Maximus69:
That is exactly what i'm saying Sir!
There will always be something to appreciate in whatever humans gather to do but the most important part: is it beneficial to all concerned?
You said earlier that you're interested in information and knowledge.
Wel, a wise man defined knowledge as power and we all know that power connotes the ability to do work, and work is something that is done to benefit all both concerned and those not concerned!

They are beneficial only if you want to live in the past and believe the fairytales they are based on, otherwise a good life without them is to me more desirable.

asalimpo:

Excerpts:
"Jehovah's Witnesses link to UN queried
Sect accused of hypocrisy over association
with organisation it has demonised.
“The United Nations is being asked to
investigate why it has granted associate
status to the Jehovah's Witnesses, the
fundamentalist US-based Christian sect,
which regards it as the scarlet beast
predicted in the Book of Revelation.
Disaffected members of the 6m-strong
group, which has 130,000 followers in the
UK, have accused the Witnesses' elderly
governing body of hypocrisy in secretly
accepting links with an organisation that
they continue to denounce in apocalyptic
terms. The UN itself admitted yesterday that
it was surprised that the sect, whose formal
name is the Watchtower Bible and Tract
Society of New York, had been accepted on
its list of non-governmental organisations
for the last 10 years.”"

https://www.watchtowerlies.com/watchtower_and_un_10_years_relationship.html

So it's an "association" that ended 18 years ago, what relevance has that got today?

LordReed:


They are beneficial only if you want to live in the past and believe the fairytales they are based on, otherwise a good life without them is to me more desirable.

LIVE IN THE PAST you say Sir!
But you yourself said you're interested in information and knowledge!
So how are you going to get these two without considering what others have done in the past to make things work?
For instance we study Biology, Physics and Chemistry in school today, we are not interested in the old system of how those ancient scientist feared but HOW TO PROCEED IN MODERN TIMES if there is anything worthwhile in the former process they applied back then! If it still works perfectly we will continue to apply it until someone comes up with a better research that could ease the process!
What most atheists are demanding is funny because we all know that scientists in ancient times did many things but went through lots of rigorous processes unlike modern day scientists. Yet an average atheist will be demanding that what a modern day believer does should also follow the same process that was written long ago!
Well Sir, it is atheists like you claiming believers who do insist that God must always deal with his modern day worshipers exactly the same way he dealt with his faithful worshipers in ancient times!
But if you don't expect a modern day laboratory to be exactly like the laboratory of Isaac Newton, then there is no sense in expecting modern day believers to keep doing things just like ancient worshipers, neither will God also deal with his modern day believers the same way he dealt with ancient ones!
You can walk into a modern day science lab today, and start asking for equipments portrayed in old pictures of twentieth century lab. But a modern day scientist will point to modern day equipments that works better than that now!

Maximus69:
LIVE IN THE PAST you say Sir!
But you yourself said you're interested in information and knowledge!
So how are you going to get these two without considering what others have done in the past to make things work?
For instance we study Biology, Physics and Chemistry in school today, we are not interested in the old system of how those ancient scientist feared but HOW TO PROCEED IN MODERN TIMES if there is anything worthwhile in the former process they applied back then! If it still works perfectly we will continue to apply it until someone comes up with a better research that could ease the process!
What most atheists are demanding is funny because we all know that scientists in ancient times did many things but went through lots of rigorous processes unlike modern day scientists. Yet an average atheist will be demanding that what a modern day believer does should also follow the same process that was written long ago!
Well Sir, it is atheists like you claiming believers who do insist that God must always deal with his modern day worshipers exactly the same way he dealt with his faithful worshipers in ancient times!
But if you don't expect a modern day laboratory to be exactly like the laboratory of Isaac Newton, then there is no sense in expecting modern day believers to keep doing things just like ancient worshipers, neither will God also deal with his modern day believers the same way he dealt with ancient ones!
You can walk into a modern day science lab today, and start asking for equipments portrayed in old pictures of twentieth century lab. But a modern day scientist will point to modern day equipments that works better than that now!

So tell me what is your organisation's stance on transsexuals?

LordReed:


So it's an "association" that ended 18 years ago, what relevance has that got today?

this is extremely dumb a statemnt to make. Think bf you type.

asalimpo:

this is extremely dumb a statemnt to make. Think bf you type.

