Uyi Iredia:

why am I thinking of Pythagoras & Heraclitus now

Pastor AIO:

See your dirty mind. Stop thinking about her sexual bits and bring your mind back to the subject of this thread.

Uyi Iredia:

u misinterpreted my post >>> Heraclitus was a male philosopher who made the famous quote

"There is nothing permanent except change."

vescucci:

Er, you're not ranting. I wish there was an excuse for you to open a thread.

Spending review: banks appear to have wriggled off the hook
Government accused of 'going soft' on banks with a charge that would raise no more than £2.5bn from the industry

The day after George Osborne announced swingeing cuts to public services and welfare benefits, the government was expected to announce payback time for Britain's banks – blamed by many for the country's parlous economic state.

But despite unveiling details of a levy on bank balance sheets, the government was yesterday accused of "going soft" on the banks with a charge that would raise no more than £2.5bn from the industry.

The plan for the levy outlined by City minister Mark Hoban yesterday did not appear to match Osborne's promise on Wednesday to extract "the maximum sustainable tax revenues from financial services".

Instead, the plan bears the hallmark of a summer of intense lobbying by the industry, prosperous again after being bailed out by the taxpayer two years ago, and which has succeeded in winning important concessions from the government.

Analysts even predicted[b] banks might pay less tax [/b]than originally expected as the government would need to adjust the levy to ensure it did not raise more than the £2.5bn targeted by the Treasury.

The Treasury spent the summer consulting on a levy that would consist of a charge of 0.04% of a bank's total balance sheet in the first year rising to 0.07% to recoup the targeted £2.5bn by 2013-14.

Welfare cuts cast doubt on Coalition's claim of fairness

George Osborne imposed a further £7bn cut in the welfare budget to blunt the axe falling on frontline services, but insisted that yesterday's government-wide spending review was "fair" as well as "tough".

Only £2.5bn of the welfare savings will come from the better-off, through withdrawing child benefit for top-rate taxpayers, with the rest found from restricting benefits for the poor and vulnerable groups.

The Treasury today slapped a £2.5bn-a-year levy on the banking industry but still left some of the major banks better off as a result of corporation tax cuts being implemented over the next four years.

As the electorate was hit by £81bn of cuts to public spending that will leave the poorest section of society worst off, City minister Mark Hoban issued legislation that made some concessions to the banks after a summer of intense lobbying by the industry. It could even result in some banks ending up paying less tax than before.

Unions were swift to attack the tax, dismissing it as "a pathetically small amount" to demand from the banks, and said the City would be "cracking open the champagne."

Controversial tax boss Dave Hartnett agreed a deal to let Vodafone off a £6bn tax bill, it emerged yesterday.

In what was described as an 'unbelievable cave-in', the HMRC's permanent secretary for tax allowed the phone giant to avoid paying vast amounts of tax on profits racked up by a subsidiary based in a tax haven.
The disclosure comes after it emerged that Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs had undercharged 1.4million Britons a total of £2billion in tax and would be claiming it back.

Last week Mr Hartnett was forced by Chancellor George Osborne to issue a grovelling apology.



Read more: http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/news/article.html?in_article_id=514832&in_page_id=2#ixzz135AgJ8MK

vescucci:

And I forgot to ask, MyJoe. Your theories seem to suggest that there's no such thing like being more intelligent than another and if possible there's no way of measuring it or that one may merely be more intelligent than another in one type i.e. musically etc. Is this correct? Also do you think intelligence increases or decreases? Is it possible?

Uyi Iredia:

What Is Intelligence? >>> Uyi's definition

The ability to gather, retain & evolve information

Uyi Iredia:

u misinterpreted my post >>> Heraclitus was a male philosopher who made the famous quote

"There is nothing permanent except change."

Pastor AIO:

There is absolutely no need to determine that canines are a different class from Equidae in order to tell that Dogs and Wolves are both canine, or rather that they have common traits. At least I don't think so.  When we generalize, yes, that general trait that we discover is distinct from other general traits.  But that fact is not necessary to the process of generalizing. 

On the other hand, language and words are used to distinguish things.  We name and term things to set them apart.  This might be what is causing the confusion.

Pastor AIO:
Demonstrably?  Please demonstrate.

Pastor AIO:
If due to genetics someone's muscles can generate the power to help them jump higher than others is that to be counted for as some form of intelligence?  I can accept that coordination, the ability to aim accurately etc can be considered a form of intelligence.

Pastor AIO:
I've read Daniel Goleman's book and while I liked the basic premise of there being multiple intelligences I think after making that great point the book degenerated to waffle.  It does not comprehensively account for intelligences and it does not even provide a succinct definition of Intelligence itself.  It doesn't even do so for Emotion either.

