realmindz:


Lol, you must be kidding me.

You seem to be delibrately hiding from the points I threw at you running round the bush. Religion claims perfection when it's stuck in primitive claims and exaggerated myths....and I've gone ahead to list some of these claims and beliefs to you, yet you tactically avoided it.
A book from beginning speaking of creation of earth in 7 days and how plants were created before sunlight.. Till the last page of the book speaking of a future of scrolls, chariots, bows and arrows or Jesus arriving from the sky with his army of horses for a battle.

Now let me ask you, do you as a believer still believe that some day, this event will happen as predicted in the book of revelation, do u see a future war fought with bows and arrows in this modern age of rockets and nuclear bomb. Do u still think of a future of using scrolls when you are reading this comment from your computer device....

If you don't, then that book called bible has seen it's useful days.

OtemAtum:
Pivadesh 2:1-24

Chapter Two
1. Religion had been allowed to prevail from the first year of the homo sapiens era to the 282,000th year of the homo sapiens era (spanning 282,000 years) but the world could not invent anything good with it.
2. It could neither invent paper nor pen. It could only invent war and strife.
3. It could neither invent barometer nor periscope, but it could only invent noises and riots.
4. It could neither invent microphone nor loudspeaker, but it could only invent false miracles and lies.
5. It could neither invent penicillin nor panadol, but it could only invent confusion and hatred.
6. It could neither invent scissors and selotape, but it could only invent gods and false witnesses.
7. It could neither invent telescope and thermometer, but it could only invent evil and wickedness.
8. It could neither mint paper money nor coins, but it could invent poverty and austerity.
9. It could neither mine gold nor refine petroleum, but it could invent lying stories and superstitions.
10. It could neither save lives nor cure sicknesses, but it could only endanger lives and cause insecurity.
11. It could neither increase true knowledge of nature nor help to define the nature of God Almighty, but it could only corrupt the laws of nature and falsify the nature of God Almighty.
12. It could neither breed peace nor bring world development, but it could breed terrorism and poverty of minds.
13. It could neither improve eyesight nor help in giving birth, but it could dim the mind and cause infanticide.
14. It could neither invent a paradise on earth nor peace of mind, but it could only invent hell fire in the mind and fear of afterlives.
15. It could neither invent rocket nor aeroplane, but it could only invent rapture and judgement day doom.
16. Science was not allowed to be freely practised until about 300 years ago, so it had spanned barely 300 years of free practice.
16. It has invented hydrometer and thermometer. It has also invented barometer, chronometer and photometer.
17. It has invented periscope, stethoscope, telescope and kaleidoscope. It has invented Spectroheliograph and seismograph, phonograph and addressograph.
18. It has also invented telephone, gramophone, megaphone and microphone.
19. It has invented ship, submarine, ferry, yacht and speedboat. It has also invented jet, aeroplane, helicopter and rocket.
20. It has invented fax machine, typewriter, printing machine and photocopier machine. It has also invented radio, television, video players, compact disk and memory cards.
21. It has invented camera, scanner, calculator, clock and tape recorder. It has also invented compact disk, diskette and memory card.
22. It has invented monocycle, bicycle, tricycle and automobile. It has also invented electricity, solar panel, power generator, inverter and incinerator.
23. It has invented computer, electric bell, electronic book, electric guitar, electric stove, electric blanket and electric sewing machine.
24. It has also invented toaster, soldering iron, pressing iron and rework station.

realmindz:



At the bolded is the reason religion in its all arrogance in foolishness has refused to moved forward from archaic beliefs.
Perfection isn't true, nothing is perfect, once perfection is attained, then that's the end of knowledge. And that's the beauty of science.

Now let's go straight to the point and stop beating around the bush..

Let's start with genesis...

Why would you in all your modernity and scientific knowledge still hold on to claims that a supposed Yahweh spent 5 days creating a planet earth alone and then one day to create the rest of the universe...?

You know why? the writers wrote from their primitive knowledge of their world, they saw their as the largest and most significant n the universe while those tiny dots in the skies called stars wont need more than just some a day to create... Just put the dots in the sky was their presumption.

The earth was created first before the rest of the galaxies and solar systems,

And yet, plants were created before the sun

A rib was taken from Adam to make the woman.

