Ostrogoth:


Yes. I think both of them should just work together to coordinate all yorubas and take the initiative from quislings like tinubu.

That's an ideal situation. But you know the constitution does not give them such powers and they're expected to be apolitical. Thus peeps like tinubu can relate on a stomach infrastructure level to penetrate market women, artisans and other socio-political groups. However on such a common matter like dis herdsmen issue, it seems the two foremost kings agree on the message, but do not agree on how it's being delivered. I didn't expect a letter from alaafin on the matter to be filled with such high sounding self-cognisance esp off the back of Ooni's visit to aso rock

seborrhic:

Ok,but why do Kwarans see themselves more affiliated to the North than Yorubaland?
Even Saraki and his father before then didn't really allign with the Yorubas as such.

Saraki is from Ilorin. Is your flat head too thick to have sense?

FemiMaduka:


Thank you for the well intentioned retort. However, Oduduwa, the progenitor of the Yoruba race sat on the throne of Ile-Ife [the cradle of the Yoruba nation], while his sons and their descendants spread afar, founded new areas [including Oyo-Ile] and ruled. Oyo rose to prominence because it grew to become a powerful empire. Same for Ibadan [which was for a long time a domain of the Oyo Empire -- just like Ilorin was an outstation for Afonja who was Alaafin's general].

The status of Ile-Ife [the nucleus of the Yoruba people] and that of whoever sits supreme on its throne has never been in doubt. Oyo, no matter how big and influential it becomes, will always be a 'station' of the cradle -- Ile-Ife. And the father [Oduduwa, the first ruler of Ile-Ife] will always be first in time to the Son and have rule over the latter.

Thanks for the additional insight. That's why I said Ife has maximum respect in yorubaland as the father of all. Oyo is like the proverbial son who became strong but still dares not look his father in the eye!

Buckubuck:

That's an ideal situation. But you know the constitution does not give them such powers and they're expected to be apolitical. Thus peeps like tinubu can relate on a stomach infrastructure level to penetrate market women, artisans and other socio-political groups. However on such a common matter like dis herdsmen issue, it seems the two foremost kings agree on the message, but do not agree on how it's being delivered. I didn't expect a letter from alaafin on the matter to be filled with such high sounding self-cognisance esp off the back of Ooni's visit to aso rock

Let me even bring in this nuance: methinks the Alaafin was only prompted to write a letter because of the visit of the Oonirisa to Aso Rock and the position accorded him. So, for the discerning minds, it is quite obvious the real import of the letter is the issue bordering on superiority -- not even the insecurity conundrum; c'mon, it is very obvious in the letter, though attempts were made to obfuscate it.

The colonial Masters [Britain] duly recognized the stool of the Ooni to be antecedent and superior to that of the Alaafin, that is why you can find allusions to 'pre-colonial head...' in the letter. History, mythology and logic does not support the Alaafin's claim to superiority. The son is never superior to the father.

Buhari is the reason for this herdsmen rampage.. He told them he's there moses that will take them to the promise land....All this fulani herdsmen nonsense wasn't like this even in Jonathan's regime.. Every1 dey go lagos freely then but now Every1 is afraid travelling to lagos by car.. Buhari gave this herdsmen d drugs that they are high on right now..

FemiMaduka:


Let me even bring in this nuance: methinks the Alaafin was only prompted to write a letter because of the visit of the Oonirisa to Aso Rock and the position accorded him. So, for the discerning minds, it is quite obvious the real import of the letter is the issue bordering on superiority -- not even the insecurity conundrum; c'mon, it is very obvious in the letter, though attempts were made to obfuscate it.

The colonial Masters [Britain] duly recognized the stool of the Ooni to be antecedent and superior to that of the Alaafin, that is why you can find allusions to 'pre-colonial head...' in the letter. History, mythology and logic does not support the Alaafin's claim to superiority. The son is never superior to the father.

History actually supports alaafin as the first king in Yoruba culture. Ooni as Ostrogoth highlighted was not a king in the real sense initially, he was like a chief priest. But it is also trite that a progenitor should be ahead of a political head.
This same scenario is playing out with Tinubu's case and that of the kings. He sees himself as the political leader of Yorubas which means the kings are subordinate to him.