You wrote an accusatory post like if it was an ongoing matter, only to find out it is something from 18years ago. A child born then would already have hair on his chin and pubes. Anytime you are asked pertinent questions you become defensive, a sure sign you recognize the problems with your position but instead of being honest you spit nonsense. Check yourself.

LordReed:


So tell me what is your organisation's stance on transsexuals?

Well, why not tell my your PERSONAL stance on it first?
Our organization don't encroach on people's private lives except if such a person finds our presentations appealing and ask if what he/she does could bring any LASTING BENEFITS to himself/herself and others!

Janosky:


Lying Pharisees and hypocrites una food dun done.

JW matter dey disturb una brain sottayy any copy and paste falsehood una see online go dey give una wet dream.

God's chosen [s] organisation [/b] cult that trades in lies and hypocrisy . You r free to stay with them. When confronted with the truth some deny it . Other accept it.

Maximus69:
Well, why not tell my your PERSONAL stance on it first?
Our organization don't encroach on people's private lives except if such a person finds our presentations appealing and ask if what he/she does could bring any LASTING BENEFITS to himself/herself and others!

My personal stance is every human being who is not causing harm to another human being or unnecessary destruction to our shared environment (which includes plants and animals) should be free to live their lives how they please. Transsexuals are human beings and deserve to be treated with all the respect and have all the rights every other person has.

Now tell me does your organisation treat transsexuals with respect and advocate that they have all their rights intact?

LordReed:


You wrote an accusatory post like if it was an ongoing matter, only to find out it is something from 18years ago. A child born then would already have hair on his chin and pubes. Anytime you are asked pertinent questions you become defensive, a sure sign you recognize the problems with your position but instead of being honest you spit nonsense. Check yourself.

what does time hav to do with matters of spirituality and eternal significance? You dont know how categorise things? Does the passage of 18 or 8000 years make it somehow accceptable that "God's mouthpiece" lied nd deceived millions for over a decade So blatantly? You preach from d pulpit that the UN is d beast. God will destroy the UN. The UN is the son of satan etc but behind the scenes,lo,look who is registered with the UN! the very one who condemns them. What does time hav to do with such dubious character?

LordReed:


My personal stance is every human being who is not causing harm to another human being or unnecessary destruction to our shared environment (which includes plants and animals) should be free to live their lives how they please. Transsexuals are human beings and deserve to be treated with all the respect and have all the rights every other person has.

Now tell me does your organisation treat transsexuals with respect and advocate that they have all their rights intact?

Thanks for that tactful expression Sir!
Of course we must show respect for the lives of every living thing. Simply because they're not from our blood or race doesn't implies that they are inferior, neither does it makes them worthless. Every living thing should be given the chance to enjoy life to the full, except[as you rightly said] if such is causing any harm to other living things or destroying the environment!
So our organization's motto is 'live and let live'!

Janosky:


Lying Pharisees and hypocrites una food dun done.

JW matter dey disturb una brain sottayy any copy and paste falsehood una see online go dey give una wet dream.

You rush in to call me liar and hypocrite...

Whereas the pix you attached still supports the purpose of this thread.

Your organization has been using UN Library that they accused of being beast for many years and for them to be able to continue using the library they have to form association with the same Beast....Yet you didn't see the hypocrisy in their movement but have gut to call me the names that best fit your own organization.

When a blind is leading a blind...it's like a pastor visiting an herbalist yet portraying herbalist as evil.

Well the joke is on you...

asalimpo:

what does time hav to do with matters of spirituality and eternal significance? You dont know how categorise things? Does the passage of 18 or 8000 years make it somehow accceptable that "God's mouthpiece" lied nd deceived millions for over a decade So blatantly? You preach from d pulpit that the UN is d beast. God will destroy the UN. The UN is the son of satan etc but behind the scenes,lo,look who is registered with the UN! the very one who condemns them. What does time hav to do with such dubious character?

The one thing consistent with the JW organisation is change of position depending on varying factors. Whether it makes them hypocrites is up for debate cos anyone can claim they made a made a mistake and went about to correct it. You didn't need to frame it like it was a matter that was still subsisting, if they change their position on a matter it is their prerogative to do so.

LordReed:


You wrote an accusatory post like if it was an ongoing matter, only to find out it is something from 18years ago. A child born then would already have hair on his chin and pubes. Anytime you are asked pertinent questions you become defensive, a sure sign you recognize the problems with your position but instead of being honest you spit nonsense. Check yourself.

