*sighs*

red herrings. . . . .

whats the topic again people

Ronaldo dropped to Corrinthians at age 32 cos hes nearing retirement and VDS at 36 playing for Fulham was considered to be at his peak?
hehehehehehe.

Red herring? WHy was the above brought into the discussion?

@Tpoic, Cech is way better. VDS at his best was an above average/good keeper. Cech was World class

yo yo an above average keeper won the best goalkeeper in europe twice


when is Seun testing all our IQs

lmao

i agree tho

Cesc is world class and the best as at today

The same award Petr Cech has won twice also despite being more than a decade younger.

If Seun should start using IQ as a requirement to post then Man Utd would lose one fan

yeah!

thats why 2 different footballers can never be compared cos Players peak at different times

Owen shone brightly at a young age but fizzled afterwards while someone like Drogba is a late bloomer

I have said it here that VDS won European Goalie of the year when Cech was active in football (2009) and .   .   .   .  . do i need a microphone



SAF won 2 UCL in long years and Ancellotti won 2 UCL in few years of his reign in football

so according to master football aficionado, Ancellotti is a better tactician than SAF

lol; i said it

ure officially NL doofus of the year!

lmao

God help me how i manage to engage you in an intelligent convo; your brain needs artificial booster

tkb417:

lol; i said it
ure officially NL doofus of the year!

lmao

God help me how i manage to engage you in an intelligent convo; your brain needs artificial booster

Why are you relinquishing your throne? You have had that award on a lockdown for the past few years

thats why 2 different footballers can never be compared cos Players peak at different times
Owen shone brightly at a young age but fizzled afterwards while someone like Drogba is a late bloomer
I have said it here that VDS won European player of the year when Cech was active in football (2009) and . . . . . do i need a microphone
SAF won 2 UCL in long years and Ancellotti won 2 UCL in few years of his reign in football
so according to master football aficionado, Ancellotti is a better tactician than SAF

Thats the problem when newbies try to analyse European football, Read what you typed again does it make sense? Or just print it out and let someone read it out to you.

Seun really needs to take your advice. Quality over quantity pays

dayokanu:

Why are you relinquishing your throne? You have had that award on a lockdown for the past few years

Thats the problem when newbies try to analyse European football, Read what you typed again does it make sense? Or just print it out and let someone read it out to you.

Seun really needs to take your advice. Quality over quantity pays

hahaha

what throne? is it a misnomer to call you the doofus of NL

ask an average football pundit on NL - Do you know the name given to you?

lemme call slimshay, edoyad and co

Ill check me notes if they wont come to bail me out


and as per the seemingly comprehension palaver

na me send you go Ile Ife high school?

if you need help as per translation, seek help at the appropriate places

It doesnt matter that vdS spent a couple of seasons at Fulham. Some of Europe's top gks are in average clubs across Europe:
Akinfeev-CSKA Moscow
Frey-Fiorentina
Handanovic-Udineese
Schawzer-Fulham
and these are gks that are consistently with moves to big clubs. Meanwhile, Fulham were a decent mid-table side in England. They played in UEFA cup. Cech himself played at Rennes, an average Ligue 1 side.
Howler for howler, Cech has committed more:
Czech's defeat to Turkey in Euro '08. Fabio Aurelio's goal in 08/09 Champions league q/f.
Chelsea's defeat to Aston Villa last season and many others

^^ Go and watch Russia 3 Holland 1 in Euro 2008 and see Howlers from VDS

And Last week

Schwarzer, Handanovic, Frey and Akinfeev all come from middle to low football countries.

None of them has ever played for a top club before, VDS played for Ajax and Juve before he was sent to Fulham.

There is nothing decent or mid table about Fulham, While VDS was there they were always missing relegation by 3-4 positions

Fiorentina is a top side in the Italian league and definitely not in the level of Fulham, Same with CSKA

Fulham played in UEFA cup in 2003/2004. They couldnt have finished some few points above the drop zone and played in Europe.
vdS left for Fulham because he fell behind Buffon at Juve. Once a gk becomes 2nd choice, its hard to get a good transfer. Carlo Cudicini is a good example. He was highly rated when he was Chelsea's 1st choice but once he fell behind Cech, it was the end for him. He could only move to a lesser Spurs. The same fate will likely befall Shay Given whose name will still be in the mix when the best gks in Europe are mentioned.