OlujobaSamuel:

Have you also turned a bubu family that you can't understand a simple short statement?

abeg live bubu alone

Nanop1:
Buhari is the reason for this herdsmen rampage.. He told them he's there moses that will take them to the promise land....All this fulani herdsmen nonsense wasn't like this even in Jonathan's regime.. Every1 dey go lagos freely then but now Every1 is afraid travelling to lagos by car.. Buhari gave this herdsmen d drugs that they are high on right now..

abeg where is d promised land

your newly born scorpion king which traces of Uranium technology is abducting human beigns and using them for alchemical nuclear tests mainly for building electric ach software to do telegraphic transfers or wire transfers in black Africa below... I wonder what he is trying to achieve... Absolute power really corrupts absolutely.

The nuclear that was buried in my belly during my primary school days he is trying to ach it out. Help me ask him what he is trying to do I am not a lab rat. I have just broken a teeth yesterday night at 37 years. Can you imagine that?

johnmartus:
If security arrest Atiku, Odumakin peter Obi and co.you will be the first person to accuse the president of trying to eliminate opposition.

Why would security arrest the only voices helping Nigerians to keep the tyrant in Abuja in check and you expect the masses to applaud you?

This one wants to be invited to Ask Rock like Ooni of Ife. They pretend to blow hot in their domain, but when they come face-to-face with Buhari they start acting like a dog with tail between its legs.

The other day I could see how the Ooni was acting like a coward before Buhari - his body language and post-meeting press statement was so disappointing. Nigeria's so-called royal fathers are equally part of the problem in that country. Just like during the slave trade era, many of them keep enriching themselves at the expense of their people. Shame!!

Bodija100:
This one wants to be invited to Ask Rock like Ooni of Ife. They pretend to blow hot in their domain, but when they come face-to-face with Buhari they start acting like a dog with tail between its legs.

The other day I could see how the Ooni was acting like a coward before Buhari - his body language and post-meeting press statement was so disappointing. Nigeria's so-called royal fathers are equally part of the problem in that country. Just like during the slave trade era, many of them keep enriching themselves at the expense of their people. Shame!!

Which is why I think alaafin spoke up. Note that ooni replaced "Fulani herdsmen" with "strange people" which was kind of depressing. Alaafin has reintroduced the original culprits back into the conversation with his letter. This is why i suspect it might be due to the cowing nature of the messenger that pushed alaafin to send another message. Of course he has to lay claim to leadership or superiority to the initial messenger for his message to be legitimate

holicupp:




abeg where is d promised land

Nigeria naaaa in the form of RUGA

MayorofLagos:


I will appreciate that you talk kindly of my King.

He deserves no respect. When an elder behaves like a child, he is then regarded with littke dignity

AntiBalaka:
Any topic that exposes fulani occupation of Afonja land will never make FP.

This should tell you who now owns NL.

Can u just shut up? Now, the news is on FP, what wil u do?

Buckubuck:

History actually supports alaafin as the first king in Yoruba culture. Ooni as Ostrogoth highlighted was not a king in the real sense initially, he was like a chief priest. But it is also trite that a progenitor should be ahead of a political head.
This same scenario is playing out with Tinubu's case and that of the kings. He sees himself as the political leader of Yorubas which means the kings are subordinate to him.

Not exactly so sir. Oduduwa was the first leader [political and spiritual] of the Yoruba people and every Yoruba king traces his origin and authority to Oduduwa. In fact, in Yoruba mythology, it is believed that Olodumare [God, the almighty] sent Oduduwa to earth and that he landed in Ife via the aid of a chain and started life [human existence] there. This may be ridiculous and run contrariwise to the 'Adam and Even' version in the Abrahamic narration. However, it is what Yoruba mythology says and it has to be respected.

The Ooni sits directly on the throne of Oduduwa. In those days, supreme leaders [Kings] were a hybrid of king [political] and deity [spiritual].

Let's even avoid long narratives, see this: the Alaafin is referred to as 'Igbakeji orisa', to wit, the second-in-command to the deity. On the other hand, the Ooni is referred to as 'Ooni orisa' or "Ooni'risa", to wit, the deity himself. It is pretty clear sir. Well, let us not be ignorant of the fact that controversy and power go hand-in-hand, so the ego contest is not altogether unusual.

FemiMaduka:


Not exactly so sir. Oduduwa was the first leader [political and spiritual] of the Yoruba people and every Yoruba king traces his origin and authority to Oduduwa. The Ooni sits directly on the throne of Oduduwa. In those days, supreme leaders [Kings] were a hybrid of king [political] and deity [spiritual].