You call this an ACCUSATION, how is it an accusation?

Besides, referring to something of 18years now is no more fact in our world, right?

I know you're not here to defend JWs but this line of your reasoning is out of it.

Janosky:


Lying Pharisees and hypocrites una food dun done.

JW matter dey disturb una brain sottayy any copy and paste falsehood una see online go dey give una wet dream.

Proof that there usually no objectivity to your argumnts. It's never about d truth but sentimnts. Here is your so called God's chosen representative on earth. The one Jesus came back in 1914 (in a jet /ufo spaceship) and handpicked! Here's tht organisation lying and deceiving it's members for years!
Your cult feeds you lies. Instead of getting out of the cesspit,you wallow in it nd fight those telling you,you r being deceived.

Emusan:


You call this an ACCUSATION, how is it an accusation?

Besides, referring to something of 18years now is no more fact in our world, right?

I know you're not here to defend JWs but this line of your reasoning is out of it.

I said he framed it like an ongoing matter. Also you do not call someone a hypocrite simply because they changed their position, that's not what a hypocrite is.

LordReed:


The one thing consistent with the JW organisation is change of position depending on varying factors. Whether it makes them hypocrites is up for debate cos anyone can claim they made a made a mistake and went about to correct it. You didn't need to frame it like it was a matter that was still subsisting, if they change their position on a matter it is their prerogative to do so.

What you didn't grab from this is that

JWs has been calling UN the beast of revelation for many years before they become associate.

Why calling them the beast, they are still secretly using UN LIBRARY....imagine!

After they discovered that secretly using the library won't work anymore unless you are part of them...they took the bold step of joining their association.

The point would've been clear had it been JWs started calling UN the beast of revelation after the whole issue but calling someone beast of revelation and still using the facility of that person is what sir?

LordReed:


The one thing consistent with the JW organisation is change of position depending on varying factors. Whether it makes them hypocrites is up for debate cos anyone can claim they made a made a mistake and went about to correct it. You didn't need to frame it like it was a matter that was still subsisting, if they change their position on a matter it is their prerogative to do so.

Hmmm,
Did you know that this action of yours is fulfilling what was written some 2000 years ago? 1Peter 2:12,3:16
Well Christianity is about those who accepted that 'they are Sinners' [Luke 5:32] and sin connotes error or blunders, those who agreed they're sinners are individuals who admitted they are prone to errors,so they are ever ready to make needed amendments to live up to expectation as followers of Christ.
Sir, that is what it truthfully means to be a Christian!

LordReed:


I said he framed it like an ongoing matter. Also you do not call someone a hypocrite simply because they changed their position, that's not what a hypocrite is.

He didn't, I could remember he told you to do research first on your own right from beginning.

They are hypocrites because they have been accusing UN first before they joined. They didn't change their position but when people exposed their dubious act that's why the back out.

Is pastor who sees herbalist as evil person and preaching against it but went secretly to the same herbalist for power an hypocrite?

Emusan:


He didn't, I could remember he told you to do research first on your own right from beginning.

They are hypocrites because they have been accusing UN first before they joined. They didn't change their position but when people exposed their dubious act that's why the back out.

Is pastor who sees herbalist as evil person and preaching against it but went secretly to the same herbalist for power an hypocrite?

Yes they were hypocrites then but now on the same matter they are not, you'll have to word it differently.

He told me to research because if he had put it from the beginning his framing them as hypocrites now will hold no water. I already have heard of this matter before but I was not sure if it was the same as before hence my questions.

LordReed:


The one thing consistent with the JW organisation is change of position depending on varying factors. Whether it makes them hypocrites is up for debate cos anyone can claim they made a made a mistake and went about to correct it. You didn't need to frame it like it was a matter that was still subsisting, if they change their position on a matter it is their prerogative to do so.

