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Wrong And Sinful Ways Of Praying To God: Violent Prayers by Damdeyz(m): 7:31am On Jul 07, 2019
WRONG AND SINFUL WAYS IF PRAYING TO GOD. PART 3: VIOLENT PRAYERS. 5 mins read.

It is 1am. You lie atop your bed. You must have drifted into the third stage of sleep when, suddenly, you are jolted out of sleep by what seems like a shout.

You clutch your pillow, adrenaline courses through your veins, could someone be in trouble?

Slightly dazed, you begin to collect your senses. The sounds come again, this time you can make out what it is; the stamping of feet, the pounding of fists.

You let out a loud hiss, your next door neighbour is at it again. Her characteristical firebrand mode of prayer.

After three hours of rolling and tumbling, the wall-pounding and shouting dissipates. At last, you can sleep.

You lay back on your bed, close your eyes, but sleep eludes you. It is 4am now. Your eyes remain wide open till dawn. Another head-aching day from a sleepless night given to you by your prayer warrior neighbour.

The anecdote above is a description of the everyday occurrence that happens when devout Christians hold vigils at the expense their neighbours' peace. In a bid to receive peace from the Creator, they distort the peace of His creation.

To most people, the above mode of prayer seems perfectly okay, but from a logical standpoint— the logic of distorting somebody else’s peace— one can see its flaw.

Ultimately, the final truth about this can be found in the Bible.

This article talks about what the Bible says concerning violent prayers. Most Christians believe in, and practice violent prayers and so the author knows the article may raise a lot of dust, but implores the avid truth seeker to cast aside preconceived beliefs and study the verses from the Bible that will be used in this article objectively.

Why is violent prayer erroneous?

1) It is contrary to what Jesus taught about prayer.

Matthew 6:5-6
And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

Here, Jesus taught His disciples that "prayer for show" was unacceptable to GOD. Furthermore, the next verse then details the mode of prayer GOD loves from an individual; a prayer in secret.

The verse explains what it means to pray in secret, that is, to shut one's door, go into one's closet and pray to one's GOD. When one has done this, one has prayed in secret and GOD would reward such a one.

What if one were to shut the door, yet pray so loudly and so raucously, so that his next-door-neighbour were to hear all the spiritual missiles launched at his enemies alongside the accompanying noise of the banging of fists and stamping of feet?

Would that fit the description of a secret prayer according to Jesus' words in the Bible?

So why do so many people who proclaim that they are Christians pray "violent-non-secret" prayers?

Next week, we shall go into more detailed examples of violent prayers in the Bible, looking at more Bible verses that contradict violent prayers.

By the time you might have read the article in its entirety with all its parts, you will have a perfect understanding of the erroneousness of praying violently.
Happy Sunday.

GOD bless you.

To be continued...

1 Share

Re: Wrong And Sinful Ways Of Praying To God: Violent Prayers by malvisguy212: 8:13am On Jul 07, 2019
the effectual FERVENT prayer of the righteous availeth much.
Re: Wrong And Sinful Ways Of Praying To God: Violent Prayers by hopefulLandlord: 8:16am On Jul 07, 2019
Reading
Re: Wrong And Sinful Ways Of Praying To God: Violent Prayers by CAPSLOCKED: 8:51am On Jul 07, 2019
EVEN IN PRAYING YOU COMMIT SIN? WOW. THIS DELUSION WILL NOT END ANYTIME SOON IT SEEMS.
Re: Wrong And Sinful Ways Of Praying To God: Violent Prayers by greencard: 9:47am On Jul 07, 2019
CAPSLOCKED:
EVEN IN PRAYING YOU COMMIT SIN? WOW. THIS DELUSION WILL NOT END ANYTIME SOON IT SEEMS.
why are you always obsessed with christain topics and discuss, are u troubled as a kid?
Re: Wrong And Sinful Ways Of Praying To God: Violent Prayers by Tajbol4splend(m): 11:21am On Jul 07, 2019
In those Futa days, everyone used to speak in tongues, there was hardly any corner you would enter you wouldn't find them there
Re: Wrong And Sinful Ways Of Praying To God: Violent Prayers by Damdeyz(m): 7:30pm On Jul 07, 2019
malvisguy212:
the effectual FERVENT prayer of the righteous availeth much.
I don't want to misunderstand you because your comment is not direct. But if I presume correctly, when you say FERVENT, do you mean to imply it as VIOLENCE? If so, I would have you know that the word FERVENT in James 5:16 doesn't mean violence. But to pray consistently and with conviction. And of course, a Christian can pray with conviction without resorting to praying violently.
Re: Wrong And Sinful Ways Of Praying To God: Violent Prayers by Damdeyz(m): 7:33pm On Jul 07, 2019
hopefulLandlord:
Reading
Thanks for your attention. Please stay tuned for the follow-up article next week Sunday. You can also read preceding articles on erroneous practices in prayer to get an in-depth knowledge of the origin of these series of articles
Re: Wrong And Sinful Ways Of Praying To God: Violent Prayers by Magnoliaa(f): 7:35pm On Jul 07, 2019
malvisguy212:
the effectual FERVENT prayer of the righteous availeth much.