We have the tale of a talking walking snake. (the bad guy, tortoise stories will be better)

The timing spoilt the story, Adam and eve till this age is not up to 10,000 years.... But the earth is over 4 billions years

sulasa07:

Just google about Islam and early science,Muslim scientists in Baghdad created almost all the science materials we use today.

OtemAtum:
They created almost all and you hardly hear their names? Okay o, you mean that they used religion to invent those things or science. Which one please?

paxonel:
this is why i asked, is your All mighty God spirit?
In Christianity, we believe there is one God and he is a spirit. Spirits are supernatural beings, that means they do not have physical body made up of matter, yet they can influence matter that's the only way they can be part of matter.
So, God exist as spirit and can only influence this physical existence, that's the only way he can be part of matter.

Paxonel: No! that definition is for matter let's call a spade a spade.
Otherwise, you are saying that the existence of your Almighty God is restricted to matter and therefore he is not a spirit. You have to distinguish between spirit and matter,My bible has separated the two. John 3:6

Paxonel: we believe that there is one Almighty God called Yahweh! But like I have said before the name Yahweh is not important. What is important is, the Yahweh in the bible is known for keeping promises and covenants unlike the yahweh in your book of universal history
that is their own idea of who yahweh is, and that idea cannot be widely accepted to be the Yahweh of Christianity.
I will tell you why the Bible's account of Yahweh is widely accepted. The bible is straight-forward, it does not take invalid ideas from other religions to form the basics of it idea : If the bible is taking any idea from another religion, then that idea must be accepted and believed by people practicing that religion.

Paxonel: we have agreed that existence is beyond what we can see physically. I'm not excluding my God from existence, rather I'm saying that he exist as spirit. Even within that spiritual realm, he has existed long before the creation of spirits. I cannot be saying this on my own.

John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

These things include both physical and spiritual things such as angels.


Anyway, Christians knows Yahweh as Jesus Christ. He lives in us as spirit, so whatever idea you have about Yahweh in the old testament is of no consequence to Christians.

I will take time to read about it. I just googled it.

sulasa07:

But where did they gain their knowledge of science from?

OtemAtum:

So your god is even a 'he'.This already makes your god incomplete because every 'he' has a female counterpart.

That aside, you said that your god is only a spirit, therefore this makes him less than human beings, because humans are even more complicated than him, being Body, Soul and Spirit. So you see that Yahweh your god is even less powerful than you are.

Have you ever heard that ENERGY can neither be created nor destroyed? God Almighty is the source of Energy. It is the source of Yahweh your god. Without God Almighty, the Totality of Existence, there can never be Yahweh and his likes

Are you kidding me? Did you just say that the bible is straightforward? Pls can you define the word 'soon' to me? Fictitious Jesus in your bible said that he was coming back to the earth SOON, in the generation of his disciples. Till today, after 2000 years, that soon is yet to come. How then is your bible straightforward

So you mean Yahweh did terrible things in the old testament

and then proceeded to become Jesus in the New Testament

so that we can forget all the things he did in the old? That's more of an unrepentant ex-convict who doesn't want us to talk about his evil doings anymore. But the fact is that the Book of Universal History never forgets. It records everyone's deeds the way they were, therefore the iniquities of Yahweh would not be easily forgotten. Read about Yahweh again here:

paxonel:
i did not say God is male or female. 'he' and 'she' are used for subject in a sentence, not object. And since Adam can be a subject and was created first before the woman, i think that's the reason 'he' is mostly used for God.

Paxonel: that argument does not follow at all
You can understand the nature human body that they compose of body, spirit and soul simply because you can perceive them with your senses, but can you perceive spirits? That makes spirits more complicated.
If someone stand behind you and slap your face, you can turn around and retaliate. But what if you turn around and there is no one, yet you are receiving slaps like these African movies will put it ?
The situation becomes more complicated and makes you become frantic and not the usual play anymore.

Paxonel: we have resolved this before. Your Almight God is is physical, he is energy from the sun. But I'm telling you that my God is a spirit, who created the sun. So you see, our beliefs are different
But when you apply the two to reality, you will discover that one is superior than the other. Little wonder most people will prefer worshipping a spirit God rather than objects containing matter or energy.