In VDS 4 seasons at Fulham, What were there position?

When Juve had VDS why did they splash 30m on Buffon again? Definitely VDS was considered a Failure in Juventus

Another thing Cudicini is another above average keeper but overhyped in the EPL just like Almunia.

If Cudicini was that good, He should at least be invited for Italy even if na friendly. at 37 still awaiting his first cap that was why Cech came in and usurped Cudicini effortlessly That explains why he is still playing secong fiddle to Heurelho Gomes

StarBoard:

And after all the clangers,he's won two Champion's League titles with different clubs.He must be really bad.
Like someone said earlier,let's wait till Cech is 40 before we make this comparison.

Giovanni Galli and Victor Valdes both won two European cups so I guess they must be really great.
Why should we wait when we already know who the better Goalie Is?

tkb417:

so he only played in Juventus where he dropped clanger after clanger?

hahahaha

he was the best goalie in europe in 2 seasons,
1995 and 2009. In 2009, how old was VDS compared with cech? was Cech suffering from mid life crisis that a 39 year old man would win the best goalie in europe

Nope. He has also dropped howlers playing for his national team. The Juve ones were just more noticeable(that being said, goalies are bound to make a mistake or two over their career span). VDS's age and what not is not the issue being discusssed here. Whether Cech is the better Goalie Is theissue being discussed.

tkb417:


SAF won 2 UCL in long years and Ancellotti won 2 UCL in few years of his reign in football

so according to master football aficionado, Ancellotti is a better tactician than SAF

Well a case can be made for Ancelotti being the superior tactician in the European cup.

medjai:

Fulham played in UEFA cup in 2003/2004. They couldnt have finished some few points above the drop zone and played in Europe.
vdS left for Fulham because he fell behind Buffon at Juve. Once a gk becomes 2nd choice, its hard to get a good transfer. Carlo Cudicini is a good example. He was highly rated when he was Chelsea's 1st choice but once he fell behind Cech, it was the end for him. He could only move to a lesser Spurs. The same fate will likely befall Shay Given whose name will still be in the mix when the best gks in Europe are mentioned.

Wrong. VDS left Juve cuz he was simply not good enough.

dayokanu:

Why do we need to wait till Cech is 40? VDS from age 18-40 was never at any point as good as Cech was in the past 6yrs

VDS peak <<< Cechs peak(Assuming Cech has peaked)

Do we need to wait till Buffon is 40 or Casilass is 40 to know they are better than David Seaman and peter Rufai?

Why do you keep misconstruing issues?
VDS at 18-40 not good?yet he was with Ajax in 1995 when they won the Champions league.What happened then?Was Ajax a fluke team?A team that went God-knows-how-many games undefeated both domestically and abroad?
Cech in the past 6 years?You are apparently forgetting the same Euro 2008 you're vilifying VDS for.At least I remember a certain Turkey vs Czech Republic quarter final.I also remember him being pummeled to death by Ghana in 2006 in Germany.And since the,what has Cech done on the international stage,all within the six years you're talking about?

dayokanu:

Penalty saves in crucial matches? List them

dayokanu:

Any long time follower of European football knows VDS is one of the weakest keepers when it comes to penalties

You know you're not being entirely honest about the above.I won't say more than that.If you honestly believe that VDS has no pedigree in terms of penalties,then there's no point arguing.For one,there is a certain Charity shield game about 2 years ago where VDS made 3 consecutive saves from Chelsea in a shoot-out,the same game Cech played.

Giovanni Galli and Victor Valdes both won two European cups so I guess they must be really great.
Why should we wait when we already know who the better Goalie Is?

im sure ure not a pederast

Those people you mentioned above, were they best goalkeepers in Europe twice?

