nuclearboy:

If God Father = God Son = God Holy Spirit, how can the Holy Spirit be "banned" or "absent" from Heaven?

But I think what Jo was trying to say here was that the sphere of influence of the HS is directed toward here rather than there. Still wrong because God (HS) is not limited anyplace but it was likely just an allegory and I think he can be forgiven for that.

Meanwhile, me too would like to see Chukwudi44 face Image123's poser.

This Image123 is rapidly becoming NL's mobile policeman abi na EFCC. 

   @nuclearboy,
  My good friend nuclear boy again, i thought you said you are a born again Christian?. I am supprized that you don't know who the holy Spirit is and it seems that you never had any personal encounter with Him?. Please i mean no offence. Our problem especially in this forum is that we claim to know what we don't know. As a result, instead of seeking to know we end up more in ignorance. Moreover when people have a mind set on an issue, it becomes very hard to explain the truth to the person. The explanation  Joeagbaje gave to Chukwudi is the real Biblical truth which would have ended the thread if members were sincere to know the Bible truth. Any other thing Joe is saying is just that he has time to spare in offering more explanation.

chukwudi44:

What makes a person a sound christian? You ve only shown you have know knwlege about how the books of the bible were decided

Lol, you've just said it yourself. Even if I don't know how they were 'decided', since they have been 'decided' as you pointed out, why bring in others?

Pastor Joe, you have not replied me.

Jo is right and wrong.

He is right to state that the Holy Spirit is on earth, but he is also everywhere, not just the earth. He is in the sun, the planets etc. However, Jo goes further to misinterpret John 14

John 14:16-17
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17[ Even] the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Jo did not really understand this passage. Christ meant that someone will come physically as he came , that was why he says A-N=O-T-H-E-R er, Christ being a first comforter. The person to come is of course God the Father, who is a Spirit as confirmed by Christ in John 4:25 . When he comes, the world would not know him, only his people will know him, the chosen ones. He will have have a duality of existence. Living in man and dwelling with man. It is not the same as the gift of the Holy Spirit which was given to empower them for their ministry. many 'Christians' are confused about this and vainly try to relate the two. The manifestation of the comforter did not come in the lifetime of the disciples. What manifested was the gift of the comforter.

To understand further read all the way to John chapter 16, where the tasks to be performed by the comforter are clearly stated. So, the comforter will be dwelling with man to be seen physically as Christ was seen. If he is not seen how will he carry out all the functions stated in 16?

Lol, you've just said it yourself. Even if I don't know how they were 'decided', since they have been 'decided' as you pointed out, why bring in others?

Which others did I bring in?Did I not use the adjective non-canonical to describe the books of Enoch and 2 Esdras.

If you are refering to Tobit ,then I ve no apologies since tobit is in the bible and was among the set of books canonised at the synod of hippo in 393 CE.

MIND YOU THAT A BOOK WAS NOT CANONISED DOES NOT MEAN IT IS NOT SCRIPTURE.THE BOOK OF ENOCH,EVEN THOUFGH IT WAS NOT CANONISED WAS QUOTED BY THE APOSTLE JUDE.

@PASTOR JOE,

am still waiting for the meaning of the word[i] ominipresent[/i]

The explanation Joeagbaje gave to Chukwudi is the real Biblical truth

Which stupid biblical truth is that ?That God is not ominipresent where in the bible did you find that?

This is the thread that has won the title of ''heresy abode'' Pastor Jo claims that the existence of the holy spirit is not everywhere, and Olaadegbu claims that the angels talked about in the book of revealation was the holy spirit.Pastor Jo concluded the entire heresy that the power of Christ as God came after the holy spirit came upon him.This is heresy of the highest degree! Pls God,forgive Jo cos he spoke without the inspiration of the holy spirit,in Jesus name (Amen).