Pastor AIO:
The ability to acquire and retain information was my definition.  It wasn't a statement of absolute fact.  Like I said earlier it can be arbitrary but once the definition has been made then you must stick within it's parameters. 
What is the difference between acquiring information and making fine distinctions?  What is information?  Are the distinctions not information?  Orange is sweet.  Agbalumo is sweet.  Orange is sweet in a different way from agbalumo.  Is that not information?  If someone doesn't know there is a difference in the sweetness of agbalumo and orange is that person not uninformed. 

Pastor AIO:
The two have different life experiences and I might deem one's life experience as more pertinent to getting me through the jungle alive then the other's.

Pastor AIO:

In other words, Is intelligence quantifiable?

Pastor AIO:
I still think a basic definition is required from MyJoe rather than a list accounting all the different types of intelligence.  What makes my ability to fart loudest not a demonstration of my superior intelligence?  Or my ability to pee the highest up a wall?  What we have so far is an account of various abilities that have been branded types of intelligence but we don't know what makes them intelligence while other abilities are not considered intelligence. 

I am aware that he is only presenting the ideas of Howard Gardner and not his own, but I think Howard Gardner should be able to make basic definition of his terms, after all he is even an Harvard professor.  We shouldn't let him get away with such sloppiness.

MyJoe:

I began by clearly stating, in highlight, a definition of intelligence in my first post. Post # 1. I have also stated it in this post, and perhaps others. That is my working definition of intelligence which is, needless to say, not perfect. And what makes an act intelligent and another unintelligent is amply contained in my posts. You believe Gardner should have provided a definition? Aight.

MyJoe:


Making distinctions is inherent in the very process of making accurate generalisations. I do not see how that fact is not necessary to the process of generalizing since generalizing often simply comes down to grouping, sub-grouping and re-grouping.

Lol. Come to my lab at 19.30 GMT.

Spot on. The point, like I tried to make to nuclearboy, is that you cannot pick a single chip of the whole, and try to use that to define intelligence. (1) Information – or being able to get and use it, (2) vocabulary, (3) arithmetic, (4) puzzles, or (5) memory are just chips of intelligence. That would be narrowing it down too much.

MyJoe:

No, sir. I am not only presenting the idea of Gardner on this thread. Here: I have stated clearly in this thread that the theory of eight intelligences was made up by Gardner. Some social scientists accept them. Others don't. I don't consider either group right or wrong. I accept them based on personal observations I have made. I stated four intelligences in order to make my point. I later stated the other four after vescucci asked for them. What I am presenting here are basically my views of what I find useful and what I don't. I believe that defining intelligence narrowly to include those who can handle big textbooks and maybe do mathematics is not very helpful. That many labelled unintelligent may not actually be unintelligent. That is my point. Thank you.

I began by clearly stating, in highlight, a definition of intelligence in my first post. Post # 1. I have also stated it in this post, and perhaps others. That is my working definition of intelligence which is, needless to say, not perfect. And what makes an act intelligent and another unintelligent is amply contained in my posts. You believe Gardner should have provided a definition? Aight.

Pastor AIO:

Let me make an attempt to explain my point.  Imagine a guy with in a limited world living a limited life experience.  He meets someone one else.  That person offers him a job, he accepts, the person then gives him a slap and puts him to work.  At the end of the week his manager comes to him with his pay check, gives him a slap, and hands him his wages.  He goes home and his wife welcomes him with a kiss, gives him a slap and they head off to beg together.  The next day they go to visit his parents.  When they arrive him mum, his dad, his brother and his sister each give him a slap as they welcome him with open arms. 

He then goes on a walk and meets a stranger.  Instantly he expects a slap from the stranger.  His tendency to expect a slap from every where he goes does not depend on his ability to make distinctions.  He doesn't need to group the world in to those who slap and those who do not.  Everyone slaps as far as he is concerned.  He has generalized every meeting into a slap reception. 

I hope that conveys my point.

Pastor AIO:
I was there.  They said you were stuck in traffic and I waited and waited yet you didn't show up.  Next time I'll charge you per hour for my time.

Pastor AIO:
  Well you can.  As long as you accept that it is arbitrary and the definition you use works to help you make your point or further your argument within the context of a particular issue. 
Just don't expect your definition to be universally accepted within every context by everyone.