Let's even avoid long narratives, see this: the Alaafin is referred to as 'Igbakeji orisa', to wit, the second-in-command to the deity. On the other hand, the Ooni is referred to as 'Ooni orisa' or "Ooni'risa", to wit, the deity himself. It is pretty clear sir. Well, let us not be ignorant of the fact that controversy and power go hand-in-hand, so the ego contest is not altogether unusual.

I like your use of words. Moses was the first political and spiritual leader of Israelites. Saul is the first King of Israel. They are the same function but different titles. Alaafin is the first king in Yorubaland. It is not debatable. He is the first to wear a crown as King and have a recognized palace as such. You'll note the words the Alaafin used to describe himself. The pre-colonial head: Oyo was the largest Yoruba empire before the british came; King and head: He's using his position as first King to claim headship of Yorubas. More importantly, I suspect he feels the Ooni chickened out in Aso rock, that's why he feels he need to take the mantle to express things as they are.

FemiMaduka:
I am with the Alaafin on this. However, the Alaafin should quit this superiority contest with the arole Odu'a -- The Ooni. The Alaafin is not the head of the Yoruba nation, the Ooni is. To start with, in Yoruba mythology, the Ooni is considered a deity -- Orisa [not just an emperor]; so there is not really any point for comparison.

Opportune submission though.

@bolded

That is not the point here, Mr Maduka

Ooni spoke like a coward. Alaafin cannot do the same. Thank God we have both of them...

Ostrogoth:

Thanks for the additional insight. That's why I said Ife has maximum respect in yorubaland as the father of all. Oyo is like the proverbial son who became strong but still dares not look his father in the eye!

There's no question about ALAAFIN'Ss superiority. Yoruba speaks ALAAFIN's language. ALAAFIN is of the only royal blood known to the Yoruba nation; The Oduduwa dynasty, the one whom Oonirisa's father served as a chief priest and thereafter left as a custodian of the throne after the princes have established their kingdom's.

ALAAFIN's father has never been anybody's slave - Oyo o seru Baba eni kan.

In Yorubaland and world over, you are either a royalty or a commoner. Royalty is only bequeathed by BIRTH or MARRIAGE. If you are not born into the Oduduwa family or married them, you are a commoner.

Royalties in Yoruba land is derived from Oduduwa from whom ALAAFIN inherited the land- ALAAFIN lo nile.

Buckubuck:

I like your use of words. Moses was the first political and spiritual leader of Israelites. Saul is the first King of Israel. They are the same function but different titles. Alaafin is the first king in Yorubaland. It is not debatable. He is the first to wear a crown as King and have a recognized palace as such. You'll note the words the Alaafin used to describe himself. The pre-colonial head: Oyo was the largest Yoruba empire before the british came; King and head: He's using his position as first King to claim headship of Yorubas. More importantly, I suspect he feels the Ooni chickened out in Aso rock, that's why he feels he need to take the mantle to express things as they are.

@bolded

Thank you, my brother.

Both Ooni and Alaafin cannot behave the same way when they meet Buhari. The Ooni showed himself to be a young man. Alaafin is proving to be an elder.

Buckubuck:

I like your use of words. Moses was the first political and spiritual leader of Israelites. Saul is the first King of Israel. They are the same function but different titles. Alaafin is the first king in Yorubaland. It is not debatable. He is the first to wear a crown as King and have a recognized palace as such. You'll note the words the Alaafin used to describe himself. The pre-colonial head: Oyo was the largest Yoruba empire before the british came; King and head: He's using his position as first King to claim headship of Yorubas. More importantly, I suspect he feels the Ooni chickened out in Aso rock, that's why he feels he need to take the mantle to express things as they are.

Well, the first Alaafin of Oyo was Oranmiyan [an Ife prince -- Son of the Ooni]. Ajaka succeeded Oranmiyan as the second Alaafin. An Ife prince founded Oyo -- it was founded during an expedition.

The authority [which the Ife prince Oranmiyan -- son of the Ooni -- exercised] derived directly from Ife. No matter how influential a son becomes, he can't predate his father, ditto his father's throne.