LOL

If club trophies should be discounted, what about the award that goes to the best goalie in the continent

Cudicini, Valdes, Dudek and other cretins you mentioned were never the best goalkeepers in Europe


use your head

You know you're not being entirely honest about the above.I won't say more than that.If you honestly believe that VDS has no pedigree in terms of penalties,then there's no point arguing.For one,there is a certain Charity shield game about 2 years ago where VDS made 3 consecutive saves from Chelsea in a shoot-out,the same game Cech played.

no point arguing with a donkey

Why do you keep misconstruing issues?
VDS at 18-40 not good?yet he was with Ajax in 1995 when they won the Champions league.What happened then?Was Ajax a fluke team?A team that went God-knows-how-many games undefeated both domestically and abroad?
Cech in the past 6 years?You are apparently forgetting the same Euro 2008 you're vilifying VDS for.At least I remember a certain Turkey vs Czech Republic quarter final.I also remember him being pummeled to death by Ghana in 2006 in Germany.And since the,what has Cech done on the international stage,all within the six years you're talking about?

Ajax won the CL not based on the strenght of their goalkeeper but on the whole team play. Substitute any keeper into that Ajax and they would have won that CL.

I believe it was VDS supporters that first brought Euro 2008 and individual games here and i gave them instances of where VDS stank in games.

You mentioned Ghana vs Czech , Anyone who watched that game would have no doubt that Cech is better than VDS. Though they lost 2-0 but the saves made by Petr that day kept the scoreline respectable

Kudos to you for making your points unlike some people who cant just engage their grey matter when having a football discussion

tkb417:

im sure ure not a pederast

Those people you mentioned above, were they best goalkeepers in Europe twice?

LOL

If club trophies should be discounted, what about the award that goes to the best goalie in the continent

Cudicini, Valdes, Dudek and other cretins you mentioned were never the best goalkeepers in Europe

use your head

I'm sure you do know a thing or two about being a pederast especially with the way you keep nibbling at VDS's d1ck


Talking about awards and trophies,I guess we should also call Vitor Baia a great goalie since he has won the european goalie award once. That puts him level with the likes of Casilas and Buffon(who if I may remind you has never won the European cup).

P:S I am not saying awards should not be used to judge a player's ability however using it as the one and only determinator is wrong. That being said, I don't agree with DK's assesment of Vds being an average Goalie. He is a very good goalie however he is not better than Cech.

In the GK department we have Greats and legends Like Buffon, Kahn, Schmeichel etc

The next level are very good Goalies with Cech, Julio Cesar, Casilass(He would likely become a legend when he retires)

Good goalies like VDS, Barthez, Pagluica etc

dayokanu:

Ajax won the CL not based on the strenght of their goalkeeper but on the whole team play. Substitute any keeper into that Ajax and they would have won that CL.

I'm not so sure of the above.You know as a disciple of football that each team is as good as its weakest link.A good if not great goalkeeper is an essential part of every championship winning team.I think I can point to that as well,especially if the side conceeded only 3 goals in 13 games on their way to the title.That has to say something about the goalkeeper\defence.
Ajax in 95 had Danny Blind and Frank DeBoer in Central defence. Not the greatest defensive combo ever.So I'll have to give some credit to the goalkeeper a bit of credit for that run.

chic2pimp:


Talking about awards and trophies,I guess we should also call Vitor Baia a great goalie since he has won the european goalie award once. That puts him level with the likes of Casilas and Buffon(who if I may remind you has never won the European cup).

P:S I am not saying awards should not be used to judge a player's ability however using it as the one and only determinator is wrong. That being said, I don't agree with DK's assesment of Vds being an average Goalie. He is a very good goalie however he is not better than Cech.

