities (such as the reference to Abraham from Chaldea, an exotic location to the 7th century mind) and pulled together a lot older tales into a single more or less coherent tale.

Suddenly the Israelites had a history, and a kind of national pride that did not exist before.

There is a hell of a lot more detail in that book, well worth it even if you have doubts.

It's a mistake, even when looking for historical basis, to assume all these things happened at the times specified, or in the order specified. Oral histories had a habit of becoming very fluid chronologically and events that didn't occur at the same time wind up being represented together.
Re: "How Wind Could Have Parted Red Sea" by mazaje(m): 11:38pm On Sep 23, 2010
naijacutee:



Evidence


http://www.arkdiscovery.com/red_sea_crossing.htm

The second site contains pictures of exploration of the sea bed where they found thousands of chariot remains, human bones and horse skeletons! No carry last o, bros. Google is your friend.


I just went through the second site again and discovered that it belongs to Ron Wyatt. I have news for you, his claims are so outlandish that other Christians have set out websites debunking so many of his claims. . . . .Here are the 3 major ones. . . . . .

Tent maker, Christian Information Ministries and Answers in Genesis
Re: "How Wind Could Have Parted Red Sea" by mystikal(m): 12:16am On Sep 24, 2010
This new wave of aggressive secularism is quite pathetic!
Re: "How Wind Could Have Parted Red Sea" by Mobinga: 12:50am On Sep 24, 2010
Re: "How Wind Could Have Parted Red Sea" by naijacutee(f): 10:24am On Sep 24, 2010
mazaje:

Is this what you call scientific evidence? A book written by a Christian fundamentalist?

You ask for evidence, I give you evidence and you don't even have the decency to look at the back cover - and you say  Christians are ignorant? Intellectual hypocrisy at it's finest.

“Most ignorance is vincible ignorance. We don't know because we don't want to know.” -  Aldous Huxley quotes (English Novelist and Critic, 1894-1963)

Why now, should I listen to anything you say, having displayed that you are not prepared to listen to anything I have to say? Is there any point in continuing this conversation?

And to clarify, the author of the book I suggested, James Hoffmeier is professor of Old Testament and Ancient Near Eastern History and Archaeology. He holds a BA, MA, and gained a Doctorate in Philosophy from the University of Toronto. He has appeared in and consulted for TV programs for Discovery, History and Learning Channels, and National Geographic, so I won't jump into the whole "Oh, he's a christian fundamentalist" bandwagon so quickly. (Especially if you yourself are displaying signs of atheist fundamentalism.)
Re: "How Wind Could Have Parted Red Sea" by DGIPLUS(m): 1:42pm On Sep 24, 2010
@Omo-Fat,

We're saying thesame thing. If they think it's the wind, God controls the wind.

Cheers!
Re: "How Wind Could Have Parted Red Sea" by InesQor(m): 6:22pm On Sep 24, 2010
@mazaje: You should know better: Ancient Egyptians ALWAYS used to clean up whenever they had major defeats. . .
Re: "How Wind Could Have Parted Red Sea" by thehomer: 7:57pm On Sep 24, 2010
mystikal:

This new wave of aggressive secularism is quite pathetic!

What do you mean by aggressive secularism?
Re: "How Wind Could Have Parted Red Sea" by Nimshi: 11:10pm On Sep 24, 2010
Hahahaha. People without faith looking for science to confirm their beliefs.

Of course, winds could open a 'land bridge'.

So how would that qualify as a miracle with old man Moses stretching forth his talisman cane?

And, - wait for it - Pharaoh and his men drowning in a small river flow!
Re: "How Wind Could Have Parted Red Sea" by nuclearboy(m): 11:15pm On Sep 24, 2010
^^^ Actually, its more like science looking for a way to explain something they've been forced to agree happened yet desire to water down

Joke's on science here
Re: "How Wind Could Have Parted Red Sea" by Nobody: 12:58am On Sep 25, 2010
naijacutee:

You ask for evidence, I give you evidence and you don't even have the decency to look at the back cover - and you say  Christians are ignorant? Intellectual hypocrisy at it's finest.

“Most ignorance is vincible ignorance. We don't know because we don't want to know.” -  Aldous Huxley quotes (English Novelist and Critic, 1894-1963)

Why now, should I listen to anything you say, having displayed that you are not prepared to listen to anything I have to say? Is there any point in continuing this conversation?

And to clarify, the author of the book I suggested, James Hoffmeier is professor of Old Testament and Ancient Near Eastern History and Archaeology. He holds a BA, MA, and gained a Doctorate in Philosophy from the University of Toronto. He has appeared in and consulted for TV programs for Discovery, History and Learning Channels, and National Geographic, so I won't jump into the whole "Oh, he's a christian fundamentalist" bandwagon so quickly. (Especially if you yourself are displaying signs of atheist fundamentalism.)


err naijacutie, sorry but those are not "evidence". I think too many of us are getting desperate to prove the bible is true that we go through incredulous lengths to justify it. For me - i believe the bible is REAL and TRUE . . . mazaje is free to disagree from now to jericho. Doesnt change my belief and i'm not going to source unverified websites for him.
Re: "How Wind Could Have Parted Red Sea" by KAG: 12:35am On Sep 26, 2010
nuclearboy:

^^^ Actually, its more like science looking for a way to explain something they've been forced to agree happened yet desire to water down

Joke's on science here

Or better still, a Christian scientist trying to ground a Biblical report in a plausible physical explanation. IIRC, Carl Drews, the lead scientist on this, is a Christian.