P.S.: the authority that a king wields is in the throne [not in personam]. Even if we are to go with the argument of the Alaafin camp that the forebear of the occupants of the Ooni-ship was a 'priest' to the original Ooni [Oduduwa]. Well, then it follows commonsensically that the Alaafin cannot be sitting on an inferior throne [the 'Alaafin-ship'] and still claim superiority. Ile-Ife is the nucleus [root, origin, epicenter etc.] of the Yoruba race, and whoever sits directly on the throne of Oduduwa IN ILE-IFE naturally reigns supreme in Yorubaland.

Kano may be the most important emirate in the caliphate, the rural and rustic Sokoto remains the seat of the caliphate irregardless.

Andhominem:


@bolded

Thank you, my brother.

Both Ooni and Alaafin cannot behave the same way when they meet Buhari. The Ooni showed himself to be a young man. Alaafin is proving to be an elder.

Besides, Ooni, has some shady deals around his neck, which may be the reason he was scared to run his mouth. Remember the governor of his state is APC. They could bring some things up to embarrass him if he showed too much brinksmanship.

FemiMaduka:


Well, the first Alaafin of Oyo was Oranmiyan [an Ife prince -- Son of the Ooni]. Ajaka succeeded Oranmiyan as the second Alaafin. An Ife prince founded Oyo -- it was founded during an expedition.

The authority [which the Ife prince Oranmiyan -- son of the Ooni -- exercised] derived directly from Ife. No matter how influential a son becomes, he can't predate his father, ditto his father's throne.

Like I said before, you're still alluding to the same thing. Oduduwa was never referred to as a King. He was instead revered as a god. Which is why his title is Oonirisa (Eni orisa). Compare that to Oba of Benin or Alaafin of Oyo. These two wear crowned and beaded as Kings outright which was why they had a monarchical system in place.

Capital F** the alaafin. If it was fulani herdsmen that u saw raping and kidnaping your people, why didnt u arrest them to face justice. Dont disturb our president with nonsense unsubstantiated rumours jor. Everybody wants to make name by accusing the herdsmen of every unimaginable crime out there. A useless local "king" wants to warn an elected president and commander in chief. Buhari will not do anything about it king, not because he is wicked, but because your accusations against the herdsmen are totally baseless lacking any evidence, plus dont you have police dpo and police commisioner in your domain? And if u try any shitzzz, you will know the difference between federal government and local traditional authority, between president and commander in chief and local traditional king, between the armed forces and local militia. Report your case to the police and stop filling our ears with rumours of fulani siege of your place

Buckubuck:


Like I said before, you're still alluding to the same thing. Oduduwa was never referred to as a King. He was instead revered as a god. Which is why his title is Oonirisa (Eni orisa). Compare that to Oba of Benin or Alaafin of Oyo. These two wear crowned and beaded as Kings outright which was why they had a monarchical system in place.

.

We are saying the same thing. There is no basis for comparison [which the Alaafin has been doing for decades now]: Ooni is a god/deity, while the Alaafin is a mortal [a descendant of the Ooni Oduduwa].

No King, Alaafin, Alake, Oba etc., should even dare look in the face of the Ooni'risa. They are in different cosmos.

Bodija100:
This one wants to be invited to Ask Rock like Ooni of Ife. They pretend to blow hot in their domain, but when they come face-to-face with Buhari they start acting like a dog with tail between its legs.

The other day I could see how the Ooni was acting like a coward before Buhari - his body language and post-meeting press statement was so disappointing. Nigeria's so-called royal fathers are equally part of the problem in that country. Just like during the slave trade era, many of them keep enriching themselves at the expense of their people. Shame!!

shoe get size... seniority dey for ogboni... Buhari is the ooni or oba of nigeria officially and english is our language...

Andhominem:


@bolded

That is not the point here, Mr Maduka

Ooni spoke like a coward. Alaafin cannot do the same. Thank God we have both of them...

You shouldn't be ignorant of the animosity between the Alaafin and the Ooni. It has been going on for decades. The Ooni has always been accorded the post of 'numero uno' -- even by the colonial masters -- and this has always angered the Alaafin. We aren't discussing the face-value message of the letter. I think you are actually the one not on the same page with the discussion that was stirred up.

FemiMaduka:
.

We are saying the same thing. There is no basis for comparison [which the Alaafin has been doing for decades now]: Ooni is a god/deity, while the Alaafin is a mortal [a descendant of the Ooni Oduduwa].