Paxonel: I like you.
You are straight foward, many of my fellow Christians are not, therefore they simply can't understand what Jesus meant.
When Jesus was saying I'm coming, he meant humans will die. That is just the simple literal meaning of that figurative language "I am coming "

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

what is Jesus coming to do?
To judge men.

He is not coming in physical body anymore. Rather, the death of anybody marks the coming of Christ for that individual, that is the end of his world.

He told them in that generation, ofcourse it did not take long, some of them died. THEREFORE HIS COMING WAS VERY SOON AND SPEEDILY FOR THEM.
But many Christians don't know this even till this modern day of education.
It's 2000 years now and people are waiting, let them keep waiting
I didn't say so, there is no scriptural record to show that.
Exactly!
don't make deductions from what i did not say. This is strictly your own view and beliefs

OtemAtum:
Remember your bible said that humans are created in the image of your god. Probably your god has anus, armpits, breasts and joystick like humans. What do you think? This reduces your god to a human-like god. He must have a human stature. Yes, the Book of Universal History recorded even the weight of Yahweh.

Your god is only spirit, but humans are Spirit, Soul and Body. This makes your god a subset of the universal set[human]. So how can you tell me that your god is more complicated when he is only one-third of human composition?

you cannot lie that God Almighty is just energy from the sun. You thought that it is only the sun that produces energy?

Sorry, everything in existence has one energy or the other. You should go into the spiritual realms, the inner universes, the Shachine etc and you will see far far more greater energy than you could ever imagine. Energies far far greater than the energy from our sun. Spiritual Energy is there, etc. So don't limit God Almighty to physical things. God Almighty is the summation EVERYTHING in Existence and Yahweh your god happen to be less than 0.0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% of everything in existence, therefore Yahweh your god is negligible compared to Almighty God his source.

So you are the one helping fictitious Jesus to interprete what he meant abi? So there's not going to be anything like rapture? How come Kumuyi and his likes kept telling us that rapture will take place?

Is it the same holy spirit you guys are getting your inspiration from? Christians in a bid to find excuses for the failures of their bible, will interprete every literal things figuratively

paxonel:

whatever!
we don't need all that
you can do the calculation again,It still do not follow.
why should i think so?
Even animal faeces produce energy we all know that?
But do you worship animal faeces because your almighty God is the totality of existence including animal faeces?
Is your almight God animal faeces too?
OK, I'm not ready to probe into the spiritual to find out these things, i only rely on records
that's why i say let kumuyi and their likes keep waiting. For me, i have better things to do with my life
did you say every literal things?

For the fact that not everything in the bible is written literally there is no way everyone reading the bible will arive at consensus. The majority will be confused and few will grasp the understanding. what will determine whether the reader is confused or grasping is whether the reader is a happy person or not.

The same thing applies, is the book of universal history contributing to your happiness on earth?

paxonel:
you are already beating about the bush by using words like arrogance and foolishness were they are not warranted.
only primitive Christians believe that. But educated ones have understood this.

https://creation.com/2-peter-38-one-day-is-like-a-thousand-years

Also, see the screenshot below.
you are absolutely correct
this isn't part of it.
this one too, they are not part of the creation idea.
it's a figurative language. It means the woman was created the same species as that of Adam.
that's spiritual interference!
We believe that spirits were capable of performing miracles that seems to be like a fairy tales.. Even today, some people are still gifted with miracles, but not as much as fairy tales anymore.

Why will God allow such miracles?
Because people were still primitive then without knowledge. Act 17:30
that is because it was not actually 10,000 years, it could be more millions of years based on 2 Peter 3:8

realmindz:


10 000 years could be millions of years..... But Adam did not live up to a 1000 year and he was created on the 4th day or so

Where did that come from? The more u try to defend this, the more u see the loopholes.

Is it easier to say that things that sound illogical becomes figurative in the bible? That looks like someone just making up excuses in his head for the inadequacies

paxonel:
tell me more!

Someone just kicked the bucket can be a statement made by anyone and when the person explains that his statement means someone just died, you will now come and say the person is making excuses for his inadequacies of making people like you to perceive that he actually meant someone just kicked the bucket?

