Juliaann:
sure no problem


Btw can I ask you something?

Oh? Shoot!

Do I answer here or elsewhere

Juve it is

Not a bad draw

Hopefully our injured players would be back in February

I am happy we got Juve. Arturo and Coman should be fired up. They were much stronger in 2013 when we dismantled them. We just need to play to the best of our abilities

Wolfsburg drew Gent

Europa League
Schalke vs Donetsk
Leverkusen vs Sporting
Dortmund vs Porto
Augsburg vs Liverpool

Very difficult draws for German teams in the Europa League

in the Europa Maybe only 2 of them would make it to the next round

raumdeuter:
in the Europa Maybe only 2 of them would make it to the next round

maybe one, maybe 2

Dortmund and Leverkusen I suspect. Schalke can too but would need to seriously raise their game

Bayern: Neuer - Martinez, Lewandowski, Rafinha, Alonso, Boateng, Lahm (K), Vidal, Müller, Coman, Kimmich

Dayo, i even wan ask you...

Alonso at his peak vs Busquets at his peak - who was/is the better DM??

Dadehmola:
Dayo, i even wan ask you...

Alonso at his peak vs Busquets at his peak - who was/is the better DM??

Alonso at his peak played as a CM, Na loss in pace make baba go DM now

In Liverpool he had Hamman, Mascherano in Madrid he had Khedira playing DM behind him

What Alonso has over Busquets is long passes, One major disadv of Alonso is that he is slow and can get caught on the ball they he would result to ill-timed tackles

Busquets knows how to protect the ball more than Alonso and his turnovers are less

So to your question as a DM peak busquets or peak Alonso. Give me peak Busquets

Dem ban me for Politics section ni and see the reason below



a moderator banned raumdeuter for "you are free to exercise your freedom to deactivate" encouraging members to deactivate. violation of rule 7. Ban expires at December 17, 2015 at 09:09:05 AM.

Someone dey threaten to deactivate and I told him to go ahead next thing I was banned

Alonso. Classic man

What a golazo

1-0

On to the next one

sleekdot:


Alonso at his peak played as a CM, Na loss in pace make baba go DM now

In Liverpool he had Hamman, Mascherano in Madrid he had Khedira playing DM behind him

I do not agree...

Alonso has always been a "defensive, deep-lying playmaker".... He predominantly featured in a double pivot in the examples you gave.

sleekdot:

What Alonso has over Busquets is long passes, One major disadv of Alonso is that he is slow and can get caught on the ball they he would result to ill-timed tackles

Alonso = A tough-tackling Pirlo who could temporarily fill in at CB!!

Forget the occasional rash challenges - Such a player would be the captain of my team any day!!

sleekdot:

Busquets knows how to protect the ball more than Alonso and his turnovers are less

His turn overs are less because he doesn't have much to do defensively - this is what we have been telling you people....

Busquets has thrived in a system where he only has to Make interceptions when other teammates are pressing rigorously (during the few spells opponents have possession)..... after which he looks to fall over at the slightest touch.

Shey na player be that??

sleekdot:

So to your question as a DM peak busquets or peak Alonso. Give me peak Busquets

Alonso is Busquets father in all Departments the game. Bus-whaat??

I would even pick an in-form carrick over Bus-whatever-he-calls-himself.

^^ Thats your opinion and it doesnt make it right. Havent we seen people who claimed Joe Cole was better than Schweinsteiger or that Hazard was better than neymar

Busquets turnovers are less because he protects the ball better you can hardly strip him of possesion at worst he would dive to cover the ball

A double pivot is usually used in a 4-2-3-1 and the 2 ahead of the back 4 are the double pivot also called the doppelsechs

In what you call a double pivot one is usually the main DM and one the CM

In the Martinez-Schweinsteiger double pivot. Martinez was the DM Schweini was the CM