Awards are usually the tie-breaker for arguments like these,even though I must confess,it's not a very accurate yardstick to measure.
I'm tempted to think they really aren't in the same eras.VDS's age and experience (and therefore record of titles-inevitably) might sway the argument in his favour,but Cech is a great goalie.

dayokanu:

In the GK department we have Greats and legends Like Buffon, Kahn, Schmeichel etc

The next level are very good Goalies with Cech, Julio Cesar, Casilass(He would likely become a legend when he retires)

Good goalies like VDS, Barthez, Pagluica etc

Why the ranking?
Subjective list at best.
If I want to be subjective,I'd switch VDS with Cech on the basis that Cech has no CL and VDS has two.
Barthez should be above Cech too.Afterall,he's a world Cup winner.No mean feat.
If I want to be subjective,that is.
In terms of ability.I'd say Schmeicel isn't better than VDS. He too has dropped his share of clangers.How he makes legendary status is news to me.
Is Buffon a better keeper than Angelo Perruzi of Francesco Toldo?Just asking.Is Julio Cesar better than Pagliuca was?Even Oliver Kahn has Andreas Kopke,Balu Aumman and Bodo Ilgner to answer to,in my view, as his superiors.
Remember Jean-Michelle Preud'homme too?Shouldn't he be on your list somewhere?

Talking about awards and trophies,I guess we should also call Vitor Baia a great goalie since he has won the european goalie award once. That puts him level with the likes of Casilas and Buffon(who if I may remind you has never won the European cup).

stupid

when someone is awarded the best goalie by those who regulate footie, then what fcking barometer do you need to make an informed judgement

and you want to make me believe ure capable of reasoning without some aid?

P:S I am not saying awards should not be used to judge a player's ability however using it as the one and only determinator is wrong. That being said, I don't agree with DK's assesment of Vds being an average Goalie. He is a very good goalie however he is not better than Cec

h.

some of you were born to argue like rabid mongrels hence sometimes you forget why ure in the argument

i have stated here Cech is a better goalie as we are but i will not discount VDS's achievement between the sticks

He is an outstanding goalie

If I want to be subjective,I'd switch VDS with Cech on the basis that Cech has no CL and VDS has two.Barthez should be above Cech too.Afterall,he's a world Cup winner.No mean feat.
If I want to be subjective,that is.

CL and world are not in recognition of individual achievements, they are team work. Would you say Marcos of Brazil is better than Kahn because Marcos won the World cup? or that Kleberson is better than Ballack in that same world cup.

Or that Vitor Bahia and Valdez are better than Buffon and Cech?

In terms of ability.I'd say Schmeicel isn't better than VDS. He too has dropped his share of clangers.How he makes legendary status is news to me.

VDS cant touch Schmeichels gloves even Faggotson said that much. VDS was his best keeper after Schmeichel

Is Buffon a better keeper than Angelo Perruzi of Francesco Toldo?Just asking.

Yes Buffon is the best Italian GK since Zoff. Toldo only played Euro 2000 because Buffon was injured. Way better than Perruzi, I dont remember perruzi being a regular for the Italian team, After Zenga, Pagluica held the number 1 shirt .

Is Julio Cesar better than Pagliuca was?

Julio Cesar I think is better than Pagluica.

Even Oliver Kahn has Andreas Kopke,Balu Aumman and Bodo Ilgner to answer to,in my view, as his superiors.

Thats a huge Joke. Kahn is the best German keeper after Sepp Meier. He is still the only keeper in recent times to be awarded Best player of a tournament.

Kahn, Schmeichel and Buffon have won the IFFHS award multiple times

Look at the link and tell us how many times VDS name appeared there

http://www.rsssf.com/miscellaneous/iffhs-gkoy.html

The IFFHS World's Best Goalkeeper is a football award given annually since 1987 to the most outstanding goalkeeper as voted by the International Federation of Football History & Statistics (IFFHS). In 2006, the votes were cast by IFFHS's editorial staff as well as experts from 89 countries spanning six different continents.

Remember Jean-Michelle Preud'homme too?Shouldn't he be on your list somewhere?

Remember my list is not exhaustive but I remember Preud homme exploits at US 94, But personally I would still think Jean Pfaff would rank ahead of him in Belgiums best goalies

tkb417:

silly
when someone is awarded the best goalie by those who regulate footie, then what fcking barometer do you need to make an informed judgement
and you want to make me believe ure capable of reasoning without some aid?