@joagbaje, chukudi44, and all other contributors to this thread (and the one that initiated it)

christianity is 2000 years old, and most  christians today have no idea of church history. We only depend on what our pastors have told us. Most people don't even know how the Bible came about ( i assure you some people think it dropped from heaven). Arguments of this nature will continue forever.

That's exactly what the devil wants, and he is achieving it. Rather than us dealing with the fundamental christian issues  - to live the true christian life and expose what is clearly evil, we come to forums as this (and in public) to showcase our stupidity and ineptitude on the teachings of Christ.

The Pentecostal always wants to show that his pastor knows everything, and justifies all that he does and teaches with the Bible (including putting on jerry curls and living lavishly on the tithes of HIS Church member) while the Catholic always wants to sink it down the throat of non-catholics that the Catholic Church is the only Church recognized by Christ and every body must accept Her teaching regardless of the person's background. in the long run, we do little good for the kingdom of God, and sin continues to thrive even in our very midst, and the devil keeps laughing at us all.

For instance, how does chukwudi expect a person who has been taught by Protestants (which simple means to protest catholic teachings) all his life to understand the communion of the saints and intercession of Mary, purgatory, images, the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist etc.? Is he sure he would believe it if he were born Protestant? How does Joagbaje expect a deep rooted Catholic (like myself) to accept teachings that stemmed just within the last 400 years (and even less than 10 years as the case my be), of which many Pentecostals/Protestants have contradicted themselves in what seems to be a "worldwide pentecostal confusion", and abandon teachings that came to us from  Church Fathers like Augustine and Jerome even before the Bible was assembled in its present form? Its not going to work.

So let’s learn to stop all these church bashing and focus on the real issues like sexual immorality in the church, siphoning of church members money in the name of seed sowing for never ending projects, neglect of the poor, worldliness,  and complete departure from emphasis on the afterlife. I suppose if we focus on these, nobody would need to be told if he is in the right or wrong place for the true Spirit of God (wether he is in Heaven or sent on exile to earh) would lead you into all truths.

But that the devil may show that he is in control of many, we would continue to waste our time arguing on issues that have proved to be irresolvable, while he continues his job of leading millions to Hell on a daily basis.

Hi Joe,

Hp u enjoyed the IPPC?

Ba-kelegebahaya, Glory!

@ Topic,

While I agree with you that the Holy Spirit is manifested in His church on the earth today, I do not agree that He is not in heaven.

After all, He is omnipresent. Even though His manifested presence is not everywhere, he is everywhere. He may not be operating in heaven as a separate entity from Jesus, but I believe He is the power that runs things there and all around the world.

Remember the bible says that God dwells in the light which no man can approach.
1 Tim. 6:16
    Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

What (or rather who) is that light?

Exodus 24:16-17
    And the glory of the Lord abode upon mount Sinai, and the cloud covered it six days: and the seventh day he called unto Moses out of the midst of the cloud. [17] And the sight of the glory of the Lord was like devouring fire on the top of the mount in the eyes of the children of Israel.

Ezekiel 10:4
    Then the glory of the Lord went up from the cherub, and stood over the threshold of the house; and the house was filled with the cloud, and the court was full of the brightness of the Lord's glory.



The bible refers to the Holy Spirit as the glory of the father.

Romans 6:4
    Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.


God by His Spirit garnished the heavens

Job 26:13
    By his spirit he hath garnished the heavens; his hand hath formed the crooked serpent.


He is the Spirit that proceeds from the father. Please note the present continuous tense in the verse below:
John 15:26
    But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which [b]proceedeth from the Father[/b], he shall testify of me:

He proceeded from the father on the day of Pentecost (the bible never said that He is no longer present in heaven- a least I know that Jesus was and is still filled with the Spirit without measure) and proceeds from us, the church today to cause changes in the lives of men and women all around the world (this does not mean that He has stopped proceeding from the father).