Fervent... what is a fervent prayer? Is what the OP described one?

1 Like

Re: Wrong And Sinful Ways Of Praying To God: Violent Prayers by Magnoliaa(f): 7:36pm On Jul 07, 2019
greencard:
why are you always obsessed with christain topics and discuss, are u troubled as a kid?

grin It amaze me!
Re: Wrong And Sinful Ways Of Praying To God: Violent Prayers by Damdeyz(m): 7:36pm On Jul 07, 2019
Tajbol4splend:
In those Futa days, everyone used to speak in tongues, there was hardly any corner you would enter you wouldn't find them there

Most times we absorb everything we learn hook, line and sinker without verifying. Just because something has been around for decades doesn't make it right. One man's error causes so many to sin. One man can also correct that error and cause so many to come on the right path.
Thanks for reading. More articles will follow soon.
Re: Wrong And Sinful Ways Of Praying To God: Violent Prayers by malvisguy212: 8:11pm On Jul 07, 2019
Magnoliaa:


Fervent... what is a fervent prayer? Is what the OP described one?
the Greek word for fervent is 'energeo ' which is energy in our English word, is like an electric current that bring energy to a circuit . it mean a persistent , heartfelt, passionate , bold aproach to God, Example is in Matthew 15:22:

Matthew 15:22, "And, behold, a woman of
Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried
unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord,
thou Son of David; my
daughter is grievously vexed with a devil."

this is a gentile woman, who comes for help, and what did Jesus do ? Jesus ignore her.


Matthew 15:23-26, "But he answered her not a
word. And his disciples came and besought him,
saying, SEND HER AWAY; FOR SHE CRIETH
AFTER US. But he answered and said, I am not
sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Then came she and worshipped him, saying,
Lord, HELP ME. But he answered and said, It is
not meet to take the children's bread, and to
cast it to dogs."

he ignored her, and secondly He insult her, “This is not for you, you dog! This is for the children. You Gentiles are not in that category of God's children.BUT SHE KEEP ON PRESSING ON:

Matthew 15:27, "And she said, Truth, Lord: yet
the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their
masters' table."

This woman continued to persist in the argument. And what happened?

Matthew 15:28, "Then Jesus answered and said
unto her, O woman, GREAT IS THY FAITH : be it
unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter
was made whole from that very hour."

What's he talking about? He's talking about her
boldness, her persistence, her drive, her energy,
her willingness to hang in there and not give up on her daughter's sake.

Cc Damdeyz

2 Likes

Re: Wrong And Sinful Ways Of Praying To God: Violent Prayers by malvisguy212: 8:17pm On Jul 07, 2019
Damdeyz:

Thanks for your attention. Please stay tuned for the follow-up article next week Sunday. You can also read preceding articles on erroneous practices in prayer to get an in-depth knowledge of the origin of these series of articles
the friend you quote is an atheist ( son of perdition) if he say something ash, ignored him. thank you
Re: Wrong And Sinful Ways Of Praying To God: Violent Prayers by Trizyd(m): 8:26pm On Jul 07, 2019
Here an account in Hebrews 5 showing at some point Jesus was "violent" with his prayer Emphasis Hebrew 5:7

Hebrews 5:5 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.
5:6 As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
5:7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;

Meaning Jesus prayed with forcible outcry, don't mislead people to feel that praying violently isn't Biblical, we can pray with softly. Your account in Matthew was Jesus admonishing us not to be hypocritical in prayer, proving we are the most righteous.