As long as those awards are not the only barometer you use to judge a player(this reads true in your pitful case), then that's fine. Those awards can be misleading.

tkb417:

some of you were born to argue like rabid mongrels hence sometimes you forget why ure in the argument
i have stated here Cech is a better goalie as we are but i will not discount VDS's achievement between the sticks
He is an outstanding goalie

. . . . And that is the only thing of note you've said thus far.

StarBoard:

Awards are usually the tie-breaker for arguments like these,even though I must confess,it's not a very accurate yardstick to measure.
I'm tempted to think they really aren't in the same eras.VDS's age and experience (and therefore record of titles-inevitably) might sway the argument in his favour,but Cech is a great goalie.

I actually don't think it would. Me thinks when all is said and done, people would view Cech as the better Goalie.

Awards can be misleading? Yeah ure right!

I'd rather be misled by UEFA than read your dumb posts

@dayokanu,
Me still thinks Kahn wasn''t as good as Kopke.He was only fortunate to be in a German team that was the weakest in a long time (2002).
Kahn couldn't get into the German side till Kopke retired.

StarBoard:

@dayokanu,
Me still thinks Kahn wasn''t as good as Kopke.He was only fortunate to be in a German team that was the weakest in a long time (2002).
Kahn couldn't get into the German side till Kopke retired.

i dont think so

Oliver Khan to me is one of the greatest keepers that came out of europe

Andreas Kopke too was a solid keeper. I think The Germans just like the Italians really provided many world class goalies unlike a country like England where the best that came cannot even be compared to 3rd rates in some countries

Ok if you say so. . .
I just think Kopke was better.Saw him Euro 96. . .He was phenomenal.

IFFHS' World's Best Goalkeeper of the Year

Since 1987 the International Federation of Football History & Statistics
(IFFHS) chooses the World's Best Goalkeeper; the election is for the calendar
year.

IFFHS has also elected the Goalkeeper of the Century for every continent and
worldwide.

List of winners
YEAR WINNER COUNTRY CLUB

1987 Jean-Marie PFAFF Belgium Bayern München (Ger)
1988 Rinat DASAEV Soviet Union Spartak Moskva (USSR)
1989 Walter ZENGA Italy Inter Milan (Ita)
1990 Walter ZENGA Italy Inter Milan (Ita)
1991 Walter ZENGA Italy Inter Milan (Ita)
1992 Peter SCHMEICHEL Denmark Manchester United (Eng)
1993 Peter SCHMEICHEL Denmark Manchester United (Eng)
1994 Michel PREUD'HOMME Belgium K.V. Mechelen (Bel) / Benfica (Por)
1995 José Luis CHILAVERT Paraguay Vélez Sarsfield (Arg)
1996 Andreas KÖPKE Germany Eintracht Frankfurt (Ger) / Marseille (Fra)
1997 José Luis CHILAVERT Paraguay Vélez Sarsfield (Arg)
1998 José Luis CHILAVERT Paraguay Vélez Sarsfield (Arg)
1999 Oliver KAHN Germany Bayern München (Ger)
2000 Fabien BARTHEZ France AS Monaco (Fra) / Manchester United (Eng)
2001 Oliver KAHN Germany Bayern München (Ger)
2002 Oliver KAHN Germany Bayern München (Ger)
2003 Gianluigi BUFFON Italy Juventus (Ita)
2004 Gianluigi BUFFON Italy Juventus (Ita)
2005 Petr CECH Czech Republic Chelsea (Eng)
2006 Gianluigi BUFFON Italy Juventus (Ita)
2007 Gianluigi BUFFON Italy Juventus (Ita)
2008 Iker CASILLAS Spain Real Madrid (Spa)
2009 Iker CASILLAS Spain Real Madrid (Spa)

Starboard How many times did VDS name appear in that list?

Van der sar was good , Cech is the best and world class

Some topics are not even up for debate. . . .Cech is better than VDS.

As dk pointed out, vds has never, at any point in his career, been a world class goalie. In contrast, Cech was arguably the best gk in the world between

2004-06. So what's the basis for this comparison