The 2 - (double six)
It's actually superfluous, but we will go into it anyway. Our "sixes" need to possess a high degree of footballing intelligence and the ability to "read" a game. But all players need that nowadays, don't they?
The "double six" is often interpreted in the following way as part of this system of play: one of the "sixes" is more offensively oriented, is often unmarked in the midfield and thus can be passed to, additionally takes care of the playmaking and secures the rear space behind number 10 if his team is in possession of the ball. The second "six" is mostly responsible for defensive tasks. Ideally, the two players swap their roles in the system of play time and time again, in order to become less predictable.
In the defensive, the "sixes" may easily form triangles with two players of the "four back" on their sides and thus heavily attack the opposing player in possession of the ball. Gaps for possible passing routes are automatically closed in the process and if possession of the ball is won, it is easy to find access to the wing players in the midfield. However, the running paths are often very long as described above and it is often hard to support the wing-

Alonso might be an overall better and more intelligent player than Busquets but as a DM solely Busquets to me is the better option

Another example of a doible pivot is Dortmunds Bender-Gundogan

While Bender is the DM, Gundogan is the CM. Same thing with Chelsea Matic-Fabregas double pivot Matic is the DM Fabregas is the CM. When Arsenal play 4231 their double pivot is usually Coquelin-Cazorla. Coquelin is the DM Cazorla is the CM

sleekdot:
Another example of a doible pivot is Dortmunds Bender-Gundogan

While Bender is the DM, Gundogan is the CM. Same thing with Chelsea Matic-Fabregas double pivot Matic is the DM Fabregas is the CM

Yes. Coquelin and Cazorla at Arsenal.

hariorh:
Yes. Coquelin and Cazorla at Arsenal.

I updated it too. You get the drift about the double pivot ish

na only bottom and teams who are fighting relegation would play 2 DM as double pivot because they usually dont intend to attack at all use that as a way to bolster their defence

.

hariorh:
It will be close this time.

Barcelona haven’t been all that solid at the back. They already conceded 4 goals in a match this season. Tactically, Arsenal have been improving. Kudos to Wenger on this. I expect the winner of the tie to go through on away goals.

I expect Barcelona to win comfortably with a 2 goal margin at least

Arsenal are still several rungs below Bayern and barcelona

sleekdot:


I expect Barcelona to win comfortably with a 2 goal margin at least

Arsenal are still several rungs below Bayern and barcelona

True. But there's a difference in the way Arsenal play top sides these days. Remember Bayern at the Emirates? I think they just need to improve on their mental strength

sleekdot:
^^ Thats your opinion and it doesnt make it right. Havent we seen people who claimed Joe Cole was better than Schweinsteiger or that Hazard was better than neymar

Same way we have seen people question the obvious fact that Boateng is a "big-for-nothing",mediocre CB

sleekdot:

Busquets protects the ball better and you can hardly strip him of possesion at worst he would dive to cover the ball

Busquets is over rated.

The Comparison even an insult to Alonso - na Pep cause all these sha.

Kudos to your manager for redefining possession Football..

sleekdot:

A double pivot is usually used in a 4-2-3-1 and the 2 ahead of the back 4 are the double pivot also called the doppelsechs

You are preaching to the choir bros..

sleekdot:


In what you call a double pivot one is usually the main DM and one the CM

Technically speaking, the CM could be the "other DM", depending on the kinda players in the pivot...

You cannot compare a matic/fabregas pivot to that of alonso/Mascherano, or Viera/Gilberto etc..

sleekdot:

In the Martinez-Schweinsteiger double pivot. Martinez was the DM Schweini was the CM

Yet we saw Alonso covering for injured CBs (and those caught outta position) on numerous occasions during his spells in England and Spain..

In Madrid, Kheidera was even more of the CM - Fact!

Dadehmola:


Same way we have seen people question the obvious fact that Boateng is a "big-for-nothing",mediocre CB

Team of the year nomination Boateng is also in contention. with his dominant displays at WOrld cup and CL finals. You can stay hating while Boatank continues dominating

Busquets is over rated.
The Comparison even an insult to Alonso - na Pep cause all these sha.
Kudos to your manager for redefining possession Football..

How a a DM who won 3 CL titles, 1 world cup and 1 Euro cup be overrated? If you check those titles I listed Busquets, Iniesta and Pique are the common denominator to all yet you still say Busquets and Pique are overrated. So who is properly rated?