Matthew 11:12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.
Re: Wrong And Sinful Ways Of Praying To God: Violent Prayers by Damdeyz(m): 12:41am On Jul 08, 2019
malvisguy212:
the Greek word for fervent is 'energeo ' which is energy in our English word, is like an electric current that bring energy to a circuit . it mean a persistent , heartfelt, passionate , bold aproach to God, Example is in Matthew 15:22:

Matthew 15:22, "And, behold, a woman of
Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried
unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord,
thou Son of David; my
daughter is grievously vexed with a devil."

this is a gentile woman, who comes for help, and what did Jesus do ? Jesus ignore her.


Matthew 15:23-26, "But he answered her not a
word. And his disciples came and besought him,
saying, SEND HER AWAY; FOR SHE CRIETH
AFTER US. But he answered and said, I am not
sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Then came she and worshipped him, saying,
Lord, HELP ME. But he answered and said, It is
not meet to take the children's bread, and to
cast it to dogs."

he ignored her, and secondly He insult her, “This is not for you, you dog! This is for the children. You Gentiles are not in that category of God's children.BUT SHE KEEP ON PRESSING ON:

Matthew 15:27, "And she said, Truth, Lord: yet
the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their
masters' table."

This woman continued to persist in the argument. And what happened?

Matthew 15:28, "Then Jesus answered and said
unto her, O woman, GREAT IS THY FAITH : be it
unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter
was made whole from that very hour."

What's he talking about? He's talking about her
boldness, her persistence, her drive, her energy,
her willingness to hang in there and not give up on her daughter's sake.

Cc Damdeyz
You've said it well Magnoliaa. Thanks for putting it in a better perspective using the verse and its explanation.
Re: Wrong And Sinful Ways Of Praying To God: Violent Prayers by Damdeyz(m): 1:59am On Jul 08, 2019
Trizyd:
Here an account in Hebrews 5 showing at some point Jesus was "violent" with his prayer Emphasis Hebrew 5:7

Hebrews 5:5 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.
5:6 As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
5:7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;

Meaning Jesus prayed with forcible outcry, don't mislead people to feel that praying violently isn't Biblical, we can pray with softly. Your account in Matthew was Jesus admonishing us not to be hypocritical in prayer, proving we are the most righteous.

Matthew 11:12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.


Trizyd From the comment you made above I can deduce three points that demonstrate your objection to the article. I will enumerate these three points and then attempt to address them. Most of the answers would have been made known in subsequent articles however, since you've asked questions that prompt me to provide answers, I will do so nonetheless.

1) Hebrew 5:4 supports the notion that Jesus prayed violent prayers
2) You quoted Matthew 11:12 about the Kingdom suffering violence, meaning violent prayers
3) You say that Matthew 6:5-6 talks about hypocritical prayers not violent prayers.

I know attempt to answer your questions.

1) Hebrews 5
Talks about the mortal nature of Jesus Christ, how He could suffer affliction peculiar to man and how He prayed also. Verse 7 says he CRIED and SHOUTED when he prayed. I'd have you know that this only happened on the cross and not while he prayed at other times before his crucifixion. Let's look at some verses.

Matthew 26:39
Going on a little farther, he fell on his face and prayed, “O my Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from me. Yet not what I want but what you want.”

Mark 14:35
on a little farther, he fell to the ground and kept praying that if it were possible the hour might pass from him.

Luke 22:44
In his anguish he prayed more earnestly, and his sweat became like large drops of blood falling on the ground.
In all these verses quoted, you cannot see an example of Christ praying violently, although Luke 22:44 says His sweat were like drops of blood, it didn't say He prayed violently. But here He sweated so much because he was in anguish and burdened greatly, not because he was praying violently. These verses didn't say he shed tears or he cried out loud.

So where did Jesus cry out loud and shed tears according to the Hebrew writer? He did this on the cross. Let's see

Matthew 27:46
About three o’clock, Jesus cried out with a loud voice, “Eli, eli, lema sabachthani?”, which means, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”
Verse 50
Then Jesus cried out with a loud voice again and died.