They change their stance because they r still experimntng with religion. Theyre playing church has cost many ppl so much. They r not God's mouthpiece nd shud clearly comeout to admit this instead of continuing to entrap their victims in its web of lies n deceit. What if God said in d bible, it's okay to steal then elsewhere He says all theives will burn in hell. What would the christians say? You'd call Him a hypocrite. What if a husband invites the wife abroad to work. She resigns her job,packs and travels out but lo nd behold the work is prostitution with threat of death if she squealled. What would you say about the man or to the woman? But here,a group, claiming to b God's chosen, lies to it's members constantly. When the members begin to question their doctrines,they threaten that member with ostracization. What dyu say about such? It doesnt matter cuz it happened x years ago?

asalimpo:

They change their stance because they r still experimntng with religion. Theyre playing church has cost many ppl so much. They r not God's mouthpiece nd shud clearly comeout to admit this instead of continuing to entrap their victims in its web of lies n deceit. What if God said in d bible, it's okay to steal then elsewhere He says all theives will burn in hell. What would the christians say? You'd call Him a hypocrite. What if a husband invites the wife abroad to work. She resigns her job,packs and travels out but lo nd behold the work is prostitution with threat of death if she squealled. What would you say about the man or to the woman? But here,a group, claiming to b God's chosen, lies to it's members constantly. When the members begin to question their doctrines,they threaten that member with ostracization. What dyu say about such? It doesnt matter cuz it happened x years ago?

A more appropriate illustration is if someone says this icecream parlour sells the worst icecream I will never buy from them. Then one day they are caught buying icecream there. If they now stop buying the icecream there for 18 years how are they still hypocrites? They were hypocrites when they were buying now that they have stopped they no longer are.

LordReed:
Yes they were hypocrites then but now on the same matter they are not, you'll have to word it differently.

Your statement @bold looks like what a typical JWs will say, reason the person discussing with you can justify your post by saying "Well Christianity is about those who accepted that 'they are Sinners' [Luke 5:32] and sin connotes error or blunders,"

But what you failed to realize is that this action by JWs organization simply shows the kind of person they are and how they manipulate situation to their favour.

He told me to research because if he had put it from the beginning his framing them as hypocrites now will hold no water. I already have heard of this matter before but I was not sure if it was the same as before hence my questions.

They are hypocrites because if you are being reading about JWs you would've known.

Case study is the statement of the person discussing with you "Well Christianity is about those who accepted that 'they are Sinners' [Luke 5:32] and sin connotes error or blunders,"

Look at this statement from the suppose person who strongly believe that JWs are the only TRUE FOLLOWERS of Christ today.

But just to compliment your statement he had to pull out this.

Decades before they joined the UN association they were written various articles against UN and Christendom but towards the time they want to join, they tune changed and begin to praise UN.

Please read this article with open mind to that you can have a clear understanding of what we're saying.

https://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/united-nations-association.php

LordReed:


A more appropriate illustration is if someone says this icecream parlour sells the worst icecream I will never buy from them. Then one day they are caught buying icecream there. If they now stop buying the icecream there for 18 years how are they still hypocrites? They were hypocrites when they were buying now that they have stopped they no longer are.

inappropriate:
claim: This shop sells the worse ice cream. Avoid them.
Sceptic: let's find out. Buys from worst shop,buys from good shop. Samples both products, arrives at conclusion.

This is vastly different from:
claim: This org is the cursed beast the bible speaks about
victim: how do i verify?
Accuser: believe me. God told me so. He reveals these mysteries to us-the anointed ones.
Victim: ok,if you say so i believe

case1: the claim is verifiable
case2: the claim isnt verifiable because of religious brainwashing involved. It doesnt even enter into d minds of the victim to question their claims.

Happening 8000 years ago changes nothing.
2) the deception and double talk would hav continued if the UN didnt proactively severe ties with the watchtower.

Emusan:


Your statement @bold looks like what a typical JWs will say, reason the person discussing with you can justify your post by saying "Well Christianity is about those who accepted that 'they are Sinners' [Luke 5:32] and sin connotes error or blunders,"

But what you failed to realize is that this action by JWs organization simply shows the kind of person they are and how they manipulate situation to their favour.



They are hypocrites because if you are being reading about JWs you would've known.

Case study is the statement of the person discussing with you "Well Christianity is about those who accepted that 'they are Sinners' [Luke 5:32] and sin connotes error or blunders,"

Look at this statement from the suppose person who strongly believe that JWs are the only TRUE FOLLOWERS of Christ today.

But just to compliment your statement he had to pull out this.

Decades before they joined the UN association they were written various articles against UN and Christendom but towards the time they want to join, they tune changed and begin to praise UN.