Do you hear yourself at all?

See, so long you have the vast majority agreeing that he meant someone just died and you are still wallowing in the thinking that he meant someone just kicked the bucket, you will be left alone.

At that point, who is now the one making excuses?

OtemAtum:
They created almost all and you hardly hear their names? Okay o, you mean that they used religion to invent those things or science. Which one please?

sulasa07:

Google is there for you.

realmindz:

Genesis 5

5:5] Thus all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred thirty years; and he died.


So Adam who was created within the 6 days

So Adam who was created with 6 days lived for 936 years.... Adam till 2019 is not up to 10000 years.

Kindly explain

OtemAtum:
I've never heard that people used religion to invent scientific devices. I've checked Google and it's not there either

OtemAtum:

They were spiritual when they were in the spiritual realms. They were physical when they were on the planet earth. They died and became spiritual beings again.

You(Paxonel) were spiritual when you were in the spiritual realms(before you were brought into this earth consciousness). You are now physical as you are in this physical realm. Whenever you die, you will become a spiritual being again.

Now compare the two(you and them) and you will find out that there is no difference between you and Yahweh or Allah.

However, the only difference they made was that when they were on earth like you, they made people to worship them as God Almighty. Then after they were dead, people continued to worship them as God Almighty such that today many people now thought of them as God Almighty while they don't even come near.

If Olumba Olumba, Haille Selassie,Reverend King, Sat Guru Maharaji, Malaika, etc can have millions of worshippers after their death, then it won't be a shock when these people mentioned above become the 'God Almighty' to humans of the future, same way Yahweh, Allah, Vishnu etc who are past dead beings have now become the 'God Almighty' to some people today.

wickedtuna:
is science then validating the existence of the spiritual realm ?

OtemAtum:
We now have spirit science, but it's not a mainstream science for now.

paxonel:
ehe?
Tell me something.
no, it does not.
Can you prove that?
no, it isn't a flat earth theory.
Flat earth theory was the idea of ancient Roman catholic.
Four corners of the earth was how primitive humans could imagine what the earth looks like without the thought of it being a sphere or flat. It shows that people who documented scriptures at that period were never educated enough to know how the earth looks like.
what do you expect primitive humans to say when they saw the moon glowing at night?
Being primitive not to understand can never be said to be contradiction. It's like you are saying because a growing baby sees aeroplane flying just like birds are flying and therefore calls the aeroplane bird, then the baby is contradicting himself.
The baby does not know anything, he is still growing up and learning.
you did not see this one in the bible, it's not there.
that science teaches that flood cannot occur in nature?
falling stars are figurative language, it means a state of darkness. It does not necessarily mean that stars are falling to the earth

wickedtuna:
Interesting. So if mainstream science refuses to acknowledge the existence of the spirit realm and then here comes another branch of it which acknowledges its existence, that which religion has took a stand for, would you then say science is simply walking in the shadows of religion ?

OtemAtum:


Science never said that there is no spiritual realm. They only said that there are no available facts for now. Religion just jumble things up and make everything complicated, for example, having thousands of different religions with no specific definition of what the spiritual realm looks like. Only science will eventually get there to give us the exact description, but it is a matter of time.

MJBOLT:

i thought god was the one who gave the writers the inspiration to write the bible,are you now saying that even god does not know how the earth looks like?

paxonel:
being inspired is not the same as having knowledge.
There is a limit of understanding inspiration can help someone to achieve, but having the full understanding has no limitation when it comes to issue.

Men were inspired to write scriptures does not mean that the men were all knowing.

MJBOLT:

yet the so called all knowing god could not give them the knowledge and prevent such mistake,i love how you keep pointing out the shortcomings of your god.

[s][/s]

paxonel:
the point is, God did not create man only to inpute automatic knowledge into his brain.
Man have to undergo the learning stages from childhood to adulthood.

If imputing automatic knowledge is what atheists were expecting i think that expectation is flawed by natural process, hence you were not thinking straight.

MJBOLT:

then your inadequate god

i'm sure your all knowing god saw that mistake but turned a blind eye to it same way his followers turn a blind eye to the truth,logic and common sense.