So you see that the book of Hebrews is talking about the pains He faced on the cross that caused Him to shed tears and to cry out loud. Psalm 22:1 says He groaned. Jesus cried out loud due to pains he felt. Just the way Stephen cried out in Acts 7:50 before death.
Hebrews chapter 5:6 is in no way supporting violent prayers. It is in no way pointing out that Jesus Christ shouted or prayed violently during His ministry or during times of prayer before His crucifixion. Hebrew 5:6 solely and only talks about His 'cry' on the cross, not elsewhere.

Permit me to stop here for today. Tomorrow I shall address your second question: the Kingdom of Heaven suffers violence. Thank you for your time and attention.

1 Like

Re: Wrong And Sinful Ways Of Praying To God: Violent Prayers by Goshen360(m): 5:51am On Jul 08, 2019
malvisguy212:
the Greek word for fervent is 'energeo ' which is energy in our English word, is like an electric current that bring energy to a circuit . it mean a persistent , heartfelt, passionate , bold aproach to God, Example is in Matthew 15:22:

Matthew 15:22, "And, behold, a woman of
Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried
unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord,
thou Son of David; my
daughter is grievously vexed with a devil."

this is a gentile woman, who comes for help, and what did Jesus do ? Jesus ignore her.


Matthew 15:23-26, "But he answered her not a
word. And his disciples came and besought him,
saying, SEND HER AWAY; FOR SHE CRIETH
AFTER US. But he answered and said, I am not
sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Then came she and worshipped him, saying,
Lord, HELP ME. But he answered and said, It is
not meet to take the children's bread, and to
cast it to dogs."

he ignored her, and secondly He insult her, “This is not for you, you dog! This is for the children. You Gentiles are not in that category of God's children.BUT SHE KEEP ON PRESSING ON:

Matthew 15:27, "And she said, Truth, Lord: yet
the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their
masters' table."

This woman continued to persist in the argument. And what happened?

Matthew 15:28, "Then Jesus answered and said
unto her, O woman, GREAT IS THY FAITH : be it
unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter
was made whole from that very hour."

What's he talking about? He's talking about her
boldness, her persistence, her drive, her energy,
her willingness to hang in there and not give up on her daughter's sake.

Cc Damdeyz

I have been here for years and I've seen religious people quote Bible verse as if ENGLISH interpret Bible....no it doesn't....HEBREW AND GREEK interpret Bible.... THANKS FOR THAT LITTLE EXEGESIS
Re: Wrong And Sinful Ways Of Praying To God: Violent Prayers by malvisguy212: 7:26am On Jul 08, 2019
Goshen360:


I have been here for years and I've seen religious people quote Bible verse as if ENGLISH interpret Bible....no it doesn't....HEBREW AND GREEK interpret Bible.... THANKS FOR THAT LITTLE EXEGESIS
longest time Sir, trust you are alright. good to here from you again.

1 Like

Re: Wrong And Sinful Ways Of Praying To God: Violent Prayers by Goshen360(m): 7:35am On Jul 08, 2019
malvisguy212:
longest time Sir, trust you are alright. good to here from you again.

I'm fine and just peep in every now and then

1 Like

Re: Wrong And Sinful Ways Of Praying To God: Violent Prayers by Goshen360(m): 2:09pm On Jul 08, 2019
malvisguy212:
longest time Sir, trust you are alright. good to here from you again.

I'm fine my brother
Re: Wrong And Sinful Ways Of Praying To God: Violent Prayers by malvisguy212: 8:21pm On Jul 09, 2019
Damdeyz:

You've said it well Magnoliaa. Thanks for putting it in a better perspective using the verse and its explanation.
you're welcome. God bless