Please read this article with open mind to that you can have a clear understanding of what we're saying.

https://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/united-nations-association.php

Lemme ask you, according to your theology, are you still a sinner since you committed sin in the past?

Edit: asalimpo the question is for you too.

asalimpo:

inappropriate:
claim: This shop sells the worse ice cream. Avoid them.
Sceptic: let's find out. Buys from worst shop,buys from good shop. Samples both products, arrives at conclusion.

This is vastly different from:
claim: This org is the cursed beast the bible speaks about
victim: how do i verify?
Accuser: believe me. God told me so. He reveals these mysteries to us-the anointed ones.
Victim: ok,if you say so i believe

case1: the claim is verifiable
case2: the claim isnt verifiable because of religious brainwashing involved. It doesnt even enter into d minds of the victim to question their claims.

My scenario did not involve a 3rd party so I don't know how you included one.

2) the deception and double talk would hav continued if the UN didnt proactively severe ties with the watchtower.

It was the JWs who petitioned to be disassociated, don't get it twisted.

LordReed:


Lemme ask you, according to your theology, are you still a sinner since you committed sin in the past?

If my sin in the past is fornication and I committed murder now that still made me a sinner...

JWs keep being hypocrite in different ways...

So what they did 18years ago is one of many ones they have done and still doing.

Emusan:


If my sin in the past is fornication and I committed murder now that still made me a sinner...

JWs keep being hypocrite in different ways...

So what they did 18years ago is one of many ones they have done and still doing.

It's a simple question are you still a sinner because of your past sins?

If JW committed any current infractions why not list those why list something from 18years ago as though it is on going?

LordReed:


My scenario did not involve a 3rd party so I don't know how you included one.



It was the JWs who petitioned to be disassociated, don't get it twisted.

did they? Hav any proof,cuz from the info online,it seems the relationship blew up after their duplicity was exposed? Give your proof.

As for 3rd party, i dont know wht u mean. They r only 2 parties. The deceiver nd the deceived...
The jw isnt absolved off its devilishness neither are its crimes less severe because of d passage of time,which is what u r positing.

LordReed:


Lemme ask you, according to your theology, are you still a sinner since you committed sin in the past?

Edit: asalimpo the question is for you too.

am i still a sinner because a longtime has passed since i sinned? Time isnt the solvent for sin in christianity. Even in d secular world,it isnt so in certain justice systems. A murderer is guilty forever under most laws forever until tried nd convicted.
Secondly,we are not talking sin per se but about the authenticity of the claims of a group that asserts that they are God's one and only chosen representatives on earth. Their conduct is weighed against this claim and the results are used to debunk the claim and show that they are nothing but a cult held together by devious base human strategies. They are far from God in conduct nd doctrine.

asalimpo:

did they? Hav any proof,cuz from the info online,it seems the relationship blew up after their duplicity was exposed? Give your proof.

The Jehovah's Witnesses have hurriedly disaffiliated from the United Nations within days of a Guardian story in which members accused the sect of hypocrisy for supporting an organisation it has repeatedly denounced privately.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2001/oct/15/religion.unitednations

An article written in 2001 after JWs have dissociate from the UN. How does what they did in 2001 still make them a hypocrite today?

As for 3rd party, i dont know wht u mean. They r only 2 parties. The deceiver nd the deceived...
The jw isnt absolved off its devilishness neither are its crimes less severe because of d passage of time,which is what u r positing.

When you wrote this:

Sceptic: let's find out. Buys from worst shop,buys from good shop. Samples both products, arrives at conclusion.

It has no bearing with the scenario I posited. The person who was buying the icecream was the same person who said it was bad making them a hypocrite. There is no sceptic in the scenario.

asalimpo:

am i still a sinner because a longtime has passed since i sinned? Time isnt the solvent for sin in christianity. Even in d secular world,it isnt so in certain justice systems. A murderer is guilty forever under most laws forever until tried nd convicted.
Secondly,we are not talking sin per se but about the authenticity of the claims of a group that asserts that they are God's one and only chosen representatives on earth. Their conduct is weighed against this claim and the results are used to debunk the claim and show that they are nothing but a cult held together by devious base human strategies. They are far from God in conduct nd doctrine.

So you have not received forgiveness for your sins, you are still a sinner then?

I do not care about their doctrinal positions, it's not why I am pressing this matter.