Technically speaking, the CM could be the "other DM", depending on the kinda players in the pivot...

You cannot compare a matic/fabregas pivot to that of alonso/Mascherano, or Viera/Gilberto etc..

It can be another DM if the team is going to be ultra defensive

Yet we saw Alonso covering for injured CBs (and those caught outta position) on numerous occasions during his spells in England and Spain..
In Madrid, Kheidera was even more of the CM - Fact!

Anybody can cover for anyone in emergency situation, Didnt Carrick and Fletcher cover in Central defence?
Don't say it in public that Khedira was the CM, Khedira doesnt have the skillset to be a CM. His ball holding is average and his passes are below par

Players in training doing the cross bar challenge


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXRFA7wMuLM

hariorh:
True. But there's a difference in the way Arsenal play top sides these days. Remember Bayern at the Emirates? I think they just need to improve on their mental strength

You were extremely lucky at the Emirates especially if you remember the number of times Cech saved on Lewandoski and the go ahead goal was even a handball by Giroud

Do you think Suarez, Messi or Neymar would waste that many chances?

se na muller dem yeye like this? It was fun to watch.

sleekdot:


[s]Team of the year nomination Boateng is also in contention. with his dominant displays at WOrld cup and CL finals. You can stay hating while Boatank continues dominating [/s]

Boateng is shyte...

sleekdot:

How a a DM who won 3 CL titles, 1 world cup and 1 Euro cup be overrated? If you check those titles I listed Busquets, Iniesta and Pique are the common denominator to all yet you still say Busquets and Pique are overrated. So who is properly rated?

We have told you repeatedly that the system at Barca masks the deficiencies of many supposedly "defensive" players in the club...

Isn't it the same club where an average Joe like Abidal fitted in seamlessly at CB?? Even Javier Mascherano's performances at CB over the years have literally put the "We-need-to-replace-Puyol" thingy to bed.

sleekdot:

Anybody can cover for anyone in emergency situation, Didnt Carrick and Fletcher cover in Central defence?
Don't say it in public that Khedira was the CM, Khedira doesnt have the skillset to be a CM. His ball holding is average and his passes are below par

Alonso Played the deeper position in the pivot, with khedira licensed to join the attack when necessary..

If a Box-to-box Midfilder is paired with a deep-lying passer in a pivot, everyone knows who the furthest forward of the duo would be.

bleacherreport:


For several seasons, Xabi Alonso and Sami Khedira of Real Madrid have been regarded by many as world football's best double pivot in holding midfield.

Their movement in conjunction with each other—simultaneously shielding the back four from their midfield slots in Jose Mourinho's 4-2-3-1 formation—has been absolutely stunning, always shifting and protecting when necessary.

They find each other with ease, and while one can pick a pass, the other can surge forward with intent; both are defensively able and do a lot of hard work in front of Sergio Ramos and Co.

sleekdot:
Another example of a doible pivot is Dortmunds Bender-Gundogan

While Bender is the DM, Gundogan is the CM. Same thing with Chelsea Matic-Fabregas double pivot Matic is the DM Fabregas is the CM. When Arsenal play 4231 their double pivot is usually Coquelin-Cazorla. Coquelin is the DM Cazorla is the CM

Unlike Gundogan and Bastian you talked about, Fabregas & Cazorla players are not tasked with defensive duties, so the comparison doesn't cut it.

I think the Pivot in the 4-2-3-1 formation is grossly misunderstood and has been used inappropriately on numerous occasions..


These are the things expected of "doppelsechs"...

worldsoccerabout.com:


Defensive Midfielders in the 4-2-3-1 Formation



The 4-2-3-1 formation came to prominence in Spain in the 1990s and early 2000s and is now used by many teams throughout the world.

The two players in front of the back-four, known as the ‘doble pivot’ (double pivot) in Spain, give support to the defense, with one player breaking up opposition attacks, and the other putting more emphasis on distributing the ball to the attacking players.