1 Like

Re: Wrong And Sinful Ways Of Praying To God: Violent Prayers by Kobojunkie: 6:00pm On Apr 01, 2023
malvisguy212:
■ the effectual FERVENT prayer of the righteous availeth much.
1. The keyword in that is righteous. In order to obtain answers from God, one must first be righteous. This is because God does not answer the prayers of the unrighteous; not even their prayers seeking forgiveness are answered by God. undecided
Re: Wrong And Sinful Ways Of Praying To God: Violent Prayers by Kobojunkie: 6:04pm On Apr 01, 2023
Damdeyz:
■ I don't want to misunderstand you because your comment is not direct. But if I presume correctly, when you say FERVENT, do you mean to imply it as VIOLENCE? If so, I would have you know that the word FERVENT in James 5:16 doesn't mean violence. But to pray consistently and with conviction. And of course, a Christian can pray with conviction without resorting to praying violently.
You are focused on the wrong thing here is what. What availeth much is not the manner of the prayer but the righteousness of the person saying the prayer. According to Jesus Christ, all things whatsoever you ask, BELIEVING, you shall receive. Now, believing is more than just mental ascent of course as it instead points to whether one belongs to God or not i.e righteous or unrighteous. undecided
Re: Wrong And Sinful Ways Of Praying To God: Violent Prayers by Kobojunkie: 6:20am On Apr 03, 2023
Trizyd:
■ Here an account in Hebrews 5 showing at some point Jesus was "violent" with his prayer Emphasis Hebrew 5:7
Meaning Jesus prayed with forcible outcry, don't mislead people to feel that praying violently isn't Biblical, we can pray with softly. Your account in Matthew was Jesus admonishing us not to be hypocritical in prayer, proving we are the most righteous.
Matthew 11:12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.
1. But Jesus Christ never said that praying in such a manner is what moves God to answer one, did He? He never said that it matters what mood or temperament your prayers are offered in. God, the one who answers our prayers, said He does not answer the prayers of the unrighteous — not even our prayers of forgiveness reach His ears so long as we remain steeped in sin. Jesus Christ affirmed this teaching when He proclaimed that His love belongs only to those who do the will of the Father — the righteous— and these happen to be those who live their lives in continuous submission to the teachings and commandments of Jesus Christ and have the Spirit of Truth abiding on the inside of them, as a result of having become holy and worthy vessels for God's own Spirit to inhabit. undecided
Re: Wrong And Sinful Ways Of Praying To God: Violent Prayers by Kobojunkie: 6:43pm On Apr 04, 2023
Damdeyz:
■ Trizyd From the comment you made above I can deduce three points that demonstrate your objection to the article. I will enumerate these three points and then attempt to address them. Most of the answers would have been made known in subsequent articles however since you've asked questions that prompt me to provide answers, I will do so nonetheless.

1) Hebrew 5:4 supports the notion that Jesus prayed violent prayers
2) You quoted Matthew 11:12 about the Kingdom suffering violence, meaning violent prayers
3) You say that Matthew 6:5-6 talks about hypocritical prayers not violent prayers.
■ Talks about the mortal nature of Jesus Christ, how He could suffer affliction peculiar to man and how He prayed also. Verse 7 says he CRIED and SHOUTED when he prayed. I'd have you know that this only happened on the cross and not while he prayed at other times before his crucifixion. Let's look at some verses. So where did Jesus cry out loud and shed tears according to the Hebrew writer? He did this on the cross. Let's see...
So you see that the book of Hebrews is talking about the pains He faced on the cross that caused Him to shed tears and to cry out loud. Psalm 22:1 says He groaned. Jesus cried out loud due to pains he felt. Just the way Stephen cried out in Acts 7:50 before death.
Hebrews chapter 5:6 is in no way supporting violent prayers. It is in no way pointing out that Jesus Christ shouted or prayed violently during His ministry or during times of prayer before His crucifixion. Hebrew 5:6 solely and only talks about His 'cry' on the cross, not elsewhere.
Permit me to stop here for today. Tomorrow I shall address your second question: the Kingdom of Heaven suffers violence. Thank you for your time and attention.
1. Jesus Christ may have on one or more occasions prayed violently, but Jesus Christ never commanded His followers to pray violently — and He made clear that those who love Him — His friends— are those who obey His teachings and His commandments, not those who mimic Him, so of what good is it mimicking Jesus Christ when that does not guarantee anything nor does one honor God by such ritual? undecided

2. The sole reason God answered the prayers of Jesus Christ, and that of all other men indicated in Scripture has to do with one thing and one thing only. It was not the manner — violent or gentle— in which they prayed to God nor did it have to do with the motives behind their prayers. It did not even matter what position the one praying was in while praying to God— standing, sitting, lying down, rolling on the floor, etc. It had simply to do with one fact shared by all the men indicated and that is that they were all righteous men of God. God said He only answers all— not some — of the prayers of the righteous, and He does that with delight too. Of the unrighteous however, God said that He does not answer any of their petitions, not even their requests for forgiveness reach Him because the prayers of the unrighteous are an abomination to God. Righteousness is the key to obtaining answers to prayers from God; God does not answer any of the prayers of a man who is a servant of sin. undecided

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