No King, Alaafin, Alake, Oba etc., should even dare look in the face of the Ooni'risa. They are in different cosmos.

A priest is not a king. A king wears a crown, has a staff of office, beads and a council to boot. I don't know where you got the inferiority of Alaafin from. He heads the greatest Empire in Yoruba history so, how come he is inferior. When the Alaafin held sway, they had a non-aggression pact with Ife but did not defer to Ooni in any way. The Oyo kingdom was ruled by the Alaafin without any deference or homage to Ooni. As a matter of fact, other kings paid homage and sent royalties to alaafin but never to the Ooni. So where's the superiority?

FemiMaduka:


You shouldn't be ignorant of the animosity between the Alaafin and the Ooni. It has been going on for decades. The Ooni has always been accorded the post of 'numero uno' -- even by the colonial masters -- and this has always angered the Alaafin. We aren't discussing the face-value message of the letter. I think you are actually the one not on the same page with the discussion that was stirred up.

Mr Maduka, the current Ooni and Alaafin have since closed ranks. I am sure the Ooni is happy with what the Alaafin is currently doing since he doesn't have the nerves to do the same.

Andhominem:


Mr Maduka, the current Ooni and Alaafin have since closed ranks. I am sure the Ooni is happy with what the Alaafin is currently doing since he doesn't have the nerves to do the same.

You keep putting 'Maduka' in bold form. C'mon, let's not go there. You DO NOT KNOW ME, so quit the attempt at bringing up ethnic shenanigans. It is not smart at all.

I repeat: you seem to be the one off-frequency. What you are contending on is not in contention.

It's a diplomatic statement.

It's Yoruba way of saying if you're for peace, you'll get peace, but if you're for war, we're ready.

Racoon:
What a paradox.A clueless man is always a clueless man.Pls Yoruba, always speak the truth as it.

God bless Fela, OBJ, Ayodele Fayose, FFK, Ayo Adebanjo, Pa Fasoranti, etc."If you stand for the truth, you will always stand alone."-Lucky Dube.

Buckubuck:


A priest is not a king. A king wears a crown, has a staff of office, beads and a council to boot. I don't know where you got the inferiority of Alaafin from. He heads the greatest Empire in Yoruba history so, how come he is inferior. When the Alaafin held sway, they had a non-aggression pact with Ife but did not defer to Ooni in any way. The Oyo kingdom was ruled by the Alaafin without any deference or homage to Ooni. As a matter of fact, other kings paid homage and sent royalties to alaafin but never to the Ooni. So where's the superiority?

You see, you cannot place something on nothing. Oranmiyan, an Ife Prince, founded Oyo on one of his expeditions outside of Ile-Ife and became the first Alaafin there. Ile-Ife was a thriving civilization before Oyo, and it had its own rulership [whether they were considered kings or priests]. We can not have a Prince without a King somewhere; the presence of a son presupposes the existence of a father. It is a straightforward thing, whatever the Alaafin becomes, he is forever a son to the ruler [priest or whatever you term it] of Ile-Ife. However far Oyo goes, it will always have its roots rightly traced back to Ile-Ife.

Sir, before the colonial masters took control, the different kingdoms [founded by sons of Oduduwa, the first Ooni of Ife -- or the first ruler/priest of Ile-Ife, as you have said] in the areas now known as Yorubaland were running independently. In fact, they were almost always feuding. They warred against eachother and plundered eachother, so the stronger always levied some sort of tribute on the weaker as a show of allegiance to the superior, and also to guarantee protection.

Oyo became prominent because of its military superiority. You should know that history is replete with stories of how Empires broke off from subsisting ones. For example, today, the ruling house in Ilorin is Fulani, though Ilorin is a Yoruba town founded by an Oyo general [Afonja] who rebelled against the then Alaafin. Afonja broke relations with Oyo and refused to defer to Oyo. The act of Afonja's treason and non-deference to Oyo -- and even the reality of the Alimi rule over Ilorin -- does not negate the fact that Ilorin traces its root to Oyo.

There was no point of bickering between Oyo and Ile-Ife; it was [is] settled that Ile-Ife was the cradle. The contest between the two stools is a relatively recent phenomenon.

Without Oyo, Ile-Ife would still stand; but would there be Oyo if there was no Ile-Ife? Of course, no!