It is imperative that the two players have positional sense in order to protect the back four properly. One of these two is generally more of a tackler, with the other concentrating on distribution. Having two players in front of the back four provides a platform on which the team’s more attacking players can create chances.

In that title-winning Valencia team, David Albelda and Ruben Baraja formed an excellent partnership. Albelda did much of the tackling, while Baraja was more offensive. The pair complimented each other superbly.

you probably forgot this important part in the quote you yourself posted earlier..

Dayo's quote:


Ideally, the two players swap their roles in the system of play time and time again, in order to become less predictable.

Going by this, it means that...at times, Matic goes to CM while Fab4 sits. Carzola also screens the back 4 while Coquelin ventures forward

Just when i thought Alonso's Role has been defined clearly enough..

worldsoccerabout.com:


Xabi Alonso is the perfect example of a player whose job it is to defend, but also to open up the opposition with his cultured range of passing.

Abidal an average joe? Jesus Christ of Okokomaiko

Dadehmola:
Unlike Gundogan and Bastian you talked about, Fabregas & Cazorla players are not tasked with defensive duties, so the comparison doesn't cut it.

I think the Pivot in the 4-2-3-1 formation is grossly misunderstood and has been used inappropriately on numerous occasions..

These are the things expected of "doppelsechs"...

you probably forgot this important part in the quote you yourself posted earlier..

Going by this, it means that...at times, Matic goes to CM while Fab4 sits. Carzola also screens the back 4 while Coquelin ventures forward

Just when i thought Alonso's Role has been defined clearly enough..

Who told you fabregas and Cazorla dont have defensive duties?

Dadehmola:
Boateng is shyte...

Keep repeating it maybe you would convince yourself. The people that matters rank him with the best in the business. which is why he was one of those selected for the team of the year

We have told you repeatedly that the system at Barca masks the deficiencies of many supposedly "defensive" players in the club...

Isn't it the same club where an average Joe like Abidal fitted in seamlessly at CB?? Even Javier Mascherano's performances at CB over the years have literally put the "We-need-to-replace-Puyol" thingy to bed.

Is it the Barca system that makes Spain too win? You keep saying its the system, Is it not players that make up the system? And Busquets in one of the key players in this so called system. Mascherano was a DM, how come he wasnt made to play DM over Busquets

Alonso Played the deeper position in the pivot, with khedira licensed to join the attack when necessary..

If a Box-to-box Midfilder is paired with a deep-lying passer in a pivot, everyone knows who the furthest forward of the duo would be.

The fact is that every single time in Alonso's career until he became old, slower and started playing DM , He always had a proper DM beside him whether its Mascherano, Hamman, Khedira or Busquets

sleekdot:


Who told you fabregas and Cazorla dont have defensive duties?

I dont think this kinda argument is necessary...

If you think Fabregas and Cazorla perform such duties, Goodluck to you!

sleekdot:

[s]Keep repeating it maybe you would convince yourself. The people that matters rank him with the best in the business. which is why he was one of those selected for the team of the year[/s]

Otu oshi ni Alago jare

sleekdot:

Is it the Barca system that makes Spain too win?

Yes, it is...

In the final matches of The 2010 Worldcup & Euro 2012, 7 Barca players started for Spain on both occasions..

sleekdot:

You keep saying its the system, Is it not players that make up the system? And Busquets in one of the key players in this so called system. Mascherano was a DM, how come he wasnt made to play DM over Busquets

That's because Macsherano was made to fill in at CB for Puyol, and ofcourse, Tiki-taka/ high pressing has masked the defensive frailties of the team. There was no need to fix what wasnt broken, afterall, they were getting away with it...

The more Pertinent Question should be ; Why have Barca been so successful, despite Starting the likes of Yaya Toure at CB in a UCL Final

sleekdot:

The fact is that every single time in Alonso's career until he became old, slower and started playing DM , He always had a proper DM beside him whether its Mascherano, Hamman, Khedira or Busquets

Nobody is disputing this...

What we are telling you is that his defensive abilities have always been part of his strengths and that you should stop calling him a CM - he has never really been one!