I agree that He is the power resident in the church today which is currently restraining the Antichrist and his outburst of evil upon the earth, Yet when the church is taken away, the Holy spirit does not leave the earth even though his manifested present may (I am even careful to say this because I know about the 2 witnesses who shall minister with great power in those days).

He will be present to see to it that this age comes to an end according to the Word of the Lord.


Just my own contribution brother. Keep being a blessing  to nairaland. I love you

Boy I'm full of da Holy Ghost!

asadokie:

@joagbaje, chukudi44, and all other contributors to this thread (and the one that initiated it)

christianity is 2000 years old, and most christians today have no idea of church history. We only depend on what our pastors have told us. Most people don't even know how the Bible came about ( i assure you some people think it dropped from heaven). Arguments of this nature will continue forever.

That's exactly what the devil wants, and he is achieving it. Rather than us dealing with the fundamental christian issues - to live the true christian life and expose what is clearly evil, we come to forums as this (and in public) to showcase our stupidity and ineptitude on the teachings of Christ.

The Pentecostal always wants to show that his pastor knows everything, and justifies all that he does and teaches with the Bible (including putting on jerry curls and living lavishly on the tithes of HIS Church member) while the Catholic always wants to sink it down the throat of non-catholics that the Catholic Church is the only Church recognized by Christ and every body must accept Her teaching regardless of the person's background. in the long run, we do little good for the kingdom of God, and sin continues to thrive even in our very midst, and the devil keeps laughing at us all.

For instance, how does chukwudi expect a person who has been taught by Protestants (which simple means to protest catholic teachings) all his life to understand the communion of the saints and intercession of Mary, purgatory, images, the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist etc.? Is he sure he would believe it if he were born Protestant? How does Joagbaje expect a deep rooted Catholic (like myself) to accept teachings that stemmed just within the last 400 years (and even less than 10 years as the case my be), of which many Pentecostals/Protestants have contradicted themselves in what seems to be a "worldwide pentecostal confusion", and abandon teachings that came to us from Church Fathers like Augustine and Jerome even before the Bible was assembled in its present form? Its not going to work.

So let’s learn to stop all these church bashing and focus on the real issues like sexual immorality in the church, siphoning of church members money in the name of seed sowing for never ending projects, neglect of the poor, worldliness, and complete departure from emphasis on the afterlife. I suppose if we focus on these, nobody would need to be told if he is in the right or wrong place for the true Spirit of God (wether he is in Heaven or sent on exile to earh) would lead you into all truths.

But that the devil may show that he is in control of many, we would continue to waste our time arguing on issues that have proved to be irresolvable, while he continues his job of leading millions to Hell on a daily basis.

May God in heaven continue to bless you with wisdom and understanding.

@ Donnie ,
Thanks for the contribution. I was manipulated into this by chukwudi. As I explained earlier. That's not what I meant.

The holy spirit is in heaven, in space, in the water, in the forest . He is everywhere .

There are different kinds of presence of God and of the holy spirit. Such as  OMNIPRESENCE, INDWELLING PRESENCE, MANIFESTED PRESENCE.ETC.

The omni presence of the holyghost . Cannot be denied . He is everywhere.

Psalms 139:7-8
7 Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence? 
8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou[ art] there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou[ art there]. 


I was in another thread  with chukwudi . He was justifying  praying to holy Mary and other saints and asking the to pray for us as a Catholic , equating it with pastors on earth praying for people. I said we don't need to ask Mary to pray for us and other saints,  We are the one that have the holyspirit in us to pray with. They don't need the power of the spirit in heaven.

  We don't pray to pastors. Like you pray to Mary. The dead saints has no dealings with living men. The saints on earth can pray for one another because of the anointing of the holyghost, but the saints in heaven don't have the holyghost with them. They only wait and watch us.

Instead of asking me for explanation, he created this new thread . The omnipresence of the God and the holyspirit is everywhere. But the indwelling presence is not everywhere . Only in believers . The manifested presence is not everywhere either. He manifest through the church . He manifest by the word and he manifest through the name of Jesus. His actions really have always been associated with earth.he manifest God on the earth. But he fills everywhere.