Pastor AIO:
Oops, I hope say I no vex you.  I also agree that intelligence is not limited to that tested in IQ tests.  So I agree with your point. 
However I think another bone of contention is that of natural inclination.  I believe that the different intelligences result as a matter of inclination.  Not just inclination but natural inclination.  ie I believe people are born with certain inclinations.  Some are drawn to music and their intelligence will be applied to that and will develop in that direction.  Some others are drawn to understanding their fellow human beings and thus become more intelligent at persuasion and at reading a crowd which is a skill many demagogues, and salesmen even, need to develop.  etc etc.

MyJoe:
[b]
"Intelligence", "inclination", even "skill". There is a line dividing them. [/b]How thick exactly I doubt we will ever fully know. I do have my observations which I compare with what the experts say, though. I have read psychologists who say Gardner's eight intelligences are just nothing but skills! Having been actively interested in this matter for close to two decades,  I have enough reasons of my own to strongly disagree with them, but it's their view and they too make good arguments.

Pastor AIO:

Oh noooooooo!! Mr Olaadegbu please spare us. Don't you have enough of your own threads.

Pastor AIO:

Ooooo . . . I wouldn't say that they dividing line was that fine.  Here are the 3 definitions of the terms as I see them.

Intelligence:  The ability to make distinctions (I would add and to make generalizations). 

Inclination:  A tendency towards.  It can be used to term a bias for one thing over another.

Skill:  An ability of any sort.  So obviously Intelligence is a skill as it is an ability to make fine distinctions.  However it does not apply to other abilities such as the ability to pee very high up a wall. 

Pastor AIO:

We all have intelligence but, as I said before, what marks one man's intelligence apart from another's is the sphere of life to which he applies the intelligence.  Each of us is inclined to one sphere of life more than another. 

MyJoe:


If I understand you correctly, what marks Ade Bakare’s intelligence apart from Barth Nnaji’s is that one decided to apply his intelligence – which is amoebic till given form by inclination - to clothes designing while the other applied his to robotics engineering. In other words, if Michael Dell had as a kid [size=15pt]decided[/size] to apply all his intelligence to golf he could have ended up a Tiger Woods or something in that region.

Pastor AIO:

You would have understood me correctly if rather than say 'decided to apply his intelligence'  you had said 'was inclined to applied his intelligence'.  This inclination that I'm talking about is not something that you decide.  It is a natural inclination.  Ie you were born with it.  Some people from their childhood find themselves drawn naturally and irresistably to sounds.  They grow up to be good at organising sounds which enables them to become good musicians. 

Pastor AIO:
Your friend it seems is simply not drawn to what makes people tick.

MyJoe:

Not drawn to what makes people tick, even if he has a strong desire to be accepted and treated normally? You will recall his “problem” does not end with greeting people. He would place something down when he ought to hang it up, prompting the next person to wonder if he has any sense at all. He would then feel bad at himself for not knowing he should have hung it up. That is why wanting to cut the chase is insufficient to explain it. There is a pattern of being clueless while thinking he was doing things as they should.

MyJoe:


Of course, I’m not rejecting the idea of inclination, even though I don’t think it is of much relevance when we talk of the kind of intelligence my intelligent friend lacks. I believe inclination attunes with intelligence in most people. [b]But that is not always the case since you can find someone who had an inclination for sports, did not do well in it and later found his place in acting. [/b]There are kids with inclination to do sports who can't hold the bat properly after trying for years but they draw excellently. A lady I know had to be begged by her friends to stop being a "writer", (her childhood love) and do something else everyone could see she was really good at as her published works would not stop getting horrible reviews.

MyJoe:

@OLAADEGBU
Someone murdered God?
I don't like to scream "blasphemy", but some of the things you people say!

MyJoe:


Not drawn to what makes people tick, even if he has a strong desire to be accepted and treated normally? You will recall his “problem” does not end with greeting people. He would place something down when he ought to hang it up, prompting the next person to wonder if he has any sense at all. He would then feel bad at himself for not knowing he should have hung it up. That is why wanting to cut the chase is insufficient to explain it. There is a pattern of being clueless while thinking he was doing things as they should.

Of course, I’m not rejecting the idea of inclination, even though I don’t think it is of much relevance when we talk of the kind of intelligence my intelligent friend lacks. I believe inclination attunes with intelligence in most people. But that is not always the case since you can find someone who had an inclination for sports, did not do well in it and later found his place in acting. There are kids with inclination to do sports who can't hold the bat properly after trying for years but they draw excellently. A lady I know had to be begged by her friends to stop being a "writer", (her childhood love) and do something else everyone could see she was really good at as her published works would not stop getting horrible reviews.

Intelligence or inclination? But I guess yours is a way of seeing it.