By the way, at the risk of pointing out the obvious, you guys realise that what Drews and his team are saying is more or less "this is a possible way what was reported in the Bible could have happened".
Re: "How Wind Could Have Parted Red Sea" by nuclearboy(m): 11:00am On Sep 26, 2010
KAG:

Or better still, a Christian scientist trying to ground a Biblical report in a plausible physical explanation. IIRC, Carl Drews, the lead scientist on this, is a Christian.

By the way, at the risk of pointing out the obvious, you guys realise that what Drews and his team are saying is more or less "this is a possible way what was reported in the Bible could have happened".

For someone seeking a prop, I grant it COULD be a desire to find plausible explanations for these events. However, you might be better served actually bothering to search and find out what other experts believe. Currently the consensus is that these events happened but that the supernatural portions "may" be explained differently.

An example - The fall of the walls of Jericho.

A scientific study wonders why Rahab the prostitute tied a red scarf "OUTSIDE" the walls (since a war INSIDE wouldn't see a rope OUTSIDE.
Science thus states that whist Israel walked around the wall for 7 days, Joshua sent up 10 men at a time up the rope Rahab had used to let down the spies. The march around distracted the watchers since they just kept their eyes on the marching army. By the seventh day, a sizable force was in her apartment and their appearance inside figuratively "sent" the walls down. It is noteworthy that science refused to accept this battle took place as it did until presented with incontrovertible evidence. grin Same with the incidence at the Red Sea where science postulates that it was the "Reed" sea and that what Moses did was put the fire heading the column "BEHIND" his people so whist Egypt thought they were coming towards them and were blinded by the brazier fires, low tide allowed Israel to cross the Sea. By morning when Pharaoh realised they'd crossed, tide was coming in and the swamp couldn't support the weight of Iron chariots hence the sinking of Pharaoh's ordinance.

Do you seek explanations for what did not happen? Or why postulate theories for what didn't happen? Which tells you what?

The desire to find "logical" explanations comes only because findinds are showing these things happened. We (Christians) have an explanation. Science is trying to understand but with foot already in mouth prior to now, the desire is to explain away or water down!

But do not believe me - The "History Channel" broadcast a series called "Battles BC" and you can download the programs free if you have a torrent downloader at thepirateorg.bay. If you would like the exact URL to download, let me know.

The program is moderated by amongst others,

David George Ph.D
Director, Institute of Mediterranean Archeology
Professor of Classics, St. Anselm College and author of over 40 books

Steven Weingartner
Author, Chariots like a whirlwind,
The Saga of Chariotry and Chariot Warfare

Richard A. Gabriel Ph. D
Distinguished Professor
Royal Military college of Canada

Mark Schwartz, Ph.D
Department of Anthropology
Grand Valley State University

I'd like to see you put your credibility against the above or that of the History Channel. Google will show you the background of the men named above so you can quickly bury your "Christian Scientist" theory.

As "Davidylan" is wont to say - "There is something to attack in Faith/belief which is why you guys seem to have points" - doubt and questions always sound enlightened, non-compromising and "hype" grin.

But remember, just as I will not call you wrong for what someone else said, you ought not carry your big stick around thinking all Christians are unaware of truth or non-desirous of it. Some of us are not in it for the money or the emotional comfort.
Re: "How Wind Could Have Parted Red Sea" by vescucci(m): 1:42pm On Sep 26, 2010
God almighty. Everyone wants to become popular through ridiculous means. Burn Qurans, marry 13 year olds or publish an article that ridicules science. I didn't bother to follow the link. I'm at a loss what to say but I'll just say this: discounting the supposed miraculous event by explaining it away and still claiming the Israelites escaped thus is a cyclical contradiction. In other words: an unlikely (impossible in my opinion) just so happens so that Israelites may escape from the Egyptians. Abi are they just demonstrating HOW God did it? The whole thing is a stupid publicity stunt
Re: "How Wind Could Have Parted Red Sea" by nuclearboy(m): 1:59pm On Sep 26, 2010
^^^ Its actually very fascinating and watching the episodes tells a lot about how science can be a donkey atimes. The fantasies of "we believe it happened thus and thus" are simply interesting to see. "I don't know" is allowable but no, not for these people - they know God does not exist yet they spend all their time trying to disprove His existence. They also know Miracles cannot be real so spend so much trying to find "reasons" why things happened that cannot be explained.

Translations, deliberate mischief and misunderstandings could have impacted on the words and exactness of the Bible over the years but just saying "it didn't happen because such doesn't happen daily" is just plain daft, IMO. No one ever said it was a physics textbook that depended on exactness.
Re: "How Wind Could Have Parted Red Sea" by naijacutee(f): 9:37pm On Sep 26, 2010
davidylan:

err naijacutie, sorry but those are not "evidence". I think too many of us are getting desperate to prove the bible is true that we go through incredulous lengths to justify it. For me - i believe the bible is REAL and TRUE . . . mazaje is free to disagree from now to jericho. Doesnt change my belief and i'm not going to source unverified websites for him.

Ok, fair enough. It's not evidence, but it is relevant material on the topic which might be able to shed some light on the topic in question from a different view. My point in citing that was that mazaje would have found material on the issue if he really looked, before borrowing people's incantations of "No evidence!"

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