I never denied the omnipresence of the holyghost at any time. He is known by action. And his action is here on earth right now in the church. This is what I said earlier.

The holy spirit house address presently is inside of me.even though he has omnipotence. He answers to the name of Jesus. Where ever two or three shall gather in his name.

@ Donnie ,
Thanks for the contribution. I was manipulated into this by chukwudi. As I explained earlier. That's not what I meant.

The holy spirit is in heaven, in space, in the water, in the forest . He is everywhere

I see pastor agbaje has done a 360 u-turn on what he said here

[

b]The holyspirit is not in heaven.[/b] But in us on the earth. Check the scriptures.

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-524364.32.html

There are different kinds of presence of God and of the holy spirit. Such as OMNIPRESENCE, INDWELLING PRESENCE, MANIFESTED PRESENCE.ETC

Pastor could you please expatiate on this

They don't need the power of the spirit in heaven.

The omnipresence of the God and the holyspirit is everywhere. But the indwelling presence is not everywhere . Only in believers . The manifested presence is not everywhere either. He manifest through the church . He manifest by the word and he manifest through the name of Jesus. His actions really have always been associated with earth.he manifest God on the earth.

Could you please provide any biblical backing for this

Could you please provide any biblical backing for this






[quote][/quote] Jo has now realized the meaning of the word Omnipresence.Maybe I can now help a little.The indwelling pressence of the holy spirit is only in believers.If you need biblical support,then 1 corinthians 6vs19 can help.''Do you not know that your body is the temple of the holy spirit,who is in you,whom you have received from God?you are not your own.'' Moreover,the holy spirit manifests in the church.I hope that you remembers the story when Ananias and Sapphira lied in the church.Peter said unto them,''how is it that Satan has filled your heart and you have lied against the holy spirit''.The fact that it also manifests through the name of Christ and through the word of God is already known by kids. The manifested presence is not everywhere cos it can neither manifest in an unrighteous gathering nor through any other name except that of Christ.They also doesn't need the power of the holy spirit in heaven.This spirit helps believers to see the manifestation of Gods power here on earth.God is in heaven and the manifestation of his power is already there,so what do they need the holy spirit for?

@chukwudi

chukwudi44:

I see pastor agbaje has done a 360 u-turn on what he said here

I didn't make any 360 u turn. You should have asked for my explanation. Than trying to ridicule me. I've always said the holyspirit is omnipresent. He is not absent in heaven. But saints in heaven don't need the anointing of the spirit over there. The residence of the holy spirit is in the church on the earth now. He is not strolling arround. He is the power in the church. He works through us. When I said he is Not in heaven , i'm not referring to the OMNIPRESENCE, but the MANIFESTED PRESENCE through the saints.in heaven based on our discussion, 

There are different kinds of presence of God and of the holy spirit. Such as  OMNIPRESENCE, INDWELLING PRESENCE, MANIFESTED PRESENCE.ETC

Pastor could you please expatiate on this

Take Jesus for example. He said wherever two or three are gathererd he is there, 

Matthew 18:20
20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them. 

That's a manifested presence. But the omni presence was there before they ever gather. When we go to church we say we go to the presence of God. But his omnipresence is inside our toilets also. But the manifested presence is in our corporate gathering and when we use the name of Jesus. Or when we invoke his power in worship . His presence will manifest.

The indwelling presence is not everywhere. He only dwell in Christians . The disciples of christ were not able to receive the indwelling presence until christ died even though the omni presence was dwelling arround them but he could not dwell in them 

John 14:17
17[ Even] the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. 

saints in heaven don't need the anointing of the spirit over there.

Joagbaje, you don come again. SOURCE pls

Joagbaje, you don come again. SOURCE pls

\Abeg help me ask am